Ubuntu Regulators

5:59 AM

The queue is not that long as it could. The main problem is that someone started to VTC old questions. I just skip them in reviews. Can mods ask to stop it? — Pilot6 13 hours ago

edwinksl

6:09 AM

yeah...

zach was asking about it too

Zanna

what'd he say?

edwinksl

in Ask Ubuntu General Room, 6 hours ago, by Zacharee1

OK WHO is going back and flagging old questions as OT?

and read onwards from there

Zanna

Clearly I need to leave a comment saying "fixed by reboot" or something

edwinksl

6:24 AM

yeah not many click on questions to see if the answer is along the lines of rebooting/upgrading/typos

Zanna

Yeah, need to make it easier. Trying to vtc only as last resort, but quite a lot of the self-answers are like that... thanks for finding that from the transcript :)

I just kicked to posts out of the CV queue by editing them

edwinksl

6:40 AM

nice :)

Zanna

6:57 AM

just for calibration purposes, as I am not sure how far I am straying from usual standards in evaluating these old answers, does this seem like an upvotable answer to you (anyone?) or does it need more explanation to be useful? askubuntu.com/questions/331724/…

edwinksl

the answer is pretty unclear :/

not sure what "changing layout of my disk" means

Zanna

yeah I think so too, skipping this card sigh

edwinksl

still an active user though

can comment and ask for clarification

Zanna

good call! I need to do more of that

edwinksl

:D

Zanna

7:25 AM

594 / 70 / 81

that makes 745 - 25% of the first 1000 cards archived already

edwinksl

👍👍👍

Zanna

7:45 AM

Can I flag that as NAA? askubuntu.com/a/359407/527764

edwinksl

that could warrant the infamous VLQ flag

i view this answer as unsalvageable because i have no idea what the "driver" is

worse than a LOA. at least in LOA, i can visit the link and improve the answer

Zanna

sigh there's no way I'm gonna use that flag. I'm scared to flag anything these days...

edwinksl

i will do it

i will just raise a custom flag actually

Zanna

idk, I think it would die very fast in the queue

edwinksl

there isn't even a VLQ flag for me to raise, huh?

Zanna

7:51 AM

it went?

edwinksl

is it because the post is too old?

Zanna

hmm maybe the flag no longer exists - that's good

edwinksl

lol

let me check

oh looks like it is gone

i can't even VLQ your latest answer :p

Zanna

I just found one I could flag as VLQ

this askubuntu.com/a/828534/527764 (but it is NAA)

@edwinksl lol that answer is not my best

edwinksl

so... when can i vlq an answer?

Zanna

7:56 AM

We could do a lot of testing to figure that out...

edwinksl

heh

anyway i already raised a custom flag and wrote a nice pulitzer-worthy novel to explain why the post should be nuked

Zanna

lol I will record that comment on the card

edwinksl

oh no, i got quoted!

Zanna

I appreciate your flag-raising courage <3

edwinksl

i doubt you will get banned from flagging anytime soon lol

sometimes you gotta take the plunge :p

Zanna

8:09 AM

When I screw up I become super cautious

m00am

9:11 AM

@edwinksl I am new to this particular part of SE. What is the problem with flagging VLQ? Don't want to step on anyone's toes.

edwinksl

@m00am there is a nice meta post here meta.askubuntu.com/questions/15888/how-do-i-flag-correctly :D

m00am

@edwinksl Thanks :) Exactly what I was looking for.

edwinksl

9:27 AM

@m00am no problem, welcome to AU!

jokerdino

10:39 AM

@Zanna You folks are doing the right thing and don't let such comments prevent you from doing it. You have my fullest backing and if they have problems reviewing it, they can skip it instead of whatever it is that they are doing.

Zanna

ahh that makes me feel a lot better <3

jokerdino

I don't understand why people are troubled by this. Others are doing what they aren't doing / neglected and this bothers them how?

Zanna

I also find it strange. Maybe they think it's not correct to do.

jokerdino

shrug Add a comment explaining why you are VTC in the future just so they don't have to think for more than 5 seconds.

Zanna

Yes I will do that :) And fortunately there is a core of reviewers (the folks who tirelessly review it seems) who are supporting and voting

jokerdino

11:25 AM

Thank you and thanks to them too.

