Root Access

Burgi

17:01

that question on audio formats should be closed, its opinion based

Bob

@JourneymanGeek That reminds me of a comment I forgot to make yesterday :P

Journeyman Geek

lol

Bob

@Burgi ...my response to that when it was last mentioned in chat is that it has an objective answer and is thus answerable

Ignoring the title, anyway :\

Burgi

hmm....

Bob

If he were comparing lossy codecs, sure, that's probably subjective (though @JourneymanGeek's answer would apply even better there).

But...

> I've been to every website, and I've heard again and again that FLAC (Free Lossless Audio Codec) has the best sound quality AND it compresses the file. But I'm wondering if there is a format with better sound quality.

Lossless vs lossless/uncompressed => answer: they're absolutely identical by definition

there's no subjectiveness there

there's no opinion there

"Is there better than lossesss [given the same source data]?" "No. <explanation why>"

Journeyman Geek

17:05

yesterday, by Journeyman Geek

http://superuser.com/questions/1177950/which-audio-format-truly-has-the-best-sou‌nd-quality ._.

@Burgi ^

Burgi

nuke it!!! ;)

btw i'm at risk of getting another flag ban. i have 11 outstanding and the oldest is two weeks old

Bob

allquixotic

@JourneymanGeek So a meta post with some arbitrary number of upvotes determined policy in that case, but in the hackintosh case, the community's upvote arbitrary decision isn't binding because mods say no? :P

that's one thing that's always bothered me about SE - whenever community consensus is used as a justification for a "policy", it's extremely arbitrary and formless, exactly how that consensus was established - for instance, is a meta Q sufficient for establishing community consensus? if so, how? how many upvotes on an answer determines consensus? does it have to be a number relative to other, competing viewpoints? what's the timeframe before it's consensus -- 24 hours? a week? a year?

and would a "revisiting X" post be able to reverse the original consensus? if so, how much support would it need to do so?

it feels like the US Senate except with the official (and only) rules of the Senate proceedings being, "Oh, you know...."

Ben N

This is an admittedly thorny problem

36

A: How is consensus determined on Meta sites?

As Sam I am notes, it's a judgement call... Meta sites are a perversion of the Stack Exchange model, discussion sites implemented using a Q&A engine. This works surprisingly well, if you keep the limitations of both in mind at all times: Voting isn't limited - you can post an opinion and down...

Bob

@BenN "The existence of and following of consensus is determined by consensus."

3

"The definition of recursive is recursive."

Burgi

17:27

do you think this SLA means they owe us money?

DavidPostill

@Burgi Well the 1st paragraph has some nice get out clauses ...

Burgi

i was wondering that

DavidPostill

"Conditions beyond our reasonable control" that's the same as the cheap airlines use to get out of paying ...

Bob

@DavidPostill "or we don't feel like it"

good lord, 110 outages?

DavidPostill

You could start by asking for an explanation of all those 110 outages

bwDraco

17:32

@Burgi Just ask; they should give you credit on your account.

Burgi

> We apologize for the connectivity issue you've been experiencing, we had an issue with the cluster handling requests for all 'S' sites on the cloud. It was recently resolved.

CaffeineAddiction

its according to THEIR network management monitoring

if they admitted to it then yes

DavidPostill

@Burgi That sounds like an admission it is their fault. Ask for the money.

Burgi

request made

lets see how that goes

brb, need to pay a deposit for a flat

w00t

deposit sent

i'm closer to getting a flat!!!!!

That Brazilian Guy

18:24

> I HATE BANKS I HATE BANKS I HATE BANKS I HATE BANKS I HATE BANKS I HATE BANKS I HATE BANKS I HATE BANKS I HATE BANKS I HATE BANKS I HATE BANKS I HATE BANKS I HATE BANKS I HATE BANKS I HATE BANKS I HATE BANKS I HATE BANKS I HATE BANKS I HATE BANKS I HATE BANKS I HATE BANKS I HATE BANKS I HATE BANKS I HATE BANKS I HATE BANKS I HATE BANKS I HATE BANKS I HATE BANKS I HATE BANKS I HATE BANKS I HATE BANKS I HATE BANKS I HATE BANKS I HATE BANKS I HATE BANKS I HATE BANKS I HATE BANKS I HATE BANKS I HATE BANKS I HATE BANKS I HATE BANKS I HATE BANKS I HATE BANKS I HATE BANKS I HATE BANKS

Also, I hate money. Specially, needing money, and in particular, needing to work for money.

