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12:00 AM
Lol
 
@Psycogeek He mispellled his sign. It's "IT'S", it's not "ITS"
 
I think the modern curbside diva here is a p4 or c2d
 
12:28 AM
Morning
 
Missed repcap by -2 :(
@JourneymanGeek Morning
 
:(
i just woke up
 
lol. You overachievers ;p
I didn't answer anything yesterday, and most of my rep was off a bounty ;)
 
@CanadianLuke He misspelled his post. It's "misspelled" not "mispellled" :)
 
@DavidPostill I know, ti's called irony!
Lol
But, work day is over. I'm running away! See y'all next time!
 
12:33 AM
!!therethere
 
Sorry, that was needed elsewhere
@ThatBrazilianGuy but do you truely hate Drupal?
 
Bob
.
 
@Rahul2001 relevant to you: security.stackexchange.com/q/147820/81492
@Psycogeek thats not time, its spending too long in the bath
 
@Burgi lol my feet have crows feet
 
12:48 AM
do your crow's feet have crowsfeet?
Is it fractal crows feet all the way down?
heh
meta.stackexchange.com/questions/289398/… I've been trying to project our experiences here
and I'm failing cause I realise y'all are pretty unique ;p
 
Mac migration assistant over peer to peer wifi transferring at 42 MB/s
336 megabit? That's 802.11ac speed
 
nice?
I thought most modernish macs were AC anyway, and I assume its short range
 
1:04 AM
@JourneymanGeek My laptop has 2x2 802.11ac and it's three years old.
(Intel Wireless-AC 7260 NIC)
 
@bwDraco I'm referring specifically to what @allquixotic was talking about though ;p
@allquixotic that's one of the few situations where 802.11 ad makes sense ._.
 
Yeah ac is old and no longer sexy but I'm not used to wifi being that fast
 
lol
I just got my personal gear on AC ;p
 
Oddly, I'm the only one with 802.11ac gear in my house.
We have a mix of 802.11n and 802.11ac devices here. My laptop, phone, and tablet are all 802.11ac, but my printer is 802.11n and my parents' devices are all 802.11n.
 
most of my current gear is 2.4ghz n or g
I do have an old ABG laptop
 
1:10 AM
The router, as I've said before, is a NETGEAR Nighthawk X4S, which is 802.11ac Wave 2, supporting 4x4 MU-MIMO. Unfortately, the only client device I have that supports MU-MIMO is my phone.
 
I still want to build my own router
also, looked at mesh gear. 600 dollars for the netgear flavoured one 0_0
 
I have no real need for mesh networking.
 
I'm actually a perfect case of someone who actually needs it
 
Care to explain?
 
Large apartment, with no lines of sight, and a few places that act as shielding
 
1:13 AM
Huh.
 
1) our apartments are concrete and re-bar
2) we have a glass sliding door in our living room from our old office that acts as shielding.
 
I can generally get a good Wi-Fi signal pretty much everywhere in the house, except perhaps in the backyard (and a bit of antenna adjustment may very well help).
 
3)We have internal windows that acts as shelding
 
Ouch.
 
We have rebarred beams that act as shielding.
support walls? rebar.
Oh
and a ton of other APs
 
Yeah, pretty much the worst
Probably not helped by the network being designed for a completely different layout initially
(back when we had one pc, the modem was in another room. Then my dad had fibre installed in the living room for some inscrutable reason. And I can't do homeplug there due to washer/dryer related noise, so the homeplug units are there, through somewhat dodgy cabling...
actually I should try moving it, the newer gear is supposed to reject noise better.
13
Q: Can I clean my Macbook Pro keyboard with vodka?

Julien__I don't have any cleaning product right now at home, and the only alcohol I have is vodka. Can it be used to clean my keyboard and trackpad, or will it damage my laptop? (I think that alcohol is often used to clean computers, but I'm not sure that it's the same kind of alcohol)

 
1:49 AM
@JourneymanGeek in terry pratchett's last continent they put their politicians in prison immediately after they are elected as it apparently saves time. something to consider in the real world?
 
lol
More that we self regulate effectively
 
Bob
@JourneymanGeek is there something you posted there?
 
Not yet
 
Bob
sounds like a fun guy
 
Ugh
My internet is down.
 