Zanna

11:42 AM

& thank you for making it a pleasure

@Anwar we may be waiting a while for an answer to your comment here askubuntu.com/questions/335326/how-to-undo-apt-actions seems user isn't very active... maybe I will try testing this thing if it still exists

jokerdino

I am thinking of a way to make it easier for everyone (read: me) to quickly final review/archive cards.

One idea so far has been to create two new lists with your names on it where you move cards that you have reviewed and the other person or me can do a second review and archive it afterwards.

Now, it's your turn to tell me how and why I am an idiot.

Anwar

12:31 PM

I can't see why is it easier to archive from two lists instead of one?

@Zanna I'd appreciate if you try this.

Zanna

That seems like a good idea... what could we do in that case if we disagree with the action taken by someone else?

Anwar

but the answer seems to me not a good answer.

Zanna

One thing I think about is that someone else will know what to do with the pending ones...

Anwar

Oh! I understood now. ignore the first comment

Zanna

(I think personally I would rather have a look at them before the pile becomes too huge actually, like, try to look at 5 a day together to see if they could be resolved)

Anwar

12:35 PM

I think it's a good idea

jokerdino

@Anwar ah yeah all right. I'll see what I can do about it.

Anwar

If two persons disagree, that can go to pending list

That's what you wanted ? @jokerdino

triple review?

Zanna

@jokerdino I think that's the comment @Anwar wants to be ignored

jokerdino

No, I just wanted double review where second person may be one of you. Not just me.

Zanna

I understood the card would be considered super reviewed if any two had seen it, from the proposal

Anwar

12:39 PM

sounds good

jokerdino

In case of disagreements, I think we should move it to pending.

@Zanna yes, agreed.

Anwar

It'll remove the requirement of a third review when both of us agreed on a card?

jokerdino

yes.

Anwar

good Idea. I'd say

jokerdino

That's great then. Whew.

Anwar

12:42 PM

can it be done without creating another list? by commenting on card?

for example, if I review a card, I'll add a label

jokerdino

Let me see what features are available in Trello.

Zanna

I'm scared, but maybe I will do a better job like that, if dumping responsibility on mods is not possible XD

Anwar

We can try to restrict ourselves to those question only where actions are obvious.

jokerdino

Yes, labels are a possibility. You can label cards that you handle and any one of us can filter it and review it.

Anwar

(bit ot) I think the trello link can be put in the room info _I->

jokerdino

12:47 PM

room topic changed to Ubuntu Regulators: Report evil (or more likely, dupe) questions here for closure. Have a look on how to help us keep the site clean: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/160960/… Instructions for abandoned questions here: docs.google.com/document/d/… Trello board - trello.com/b/N4tGabC2/ask-ubuntu-abandoned-questions-cleanup (no tags)

Trello board

4

Anwar

So, what are we doing. lists or labels?

jokerdino

Whichever you prefer.

Anwar

If we create two lists, one will review and move it to others list?

jokerdino

You move it under your list.

It's the list of things you have reviewed.

Anwar

oh. so other one second review the list and either archive or move to pending?

jokerdino

12:53 PM

yeah, that's the idea so far.

Anwar

lists will be easier then

Zanna

I think we should try lists too, see how it works

jokerdino

OK, let's do both.

Zanna

@jokerdino I'll wait for you to suggest a moment then. Today, I'll be around for the next 2.5 hours

both?

I meant too as in I also think that, however, perhaps I said something I didn't mean again

jokerdino

I created two lists.

Zanna

12:58 PM

So you did, I am swapping like crazy ^_^

jokerdino

I haven't created any labels but if lists is not working, we can try that.

Anwar

ok

jokerdino

Any future cards that you review go under your respective letter.

Zanna

Some other things to clear up before we start like this: maybe if I find a post someone else already upvoted, and I agree with the upvote, then archive it?

Anwar

I think we can have a general guideline for default actions. A flow chart (for reference)

Zanna

1:00 PM

because I am still finding some that we did already before Trello

jokerdino

Put it under your list and comment that you didn't do it?

@Anwar sure.

Zanna

OK, that's cool

Hehe reviewed from A to Z

and where does it go after reviewed by A?

Anwar

I think we need another label "Left comment...waiting"

Zanna

when I check it, I archive it, or move to pending

Anwar

yes

jokerdino

1:04 PM

yes

Zanna

@Anwar Yes maybe. If I do that, I'm adding myself to the card

jokerdino

@Anwar "Waiting" label?

or Waiting list.

Zanna

Maybe the list makes more sense, unless it's annoying to have many lists

Anwar

list will do also

Zanna

is the reviewed list now going to be obsolete when emptied?

