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7:00 AM
@Freedo if its a video, then shouldn't it be on youtube?
 
Bob
And that's an entirely different reason to transcode. Which you could have mentioned from the beginning.
Also, don't back up video like that if you care about quality.
They will forcibly transcode for you.
 
you want it to last 30 years, and yet want the "web" to back-it-up for you? All links die .
 
Bob
Old YT videos are now much worse than the originals after a number of codec changes.
You ever watch the original "leeroy jenkins" video? They completely stuffed up the audio during the transcoding to VP8/VP9.
 
I have everything backed to the cloud and my PC at same time. Very unlikely that i'll lose both at same time
 
Bob
7:01 AM
Back up the files as binary data. Never back up to a special video service, because they will transcode, and almost certainly to a lower quality to save space.
 
Can I make .VOB into mp4 but still using the same codecs?
 
30 years later we can almost guarentee one thing, wherever it was on the web , it likely wont be :-)
 
Bob
Nup. MKV probably would work.
But they'll probably transcode for you anyway.
 
My other option is leaving this on the CD which will be trash one day
 
yup delamination is inevitable
 
Bob
7:03 AM
@Freedo Just back up the files. Then you can play (or transcode) at your leisure when you want to watch them.
 
And on my experience Google Photos doesn't make videos worse. Even 1985 videos still look almost as the source before uploading
 
video quality back then was terrible ;p
 
How I'll watch them on my phone natively if they are as .VOB or other old format ?
 
Bob
Eh, if you'r personally happy, I can't stop you from doing what you want.
 
convert to play, not convert to archive
 
7:04 AM
In google photos I can watch it on TV, my phone or whatever I want
keeping the original file on my PC only, will give me no benefits like that
 
Bob
I'm telling you that transcoding will strictly lose information, and transcoding more times loses more information. Whether that's noticeable or not depends on you, your settings, and the source video. Whether that matters depends on you only.
 
So what you suggest to keep the original, and still play it on my TV and phone whenever I want ?
Like my mom, she doesn't use a PC, only her Iphone
she isn't likely to use a PC to watch the family videos at 80 either
 
Bob
Eh. Keep the original copy archived. Transcode to something (probably lower-quality to make it smaller) to play.
Transcoding transcoded files is bad. Transcoding the original to multiple formats over time is alright.
 
you could keep and keep upgrading the storage medium for the original "masters" then have anything from them made to watch on anything as desired.
 
Bob
If you don't have the space to keep the originals or back them up properly, feel free to transcode to something smaller, as long as you are aware that you are permanently losing information by doing so.
 
7:08 AM
OK so I keep the original, but I still can't easily play it on mobiles and TV, and when I do, I want the best quality possible and not a software that will assume I want lower quality to save space ( which is not a concern since this will be happening over the internet anyway )
*mobiles
 
Bob
That lost info is possibly not even visually noticeable.
 
@Freedo VLC would play it, and probably transcode, maybe even on the fly.
I DISTINCTLY remember there's an XKCD for this
 
Bob
@JourneymanGeek Does VLC do encoding now?
It'll decode and play just fine.
 
@Bob its abusable in all sorts of ways
 
Bob
MPC-HC, VLC, CCCP. Any of those would play it.
 
Bob
Encoding/transcoding, I'd personally go back to ffmpeg for better codec support. Otherwise, Adobe Media Encoder (cause that's what I have :P), which does hardware-accelerated encoding.
 
the only issue I have with software encoding is that I usually have no choice to choose the quality
 
@Bob I use an older version of handbrake with quicksync support
 
If I'm streaming to my TV over the internet I want the best quality possible and not save a few mb
 
Bob
@JourneymanGeek Can't do QSV on a P67 :\
 
7:12 AM
Like Plex.
 
Bob
@Freedo You have it backwards.
Software encoding/transcoding lets you change any encoder parameter you want, most of which will affect quality in some way.
 
@Bob I'm on ivy bridge. Not really seen a compelling reason to upgrade until I can afford the storage box
and new parts go into the gaming box, and older parts get handed down ;p
 
Bob
Hardware encoding tends to be fixed to a limited few quality profiles, because they're baked into the hardware.
@JourneymanGeek It's the chipset, not the CPU :P
 
@Bob really?
 
Bob
I have an iGPU, but no chipset support for it :\
 
7:13 AM
(Z77 here)
 
Bob
Eh, NVENC on a GTX1080 is fast enough.
@JourneymanGeek Yea, P67 has no iGPU support.
 