1:59 AM
I'm considering posting a thing about Carl Rogers' idea of "unconditional positive regard" on the MSE, should I bother?
 
Bob
o.O
 
@BenN not sure what you mean by that
 
Basically, that every person has worth as a person, regardless of what they're saying
Unconditional positive regard, a concept developed by the humanistic psychologist Carl Rogers, is the basic acceptance and support of a person regardless of what the person says or does, especially in the context of client-centered therapy. Its founder, Carl Rogers, writes: The central hypothesis of this approach can be briefly stated. It is that the individual has within him or her self vast resources for self-understanding, for altering her or his self-concept, attitudes, and self-directed behavior—and that these resources can be tapped if only a definable climate of facilitative psychological...
Obviously, that does not free them from consequences; it's more of a "hey, that guy who just cussed us out is still a human being" reminder
And someone being wrong/dangerous/evil in your opinion does not entitle you to abandon respectful discourse
 
Bob
@BenN Sounds nice and all but, regardless of who might have said it, it seems to just echo existing answers.
 
Yeah, that's a concern
 
Bob
2:04 AM
Maybe a comment instead?
 
like "Summer Hill Children" "Members of the community are free to do as they please, so long as their actions do not cause any harm to others, according to Neill's principle "Freedom, not Licence." "
 
Given that the time for that whole discussion has passed (it's no longer featured), I'll probably wait for the next relevant thing
 
I was thinking more of how we handle things openly, internally and responsibly :p
 
""A free school is not a place where you can run roughshod over other people. It's a place that minimises the authoritarian elements and maximises the development of community and really caring about the other people. Doing this is a tricky business."
 
Bob
@JourneymanGeek ...unfortunately, that's not completely true :P
 
2:07 AM
obvious we dont have any of that here, or there would be 300million active users not 15 :-)
 
@Bob well when things go well :p
 
I've noticed that some other sites are just recently starting to get RO rotations into place, while The Management here has had that for as long as I can remember
 
Ah. Today is when we get our speed upgrade.
Yup
 
@JourneymanGeek and that is why your net is down?
 
I did that cause of recycle, and I wanted a few more folk covering soft moderation duties.
 
2:10 AM
Recycle?
 
Troll who turns up every so often.
 
Bob
@BenN hm?
@BenN aka RB
we avoid saying some names since SWMNBN :P
@JourneymanGeek tbh I'd say 90%+ of moderation here never uses any 'powers' above a normal chat user
<== still hasn't ever issued a kick-mute
 
@Bob I think I remember there being some sort of ordeal on PPCG; there was a call for more ROs
 
@Bob by design
 
Bob
yup
 
2:34 AM
@Psycogeek yes
No one told me though
 
Oct 21 '16 at 16:54, by Mokubai
@bwDraco Or you could just get yourself a proper Network Stress Testing tool, I believe Overwatch is the current tool of choice for inducing stress over a network...
...finally got around with a proper network testing tool, repurposing my old laptop as a server.
Running iPerf3.
Four streams, 1 MB TCP window size.
 
> I believe Overwatch is the current tool of choice for inducing stress over a network...
rofl
 
Peak performance, main laptop directly adjacent to router: 523 Mbps. Fantastic.
(server is connected via Ethernet)
Average 481 Mbps.
295 Mbps from my bedroom (directly above the router).
this is upstream, though. Trying downstream...
...looks like the Windows network stack is the limiting factor in the downstream test. :\
947 Mbps over Ethernet.
2.4 GHz 802.11n tops out at about 80-90 Mbps.
Yeah, the Windows network stack is crap.
500 Mbps over Wi-Fi, even in rather unrealistic conditions, shows that the Intel Wireless-AC 7260 and the router itself are both up to scratch.
(theoretical max is 866 Mbps)
 
Bob
3:17 AM
@bwDraco [citation needed]
Considering the Windows network stack is derived from BSD...
 
@Bob Oddly, it's CPU bound. Might be a filter driver or other factor involved.
It could be the Hyper-V vSwitch...
(and yes, I am using ThrottleStop to ensure the processor runs at full speed even on battery)
 
Bob
@bwDraco Basically, unless you have Linux, BSD, etc., running side-by-side with Windows, and there's a significant difference, you can't exactly call one poor even in a specific scenario.
And even if it's poor in a specific scenario, that does not mean it's crap overall.
 
