The Nineteenth Byte

@orlp Yeah, I didn't count some messages in there.

Because the pokemon thing was an isolated incident.

Aha! Two bytes off!

I guess I'm really just competing with myself. :(

@DrGreenEggsandIronMan Nial, 2 bytes: []. Example:

@DrGreenEggsandIronMan according to Martin that's half the fun of the site

4:09 PM

    A:='Hello, World'
Hello, World
     [A]
+------------+
|Hello, World|
+------------+

Alternatively, the string constant may be passed directly, like ['Hello'].

@mınxomaτ ಠ_ಠ uses builtin.

@DrGreenEggsandIronMan Well, [] is not a "boxing" operation.

it's the create list operator.

A database-ish array literal.

Drawing something as a box is Nials natural output for lists.

Huh. Technically, that's invalid cause of the "+"s.

@NathanMerrill Wow. That's an awesome answer.

yeah it is.

I've pretty much 180'd since that answer

(on my opinion on the matter)

@DrGreenEggsandIronMan That's how you draw boxes.

4:17 PM

I've been really feeling the same way recently now that V is competetive enough that I can occasionally tie/beat other golfing languages.

Martin Ender

@Zgarb there is no built-in to give you a list from 0 or 1 to N or N-1, is there?

@DrGreenEggsandIronMan Pyth, 20 bytes: J*+4lz\-Jjjz*2d*2\|J

It makes the site over 9000 times more fun when you get determined to beat another answer with a similar byte count, expecially if they are also really competitive.

Oh, no +s eh

orlp

people

we need more challenges

4:19 PM

@quartata See? That's just not how to draw boxes :D

@mınxomaτ J, 1 byte: {. Example:

   {'hello world'
┌───────────┐
│hello world│
└───────────┘

@LeakyNun If the console supports box drawing characters, Nial will use these.

@mınxomaτ but mine is one byte shorter than yours

@LeakyNun So was quartatas. Still all three answers are invalid.

Adding the + characters would actually add 4 bytes to my answer

4:22 PM

Here I'll do a CG one just for you

The new p makes box drawing pretty easy

@quartata \o/

You should teach me cg.

@DrGreenEggsandIronMan Anymore CMC?

@mınxomaτ although tbf, it is a CMC that I put less than 30 seconds in to writing.

Oh shit, I forgot to add a length input modifier

oops

you know, notepad++ is really quite impressive

4:24 PM

@DrGreenEggsandIronMan That's why I thought "draw a box" was sufficient.

I'm editing a 27 meg file

and I have a language syntax turned on, and I can delete/undo/scroll just fine

@NathanMerrill That's Scintilla that's impressive here, not NP++

Does Python sprintf have %n?

@mınxomaτ what does NP++ put on top of scintilla?

@NathanMerrill The UI. The Scintilla API is extremely comprehensive and a Scintilla object on it's own could already be used as an editor.

As is done in e.g. SciTe.

4:26 PM

does scintilla have tabs?

@LeakyNun Given an integer N in [0, 9] and a positive integer x, output every positive integer up to x that doesn't have an "N" in its string representation

@NathanMerrill Not visually, but the tab contents are kept inside Scintilla buffers.

@DrGreenEggsandIronMan testcase

@mınxomaτ so, if I were to switch to scintilla, I'd have to switch between buffers?

Ok, I've not been in the chat today and it looks like something blew up. Is everything alright now?

4:28 PM

also, is automatic saving of text documents (as a backup) part of scintilla?

@Sherlock9 Just the usual trash

@LeakyNun N = 1, x = 23 Output: 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 20 22

The 23 is optional.

@DrGreenEggsandIronMan Jelly, 6 bytes: RDfÐḟḌ

@NathanMerrill No, Scintilla is an object (like an edit or button control). To experience a barebones Scintilla editor, try SciTe. NP++ is SciTe on steroids (adding more UI features and a plugin host).

Imagine Scintilla like an iframe.