Anwar

1:06 PM

for those questions where we left comment thinking OP is active

jokerdino

@Zanna yes

will be archived.

Zanna

great, I think I've got it all.

one more thing - some of the posts we already VTC, have already been closed, should we archive, or still check?

jokerdino

Leave the current Reviewed list. I will handle it.

Anwar

brb

Zanna

I may be mistyping here, but it seems like this ppa doesn't exist askubuntu.com/questions/335326/how-to-undo-apt-actions

@jokerdino I didn't mean fiddling with the reviewed list, I meant cards in to be reviewed, because there are still some I find that have already been acted on somehow (this morning I archived 2 or 3 immediately because you had closed or deleted them yourself)

jokerdino

1:11 PM

If you think I did the right thing, archive it. Otherwise, move it to under your list.

@Zanna yes, I am getting 404

Zanna

Sorry I'm still talking rubbish it seems, whether I think anything I am going to archive it if I see that you did something!

I mean cases where the Q has been closed by 5 voters

@jokerdino what to do then? murder the question?

jokerdino

@Zanna ah, I suppose still move it under your list so I can review.

Zanna

@jokerdino (the only thing I am going to think is ahh so that is what should have been done)

@jokerdino got it, I just wanted to check what you want

ping ping ping

jokerdino

lol

@Zanna actually not sure

Zanna

it's a good Q, maybe we should upvote it!

jokerdino

1:17 PM

True

Anwar

which one?

apt-undo?

Zanna

yes

Anwar

I also thought it was a complete troll because I couldn't find that ppa

but let me do another search

nah. there are some blog posts about that PPA

but sill no launchpad page

Zanna

I am stuck on this card!

Anwar

this page gives same answer referring this 404 page

you can skip that card

My opinion is we can't verify if apt-undo works or even exists. I'll say to nuke the post entirely

Zanna

1:26 PM

someone downvoted here, did you flag too? askubuntu.com/questions/335812/…

@Anwar I would agree if the Q weren't interesting, but it is!

Anwar

yes. flagged that answer

We can ask again in that case?

Zanna

So, so be tedious, we can say that is NAA??

Anwar

I think even if we say that NAA (not doing foo when asked), mods might disagree. because it needs time to verify

Zanna

I mean this "Fortunately some "Ubuntu Base" updates solved the problem, but I do not know exactly which ones."

Anwar

oh. sorry

I flagged that one as NAA already. let me check the status

Zanna

1:33 PM

the other one is clearly useless, and so should be deleted, I think, but how do we make that happen?

Anwar

it was marked helpful!

Zanna

nice, but the answer is still there

Anwar

yes. that's surprising!

found that apt-undo

github.com/Sepero/Apt-Undo

Zanna

well done!

Anwar

I have an idea

for keyboard shortcuts

Zanna

1:39 PM

that apt undo script looks... ill advised

Anwar

you tested?

Zanna

no I'm looking at it and I don't want to test it, looks insecure and possibly dangerous

@jokerdino phew, saw that, archived the card, thanks for ending the agonising

Anwar

why do you think so?

Zanna

knee-jerk reaction I have when I see these words:

sudo chmod -R 0777

Anwar

badly written script may be. I'll test

Anyway. it wasn't a good answer.

Zanna

1:50 PM

thanks for testing, I am a coward it seems, although I did test one answer I gave by doing cd /etc/skel && chmod 644 .* that was quite brave...

Anwar

You aren't. Why someone could be considered a coward if he/she doesn't want to test something suspicious ?

Zanna

:) <3

Anwar

That q is deleted

apt-undo does nothing

I tested by installing dpkg -i sl. then apt-undo undo. nothing happened

also it's just a wrapper for aptitude i think. poorly written

Zanna

horribly written

Anwar

I won't upvote that answer.

Zanna

2:00 PM

I still don't know what to do with it then

This seems to be poorly written answer that could probably be salvaged by changing it more or less completely... askubuntu.com/a/336508/527764 should I edit this one, or OP's answer?

Anwar

I don't know either. but I can't upvote that one

Zanna

I think I'll just edit OP's answer, it will make more sense that way...

Anwar

the folder was created by them and now they're asking what's that folder!!

Zanna

I think it was created by the Adobe app

Anwar

I think it was created by synaptic

they somehow created that folder while running synaptic and that was owned by root.