Burgi

@ThatBrazilianGuy i'm getting the feeling you dislike banks

That Brazilian Guy

@Burgi What, you lived in a trailer until now?

@Burgi What gave you this idea?

Burgi

@ThatBrazilianGuy parents house

@ThatBrazilianGuy lucky guess

That Brazilian Guy

@Burgi Ouch. I know how it feels. At least it's not Italian parents, Jewish parents or South American parents.

I had a much terrifying thought now. Being the single kid ind a south-american jewish house of italian descent.

DavidPostill

@ThatBrazilianGuy How do you know? AFAIK @Burgi has never said what race/nationality his parents are ...

That Brazilian Guy

18:33

@DavidPostill lucky guess.

djsmiley2k

19:47

o/

That Brazilian Guy

\o/

/ \

djsmiley2k

\o

That Brazilian Guy

|o|

djsmiley2k

o\

That Brazilian Guy

\o\

Ben N

19:50

/o/

djsmiley2k

`_¬

That Brazilian Guy

( ˙Θ˙(˙Θ˙)˙Θ˙ )

Burgi

20:02

@DavidPostill heh

!!help

ChatBot John Cavil

@Burgi Information on interacting with me can be found at this page

noitsbecky

20:19

!!caaat

ChatBot John Cavil

noitsbecky

@ThatBrazilianGuy I love banks I love banks I love banks I love banks I love banks

Burgi

!!flagged

ChatBot John Cavil

Burgi

:D

noitsbecky

20:21

@Burgi If you have to, then they're probably not going to honour it

Burgi

i can't figure out how to get the bot to send it as a tell

noitsbecky

!!s/bank/flag/

ChatBot John Cavil

@noitsbecky @ThatBrazilianGuy I love flags I love banks I love banks I love banks I love banks (source)

bwDraco

Oops

ChatBot John Cavil

bwDraco

20:22

!!s/bank/flag/g 35413302

ChatBot John Cavil

@bwDraco @ThatBrazilianGuy I love flags I love flags I love flags I love flags I love flags (source)

Burgi

...

well thats nice

noitsbecky

Cats

Ben N

:35413453 That's probably a little much

bwDraco

@noitsbecky, you were issuing commands to the chatbot to cause it to generate offensive messages, then deleted your commands to cover your tracks.

SevenSidedDie

20:30

@noitsbecky Don't do that. Have a day off.

bwDraco

Remember everyone, the chatbot is for the benefit of the Root Access community. Please don't abuse it to generate offensive mesages.

Burgi

!!flagged

Ben N

Bot got suspended, hang on

Burgi

hmm...

well that went well

SevenSidedDie

@BenN Sorry, my bad.

Ben N

20:33

Poof

!!status

bwDraco

...we may need @allq's attention to fix this.

Ben N

Oh wait, suspending it breaks it until it's rebooted :/

Burgi

i make one jokey command and the bot gets kicked

bwDraco

@Burgi It wasn't your fault. @noitsbecky has been suspended for 24 hours.

Burgi

this is why cylons are bad news people!

SevenSidedDie

20:35

@noitsbecky And on that note, considering the existing notes on your chat account, reconsider how you use chat or start expecting increasingly long suspensions.

Burgi

poor JMG... he goes to bed and shenanigans happen

3

allquixotic

@SevenSidedDie sigh The messages he made the bot say were indeed silly, but did it really merit a heavy handed moderation? The deleted messages (which I can see) are a far cry from what most here would consider seriously offensive to that degree (i.e., warranting a suspension). Deleting the messages? Sure. Suspension? Sheesh.

bwDraco

@allquixotic Okay. I was the one who raised the flag. However, it was pretty clear that @noitsbecky wsa intentionally trolling. He/she was deleting the commands to hide it.

SevenSidedDie

@allquixotic If you have access to their suspension history and think that the offense + user history merits a different approach, please do let us know in the moderator-only chatroom. :)

bwDraco

Besides, the user has a history of trolling.

SevenSidedDie

20:42

@allquixotic My apologies for knocking the bot over though, that was careless of me.

That Brazilian Guy

@SevenSidedDie @noitsbecky is ~~our pet troll~~ sometimes annoying, but mostly harmless ~~except to themselves~~.

bwDraco

TBH, I genuinely felt offended by those messages. It's NSFW, and noitsbecky was taunting me for addressing him/her with the chatbot earlier.