@LeakyNun damn

4:29 PM

@DrGreenEggsandIronMan Alternatively: RDf¥Ðḟ

That's pretty comprehensive:

Scintilla (software)

Scintilla is a free open source library that provides a text editing component function, with an emphasis on advanced features for source code editing. SciTE (cross-platform, developed by the same author), Geany (cross-platform), Notepad++ (Windows), Programmer's Notepad (Windows) and Notepad2 (Windows) are examples of standalone text editors based on Scintilla. == Features == Scintilla supports many features to make code editing easier in addition to syntax highlighting. The highlighting method allows the use of different fonts, colors, styles and background colors, and is not limited to fixed...

@quartata Sigh, this is why, even when I tell bad puns, I try not to go for the low-hanging fruit. One should add something to the conversation, you know?

@Zgarb Does Grime have logical XOR?

@mınxomaτ thanks for the info :)

@DrGreenEggsandIronMan your turn

4:32 PM

halp vim is slower than tf2

huh nvm

Optimizer

you were trying to quit it?

its not slow.. it just won't happen.

Hrm Python doesn't have %n :/

I'll have to think of something more creative

@Optimizer haha, i know vim

@quartata %n?

just editor commands were insanely slow

4:34 PM

@LeakyNun sorry, just a sec

@Dennis As in the format specifier

@quartata what is it supposed to do?

%n takes the number of bytes "written" at that point and stores it in a variable

Huh. I don't think I've ever seen/used that before.

It's not used often since if used incorrectly can open up security holes

But it would be helpful in this case

4:38 PM

I have three Sandbox posts that I would like to post soon: meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/9714/47581 meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/9739/47581 meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/9738/47581

Do we really not have a fastest code primality test? codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/primes+fastest-code

also, is it just me, or do you guys like printf statements? I always prefer inline string creation

Anyone have any comments, suggestions or corrections?

printf can do some things that are difficult without it.

Or at least long. Very long.

besides tables, I'm not sure what

4:40 PM

In some languages (cough C cough), it's the only sensible way.

@MartinEnder Try r.

How strange: my Vim solution to Alphabet Triangle worked at work, but not on my laptop. :<

@quartata Not currently, but maybe it should!

@Dennis well, sure. but in the ideal language, I don't think I'd include printf

For some reason, on this laptop, "aY copies the line to both "" and "a

Is that like, a Vim option? o_O

I can’t seem to Google it either

4:41 PM

@NathanMerrill So how would you print a table in that language?

likely functions that would convert numbers into strings using various rules

similar to to_date(int,"mm/dd/yy")

C++ gets by without printf, for some twisted interpretation of “get by”.

but the average user doesn't need to print tables. It's an assignment in CS1, and then gets used once every 5 years

Meh, if I have a rectangular layout of integers, floats and string, a single call to printf avoids oh-so-many calls to various formatting functions (pad, inspect, truncate, etc.). That sounds far from ideal to me.

because sensed persons use C++?

Martin Ender

4:44 PM

@Zgarb I must be blind

std::cout << std::left << std::setfill('.') << std::setw(12) << std::please << std::send << std::help;

@NathanMerrill I'm probably not the average user, but I use it every day for nicely formatted code golf test suites.

true, it probably varies a lot from user to user

@Dennis my biggest complaint is that it separates the arguments from the string, and with large number of arguments, it becomes tough to identify what goes where

@MartinEnder r has funny semantics with nested arrays. I forget how it works exactly though.

Nathan has a point, though!

4:45 PM

@Zgarb Might be helpful in a few situations

Makes it a little less "pure" obviously

I think it could save bytes in certain situations though

Back in like, the 1980s, printing ASCII tables was most of what people did in C.

jolf has a builtin for that :3

Because all you had was, well, a 1980s printer, and you wanted your numeric analysis values or whatever on a nice sheet of paper.

TIL in cmder deleting a chinese character visually delete 2 chars but in reality only 1 char is deleted

@quartata I don't think it does. XOR is still just a standard boolean function.

4:48 PM

@Zgarb Well yeah but the standard definition of Boolean grammars doesn't include XOR

Just conjunction and negation

@LeakyNun shoot. I just realized V is missing a huge feature. :/ it should be é1ÀñYpñçb/d (13 bytes) but that doesn't work.

@DrGreenEggsandIronMan alright

@DrGreenEggsandIronMan I'm missing features all over the place :P

Working on a few right now

@NathanMerrill That's a tad annoying, yeah. printf has other advantages though. Since the formatting string is fixed, the call to printf can be precompiled, making it quite efficient. Julia, e.g., does this; @printf is a macro rather than a regular function.

