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12:42 AM
@Soldarnal Whoops, I only saw this now. Yes, I'm totally fine with that. I'm sorry I failed to notice the broader usage in existing questions.
 
1:02 AM
Ok, I submitted a revision for the temple tag (awaiting review). Let me know if that works better, or feel free to edit.
 
1:25 AM
1
Q: What to do with answers that promote other websites?

Bruce AldermanAbout a week ago, a new user named Bible Student joined and supplied answers to the following questions: Who was the Beloved Disciple? Was the Beloved Disciple the author of the Fourth Gospel? Unfortunately, his answers don't include his answer to the questions. He has a website, TheDiscipleW...

 
 
7 hours later…
8:40 AM
Just posted a lengthy reply to this topic... that I spent far too much time on lol. Oh well, hope it helps: hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/questions/122/…
 
 
1 hour later…
9:56 AM
@digitaloday an occasional excellent answer beats 10 hurried ones in terms of benefit to the site, thank you for your effort on that.
@Ami the meta post is generating some good feedback - I suspect it will get a lot more too :-) on the subject of editing posts that came up yesterday, you may find this mSO post interesting:
8
Q: Should I edit or simply comment on an accepted answer I consider to be incomplete?

Code JockeyThough many questions on Meta Stack Overflow seem to come very close, I can't seem to find my question: Should I (or can I) edit another person's answer to another person's question that has been accepted and upvoted by a majority of voters, when I consider it to be an incomplete an...

and the other answer
 
 
8 hours later…
6:23 PM
2
Q: Who is an authority on what can be called a "Bible"?

ThePiachu(I'm not entirely sure whether this question is in scope of this SE, but this appears to be the SE closest to the issue) In Poland, there is a region called Silesia, which is inhabited by people speaking a distinct dialect, which can be quite different from the Polish language at times. One of t...

Off-topic?
 
 
2 hours later…
8:53 PM
@JackDouglas It skirts the edges. I took it as a translation question. But I tend to be very forgiving about questions from folks who don't seem too well informed about the subject. I like both of the answers it generated.
But if we start getting many of these sorts of posts, we should start closing them.
@digitaloday I really appreciate you jumping in with both feet. My MO is slow and steady, so I wouldn't worry about it too much. ;-)
 
9:35 PM
@JonEricson thanks for the input - I agree the answers are good (Q downvoted, A's upvoted) @Caleb, @Ray do you think we should leave this open or close it?
 
9:46 PM
no problem, I am responding to the interpolation question right now.
(I have been for a few hours)
I learned a lot in the past few hours on some of the back and forth arguments
i want to present both sides
 
10:17 PM
1
Q: What should be done with "point-of-view" portions of answers?

Jon EricsonIn thinking about points #2 and #3 of the meta-question about gender roles, I'm interested in getting some opinions on how we should handle pure-opinion sections of answers. In order to (I hope) separate this question from the tricky topic of gender roles, imagine if we got the following questio...

 
10:30 PM
@Jon are you in here?
 
@JackDouglas Yep.
 
Are you free for a few minutes to chat?
 
I think I've taken both sides of the issue at one point or another.
I think an answer that just has application is a poor one for the site.
 
First of all, thanks again for all your input on this site - it really has been tremendous to have your level of commitment especially at this stage.
 
And any question that primarily hopes for application is off-topic.
("First of all" usually means there's some "but" coming. ;-)
 
10:33 PM
Are we talking about this:
1
Q: What should be done with "point-of-view" portions of answers?

Jon EricsonIn thinking about points #2 and #3 of the meta-question about gender roles, I'm interested in getting some opinions on how we should handle pure-opinion sections of answers. In order to (I hope) separate this question from the tricky topic of gender roles, imagine if we got the following questio...

or this:
 
Yes.
 
-1
A: Gender roles on this site

Jon EricsonLet me take these points one at a time: The bigger problem with "Feminism" is that it's not really a Biblical concept. There might be support for or against the modern idea, but there is no way any Biblical text directly speaks to the issue anymore than they speak to operating an automobile, t...

 
The first.
 
great :-)
 
Did my update help?
 
10:35 PM
On this: "Nothing in the question implies an application, but when answering, I might want to include the following opinion:", I took you to mean an answer that was not entirely application but included some - have I understood that right?
 
Yeah. I want to make space for application in answers.
 
So the question on meta is to check that is agreed by the community?
ie that application in answers is permitted
 
Yes. I don't think it's possible (or desirable) to outlaw it, but I don't want to encourage pure point-of-view-type answers either.
 
@JonEricson (not really my line of enquiry btw - I genuinely mean what I said and I also appreciate your input on these issues)
 
We need to come up with a balance on that.
On "We can apply the principles behind the Biblical texts to modern life, but that's off-topic on this site." My meta-question is trying to get at that too.
 