@Bob My apologies. I just feel like I'm losing the community's trust.
 
The shiny new 7260 in my E6500 seems to do well, despite its size.
 
Bob
They're differently tuned - for example, looking at TCP congestion control algos, IIRC Windows uses New Reno (CTCP optional, disabled by default on client editions), while Linux uses CUBIC. Arguable which is "better", and each will perform better in different scenarios.
 
Bob
@bwDraco dw 'bout it, I'm pretty sure I've said similar things in the past. I freely admit I'm a massive hypocrite :P
 
dude your allowed to have an opinion :-)
 
Bob
I'm just bored and if you actually have comparative results that'd be interesting to see.
And if you actually wanted to tune it properly... yea, removing the vswitch would probably help.
@bwDraco Actually. Are you testing with UDP or TCP?
 
TCP.
 
i'd be more suprised that layering security into a somewhat finished product 300 times doesn't destroy the speeds.
 
3:23 AM
...using the Hurricane Electric Network Tools app on my phone.
 
Bob
@bwDraco That, plus the vswitch, could explain a lot.
Ideally you'd do some offloading to the NIC.
If you're CPU-bound, then that might not be happening.
@bwDraco in theory vmswitch supports LSO blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/altr/2014/09/12/…
 
Okay, reconfigured the vSwitch to internal.
 
Bob
:34668048 You don't necessarily have to change anything...
It's just if you want to compare network stacks, you should test as many scenarios as you can, see if there's a difference.
Personally, I don't really care about wireless throughput.
Even if I did care, if it can sustain 100Mbps that's good enough for me.
But if you want to push it as far as you can just to see the number, that's perfectly fine too.
 
...that did not help.
 
Bob
@bwDraco One thing you should do is make sure your Wi-Fi drivers are NDIS 6.x.
 
3:30 AM
...updating driver.
The vSwitch has been set back to external.
 
Bob
@bwDraco Here's an old benchmark, 2005: wand.net.nz/pubs/211/pdf/p21.pdf
 
If it works, I don't typically touch it.
 
Bob
There's massive changes on both sides since then.
Vista had a complete rewrite of the network stack IIRC.
pretty sure Linux did something similar, but I can't find a source right now.
 
Server's running openSUSE Leap 42.2.
 
Bob
Lots of tweaks over time though. e.g. Linux 3.0 release notes.
 
3:33 AM
brb, rebooting.
 
Bob
@bwDraco I also wonder if enabling CTCP would make a difference, though that's usually more significant with higher latencies.
Anyway. Most of this kind of tuning is entirely unnecessary.
And if it's not actually CPU-bound, sometimes disabling offloading can actually speed things up.
Some NICs have limited receive window sizes when offloading.
 
Let me see if I can adjust the NIC settings...
Going through the settings...
...never mind.
No significant difference in throughput.
 
Dija ever . . . Update a game via/from steam and hate the changes that are made via the update? referring specific to changes that effect gameplay. like re-balanced the threat of a charachter, or changed the hitpoint ratio to make it more challenging, and other changes that effect the persons trained gameplay?
I am asking because some of these update changes , seem like they would be "better" for people who already played the original game.
 
Bob
> Our experimental configuration consisted of four
nodes. Each node contained a 120 MHz Pentium proces-
sor, 64 megabytes of memory, a 10 Mb/sec Ethernet card,
and a SMC EtherPower 100 Mb/sec Fast Ethernet card
(DEC 21140 chipset).
lol
@bwDraco Also worth looking at the iperf params for window size, and maybe trying UDP.
 
...from my tablet.
 
Bob
3:48 AM
> turns out iperf on windows defaults to 8k tcp window size and to 88k window size on linux
comment in 2012
not sure if that's just an OS default or something iperf specifically does
 
Enough testing for the day. I'm shutting down the server.
1 MB window.
 
Bob
shrug
have you tried testing both OSes on the same hardware in the same position?
I need to try that sometime
 
@Bob quite literally my phone has more power than that.
 
