Discussion on question by claude chuber: Is it acceptable to quote a Nazi claim on Physics SE?

1:41 AM

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Q: Is it acceptable to quote a Nazi claim on Physics SE?

I have no intention being rude, and have been hesitating a long time before posting this question. The fact is that a user of the Physics SE, MAFIA36790, includes this quote in his public profile: "There will come a day, when all the lies will collapse under their own weight, & truth will again...

discussion

Kyle Kanos

Have you tried taking the more private route and asking him directly?

heather

Users may say what they wish in their profile.

dmckee

In the end profiles are the least policed content on the Stack Exchange network. It is possible to cross a line and draw moderator action, but "I don't like the person another user chose to quote." (a sentiment I share) isn't going to go far as a complaint about such content. Then there is the intense irony of that particular notion expressed by that particular person.

Kenshin

Agreed, I also think people should refrain from discussing any "nuclear" topics because of the atrocities that have come from this topic.

DanielSank

Whether or not this is a good question, it shouldn't be asked on physics meta. The broader issue here is whether it's ok to quote Nazi's on Stack Exchange profiles, and that belongs on the main meta. Furthermore, let's all note that the notion of "offensive" is too vague to be useful. We should center the discussion only on whether or not Nazi's may be quoted.

tpg2114

1:41 AM

I'm with @DanielSank on this one (mostly). I do think it's a fine topic here, particularly given the scientific advancements made during the era. It would be needlessly restrictive to ban all quotes or mention of Nazi's in legitimate discourse about science or physics. The USA landed on the moon because of the work done by von Braun, and it would be overly restrictive to say we could never mention him or quote him in answers about space flight/rocketry.

Norbert Schuch

@tpg2114 Sure, and the quote this is about is clearly about science.

tpg2114

@NorbertSchuch I'm addressing the titular question -- "Is it acceptable to quote a Nazi claim on Physics SE?" To which I say, as I've said in my other comments, that context matters. There cannot be a blanket yes or no and each instance needs to be judged in its own context. Just like quoting any other claim from anybody else. It's already been established elsehwere that profiles are free to do as they wish, so my comment does not address that. Only the titular question.

Norbert Schuch

@tpg2114 Noteworthily, I was unable to find a German version of the quote (at least nothing close to a literal translation), so it is even not clear what it exactly refers to.

@claudechuber Not sure whether this should be counted as success, but said user has removed the reference to Goebbels, as well as the link to their twitter account. (Now the quote is still there, so I'm not sure whether this should be seen at the user distancing themselves from the ideology behind it.)

user236048

@Norbert Schuch Thank you for the information. It find it nice, it shows that he feels concerned by what other people may feel. I wonder now if I should delete this question, what do you think? (I'm supposing that deleting a question deletes all the subsequent discussion, though I'm not sure of it).

Norbert Schuch

@claudechuber Or might think about him. Anyway. AFAIK you can only delete the question if there are no answers, but I might be wrong. Your judgement, but I somewhat agree with the sentiment that this is not a good place for such a discussion. (Certainly, I don't feel it would be a loss to the world if the discussion is gone.)

user236048

1:41 AM

You are right, it cannot be deleted. I'm unsure anyway if it should. I will likely edit my question when I find the appropriate way to do it.

Norbert Schuch

@claudechuber Well, you can always ask the moderators to delete it. (Though I guess it is unlikely they would.)

user236048

@Norbert Schuch : after thinking a bit, I won't ask, for due respect to all people who took the time to answer and comment. I have edited my question.

user116211

@claudechuber, I didn't want to respond here initially, because I think it was a storm over a cup of tea; I've talked to the mods and presented my view clearly there to them. Firstly, I had no intention to promote the concerned ideology or sentiment against some race by quoting his statement. Yes, I confess I found that interesting without judging any positive/negative context. I'm sorry if it offended someone; but just by quoting him, I'm reiterating, I'm not spreading any anti - feelings. Anyway, I've removed his name if that works. You could have simply contacted me [contd.]

user116211

if you felt any inconvenience, I would have removed it; don't take me wrong or have the notion that I'm promoting the concerned doomed ideology, which I have no intention at all. You can see there are varied quotes from different personalities. I should have checked the context of his quote before pasting it. Apologies for that.

user116211

As that of my Twitter account, yes I removed it for I don't want over speculation on just checking my account as @NorbertSchuch has done for I don't know how. This is actually annoying for imposing some blame by checking my Twitter account - I still have no idea. I used a German phrase for my username which happened to be followed by some German accounts. I don't even care who follows me there; I only use it to check news feed of sports and all that. [contd.]

user116211

1:41 AM

I don't want any unwanted and unnecessary fussing over my account; I don't get how that added of me spreading racism and hatred. That's why I removed it.