21 mins ago, by bwDraco

!!s/bank/flag/g 35413302

allquixotic

!!help

prolly have to run it again

bwDraco

noitsbecky saw that the chatbot message was generated by my command and proceeded to troll me. That's what prompted the flag.

Burgi

@bwDraco arnoldzwicky.s3.amazonaws.com/BlueBooby2.jpg

bwDraco

20:45

lol

Burgi

what a lovely pair

That Brazilian Guy

@Burgi Who doesn't love those?

Burgi

i know!

bwDraco

:P

djsmiley2k

i'm presuming the flagged messages were actually removed?

allquixotic

20:53

~~looks like Cavil is still suspended; oh well, I'll just shut down the container again and might accidentally forget to bring it up for 6 months or longer or indefinitely~~ it would be awesome if I'd log into the right container

Burgi

@djsmiley2k it was about female squishy bits

SevenSidedDie

@ThatBrazilianGuy As mods and room owners we are also charged with accounting for the chilling effect such behaviour can have on room participation. Judging these things only by what those who speak up think is a self-selection bias error that the new theory of chat moderation mostly rejects. Also yeah, being a regular troll does eventually earn sanctions. Chat isn't a free-for-all.

bwDraco

> Chat isn't a free-for-all.

You hit it right on the nail.

That Brazilian Guy

@SevenSidedDie Well, I see your point, but considering the culture of this specific chatroom, and its regulars, the user has been, at worst, mildly annoying.

Burgi

my phone has stopped loading my emails

SevenSidedDie

20:58

@ThatBrazilianGuy Remember that room culture is defined as topic and tolerance for wandering off topic, local-in jokes, and the like. It no longer includes having a different standard of how to apply Be Nice from the rest of the chat or Q&A network.

allquixotic

@SevenSidedDie I don't think he was disagreeing with the flag or the removal of the messages, just that he doesn't think folks here are necessarily offended by him to the point that we'd want him suspended or eventually banned (did I get that right, @ThatBrazilianGuy ?) -- otherwise the "chilling effect" could work in reverse to censor a user we don't want gone

That Brazilian Guy

@allquixotic Yeah, that's pretty much exactyl what I meant. Spot on.

bwDraco

I honestly did not expect a suspension. Kick-mute, sure.

SevenSidedDie

@allquixotic People here don't have to be offended. It just has to violate Be Nice, which it did. Aside from it being deliberately trolling another user, which isn't okay.

allquixotic

Also, how do you presume to understand the opinions or desires or inputs of someone who doesn't speak up? The folks who chat actively in the room will gladly give you their opinion, but if folks lurk and consider themselves part of the chat but don't want to speak up, how can you or anyone assume any facts about what they believe? Why try to accommodate an unspoken voice? If they speak up, give their opinion merit.

Burgi

20:59

welp there we go...

200 emails downloading...

SevenSidedDie

If noitsbecky wants to not be gone, they have to improve their behaviour. If others want noitsbecky to not be gone, they might consider helping them improve their behaviour.

Paul Vargas

Hello to all!

djsmiley2k

@Burgi woah ok.

SevenSidedDie

@allquixotic We don't have to. That's why we're using Be Nice as the yardstick now. That's already designed to account for chilling effects. Mods' job is just application now.

bwDraco

If I were a mod, I probably would have hit the kick-mute button. noitsbecky has been well-behaved lately and I'm honestly not quite sure a suspension is warranted.

If the behavior continued, then I'd hit suspend.

Paul Vargas

21:01

@bwDraco You could be... but you aren't.

Burgi

@bwDraco were you not a mod/RO at one point in the past?

bwDraco

@Burgi I was never an RO for Root Access.

Burgi

you got me suspended when i posted a duke nukem screenshot

allquixotic

@SevenSidedDie Well, I've said my peace on it; I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree. This very thing, I think, is what will end up leading to the mass migration of many (dare I say, most?) active rooms off of chat.SO/chat.SE, following in the footsteps of The Comms Room. (And we're usually a very, very well-behaved room by most standards, but this is getting to be too much lately.)

SevenSidedDie

@allquixotic Yeah, that's a thing that might happen. If running afoul of Be Nice is the reason though, that's almost certainly [status-by-design]. *shrug* The alternative is adhering to it, which isn't that high a bar to clear.

bwDraco

21:06

Got stuff to do. There's not much else for me to say here.