Zanna

2:07 PM

anyway they only had to chown it correctly

Anwar

what's about the other answer?

Zanna

seems like a mess

and if I fix it, OP's answer will look like a weird reply to it

I think they tried that answer and got confused

I edited OP's answer now

Anwar

OK

@Zanna Oh, the idea was, since your keyboard shortcut will first move the card in "Reviewed by A" to reach in your list, I think moving the "To be reviewed" list in middle will do a good think.

left side or right?

Zanna

Haha I don't mind really, but if I have a choice, since I read LtR, I feel more comfortable moving to the right when done

Anwar

done

Zanna

2:21 PM

:)

Anwar

we were talking about a guideline

Zanna

you mean the flowchart type thing you mentioned?

Anwar

yes. or anything where we have default actions for at least some types of answers

For example, when OP wrote an answer but isn't sure how problem get resolved. Or when OP tried a new Ubuntu and reverted back to old one which was working... etc

Zanna

yes, good, can we hash that out here & now? at least make a list of things we are not sure about?

Anwar

Yes. I just moved a card to Pending list because OP wasn't sure which action resolved the problem. They wrote 4-5 probable actions.

Zanna

2:31 PM

I think it's not possible to make a completely watertight guide that never fails, every situation is different, but I think there are some things that could be clarified in general, like that

Anwar

Yes. I think so

talking about this question

Zanna

- reverted/upgraded to another version
- it was a broken hardware issue
- OP isn't sure what fixed it, but apparently it didn't go away on its own

@Anwar lol I think I could upvote that, since at least something in there worked ^_^

brb

Anwar

oh. idk. not sure

- OP forgot to plug cable
- OP thought their OS was 32bit
- OP tried burning Disc without putting a disc

these cases should have a default action

Zanna

@Anwar no repro

maybe not to 32-bit, but not plugging cable or inserting disc is no-repro, surely?

where OP is not sure which out of several answers fixed it, but we the reviewer know how to fix it, we can just edit with the correct answer, right?

Anwar

2:47 PM

yes. if we can

Zanna

like the chown one, that was easy

Anwar

yeah

apt-undo should be a -1

ok. it should stay in pending

Zanna

Yeah I agree that in theory we should downvote it, it just feels wrong, if OP is not going to fix, we can't fix it either, it's completely useless etc, it should go

Anwar

did you upvote this? askubuntu.com/questions/339863/…

jokerdino

me

Anwar

2:57 PM

which folder?

should Nuke ~/.config and ~/.local :D

jokerdino

He deleted .config.

Anwar

Tank for a mosquito :D

jokerdino

I think that's an answer.

Anwar

yeah. upvoted

Zanna

what if scenario...

Anwar

3:09 PM

then they found the theme in gnome-looks.org ? askubuntu.com/a/343320/61218 sounds like a comment to the other answer

Zanna

we downvote & flag NAA & the card gets archived, but the answer does not get deleted

could be a problem ^

jokerdino

they will come back in next data query

Zanna

the data query was broken last week, so we used old data...

Anwar

broken? how?

Zanna

the csv only had numbers

so we used the old csv

because we need the titles

Anwar

3:11 PM

we didn't have titles in last csv?

jokerdino

let's hope they are fixed this time around.

Zanna

no we didn't have the titles, it was just a list of numbers

Anwar

oh. hope that'll be fixed.

Zanna

in any case, using the updated query could mess us up, because our pending cards and stuff waiting in CV queue etc will still be in it

we might end up with recurring cards?

Anwar

we have still 4k Questions to go. we can think about them later?

jokerdino

3:14 PM

Hm, I think we have enough cards to last another week.

If this week's data query is not fixed, I will ping the person responsible and see what we can do.

Zanna

do you think it's not a big deal if the cards get duplicated?

jokerdino

No, we will only import new cards below the previous bookmark.

Which I believe was a .tk question.

Zanna

I already cut from there and uploaded it, but if we use updated query, then everything will change

jokerdino

I am thinking..

Anwar

can we have QID of questions processed from Trello?

jokerdino

3:24 PM

Query sorts QID.

Zanna

ah...

@Anwar how do you mean?

Anwar

I was asking if it's possible

Zanna

yes, but I don't know what you mean, sorry

jokerdino

It might be possible to get what numbers are still on board.

And we already know which of the numbers we originally put on board.

That way, we can arrive at the archived numbers and remove them from future imports if needed.