Bob
@JourneymanGeek my first-gen rpi has more power than that
 
that too
 
Bob
3:50 AM
my watch might have more power than that
hm
actually maybe not
an android wear watch would, but pebble is much lower power
> ARM Cortex-M3, up to 80 MHz with 512 KB of on-chip storage all in STMicroelectronics' STM32F205RE6 SoC (System on a Chip)
> Memory (RAM): 128 kB (provided on the SoC mentioned above). The RAM is split between the system (84 kB), background worker (12 kB), and the currently running app (32 kB). Only 24 kB of the 32 kB is directly usable by the app developer, the other 8 kB is for things like the app framebuffer that the app has access to but doesn't use directly.
ok, less RAM, CPU is unknown
 
At least I have the comfort of knowing that I can hit 280-300 Mbps from my bedroom and at least 90-100 Mbps throughout the house.
 
Bob
> 188 MIPS at 100 MHz
original Pentium, Dhrystone MIPS, 1994
> 125 MIPS at 100 MHz
 
how i would determine if my wi-fi sucks
c0nnect direct with a wire, enjoy for days, disconnect wire connect wireless, and feel how painfull the actual delays are.
 
Bob
Cortex-M3, Dhrystone MIPS, 2004
So the ol' Pentium actually has more processing power than my watch :P
 
measure the frustration to the dollers required to fix it, and return back to the wire.
 
3:58 AM
Haswell does about ~3.5-4 DMIPS/MHz without link-time optimization (per the test specification), and about 8 DMIPS/MHz fully optimized.
...matching the decode width and issue width of the uarch, respectively.
Laptop wireless antennas do have limited gain, and are typically nowhere near as good as a dedicated wireless adapter with standalone antenna.
 
4:16 AM
@Bob @bwDraco ^^ TIL the new Macbook and MBP have 4kn SSDs o_O
 
@allquixotic ...that's possible because Macs, being the closed platforms they are, don't need to deal with hardware backwards compatibility.
 
@bwDraco I suppose, but even platforms that don't have that "closed-ness" are starting to see 4kn drives in the enterprise sector, but I thought they only reserved those for HDDs >4TB in size?
 
I have not heard of a non-enterprise 4Kn storage device until now.
 
I thought I remembered reading it was required to use either 512e or 4kn if your drive was 4 TB or larger
 
Enterprises may choose 4Kn to future-proof their storage systems, to avoid dealing with migration from 512e...
 
4:19 AM
like you couldn't use 512n for some reason
 
@allquixotic That's because it's damn near impossible to make a hard drive with 512n sectors that large.
Your bit error rate's going to go through the roof.
This 512e business and attendant sector alignment issues is supposed to be temporary. Windows 8 and later have no trouble with 4Kn drives, but a 4Kn drive will not work on the vast range of systems still running Windows 7, except perhaps as external media.
There's a reason we're going through this Advanced Format transition.
Native 512-byte sectors are absolutely tiny how large today's drives are.
 
and 512e is slow and yucky :P
 
Physical defects in the media that once covered tiny portions of the platter can now wipe out entire sectors.
(detailing Windows support for AF drives)
11
A: What's the point of hard drives reporting their physical sector size?

bwDracoThe 512-byte emulation is intended for compatibility with older systems. However, writes involving only part of a physical 4K sector can cause reduced performance because the sector needs to be read and modified before it can actually be written. When a legacy operating system tries to write to ...

 
i ran a 4k sector drive back in XP , but it had a translation switch. I ended up with them for really cheap , because people didnt know how to use a jumper :-) about that time you could say people were not ready for it, and instead of all the next drives being 4K (at that time) everything instead came emulated
 
Bob
@bwDraco uhhhh, no?
It's not "made possible by a closed platform"
 
4:33 AM
Kinda, but there's absolutely no reason for the system to use a 512e drive if the software supports it and you assume the drive will never be placed into another machine and an old OS will never be run on the system.
 
Bob
Just about all hardware supported by Windows or Linux goes through a third-party driver or module before it becomes part of an official distribution (or the kernel itself in Linux's case).
@bwDraco And that's an equally safe assumption for most Windows laptops.
Especially tablets/ultrabooks (where it's not really possible to remove the drive), but even traditional laptops.
 
Apple hates maintaining legacy technologies on new systems.
 
Bob
And laptop manufacturers, by and large, don't care whether a different OS will work.
They ship with Win10. If it works on Win10, that's good enough for them.
Even back in 2009 (Vista/7) many machines would not work with XP anymore.
Windows laptop manufacturers care about as much about old Windows OSes as Apple (via Boot Camp) does.
 