See you folks in a bit.

allquixotic

Heh. Problem is, the "Hacker Community at large" honestly does have serious problems with "Be Nice" interpreted in the way that it seems to be enforced around here. I don't even consider myself to be one of them, as I intentionally avoid that stuff, but I'm not going to watch members of a community I identify with be cast out for jokes or whatever that we as a community don't find objectionable (even if I don't participate in them). You might say "well the culture's bad", >>

>> but I'd rather view it as "the culture's not fit for general consumption" and is therefore not necessarily the best thing to be posting on a public, all-inclusive place like this. We need a hidey-hole to go where it's acceptable among the consenting group members. :P

Which eventually might boil over and lead to some kind of a RA migration someday, who knows.

bwDraco

@allquixotic I honestly hope not. And yes, I agree a suspension is a bit too much.

Well, did I overreact by flagging?

allquixotic

I'm okay with us moving elsewhere as long as we find some venue to "advertise" (off of the SE network) to ensure a slow trickle of new members, hehe

Even if we migrated today and everyone came along, if we didn't advertise, it would eventually dwindle and die

Or it'd just end up as me Bob and Geek :P

@bwDraco Nah, you're fine... don't second-guess yourself :)

bwDraco

:P

allquixotic

You did what you did and I'm sure if you hadn't, then someone else would definitely have done the same

Burgi

21:11

this is one of the worst web forms i've ever come across

bwDraco

See you in a bit. Got to post-process some photos.

CaffeineAddiction

Anyone have a solid understanding of pipes?

0

Q: How does pv work?

How does the following command pv file.tar.gz | tar -xz work? From my understanding the pipe operator | creates a pipe and stdout of pv is mapped to the O_WRONLY end of the pipe and tar's stdin is mapped to the O_RDONLY with both O_WRONLY and O_RDONLY existing in pipefs This is all well and goo...

Burgi

@CaffeineAddiction you need plumbing.se :D

CaffeineAddiction

pretty much

Burgi

oh come on, that was pretty funny...

ArtOfCode

21:18

@allquixotic Such a hidey hole would not be on SE chat.

Burgi

oh ffs

allquixotic

@ArtOfCode agreed

Burgi

RAPHAEL DOYLE - I Come From Ireland (Lyrics)

►

DavidPostill

21:37

Well I come back from having my supper to find a right old mess ...

allquixotic

@DavidPostill I know that's just a manner of speaking, but in this case, "old" is entirely accurate -- it's old in the sense that I'd hope we can bury it and move on :P

DavidPostill

@allquixotic Agreed. I've caught up on the transcript ... :)

allquixotic

!!info

ChatBot John Cavil

@allquixotic I awoke on Mon, 13 Feb 2017 20:53:43 GMT (that's about 45 minutes ago), haven't done anything yet!

allquixotic

alright, well, the bot's back and not suspended or anything, so that bit is resolved

DavidPostill

21:39

:)

allquixotic

gotta compliment the mods on at least targeting the user who caused the bot to say something offensive, instead of blaming and suspending the bot -- I mean, it was momentarily suspended, but a minor inconvenience all things considered, and easily rectified once I learned how to log into the right container on my server

PSA: if you're a system administrator and you're having issues with one of your systems and you're tempted to think it's the fault of someone else, make sure you log into the right system before you point a finger

(/me learns this for himself today)

djsmiley2k

lul amen

CaffeineAddiction

21:52

@allquixotic yah, its always good to be logged into the right box ... like say, before you do sudo shutdown -r now thinking your on a testing network ... but are really in a production docker host

... details

allquixotic

@CaffeineAddiction hahahaha oh my :D is this speaking from experience?!

CaffeineAddiction

@allquixotic no one can prove anything <.<

it was actually a pretty good test of fault tolerance though ... other docker hosts picked up the load and kept chugging

Bob

so. I slept for less than three hours.

and chat caught fire again. nice.

aren't you supposed to time that for geek, not me? -_-

(then again he's asleep for another two so I guess that works :P)

allquixotic

@Bob ideal is if we time it for both so that neither you nor geek is around, DavidPostill is eating dinner, and bwDraco flags it while I momentarily look away from my keys to do work... because then moderators from other rooms get to deal with it \o/

CaffeineAddiction

/facepalm

Bob

21:58

@CaffeineAddiction so it was testing!

CaffeineAddiction

@Bob sure

Mokubai

@allquixotic do I smell shenanigans?

DavidPostill

@Mokubai all over for the moment

Mokubai

Fair 'nuffski

:)

How's you?

