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6:00 PM
The "significance of 169"?
Hm.
This is making everything more confusing, not less :P
 
I meant 196, sorry. Just mistyped the number
And I actually confused myself in the process :) I guess. With all those 1s,9s and 6s - one must be careful with them, I guess.
So let me fix it: 691 does not bear the significance of 196, but is still plausible.
 
Plausible? Okay...
 
You will understand what I mean :P
 
@FrodCube meet in the other room?
 
ok
 
6:39 PM
@Deusovi how valid of a CC is this?

Four headed mafioso tumbles into untruthful demonic pet(8)
 
@dcfyj I feel like the answer should be CERBERUS [demonic pet], but can't make it work.
 
It's not cerberus
 
Could be OUR[four headed (although, I don't recall if I've ever seen this as a beheading indicator)] + DON[mafioso] inside a (two-letter?) synonym for untruthful...
 
Right, into isn't a good word there, let me rewrite that a little to make it less misleading
Four-headed mafioso tumbles with untruthful demonic pet(8)
I forgot into was a wordplay word
 
@dcfyj Actually it's perfectly fine to use a wordplay indicator as a connector word (i.e. a word which connects wordplay and definition), so long as it makes sense as such. Just consider the example of "Speech about pig’s head and flower = P+ROSE". "About" is usually an indicator of anagrams or containers, but here it's being used as a connector word. Such ambiguity is frequently exploited by tougher clues.
 
6:52 PM
yes, but aren't connector words supposed to be used between def and wordplay?
 
@dcfyj By definition that is what a connector word is, yes. But if you have some other term that is regularly used to clue wordplay (for example, about or into), and it makes sense as a connector in a particular context, it is fine to use it as such.
 
Well, either way the surface reading looks pretty good (to me at least)
I would solve the current C4 and post that one as a new one, if I could solve the current C4 :P
 
@dcfyj I would do something similar, alas...
 
I have successfully solved a single C4 since we started
But I think that was more luck than anything else
 
@dcfyj When exactly did the chain start?
 
6:58 PM
I don't remember, it was a while ago
Nov 15 '16 at 3:53, by Alconja
New chat game: the person who answers the most recent chat cryptic clue has to pose a new one.
About 3ish months ago apparently
"Officially" anyhow, they'd started tossing cryptics in chat a week or two before that
 
@dcfyj Oh, wow. I thought it went farther back than that.
 
Nah, it's not really that old
So where'd @Deusovi go?
 
Hello! I'm back.
 
He lives!
'lo
 
herro
me name oiler v
 
7:13 PM
No sir, you may not have "some more" :P
 
What's that clue supposed to be?
 
You mean what's the answer?
 
Yeah.
 
72>:=:2C 47
 
Hm. I'm not sure if I like it. It's probably not invalid, but it's a bit questionable.
 
7:16 PM
I'm going to repost it so I don't have to keep scrolling back and forth:


Four-headed mafioso tumbles with untruthful demonic pet(8)
Which part is questionable?
 
The first part.
(Actually, there's a part of speech mismatch in the second part of the wordplay too...)
 
I wasn't super sure how to do the first part ( and the mismatch I can fix by adding an 's' to the answer, that's not really an issue (I think))
 
I don't see how you could fix it with an 's'.
 
Could what? fix the mismatch? you meant the "tumbles", right?
 
No.
 
7:19 PM
OK, elaborate if you could lol
 
That's not an issue at all.
I mean the "untruthful".
 
How is that a mismatch?
 
"untruthful" is an adjective. The word you meant for it to synonymize with is not an adjective.
 
Oh, that kind of mismatch. It's in the wordplay though
 
So?
That doesn't change anything. It's still a mismatch, which is not allowed in cryptics.
 
7:21 PM
What would you use then?
 
I don't know. I probably wouldn't structure my clue like that, to be honest.
(For one, that word seems perfect for a double-def.)
 
Yeah, I thought of doing ddef for it,but It seemed like too much of a giveaway
 
"Friendly pet (8)"
 
I see the pet part (although I'm not that sure about it) but I don't see the friendly
Ok, I kind of see it, don't really like it though
 
puu.sh/tIFH8 / removeme e1232fb066.png
 
7:26 PM
So with the way I have it written (disregarding the mismatch) How is one to clue the first 4 letters?
 