@Bob ...and Kaby Lake systems do not support Windows 7 or 8.
There's loads of new low-level tech in these new chips that won't work on older OS versions.
 
there wasnt any reduced performance from 512s writing into 4k holes, because what writes such tiny files? and if it does write only 1/2k then that 1/2 k isnt about to slow down the writing of gigs
 
4:37 AM
@Psycogeek Logs. Everyday apps.
Not every I/O operation is a big sequential write.
 
Bob
@allquixotic Makes sense for SSDs cause your typical page size is >4k... fewer partial page writes.
 
The vast majority of I/Os on a consumer system are random reads and (to a lesser degree) random writes.
 
Bob
IIRC 8k NAND pages are a thing now
 
I believe 16k pages are actually common these days...
 
Bob
@bwDraco that sounds odd for consumer
maybe in the larger sizes?
 
4:41 AM
@bwDraco too true, but those were a joke, a bit of background noise, to anyone actually needing TBs. plus i dont keep my OS on my datadisks and visa versa. right tool for the jobs
 
Bob
I'm honestly surprised 512e is still common with NVMe
 
@Bob Agreed.
It's not like the drive will even boot on a stock Windows 7 system.
(absent a hotfix)
...and this came in from Google Now: guru3d.com/news-story/…
yesterday, by bwDraco
Some changes to Intel's low-end processors for the 7th (Kaby Lake) generation:
- Hyper-Threading Technology is now enabled on Pentium processors. The least expensive Pentium chip from this generation, G4560, costs about $70.
- ECC memory support has been removed from Celeron, Pentium, and Core i3 processors. You will need a Xeon processor this time around. However, Xeon processors and matching motherboards have been more widespread for the 6th (Skylake) generation. This will make building a home server with ECC memory somewhat more expensive (the cheapest Skylake Xeon E3 v5 processor runs $
(a bit of an erratum: a few select desktop Core i3 parts with the E suffix do have ECC support)
 
Bob
@bwDraco That actually brings up something I've complained about a lot: how hard it is to find processor info for AMD
They don't seem to have anything like ark
(that said, I wish Intel would make the datasheets publicly available too :\ )
 
Relatively recent, though.
 
Bob
@bwDraco Ah, that might explain why I've not come across it before.
Always ended up on notebookcheck
which annoys me
don't like third-party sources for this kind of spec
> Max Temps
61.10° C
o.O
if that's actually max, that's ... far too low
> TDP
125 W
yea, no. that's just a dumb "max"
Maybe if you tested it in the middle of Antarctica.
 
4:56 AM
@Bob That's almost certainly TCase.
 
Bob
@bwDraco Seems to work pretty well.
@bwDraco yea, I know, just poking fun at the ambiguous wording
 
TCase is typically much lower (but more accurate) than TJunction.
 
I didnt get that, the first time i read it. ECC memory support has been missing in consumer motherboards for a long time. even if the chip supported it. last time i saw ecc support was when i was on a server motherboard. why they figured only servers could use it :-Phht is beyond me. a good consumer motherboard costs more than a cheap serverboard, so it is not justified that way either.
 
@JourneymanGeek Done.
 
5:14 AM
@Psycogeek excellent
@Psycogeek the advantages of ECC are minimal for most/many workloads.
and intel wants to product differentiate - you used to be able to throw a low end xeon into a consumer/desktop motherboard and now you can't
 
yea it (ecc) didnt do anything for me either, and i dont miss it.
but what about Cosmic Rays ? OMG
people are still applying knowledge from the 1970s about thier actual effect on things like bit flipping.
 
I guess in most cases one but of sixteen gigabits shouldn't matter
or 32 or 64
(since 4gb of ECC.... only makes sense with older older older machines)
 
Dog
Who removed my boobs
God moderation in here is so sexist
 
yea i was thinking about the quantity of fluff and garbage that could have 2-3 bit flips and nobody would even care. huge memory usage and pig programs. so i guess the pebble , and its tight programming would ?
 
heh
Neither gods nor kings... only man dog.
@Dog that was entirely random, and made no sense. Please try to make sense.
 
Dog
5:23 AM
Entirely random and nonsensical "penis" messages don't get removed...
 
@Dog the proper terminology is "Upper Frontals" nobody removed yours, it was just taken out of my face :-)
 
@Dog appeals to MOOOOOOOOOOOM don't work. If I see em, they'd go.
 