Ahhhh, right
 
Bob
Z68 does, H67 does...
 
I got a Z series for that reason ;p
H is one or the other. Z is both ;p
 
Bob
@JourneymanGeek It was only P6x that was gimped in that way.
First-gen Intel iGPU...
 
7:14 AM
Yeah
I was looking at them, and got delayed ;p
 
Bob
Second-gen (P7x) was fine.
@Freedo Not "a few"... the difference can be 4 GB vs 300 MB, or even more, and often not visually noticeable.
 
It's doesnt matter my internet is unlimited
 
Bob
...it's not a matter of data caps, it's a matter of transfer rates.
You don't want to wait forever for it to buffer.
 
It still doesn't matter my internet is good enough to stream Ultra-HD and I'll probably be capable of streaming 8k in 30 years from now
 
Bob
If you really really don't care about size, encode losslessly.
 
7:17 AM
Real uncompressed video, would choke about any bandwith :-)
 
Bob
It'll probably make a 10 min video reach into the terabytes (slight exaggeration?), but apparently that doesn't matter.
 
@Freedo my suggestion is to take one video, test 3-4 profiles, and see which one feels best
 
Bob
@Psycogeek Heh. I recorded 5 mins of 1080p and it was something like 20 GB :P
 
then keep the original safe ;p
 
We live in a weird time of Internet
Soon we will have much space than we can use, more quality than we can see, and more internet speed than we could use
 
7:19 AM
yea i think an hour of Uncompressed HD is like 1/2Tb Upload that to youtube :-)
 
Bob
1080*1920*30*60*10*4 = 150 GB for 10 mins of uncompressed 1080p@30fps, 32bpp video.
 
When mobiles phones start to have 1+ Tb and everything is 8k quality and internet speed is gbps nothing of that will matter
 
@Freedo right just the paying for it might become the problem.
 
If I make a hash of a video, and I upload this video to Google photos, and this video is downloaded back after their algorithm and I compare the hash. If they are the same, does that means the file hasn't been touched?
 
at this point, why bother uploading it ? ;p
They're certainly going to transcode it to store it
 
7:22 AM
yes if they compare as the same file data then the service did not transcode it.
 
lol I live in third world country and I have no problem paying for this. I'm actually surprised that 4k is not the standard for Internet right now
 
lol
Most people don't have 4k displays
hell on the channel, I think its me (2x!) and @Bob
and @Bob has the same model as one of my monitors
and even a 'cheap' 4k monitor is a pretty chunk of change
 
but everything being bought now is 4k
 
Which one is it? Would you recommend it?
 
7:24 AM
and people recycle their devices at like 3-4 years?
 
And what GFX card do I need to drive 3 of them? :P
 
Bob
It's somewhat biased towards iCloud, but assuming the technical info is accurate, they do transcode.
 
@OliverSalzburg Dell P2715Q if you want a great monitor. The second monitor is a crossover 289K (TN, but very impressive inputs).
@OliverSalzburg I drive 2 4k for non gaming use off a 980TI
 
and just because something is all 4K in pixels doesnt nessisarily set the overall quality. Take for example you can buy a $500 4k camera, and a $600,000 4k camera, and i am kinda doubting they have the same picture
 
Bob
@OliverSalzburg P2715Q, good for colour, not great for gaming.
Also, I can barely drive 60fps on most games with a GTX 1080 :P
 
7:25 AM
;p
 
Yeah, I hardly ever game. And when I do, it's hardcore casual all the way
 
Like I said, we are on the growing time of the Internet.
 
@OliverSalzburg for non gaming use, its lovely
(also I consider dell monitors to be the sensible choice)
 
420 EUR, not bad
 
like you said we are on another Throwing time for the tech gear, throw it all out again, and buy it anew.
 
7:26 AM
I'm still on 3 of those Korean 27"
 
Bob
@OliverSalzburg Were they 4k or 1440p?
 
After 8k we won't need more quality. After internet speeds of gbps we won't need more. And cheap storage anyway
 
And I'm having weird issues since I'm connecting them via DP
 
@OliverSalzburg my secondary monitor's a korean, tho TN.
@Bob 1440p/IPS
 
@Bob The latter
 
7:27 AM
I believe Google Photos does not touch any video up to 1080P
Since my source is not 1080P
 
@Psycogeek my previous monitors were 10 years and 6 years I think
 
@Freedo I don't need resolution to watch videos. I need desktop real estate
 
@OliverSalzburg you're going to be running scaled
so its more crisper text than more space over your 1440ps
 
@JourneymanGeek Why? Can't read anything otherwise?
 