@Dennis what does "precompiled" mean? it basically turns it into a bunch of string appends?

because you can't assume you have the values beforehand

4:50 PM

@TùxCräftîñg surrogates?

A: In Julia, why is @printf a macro instead of a function?

68

Taking a variable number of arguments is not a problem for normal Julia functions [1]. @printf is a macro so that it can parse and interpret the format string at compile time and generate custom code for that specific format string. People may not realize that C's printf function re-parses and re...

ғᴏɴᴛ ᴘʀᴏʙʟᴇᴍ :3

that doesn't really explain exactly what it does, but I'm going to assume it converts it into something like "string "+int_to_str($var)+" str"

(omg spoiler on my new esolang)

@quartata I'm not too attached to the definition. It doesn't include containment either, but Grime has # for that. Internal consistency is more important for me.

4:53 PM

@Dennis Thank you :)

@NathanMerrill Yeah, but doing that from a user function uses immutable strings, which is rather inefficient for concatenation.

@Dennis how would it doing using mutable strings if it doesn't know length of the output of int_to_str?

I don't know. I just like printf, ok? :P

Java optimizes things like string += other_string into using a StringBuilder (mutable string) but it does so extremely poorly usually (i.e in for loops it creates a new instance each iteration)

I usually use printf for that as a result

depends though

@Dennis sorry, I wasn't trying to attack printf :)

4:59 PM

@TùxCräftîñg That's what lots of PPCG user names look like on mobile.

@quartata I didn't realize java did optimizations like that.

@NathanMerrill It does in a few cases

@Dennis somewhat annoyingly :/

@quartata the funny thing is that the only time I would really use string += other, is in a loop

Iff this message reaches thirty stars, I will make my name ASCII-only.

32

:p

let's get going

@NathanMerrill Which is where the optimization grossly fails

5:00 PM

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ you're saying you'll never change it to ASCII-only if we don't star it?

what power we have

@quartata Well, it's (mostly) backwards compatible, so I could still use the less golfy version of the same function. But it would add 2 or 3 bytes.

@NathanMerrill I think that's the point

^

@DrGreenEggsandIronMan CG is backwards compatible with Bubblegum but that doesn't really help

I wish I had a cool language to be backwards compatible with

@EʀɪᴋᴛʜᴇGᴏʟғᴇʀ I get that you see f l o g, but c'mon, that was really random. ._. — Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ 8 secs ago

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

5:03 PM

@quartata well, bubblegum doesn't really have functions, so...

New Sandboxed Posts

0

ASCII Art converter see ASCII Art on Esolangs Your task is to take input of a brainf*** program and output its equivalent ASCII art program. Your challenge: You may not use the following symbols in your program: \ / - | _ # Standard loopholes not allowed...

why does it seem like Eʀɪᴋ ᴛʜᴇ Gᴏʟғᴇʀ is a source of trouble in comments :/

What did he do now

look up

Q: Count the rectangles in a diagonal grid

The backwards compatible version doesn't work either :(

New Main Posts

5:06 PM

3

As a follow-up to this challenge, we now want to count the number of rectangles in grid with r rows and c columns where there is a line crossing through every diagonal of a square in the grid. Now, we are still counting the the same rectangles as before, but this time we must also include rectang...

code-golf

Woah. I have an SO answer with 5 points. I've never gotten more than 3 before. :D

Just, one, tip: Stop. Being. So. Serious. At. All. You. Are. Overly. Too. Much. Serious. — Eʀɪᴋ ᴛʜᴇ Gᴏʟғᴇʀ 1 min ago

-.- slay me

it's not even a valid sentence without the periods

> Builtins that solve this are not allowed.

rip mathematica

betseg

Mathematica? More like Builtinica!