DavidPostill

Me's fine. Managed to enjoy my dinner in peace ;p

Bob

22:01

@SevenSidedDie That sounds a tad condescending tbh. "You're not a mod, therefore you can't know all the details and don't get to say anything unless you become a mod." is what I'm reading out of it.

Mokubai

@DavidPostill Cool, what food was it?

DavidPostill

Chicken thigh and steamed vegetables

Mokubai

Possibly healthier than my dinner of kebab and chips....

Bob

@Mokubai Kebab and chips is nice :P

allquixotic

@Mokubai I was being sardonic -_-

DavidPostill

22:03

Definitely. I try not to have chips every day ...

Mokubai

We should probably get some of these ... how do you say . . . ve-ge-tables. . . in at some point

allquixotic

@Mokubai I read that as "I'm trying not to puke at the mere thought of eating a plant"

Mokubai

I like brocoli. Brocoli nice.

Bob

@Mokubai really depends how you cook it :P

Mokubai

Sadly though, most meals out consist of primarily meat with side of ignored salad

Bob

22:05

I've had done great broccoli... and some incredibly bland too.

DavidPostill

@Bob I did say steamed.

allquixotic

@Mokubai is that a variety of salad on the menu? "ignored"? :)

DavidPostill

3

Q: Cooking time for steaming vegetables "Al Dente'?

I have a pack of mixed vegetables (peas, broccoli pieces, green beans and diced leek) that I want to steam in a two pan vegetable steamer (the bottom of the top pan is perforated). The pack contains vegetables that are: Mixed together (and cannot be easily separated). Fresh not frozen. The lee...

vegetables steaming

allquixotic

Caesar salad - $3.50
Ignored salad - $4.50 ($1.00 disposal surcharge)

@DavidPostill I love the words "Al Dente" -- to the tooth! Vegetables/spaghetti/whatever you are, get to my teeth NOW!

DavidPostill

@allquixotic lol

Mokubai

22:08

@allquixotic "Extra Fancy Decorative Salad £25 (inedible)"

Bob

@Mokubai "dishwasher-safe"

Mokubai

@Bob Been through at least 5 times already before making it to your plate. Eventually it's almost cooked enough for someone to eat.

allquixotic

@Mokubai or you could take the lazy salad route and eat Soylent Green, which is salad product in a "pinch your nose and drink it down" package

Bob

hmm. my watch battery is dying :(

allquixotic

@Bob Apple Watch owners say that daily at 3pm lolololololol

Bob

22:15

@allquixotic I charged it Saturday and it says it'll die this afternoon (Tuesday) :(

used to last at least a week

maybe it's the heat

allquixotic

maybe it's Maybelline

Bob

now there's a scary thought

Mokubai

@allquixotic mmmm. soylent green.

allquixotic

22:39

!! s/e/s/g

ChatBot John Cavil

@allquixotic @allquixotic mmmm. soylsnt grssn. (source)

allquixotic

!! s/l/m/g

ChatBot John Cavil

@allquixotic @ammquixotic @ammquixotic mmmm. soymsnt grssn. (source) (source)

bwDraco

lol

Mokubai

mmmkay.

Burgi

22:50

my throat is so scratchy

Mokubai

I hear soylent green makes a good sore throat medicine

Bob

@allquixotic camelcamelcamel.com/…

price going back up :(

oh, what was your drive model again?

Journeyman Geek

23:24

Morning

Mokubai

Goodnight?

I thought there was an unspoken agreement to use non-timezone-specific greetings?

Ahargleblargle

Journeyman Geek

Lol

Ugh. Something happened last night I see.

DavidPostill

Greetings :)

@JourneymanGeek Please move on, nothing to see here :)

Journeyman Geek

Lol

@DavidPostill eh. While SE seems less than concerned with folk migrating chat offsite I am not :p

DavidPostill

@JourneymanGeek I totally agree.

Journeyman Geek

23:31

Also if shit happens, make manure :p

DavidPostill

Very profound ...

Journeyman Geek

I'll see what happened from my desk, post walkies

allquixotic

@Bob ST8000DM002

although I'd definitely recommend this instead for a new purchase

Bob

@allquixotic nah, I have too many already :P

@allquixotic not quite the same as mine

I ended up with the Archive ones ST8000AS0002

@allquixotic also, that $/GB is :(

Journeyman Geek

23:59

@allquixotic meta is case law. TOSes and Word of TPTB rulings are statutes. Meta wins (unless its self contradictory, which is going to be a pain) unless some official ruling says otherwise.

I guess its entirely arbitrary, but yanno.

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