@OliverSalzburg gets pretty damned tiny
 
Bob
7:28 AM
@Freedo Anyway. If you want to trancode to H.264/H.265, pick a CRF (23/28 default?). Bigger CRF number is lower quality/smaller size, and vice versa. So move it up/down till you can't tell a difference in quality anymore. Then step it down a couple steps (higher quality) to make sure.
 
I'm currently running at 150% UI scaling
 
Bob
There, that's about as good as you'll get while transcoding.
 
Could be a sweet investment
 
IMO it is
 
Bob
Even 150% needs a bit of squinting :P
 
7:29 AM
that and custom bias lighting has me spoilt.
 
Bob
And some games don't like DPI scaling (*looks at SR4*)
 
SR4 crashes if you look at it funny
and sometimes crashes you. Right into a bulkhead.
 
Bob
lol
 
They are only 340 EUR as a company expense. And I could sell the old screens. So, when you think about, I would be an idiot for not purchasing immediately!
 
Bob
7:30 AM
o.O
It was... $1000 AUD -_-
 
I paid about that much SGD ._.
 
Bob
Got Dell to lower it to 725 AUD, though :)
 
Bob
But that's still a lot more than 420 EUR :\
And it's only 10% GST. EU was 20% VAT, wasn't it?
 
I paid about 939 sgd
 
Bob
7:32 AM
@JourneymanGeek You also got it earlier :P
Dell tends to be pretty good about price-matching here.
 
(was my last year's birthday pressie to myself XD)
next year's probably the ODAC2 ._.
@Bob also if you're a dell corporate customer, they apparently have sweetheart pricing
 
@Bob 19% in .de
 
Bob
@JourneymanGeek Oh yea, account manager and all. Except when the guy goes on vacation and gets replaced by someone else.
 
Bob
I may or may not have ordered a $10k server at one point.
 
7:35 AM
I neither confirm nor deny looking up prices for dual xeon workstations....
 
Bob
@JourneymanGeek I think businesses get a 5% off code for general use, too.
But even as a consumer if you go to their live chat and ask for a better price they'll usually drop 5-10% off...
 
So I discovered that Google photos will accept backups in .mkv and not touch them unless they are over 1080p. My sources are not 1080-
1080p
 
i had dualies before they invented stuffing multiple cores, now i still want any one core to go 2X as fast.
 
so the best option is to convert it to .mkv and keep the original video / audio stream and then upload to google photos?
 
Bob
@Freedo Remember that you have no guarantee against future transcoding without warning by Google.
 
7:38 AM
I'm pretty sure they wouldn't do that without warning people. Unless they wanted everyone to flee their product
 
Does the P2715Q have a VESA mount connection?
The Amazon photos aren't optimal :P
 
Bob
@Freedo Wouldn't be the first time!
 
@Freedo everyone should have fleed google when they started the redirection BS. but we all rolled over and took it up the . . . oh wait i cant say that :-)
 
Bob
@OliverSalzburg 100mm
recessed though
it's inside the little thing the stand clips into
 
@Psycogeek Which redirection BS?
 
7:41 AM
@Freedo originally when you clicked a link on google it would go direct to the site, now everything is re-directed through goggle so they caan track every click.
 
Bob
@Freedo In case you still feel line transcoding, see chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/32522924#32522924
 
@OliverSalzburg ._. I don't believe I've checked. I LOVE the dell stand, other than the lack of vesa holes for rear mounting random crap that its not designed to mount
 
Bob
I'll be on mobile for a bit
@JourneymanGeek If you take the stand off, there's VESA holes under it
I just tried :P
 
ah
so good for @OliverSalzburg. Bad for me wanting to abuse it for bias lighting, or if you want to fix a NUC to the rear ;p
 
I think the Amazon price I got was from a scammer
Other sellers are 200€ more expensive
 
Bob
7:43 AM
o.O
 
I got it direct from Dell ;p
 
@OliverSalzburg ahh the china clone is just the same :-)
 
Bob
@OliverSalzburg Contact Dell, ask them if they can price-match the cheaper Amazon price :P
Seriously, it works pretty often.
Even if they won't match, they'll bring it down as much as they can.
 