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ I don't like to point fingers like this really, but this is possibly the highest-quality comment I've ever seen:

@LeakyNun Please don't make 2 comments instead of 1. You are replying to 1 comment with 2 comments, and that's called spamming. — Eʀɪᴋ ᴛʜᴇ Gᴏʟғᴇʀ Jul 25 at 14:52

Anyways

@DrGreenEggsandIronMan I've never seen new answers these days with more than 2, that's pretty impressive actually

5:11 PM

I'd say this is:

@LeakyNun Yet it is tagged code-golf, and catalogs need to have a byte count. Also, post-dating languages are usually allowed in catalogs. — Eʀɪᴋ ᴛʜᴇ Gᴏʟғᴇʀ Jul 25 at 9:43

would it be a bad idea to post this comment? :p my judgement isn't the best it could be

Don't even bother

Don't feed him

Just let the mods clean it up

okay

I already flagged it all

oh, thanks

right. "don't feed the trolls" >_<

cleanup on aisle eleven

12

5:15 PM

merci

I'm so happy I didn't get elected mod. I think I would crack trying to keep this chatroom and comments under control

4

I appreciate the janitorial duties of our mods even more now

4

@quartata wait, did you run?

@DrGreenEggsandIronMan yes

quit in the primaries

I would have ran, but I was at like 1.5k when the elections happened. <_<

@Dennis haha

5:17 PM

Dec 11 '15 at 3:14, by Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Nov 4 at 15:33, by Geobits

They grow up so fast...

Haha, check this one: codegolf.stackexchange.com/posts/86149/revisions

@quartata thanks! I'm really happy about it since that answer + docs rep was finally enough to get me into the 4 digits.

halp because of syntactic tabs are 4 spaces

Revision 3, 4 and 5

@DrGreenEggsandIronMan Docs rep makes it pretty easy :P

5:18 PM

@Adnan that's some high quality editing right there.

@DrGreenEggsandIronMan lol I'm still at like 300 or 400

@DrGreenEggsandIronMan Hahaha

@quartata ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I've only gotten like 50-60.

Marcus S

hmm -- challenge seems familiar

hey, does the userscript have "sort by score"?

5:22 PM

Yeah.

fine, I'm caving. what's the url?

nevermind, found it

So how hard is it, really, to build a PC?

not

define "build"

@ArtOfCode From scratch: Pretty hard. From parts? Not so much.

5:26 PM

if you're just connecting parts, its pretty easy

@ArtOfCode I have heard from friend that it's a lot easier than people think it is

Have Google by your side and you'll be fine.

@NathanMerrill ninja#d

Unless it's from scratch

@ArtOfCode not very. I've done it 2 or 3 times and I think it's a blast.

5:27 PM

Yeah, the parts are on their way. Just debating how much I'm going to hate myself after building the thing :)

What parts?

@ArtOfCode it's like lego

oooh, the "propose challenge" is nice

@ArtOfCode Like any software project, you'll never be completely satisfied with the result :D

@DrGreenEggsandIronMan compoota parts. Let me find a list...

5:28 PM

@mınxomaτ idk, I'm pretty happy with my PC.

hmmm...is there a way for a userscript to add CSS before the page has fully loaded?

@NathanMerrill idts, but that would be a cool thing to have

hmmm, there's a @run-at

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

@DrGreenEggsandIronMan them parts

New Sandboxed Posts

0

Print an Alphabet Square code-golfstringkolmogorov-complexity This is the output:AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH...

5:32 PM

@NathanMerrill use @run-at document-start - just make sure to run your JS on page ready

right, but I'm trying to figure when it runs

aka, does the <head> element exist at that time

Q: A newly discovered number: bleen!

When the document starts loading

document-start injects as fast as possible. You can't guarantee if that's before <head> or not, but it will always be before <body>.

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

we need to be able to give negative bounty amounts

New Main Posts

0

"The Nobel Prize in mathematics was awarded to a California professor who has discovered a new number! The number is bleen, which he claims belongs between 6 and 7." --George Carlin In this challenge, you will print all Integers, inclusive, within the given input range. Print numbers ascending...

code-golf number

-1 -> 0 -> 1 -> 2 -> 1 -> 2

what is that net upvote fluctuation

too controversial

5:38 PM

@Leaky Can my Alphabet Triangle output start with an additional newline?

@Lynn nope

Alrighty

If I ain't said it then I ain't allowed it.

@ArtOfCode Nice! What made you go with an AMD cpu?