I don't think I've ever seen it, but could you have a clue break in the middle of a word?
 
@Deusovi It won't let me look at it (says I don't have access to it)
 
I wouldn't do that unless it was a variety cryptic.
Wait, really? Weird.
 
variety?
 
I can see it
 
7:27 PM
Anyway, just google "[answer word] definition"
@dcfyj Cryptic crossword with an additional gimmick.
I posted one a while ago:
18
Q: Plenty of Clues in the Crossword

DeusoviThis is a variety cryptic. Each clue or answer will be modified in one of four ways: ONE CLUE: These clues are lonely. TWO CLUE: These clues are twins - they have a bit of an identity crisis. RED CLUE: These clues are communists - they love sharing specific parts of themselves with oth...

 
I already did that, that's why I said I kind of get it, but I just don't like it.
Grabbing the first 4 letters is a gimmick?
 
Nah, that was a response to @stacksfiller
Maybe "ordinary pet" then?
 
Ah ok
 
@dcfyj Grammatical mismatches are allowed between the surface reading and the cryptic reading. For example I recently used "wrong stress" (which appears to have adj/noun structure) to clue "sin tax" (a noun and a verb). But I could not expect that "tax" to then clue "taxes" in my answer. That kind of mismatch is not allowed.
 
^
 
The surface reading is just a distraction from the cryptic reading. It's fine to make it look like it should be interpreted one way, when it should actually be interpreted another way.
 
it turns out it was just a really bad cipher
 
D:
 
I have no issue matching tense, it's the other part I have issues with lol
 
Anyway, I'm thinking about how best to do the other part.
You could do "mafia" and hint at a deletion of the last letter.
 
7:32 PM
True, I hadn't thought of that
 
Loving this private beta sans CSS. Gotta use JS to vote.
 
So more like "Endless mafia of deceivers tumbles into demonic pets (9)"
 
Your anagram indicator's in the wrong place.
 
I was hoping I could just clue to anagram everything in front :P
 
That'd be an indirect anagram.
 
7:35 PM
boo
 
(Even though you don't actually anagram the second part.)
 
true
Can you have sequential indicators for the same word?
 
Like, "delete first and last letter, then anagram" or something?
Sure.
 
So "Demonic pets endlessly tumble mafia of deceivers (9)"?
 
That'd be "anagram, then remove last letter".
 
7:37 PM
bah
 
You'd need to flip the indicators.
Think of it like function calls in programming or math.
f(g(x)) means "apply g first, then f". It's slightly different here since you can put the indicator on either side, but the same principle applies.
 
Technically that could work, but it would probably end up having multiple answers, a.k.a. unacceptable
 
(Of course, if you had an idea for how to clue "remove the letter A", then you could do that either before or after anagramming, since it wouldn't change anything.)
Hm?
 
I mean you could anagram it to have the extra a at the end, then remove, but as I said, probably would have multiple answers
(Or no answer at all) haha
Would "tumble endlessly with mafia..." work? Or does the "with" kill it?
 
"with" kills it. There's no way to interpret that as "anagram 'mafia' without last letter".
 
7:43 PM
"Demonic pets reform endless mafia of deceivers (9)"
 
@FrodCube Any tips for future ciphers? (I'm not used to them at all)
 
Sounds like a news headline, hehe
 
Not quite sure about the "of" there, but the rest is solid.
Yeah, a lot of cryptic clues do
(Replace "of" with "with" and it'd work fine.)
 
OK, I think this'll set it in a much better tense (and the surface reading sounds a bit better too):

"Demonic pets reform endless mafia with deceivers (9)"
@Deusovi I was typing that very thing up haha
 
@Deusovi you always seem to have a hint ready. Any guide for ciphers?
Or 'guidelines'
 
7:47 PM
I'm not usually a fan of ciphers.
 
Anyhow, I got on the because of your zelda clue yesterday, and then I was talking Ni No Kuni with KK (It has familiars in it) So I decided to write one up for that :P
 
Good guide, thanks!
 
@incesterror21 Hint them well
 
No problem! :D
 
Ahh, that Deusovi. Always very helpful!
 
7:47 PM
I've heard of Ni No Kuni. Never played it though.
 