10:40 PM
Generally speaking, 'On-topic' only applies to questions on SE IIUC
 
Ah. Yes, I agree.
 
so are you talking about something else - eg whether an answer is tangential to the question?
 
Just a moment. I need to sort out my thoughts.
 
sure ;-)
 
Do you think that my question was (or tended toward) being off-topic?
 
10:47 PM
@JonEricson which question?
 
Sorry. The original Deborah question.
I said in it "I've sometimes heard that Deborah was allowed to be a leader of Israel only because no man stepped up to the responsibility."
 
let me look again
ok, looked again, confirmed what I thought. Great question, firmly on-topic.
 
I updated my response to make it on topic as well ;)
 
I see your answer on my meta-question. I think that helps.
 
it seems clear to me that your question arises from the text, rather than from an idea that you went searching around for a Bible verse to attach to :-)
 
10:53 PM
@JackDouglas Ok. So the problem with Lance's answer, to me, is that it includes the loaded term "heresy". Without that, I think I have little problem with it.
Maybe I'
 
...that is the litmus test
 
d want the paragraph in question to include a little more Biblical support.
 
sorry, bad timing
 
@JackDouglas No problem. ;-)
Too bad the ' is so close to <Enter>!
@digitaloday Excellent addition. Thanks.
 
Are we asking if Lance's use of the word 'heresy' was offensive, or if the answer would have been improved if it joined the dots between the thinking a bit better?
 
10:58 PM
@Amichai: what do you think? Is the word "heresy" the main problem with the answer?
 
Ami
I definitely think the word "heresy" is a problem
 
From the point of view of someone asking the question, I don't think the paragraph added much. But I appreciate why Lance wrote it. In his place, I would probably have done the same.
 
@JackDouglas Sorry I'm late here, but I agree with @JonEricson on that one in that "it skirts the edges". I was tempted to close+comment on first sight, then had difficulty phrasing a comment that I was sure about, so dropped it. I agree with your analysis that it is a bad question that actually got some good answers.
 
I definitely think that the answer would have been improved if it joined the dots between the thinking a bit better. I might comment to that effect - if that had been the only problem, a comment is all that would be needed. We obviously need to decide if the word 'heresy' is offensive or not so mods can have a guideline for whether to take action.
 
Ami
Feminism is an interesting topic but its also a buzzword that detracts from the "hermeneutics" in Lance's answer
 
11:02 PM
Learning a lot about Stack Exchange just by listening. Are you guys all on staff (as in do you get compensated in any way SE), or just interested in bettering the community (or both!)?
 
@digitaloday ha ha :-)
 
None of us are on staff.
 
@Caleb can we come back to that one :-)
 
Ami
The word "feminism" means many different things to many different people in different cultures and different religions...that word has no place in the context of serious biblical exegesis.
 
@Ami I agree.
 
Ami
11:06 PM
I have a notion of what feminism could be/is, but I'm pretty sure its different than yours.
 
@Ami Unfortunately, there are plenty of scholars who do not agree.
 
That is very cool. I was just curious if I was the only one spending lots of time on here just because I want to ;)
 
Ami
@JonEricson, it also depends on the audience. The audience of this site is too broad to use the word, but in a more narrow context where the word is well defined, it may be fine to use.
 
It seems we all are geek-types also, I was originally lured to this site due to Stack Overflow lol
 
@digitaloday I'm very fortunate to have a job where I can spend time doing tangentially related things between batch jobs.
@Ami I guess the question is what do we do about it?
 
11:08 PM
Keeping all this in mind, the normal way of dealing with an answer you think has problems is downvote/comment (or just comment perhaps). Offensive behaviour OTOH needs mod action.
 
Personally, I voted up, but I won't accept the answer in the current state.
 
Ami
I recommend deleting the offensive paragraph and then consider accepting the answer.
 
@Ami can't be done
 
Ami
why not?
 
19
A: Should I edit or simply comment on an accepted answer I consider to be incomplete?

Matthew ReadNo. Never change the meaning of someone else's post. Editing is for clarity -- spelling and grammar fixes, improved wording and formatting, and so on -- apart from Community Wiki posts, where it can be used to add new information. Comments are for disagreeing, adding minor notes, and so on. ...

 
11:09 PM
@JonEricson me too lol
 
Ami
I am aware of this thread...I don't think deleting an offensive paragraph counts as changing the meaning of Lance's answer
 
If the post is genuinely offensive a mod needs to delete it rightaway and comment to the poster that they can fix and flag for undeletion if it is salvagable
 
@JackDouglas I guess we need a meta-question about "heresy".
 
@JonEricson I think we do. And perhaps one for 'feminism' too.
 
Ami
Maybe offensive is too strong a word but I think the paragraph is unnecessary, ambiguous and profoundly off topic.
And can be deleted without affecting the content of the answer
 
11:12 PM
@JackDouglas I'll take "heresy".
 