Damn! Now I already reported the seller!
 
or ask for the Poor Persons Discount, 10% or $10 whichever is higher :-)
 
7:45 AM
I need the VESA mounts, because it's pretty hard to arrange 3 screens on my desk without them taking up all of the desk if I use the regular stands they come with
 
lol
>_>
@OliverSalzburg I have ... all of my desk taken up by 2 27 inch monitors ;p
 
what is VESA? 4 screws , just make sure they bolt on the other side of the pannel :-)
(you got a drill doncha)
 
@Psycogeek and the area under the holes is reinforced
(I have a bunch of improvised vesa compatible MDF 'plates' somewhere)
 
dell to vesa adapter :-)
 
@Psycogeek on my crappy korean monitor, the stand's a chunk of aluminium extrusion bolted to the body of the monitor, and has seperate vesa...
dell's "either the kickass 360 degrees + tilt stand OR vesa"
 
7:49 AM
So I did a few tests here. I made a mkv from a .VOB source and It was 442 MB, then I transcoded it to h264 with --very slow -constant quality 23 over the MKV and I got a 92 MB file
 
@JourneymanGeek It was pretty annoying before I got my mounts, because I also have my desk set pretty low and I could never get the screens to be at the high/position I want them at
Well, the stands on the Korean IPSs are shit though
 
@OliverSalzburg one of my monitor stands on something quite similar to a pile of books
 
@JourneymanGeek Been there ;D
 
@OliverSalzburg chunk of alumnium and a tempered glass plate?
 
and I can't see a difference. I transcoded lossy to another lossy and still looks nearly equal to the original source. It wasn't Ultra HD to start, but I see no difference
I guess I can trust the algorithms more than I thought
 
7:50 AM
amusingly, I'd have bought another dell if I'd not bought the second 4k when I just lost my job ;p
(retail therapy I guess ;p)
 
I don't know how but the mp4 look slighter better than the original MKV. How is that possible?
 
tho the crossover has 3x HDMI 2.0, DP
 
@OliverSalzburg the stands on soo many monitors are so bad, the brick and morter store had 5-6 of them broken already, on thier demo shelf.
 
@Psycogeek the ones on the koreans are either a hunk of plastic, or a hunk of metal with no adjustments...
 
Bob
@Freedo sometimes people think fuzzier looks better than pixellated or noisy. But you need to A/B blind test.
 
7:53 AM
I doubt anything could break the crossover stand
 
Bob
@OliverSalzburg The Dell stands are pretty good.
I can take a photo of the VESA mount later if you want.
Oh look, someone already has.
 
I'm pretty happy with the results. After all if I can get smaller file size, transparent quality, and Google photos together...why not ? I'll do a few more tests anyway
 
Bob
@JourneymanGeek Borderlands tonight?
 
@Bob yeah
 
most of my monitor stands go up and down , with the chair height :-) the ones that dont, had to have some sort of crap under them.
thats soo cheap, when it probably costs them another $12 to put a descent stand on it. then $40 extra for the shipping to AU :-)
 
8:01 AM
If I got good results from MKV to mp4, I believe source > mp4 will be even better. Thanks for the discussion guys!
Just one more question. H264 level 4.1 and profile High is pretty much supported anywhere right now right?
Like Iphone 6's and androids 6.0...and pretty much every Windows and linux thing right
 
I have two small wooden boxes under my crossover, adjusted the dell to fit that, then adjusted my chair for that
 
@Freedo yup back even before android 4 that was supported by software in android. even in windows XP supported by codecs when it became popular, dont know about linux and apple.
 
So I really have no reason to use anything other than level 4.1 and profile High for h264 unless I want to support ancient devices?
 
the "profile" is not a change in codec, but a quantity of data, so some slower usb2 sticks and cards might have issue based solely on the data rate.
 
a profile is a set of settings
 
Bob
8:08 AM
@Freedo vod to mkv should be a container change, not transcoding
Mkv is an container format only
It can contain h.264, amongst others
 
and some of these codecs have so many settings (if anyone looks or changes them enough) that it is possible to make videos that break in even the newer stuff, not suspecting that some person would be tweaking it that way.
I pity the people charged with supporting "everything" in thier players, as they are sure to have a weekly update as some person plays with all the settings.
 
This things are so complex
 
i can also percieve that fredos reality is that they will eventually drop support for some of the older codecs long times from now, just to concentrate on the new ones with 10+ crasy compression Techniques .
 