Zanna

oh I see

the archive numbers can't be searched?

jokerdino

3:29 PM

@Zanna I can't tell how we might end up with duplicated cards.

Zanna

maybe I'm dreaming...

jokerdino

maybe I am not thinking hard enough.

Anwar

same here.

Zanna

It's surely me... Here's the story in my head...

the query is updated, and the Qs we fixed are gone, but the pending ones and any that slipped through the net (flagged NAA but not deleted, for example) are still found by the query

I use the new query to make a new list, and we import that to make new cards

pending-from-before cards may appear as new cards

jokerdino

ah, but we are only going to handle the cards that are below the tk question.

Let me check if QId are sorted asc.

Zanna

3:32 PM

but in the new query, I thought the tk Q could be anywhere, and all bets are off

but you said the Qs are sorted by Qid, so it should be OK?

Anwar

if the query is sorted, the .tk question would be somewhere between 0 to 1k. we can start after that?

jokerdino

it looks sorted based on current query data.

Zanna

@Anwar this is how I cut the text at the tk question....

./QRtrim | sed -n '/fonts\ for\ Perl\/Tk/,/Default\ F\ key\ keyboard/p' > QueryTrim.csv

so the number does not matter, I am delimiting with the text

QRtrim is the modified script...

sed  '{
       s/"{//
       s/}"//
       s/^"//
       /,\r/{N;/\n.*title.*:\s/{s/,\r\n.*title.*:\s/\t/}}
       s/""//g
       s/^\s\+//
       /^\s*$/d
       s/^id:\ //
       s/\\//g
       s/^/http:\/\/askubuntu.com\/questions\//
}' QueryR*

jokerdino

> ORDER BY q.Id ASC

Data query sorts it.

Anwar

yeah! \o/

Zanna

3:37 PM

it's alright then

sorry for the false alarm

jokerdino

But if in case it doesn't sort it, let's run sort and then do the magic after tk question.

Zanna

I should have sorted it, because if we sort it this time, and it wasn't sorted before it may not be the same

I should have thought of this

this is easy to test ^_^

Anwar

- OP wanted to upgrade a new Ubuntu, but failed. Reinstalled older one.

what's the default action?

jokerdino

VTC as no repro

Leave the answer as ref and comment when VTC.

Zanna

zanna@monster:~/Downloads$ diff Query3.csv Querytest
zanna@monster:~/Downloads$

it is sorted & everything is OK

jokerdino

3:43 PM

{
"id": 131440,
"title": "Sound Card HP Beats Edition ENVY 14 - Codec: IDT 92HD81B1X5"
}

CSV contains that data.

right now?

yeah

it's been fixed then

but downloading it only outputs 131440.

Zanna

only one question?

jokerdino

3:44 PM

No, it only shows id of every question.

Zanna

oh yeah sorry that's what I mean

jokerdino

Pulling CSV data from URL to Gspreadsheet gives me that set of info.

but downloading CSV gives me only ID.

Zanna

when I downloaded the old one I got the ""overquoted json"" as above

jokerdino

=importData("http://data.stackexchange.com/askubuntu/csv/59620")

I used that in Google Spreadsheet.

Zanna

hang on...

ok I can import from that, but the carriage returns end up in a different place

awesome! thank you!

gtg to work now

jokerdino

3:53 PM

did it work?

cya!

Anwar

you know what?

that works in Libreoffice too!

jokerdino

wow

Zanna

@jokerdino it works yeah, I was able to get all the data as a text file so I can clean it

jokerdino

you are becoming quite a wiz.

Zanna

I will have to change my multiline pattern but it's not an issue

@jokerdino I didn't do anything, you just told me how to do that !

This is making me happy :)

jokerdino

4:00 PM

You are too humble.

Zanna

<333

Anwar

another git-all :)

another +10 for me :D i think

lol

bbl

jokerdino

food time

Zanna

4:36 PM

@Anwar excellent :)

... returning to my first thought then, after that circle, what about cards we archive having flagged NAA, but the A is not deleted? They will be in the new query, but before out cut-off point

jokerdino

Yes, maybe we can do a final sweep of them after we go through the entire set?

Zanna

From the archives?

jokerdino

No, from the data query.

After we finish the entire 5000, we can do a final sweep of anything that is left.

Zanna

Oh yes, we should do that anyway of course, you're quite right

I will try to stop worrying about the pending pile too!

jokerdino

Yeah, when you realize they have been there for several years, a couple more months won't hurt too much.