user116211

And yes @NorbertSchuch, I'm not distancing myself in any way; please don't over speculate anything. Days after showing this post, I've talked privately with the mods here as I deem I'm answerable to any action of mine here. I'm sorry if you concluded from this quote and my Twitter account (??) and my removing of the account, that I'm spreading hatred and racism.

user236048

@MAFIA36790 I understand your point of view, thank you for sharing it. Thank you also for removing the reference to Goebbels. You are surely right that I could have asked you directly. One reason I didn't is very silly: I don't know how to PM other users (typing "send private message" in the help center doesn't provide any answer - or at least I couldn't see it. I did find how to contact mods in the help center, but not other members.)

user116211

@claudechuber, yes, SE is not like FB or forum that you can privately converse with apart at the chatroom; you could just have left a comment beneath any of my posts. Anyway, if you insist, I can remove his quote; I just don't want over-speculation of me involving in believing the ideology and spreading racism. You have aired your grievance at the Meta; I have no problem with that.

Norbert Schuch

@MAFIA36790 I never said that you are spreading hatred and racism. I only argued in some earlier comments below that I felt you might well know what you were putting on your profile, unlike other very apologetic commenters. Now I only observed that you have removed some things from your profile (and communicated this to the OP); again, I don't say that this means you spread hatred or racism, I just said that this doesn't mean you distance yourself from it, and you seem to agree. So why are you so upset?

user116211

I'm not upset; being in academia, we often face arguments and debates; anyway, I just was feeling a bit uneasy when I saw you commented on my Twitter account. I don't even know why someone would follow me there; I've removed it; for I don't want any further argument hinging on my account there. I hope I could clear myself here. I'm saying again, I just found that quote interesting without trying to know the context of his quote and I'm really sorry for that. @NorbertSchuch

Norbert Schuch

1:41 AM

@MAFIA36790 The quote itself seems to me like an empty substrate which is basically asking for context. Regarding your twitter account, you linked it from your profile. If you put a link, people will follow it, especially if they want to get an idea who the person behind the quote is. (Now remembering the name on your twitter account, I have doubts you were completely unaware about the context of your quote, but that's a different story.)

user236048

@MAFIA36790 : I won't insist. Nobody else will be shocked anymore by seeing the explicit reference to Goebbels, which is the only thing I was concerned with. It was as somewhat unpleasant feeling to be a member of a community which could be seen by other people as promoting some background negative ideology (I'm not saying you had any intention of doing it, nore anybody else here). As you are a very active member, many people, including some potential new members, take a look to your profile, hence the concern.

user116211

@NorbertSchuch, I've no problem if someone wants to follow me in Twitter (although I don't know what they would get), but I was somewhat shocked when I saw you commented on the account implicitly pointing at me supporting the ideology (sorry, if you didn't mean that; but I thought you meant) - thus I removed the link. I would surely confess it was my fault not to check the context of the quote and thus being irresponsible - I'm very much sorry for that. But, I've really no inclination to that doomed ideology and no intention for promoting it at all.

user116211

Now remembering the name on your twitter account, I have doubts you were completely unaware about the context of your quote

- hmm, well, now I'm thinking I am unable to convince you. I said I used a German phrase for the username, but just by using that, I don't know how... Sorry for that again, if you think so. But I'm seeing I can't change your notion. Sorry again.

Norbert Schuch

@MAFIA36790 I have no intention following you on twitter; I just wanted to find more about you during this discussion and thus followed a link you provided. Also, all I said was "Well, their linked twitter profile gives some additional info." -- which I would stick to, since it was named after a famous German general from WW2 (though there was also a major of Stuttgart by the same name), which seems to suggest you have at least some familiarity with that period of history and might have known who Goebbels was.

@MAFIA36790 Sure, just a German phrase. Rommel.

user116211

@NorbertSchuch Wait, I'm not talking about you following me; I was saying I don't know why someone would follow me there; was not talking about you. I used the phrase which if I remember meant garrison in military. I never thought it was a name of a general. Yes, I'm aware of the history of that period. And yes, I used Rommel. But I have no intention to advocate the ideology at all.

user116211

1:41 AM

OH my God, now I'm seeing the problem; it's definitely not mine; uff; @NorbertSchuch; I'm speechless. I'm also seeing the account when googled. And no, it's not mine at all.

user116211

I'm going to report it to Facebook; I don't know what to say.

Norbert Schuch

Facebook doesn't delete such things.

user116211

I'm still going to report this; this is not mine; something is going wrong here. I'm really confused.

Loong

2:17 AM

@NorbertSchuch The German original is: "Die Lügen werden eines Tages in sich zusammenbrechen und über ihnen wieder die Wahrheit triumphieren." It is from the last letter to his stepson from about April 28, 1945.

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