Dog
Plus posting images of men in swimwear is fine but posting images of women in swimwear get deleted.
 
Dog
Geeks are sexist. Just admit it.
 
5:24 AM
Seriously. Yeah, clearly the moderation here is sexist. Go post a meta post.
 
none of us were objectifying the men :-)
 
Dog
It's the whole geek industry
@Psycogeek I was!
 
@Dog then you should proceed to flag that so sexist display of , wait a minute . . . didnt we all come into this world without clothes?
 
Dog
But women objectifying men is totally fine because men aren't repressed and shit. Duck the patriarchy
 
Bob
@Psycogeek until the wrong bit gets flipped and your flibbits turn into mibbits and everything goes up in flames and the mossad comes knocking on your door
 
Dog
5:26 AM
!! Tell 34669489 pstew
 
I would be honored to be objectified as a man, not gonna happen this week.
 
Dog
Don't you wish your boyfriend was hot like him?
 
women who get objectified get mad about it, but still wont wear a burka :-)
 
Dog
5:28 AM
The man deserves a knighthood.
Oh wait....
 
That's about the only thing I agree with in this whole wierd thread of conversation.
 
@Dog ohh is that the hot guy your referring to? looks more like comedy than porn
 
Dog
Oh hey, he's British but lives in Brooklyn
@Psycogeek nobody said nothing about comedy porn
At least he didn't die in 2016 like all the other good guys
And gals
 
> <00:28:05> "[Kynn] Kynn": wow that's super nice of him, too!! I don't know how to thank either of you. I'm just floored by the generousity both of you have shown! Please relay my appreciation. I wish I had some way to repay you guys for all your time.
@Bob ^^ User #1 is impressed :)
 
5:32 AM
they all say that until you give them your paypal name to send the money to.
and no $2 does not "pay for all my time"
 
Bob
@allquixotic :D was (is?) a fun project
*pretends psycogeek didn't say anything*
 
pretends he is on one of those sites where they do pay then pretends he can even work the markup in the chat
 
Bob
honestly, money isn't even remotely a goal here
 
5:35 AM
Sometimes the work itself is its own pay
 
Bob
^
hm
wixedit hasn't been updated since 2011 :(
 
Dog
@Bob you can't pay the mortgage with "fun"
 
Bob
@allquixotic oh, I wonder if you can build the Windows version to delay-load DLLs
that should let you add a path to the DLL search path
 
comcasts wi-fi should be called wi-bother
i am the only one trying to use it, and as far as i can tell it is only interferance to to the rest of the wireless
why you do that? cause it costs nothing, and it gets advertised in all your connection apps :-)
 
Bob
5:53 AM
oooooooooooooh
@allquixotic how about nuget/oneget? :D
 
6:07 AM
 
6:21 AM
@Psycogeek I've had little trouble with TWCWiFi-Passpoint.
 
is there any tricks? i assume the tranciever is hanging off a power pole around here, although i have never actually located it
i am also wondering if it is intentionally blocking any longer downloads.
 
@Bob that boils down to a question of manipulating the MSVC linker from qmake, if we're talking about kynnaugh-cc.
@Bob clarify?
 
my phone modem used to work faster and more consistant than this , it is kinda nostalgic
hey remember when it used to take the whole day to DL a video, well you can have that again, with public access wi-fi
 
Bob
6:44 AM
@allquixotic oh, I was thinking an alternative to MSI, but that probably won't work as well as I'd hoped
I'm just trying to figure out how to package it "cleanly" :P
 
7:07 AM
welp looks like i missed some fun lol
ROFL
someones posted this around warwick
 
7:24 AM
lol wut
Can you tell i'm bored at work yet?
 
yes. they should also make a course for city planning, require all the politicians to take it
 
lol
Also, I'm pretty sure I wasn't out playing in the street when I was 7 o_O
 
7:45 AM
whoa, awesome
the Skylake Iris OpenGL graphics drivers on MacOS are finally high quality enough to fully support SWTOR, so I don't have to run Bootcamp or a Parallels VM to run SWTOR anymore \o/
on Broadwell Iris, they weren't properly implementing some required OpenGL 3.x extension that Wine / Crossover was expecting to be available and working
 
I love how the mountainous region of the UK doesn't get a snow warning
 

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