I wish we could all agree on only using one standard for music, video and everything else
and have a way to change it "within" the standard for when you want more quality, or smaller file and so on
but the standard it would still be the same, and could play a file encoded with the highest quality and the smallest file possible on the same device, using the same standard
 
8:20 AM
with video it is more like 40 :-)
 
except that this time every big player agree to stick to one standard. We will get there I believe
 
when it is all Owned by OmniCorp unlimited, and we all use thier propriatary web linking advertising codec :-)
 
like xmpp was for chat?
 
and installation of the codec puts 35 advertising malwares on your computer, you can spend the week tracking down and removing. Or you can buy the microtransaction free version from the OmniCorp store.
Then,,, Then you will all be happy to use MPEG1 :-)
 
9:02 AM
Morning all!
 
Bob
O.o they're moving Tesla cars inside the shopping centre... damn, they're quiet
 
hybrid and 'lectric cars are so quiet some people think they need an external speaker in them making combustion engine noises, so pedestrians dont ignore them. that would be a bit backwards.
you can imagine if they made a Noise law that cars have to make noise, that would be "Only in America" Get that V-8 sound for only $149.99
 
sorry bout last night, it sounded more amusing in my head - i guess the vodka didn't help!
 
rarely does, Dont Post Drunk :-)
 
yeah didn't realise,
was discussing online, and talking about translation errors
obviously if the whole discussion had been here it'd of made a lot less sense
 
course if your stoned , then it sounds more creative than incoherant :-)
and has the added advantage of , who really wants to type then anyways
we had joked about that back in the military service. How it was much better to drive stoned than drunk, because the stoned person is less likely to even get off the couch to begin with.
The drunk person though, knows they can still drive, until they run into something.
 
9:35 AM
thinks they can still drive
you know what, I remember once in holiday how I jumped into a swimmin pool after a single drink
that was scary enough to convince me never ever try driving after drinking
my body simply didn't work
 
@djsmiley2k WHAT DID YOU DO LAST NIGHT?
(I totally missed it)
 
Won on rocket league a lot and got slightly drunk.
 
ah ok
You hit the ballmer peak? ;p
 
dang this job is really improving your life JMG :-) think of all the stupid shi| your missing out on :-)
 
I made a comment about what is 'promised' to those who give their lives for Allah, maybe translated slightly incorrectly.
 
9:42 AM
here? ._.
Yeah at this point, its better I not know
 
@JourneymanGeek It was shortly before the main event, and nearly got flagged. A warning was given ...
 
ah yes
sigh
 
It was a busy night ...
 
We really need to clone me. ;p
It was
 
@JourneymanGeek lol. I'm doing my best to imitate you :)
 
9:49 AM
(I quietly deleted a bunch of things. Missed those ._.)
 
the main event?
 
@JourneymanGeek It might be worth deleting anyway ... someone might decide to flag later ...
 
@djsmiley2k don't ask. Don't look. There was no main event. This is not the event you were looking for. Move along.
@DavidPostill and if it gets accepted... weeeeel
 
@JourneymanGeek I'm sure there are auto flag reviewers just like the other kinds of bad reviews ...
 
this is like going out for a movie, and finding that someone had a party in your apartment and you're still finding used... things under the sofa, in the toilet, in the lights...
2
 
9:52 AM
@JourneymanGeek Yuck. I didn't want that image in my head right now, thanks ;p
<jmg>Who trashed my room? Own up now!</jmg> :)
 
10:04 AM
@DavidPostill I'd have considered those valid flags
 
@JourneymanGeek Hmm. I still find it hard where to draw the line - warn or flag. And which flag - mod or offensive?
 
R
Are you offended?
if not, mod
 
tbh my preferred way to deal with these is immediately and gently
I find a lot of the language people choose to use tends to be confrontational
Mind if I pick this apart?
 
@djsmiley2k I wasn't personally offended no. But NSFW could be offensive to others.
@JourneymanGeek Please do. We can all learn from it.
Back in 5 min
 
firstly, with respect to the user of many names...
it feels like a lot of the behaviours that result in drama is... an attempt to get attention
By actually engaging with it, you guys are encouraging it.
They can check in on the channel via transcripts to see what you say. If its directly offensive, flag it. If its annoying, just let a mod know quietly
Don't threaten to call a mod
 
10:14 AM
How do you do that btw
just flag it?
 
Well for me I let the person know the behaviour is not appropriate
 
@JourneymanGeek did you just say "Don't Feed The Trolls" :-)
 
@Psycogeek plausibly
But chat moderation is more nuanced
 
Again, sorry, it sounded funny in my head
 
I believe I did it with @DavidPostill some time back in fact, for a comment I felt was transphobic.
 