I have a small series of cipher puzzles that I hinted (I think) pretty well
 
I'll check out your profile then, thanks.
 
Ciphers are hard to pull off well because most of them were designed not to be cracked.
 
@Deusovi It's rather enjoyable, the battle system annoys me on occasion (mostly the AI of my party members)
 
Puzzles are different - you want puzzles to be solved. Making a good puzzle is like challenging someone to a battle of wits that you set yourself up to lose.
 
7:49 PM
@dcfyj looks like 'pre-cipher-riddles' help a lot.
 
Probably my favorite cipher I've posted was the walrus one
They do, you can cryptically hide the clues in riddles
I forgot I wrote this question >.<
 
Yeah, no offense, but there are several problems with those clues.
 
You don't like riddles I suppose.
 
Go for it
He's talking about my CCs in the linked question
 
Me? Nah, not really.
That's a personal thing, though.
 
7:56 PM
Just as a future help, do you want to point out the errors? (I'm sure I have quite a few)
 
Oh sure!
 
So you don't like riddles or ciphers. What is it you like then?
 
Cryptic clues mwahahhahahaha
 
Wordplay, visual puzzles, puzzle-hunt-style puzzles (usually those tagged with fit this), math puzzles (actual puzzles though, not just exercises)...
 
How do you do tags?
 
7:57 PM
... puzzles...
[tag:tagname]
 
I was about to put that :P
 
Ohh god
 
Alright, let's see, dcfyj...
 
Well we're lucky there's no tag called "tagname"
 
(actually, give me a couple minutes)
 
7:58 PM
That's fine
 
Nah, it'd work.
I used a backslash to escape the first [.
brb
 
I'm bss gb orq. Bye!
 
ok...?
 
Back
 
I just changed hanging to hang (in a notepad file) matches tense better and still reads well
 
8:02 PM
Anyway, those clues: The first clue is valid, but the surface reading isn't very good. It's immediately obvious that "dear cel" is anagram fodder because of how unnatural it sounds. I'd've used DE(CL)AR + E or something.
 
Yeah, I knew that one would be solved rather quickly, I felt like the second one was my best of the bunch
 
The second clue is fine, although "pendent" is a bit obscure. I'd say it's acceptable though.
 
Would you say it should stay as hanging, or be hang?
 
The third clue isn't valid - "of" is not a valid split word. If you use a word to split, it has to signal the relationship between the two halves.
Well, considering that "hang" and "pendent" are not synonyms...
 
right, ok
(I haven't looked at these in a while :P)
 
8:05 PM
You could've clued it as PEN+DENT or PEND+ENT.
(I probably would've chosen the former, but the way you did it was perfectly fine too and no better or worse than what I'd've done.)
 
Yeah, changing the build would make it hard to work the surface reading
So other than the first being stupidly easy, the only real issue is the third?
 
Yeah.
 
So I did pretty good then :)
 
And the semi-obscurity of pendent.
 
That's what google's for :P
Either way they all got solved
 
8:08 PM
Yep!
 
As for obscurity I don't usually think about it since I've read many a book and as such my vocabulary is rather large
 
Google could be useful in many ways. Anyway, I don't think I could ever write a proper cryptic clue.
 
Oh, the other clue (the one that those three answers hinted at) also has the "of connector" problem.
Oh hey Maria!
You should try it!
 
I did - I suck at it. :) I am not good at solving them either. But I like them nonetheless.
 
Right forgot about number 4 lol
What's wrong with of in the last clue? the of is between def and wordplay
 
8:10 PM
Yes, that's the issue.
6 mins ago, by Deusovi
The third clue isn't valid - "of" is not a valid split word. If you use a word to split, it has to signal the relationship between the two halves.
 
How would I link them then?
 
I can't think of a good way that works for that clue specifically off the top of my head.
But [def] is [wp], [def] from [wp], [wp] for [def], [def] and [wp], and [def] or [wp] are all acceptable.
 
So I could just say "What has no end? Gale's two feet or beluga! (5)" then
 
Sure.
 
Huh, just found this

• One link word that causes problems is “of”. Traditionally, the view has been that
“Definition of Wordplay” is fine but that “Wordplay of Definition” is not. However, you
will often see the latter form of construction. Similarly “Definition [given] by Wordplay”
works but “Wordplay [given] by Definition” does not.
 