@Ami My opinion is that would be changing the content
@JonEricson thanks :-)
 
Ami
@JackDouglas, If I was able to demonstrate that the way I use "feminism" on a day to day basis is completely different from the way you use the word "feminism" and others use it in various ways, would you still think that the final paragraph adds to the content of the answer?
 
@Ami but I mostly agree with "unnecessary" and "ambiguous" at least. For me the solution is to engage with Lance and if that is not productive then to downvote.
 
I think that if Lance removed that one paragraph, it would be the best answer to the question. I'd even upvote it. Just sayin....
 
@digitaloday yup and if we could persuade him to do that... :-)
I will ask in a comment
@Ami what it adds is some application - it does so in a way that is open to misunderstanding - but I actually think most of us do understand Lance in the way he intended us to
despite his poor choice of words
 
Ami
11:21 PM
@JackDouglas, I'm sure that most people understand what Lance means, but I assure you that I don't...so my experience of his answer is very different from yours.
I can imagine what he means, but its only speculation and I certainly don't know firsthand
Maybe we can replace "feminism" with something concrete. Is Lance worried about woman who want to fill the role of clergymen?
Is "feminism" a synonym for immodesty or sexual promiscuity?
 
@Ami He means "male headship" rather than feminism. Or perhaps he is referring to the received wisdom (not actually true!) that feminism is always anti male-headship
 
Ami
What roles are some modern christian woman trying to attain for themselves, under the title of feminism?
 
I think it will be possible to persuade Lance to make that clear in his answer
@Ami equal authority
as opposed to "equal worth"
 
Ami
@JackDouglas, are there certain titles associated with that authority?
what titles are stake?
 
I think Lance is referring to the general idea rather than specific church roles - he referred to President Obama in a comment I deleted :-)
 
Ami
11:28 PM
I'm asking these questions as an outsider who has no intuition about what this "general idea" is...that's what I'm trying to understand here.
In my Jewish community there are woman who want the power to answer halachic (legal) questions, there are woman who want to be Rabbis...is there are an analogous situation in the Christian community?
 
@Ami Yes! This is spot on the reason I asked.
 
Ami
In other Jewish communities (communities that I'm in close contact with), there are woman who don't want to heckled for dressing immodestly
In other Jewish communities, woman are discriminated against...
that's why there is no single meaning for feminism where I come from
In certain contexts I'm a feminist, in others I'm not
 
0
Q: Is the word "heresy" an offensive word?

Jon EricsonIt seems from this question, its comments, answers, and chat, that the word "heresy" and any of its derivatives can be seen as offensive. We are a non-doctrinal site and so there's no such thing as orthodoxy here. Therefore, anyone addressing some point of view as a "heresy" is not making a val...

 
@Ami me too :-)
 
@StackExchange I made the best case I could. The vote should give us a clear view of what the majority of readers think: is "heresy" offensive or no.
 
Ami
11:39 PM
Above all, I would never judge or label a person, or risk using hurtful language against a woman who authentically feels disenfranchised or excluded from the Jewish community.
 
Please let me know (or edit yourself) if you think there are ways to improve the question.
 
Ami
@JonEricson, I agree with your answer here:
0
A: Gender roles on this site

Jon EricsonLet me take these points one at a time: The bigger problem with "Feminism" is that it's not really a Biblical concept. There might be support for or against the modern idea, but there is no way any Biblical text directly speaks to the issue anymore than they speak to operating an automobile, t...

heresy implies orthodoxy
I think your phrased it perfectly.
 
@Ami Oh! I suddenly understand you now! Applying the "heresy" label to "feminism" is really offensive without detailed context. Even then...
 
@JonEricson that's helped me understand too, thanks
 
Ami
"feminism," even without the "heresy" qualification, is usually a judgmental label applied to a group of outsiders/instigators. This scares me.
 
11:47 PM
@Ami At least in the US, women are often proud of being feminists. But it is a political dividing line with lots of unhelpful connotations.
@StackExchange I'd like to see how people respond to this question before getting into other potential sources of conflict.
 
Ami
I'm only now starting to understand why I reacted strongly to Lance's paragraph.
I feel that the words "heresy" and "feminism" are just two symptoms of an intolerant sentiment that comes across in that paragraph. I wouldn't stand for dismissive language like that in day-to-day conversation and I don't see any way it could possibly be tolerated on a site that wants to be a beacon of objective and rigorous textual analysis.
2
 
i am still debating my response to the heresy question
i don't consider it offensive (I sort of take pride in being called a heretic at times), yet I don't feel it is constructive for this site
 
@Ami Just so you know, I agree with you, but I think it's best now to wait for Lance to respond. I hope he will simply remove the paragraph.
 
Ami
okay
 

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