10:16 AM
at the time i would of edited it/removed it if i'd noticed the response, I only saw it this morning tho
 
Also, with chat moderation, I handle incidents not people.
@djsmiley2k Its taken care of. ;p
 
But if there's a pattern, my goal is to handle the pattern first
In my time here I've rarely used anything harder than a kick on a regular.
since, well, I try to treat you guys as adults ;p
So I go "hey, this is uncool" first
 
ahh adults, why everyone wants us to act like adults when kids have so much fun.
 
@Psycogeek kids don't have the bad habits us adults have ;p
and brb, need to feed the roomie
 
10:21 AM
I had a rousing game of fetch today with both dogs, it was the kind of fun that life was made for.
 
@JourneymanGeek What I forgot, at the time, was that, as a room owner, I could have trashed the offending messages. Would that have been an appropriate response (together with an uncool warning)?
 
10:37 AM
@DavidPostill I wouldn't call it a warning
I'd call it "being a civic mind person"
"Hey, some folk might find that offensive, and might flag it, you want me to get rid of it for you?"
You've gone from "censorship" to "helping" ;)
 
@JourneymanGeek I like that :)
 
That said as a mod I can afford to be very unconfrontational in public. I have mod messages to fall back on for low-drama yelling at people.
But I've used it... er... twice so far?
Well three times
(counting all the recycle clones as one. I need to mod message to suspend ;p)
 
021111111111111111111111111111111
732
..............23
..............................................................
 
hm
@djsmiley2k you ok dude?
You seem to be typing random numbers. You might have fallen asleep on your numpad, and wake up with a terrible case of waffleface.
2
 
Bob
@JourneymanGeek Or turned into a cat.
 
10:53 AM
I was informed catlike typing is more random
 
Hi everybody!
 
How's tricks?
 
Hi @Mokubai (hey, that rhymes!)
 
10:57 AM
Heard about the new job @JourneymanGeek, what you up to now then?
 
@Mokubai Quite a lot of moving and boredom
On the bright side, one of the other departments would totally poach me if I'm still working there when they expand
 
Lifting and shifting job, or getting stuff set up?
 
lol
Both?
A good chunk of my workday the past week has been "disconnect PC at <location>" then wait for a (another?) contractor to move the rather heavy/ornate desk for it out and replace it with an identical one
then reconnect and test
oh and label the ethernet cables... with tape.
 
@JourneymanGeek Well that's a good start, jobs are more likely to be filled internally as they can at least see if you're a good worker.
 
@Mokubai kinda
 
11:00 AM
@JourneymanGeek There's another way to label cables? o.O
 
@JourneymanGeek This seems amazingly stupid. And a waste of everybodies time.
 
@JourneymanGeek Well, most places have a policy of fully advertising jobs and being impartial, but a known good worker who has experience with all the other staff and is going to take very little time to get up to speed with processes and procedures is surely going to be the preferred choice...
 
Have you asked why they are swapping the identical desks?
 
Anyway, is it a long way from where you live @JourneymanGeek? I know dogs can run some distance but I didn't think people liked them driving cars...
 
11:20 AM
@Mokubai 30 minutes by train
@DavidPostill yes.
something about the locks being different
but... they could just... replace the locks
 
@JourneymanGeek Locks are usually replaceable...
 
@Mokubai the locks are installed after the desks are in place
 
@JourneymanGeek headdesk
 
anyway, pay's better than my last job, and the contract is shortish
 
@JourneymanGeek Could be worse, much walking to/from train?
 
11:23 AM
@Mokubai 30 minutes including the walk
total of ONE stop on one line, switch, 3 stops.
 
That's not bad, it'd take me 20 minutes just to get to a local station here and we don't exactly have a "comprehensive" network.
Last time our place thought of moving I worked out it'd take me about 20 minutes to station, 30-40 minutes on train and another 20 on the other side.
 
@Mokubai I walk to the nearest 'tube' station, one stop to switch over to the line to work
on my way back I take the bus from the interchange, ironically to avoid congestion
 
Don't think I'd like living in a city large enough to have a tube network. I fecking hate getting around London
 
@Mokubai singapore's small but dense
 
The UK is a bit dense, but in the other sense of the word "dense"
 
11:32 AM
@Mokubai When I lived in London it used to take more than 1 hour to travel ~10 miles from Kew to Old Street - BR to Waterloo then Tube ...
 
basically I'm going from the western outside of the business district, to the southeastern outside of it
 

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