8:18 PM
Ah, interpreting "of" as "from". Eh, I don't really like that.
 
from?
I see no froms...
 
They don't say that, but "definition of wordplay" seems to be interpreted similar to "definition from wordplay".
 
ah
 
8:35 PM
@Deusovi

Organizes shows (8)

Valid?
 
Good <insert time of day here>!
 
Good Aftermornight!
4
 
Good daynight! :D
 
I like mine better :P
Flows better
 
It happens to be 10:38 PM here, so I'll say good morning...
 
8:38 PM
PM?
 
I should try to add evening in there...
 
Yes. PM.
 
I guess that is one odd morning.
 
Very long one
 
*shrug*
I'll go to bed at 1 or so.
 
8:39 PM
I once had lunch at 5 am, though. So, yeah, why not? :D
 
Third shift?
 
To who?
 
Good Aftermornevenight!
 
Well, the meals I took on night shifts didn't count. But this was specifically called "lunch". I was one of the extras in a low budget movie, haha
 
ah cool
 
8:41 PM
Cool!
 
:) It was fun
 
lol "It was, FU!" :P
 
I'd like to do that, but 1.) No movies being made around here 2.) I'm 14. So...
 
(Disclaimer: Maria never wrote it that way)
There was a movie being made the next town over a few months ago here
 
hahaha, I corrected myself. :) I am at moment doing jigsaw puzzles with my almost 3-year-old son.
So, I am a bit distracted.
 
8:43 PM
Awww
 
So, 20 piece puzzles...?
 
And yes, it is 10.42 pm and he is still not in bed. :P
12
 
Or is he "helping" you?
 
I am currently having Wix crash my computer, and watching the Lit mod post, and watching 5 sites main and a few metas, so...
 
heh
 
8:43 PM
He is literally asking for every single piece: "Where is that, Mom?"
 
lol
Think it out, boy. Match the shapes and colors.
 
At least I am on topic... Hahaha - "solving" puzzles :D
2
 
lol
 
And you would never guess what the jigsaw pictures are
 
Animals?
 
8:45 PM
Princesses
 
0.0
 
@Deusovi was my last CC valid? AC@8C2>D 47
 
They are his sister's :D
 
Princesses are considered animals to you? That's not very nice...
 
^starbait
 
8:47 PM
I guess?
 
@Mithrandir This makes me think of Starbound: a mildly entertaining game I've not played in I have no idea how long.
@Mithrandir are you good at CCs?
 
No way.
 
lol ok
 
I'm horrible :P
 
8:49 PM
I don't know how seriously to take you now...
 
o_o I'm seriously awful.
 
OK, the "I'm horrible :P" put that into question (for me). It made it sound sarcastic.
 
Example: CC: Awful (3)
 
lol, that's not a CC
 
Exactly
 
8:51 PM
Organizes shows (8)
^ (I think) that's a valid CC
 
...No idea.
 
I'm trying to get a better grasp on how to build them. I have a bad habit of using "of"
@Mithrandir scroll up to where I linked 47
(and copy the gibberish next to it)
 
...How does that work?
Like, how do you get that answer from the CC?
 
Ddef
 
...I don't understand CCs. I'm horrible.
 
8:54 PM
Yeah, as I said. Trying to get a grasp
Did you ever read Deusovi's guide?
 
Once
I was baffled.
I had smoke leaking out of my ears. I broke SmokeDetector.
 
heh
 
9:10 PM
CCCC clue #2: "At a loss" does not mean perplexed
 
1
Q: What is RH34D saying?

MelkorAn organistion named RH34D has developed an new encryption system codenamed G. Previous encryption methods include V0C4l5 created by encryptor codenamed Y0RK3. Here is some encrypted text we found, can you crack the cipher? It may be easier to see in text: AADDDEEEGG 1312312313 ADEG 2222 AA...

 
9:25 PM
I assume the "?" is probably for "at a loss"
something like INDEBTED
 
 
2 hours later…
11:02 PM
0
Q: is there a name for this?

mattHello smart english word people i was playing around with some word play, and came up with this: Sally's Wet In My pool Is there a name for when you have a word, and you use the letters from that word to create a phrase or sentance that relates to the original word? for example, i know that ...

 
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