@DrGreenEggsandIronMan 6 cores vs 2 for the equivalent i3

Downgoat

5:39 PM

@NewMainPosts i thought this said bleet instead of bleen and I got excited for a second :(

3

The Intel has slightly better per-core performance, but not significantly and I do a lot of stuff that's heavy on multiprocessing.

let's build the alphabet PYRAMID, here's a layout

bah, I don't think what I want is possible

@NathanMerrill what are you trying to do? I'll see if I can find a way.

I'm trying to figure out how to add CSS before the page is loaded

5:41 PM

I seem to be responsible for a fair chunk of mod userscripts

the document-start is what I want

@NathanMerrill But?

zyabin101

@ArtOfCode You can also putt the list up on pcpartpicker.com :3

but if I don't have a guarantee that the <head> is there, then I can't add a style too it

@zyabin101 AMD CPU's aren't listed

zyabin101

5:41 PM

@_@

@NathanMerrill why do you need the head?

@miles Related.

Go with JS, add to document.styleSheets

oooh, cool

davidwalsh.name/add-rules-stylesheets <- useful blog about it

5:43 PM

@LeakyNun oh my it's the alphabet pyramid but it's the decaying remnants after a millenia

@NathanMerrill My ambitious goal is to get it all done today. I plan on implementing permalinks, getting it working in production, parsing some more days/weeks of transcripts, enabling JavaScript execution, and making the database available for download. In that order.

@miles then how print it?

I don't have a language to print 3d things

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

@El'endiaStarman wow

New Sandboxed Posts

0

Print an Alphabet Striper code-golfstringkolmogorov-complexity This is the output:ABCDEFGHIJKLM BCDEFGHIJKLMN CDEFGHIJKLMNO DEFGHIJKLMNOP EFGHIJKLMNOPQ FGHIJKLMNOPQR GHIJKLMNOPQRS HIJKLMNOPQRST IJKLMNOPQRSTU JKLMNOPQRSTUV KLMNOPQRSTUVW LMNOPQRSTUVWX MNOPQRSTUVWXY NOPQRSTUVWXYZOutput to STDOUT. ...

another alphabet challenge?

5:44 PM

@NathanMerrill I already have SQL execution working.

@LeakyNun u: 65 + ([,.~[,.[,~[,])/ i. _26 in J, just do a reduce on a border-pad function

zyabin101

@ArtOfCode pcpartpicker.com/product/PnxfrH/amd-cpu-fd6300wmhkbox

@NathanMerrill I think the level of spam has gone down in general, but what's also happened is that we got several more new, less-mature users who are now producing the vast majority of noise.

@zyabin101 why could I not find that

@ArtOfCode does window exist at document-start?

5:45 PM

Meh, wouldn't have saved me any money

@miles nice

@NathanMerrill Yeah, all your regular JS stuff will be there

sweet

@LeakyNun it was a joke challenge too since I too am bored of alphabet challenges

The JS engine is preloaded, I believe, so the constant methods will be loaded as soon as you open the browser and won't be removed until it closes.

The stuff that relies on the document will obviously not be there until the relevant part of the document is, but document.styleSheets is constant.

It just gets added to when more stylesheets get parsed.

5:47 PM

does tampermonkey load jquery by default?

because there's some jquery code here, but I don't see a dependency

@miles CMC: do the challenge currently in sandbox, AKA this:

meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/9747/48934

@NathanMerrill no

@LeakyNun VTC as duplicate

you can either add a require header, or a callback to loading the script

@DrGreenEggsandIronMan does not apply in CMC

codegolf.stackexchange.com/users

5:49 PM

@LeakyNun that's the same as the tabula challenge except 13 isntead of 26 I think

I'm the third in this quarter

@miles you also don't need the mod

CMC: Given an array representing the number of votes for each option in a straw poll, output the percentage of votes for each option.

@DrGreenEggsandIronMan can output as decimal?

For example [2 1] should output [66.6 33.3]

@LeakyNun the percentage in decimal. (The % is not needed)

@LeakyNun well I got u:65+(+/&i.<:)14 since that last row was missing, and edited for off by 1

5:51 PM

@miles alright

@DrGreenEggsandIronMan Jelly, 6 bytes: ÷S×100

(Yes, the main part only took me 2 bytes and formatting took me 4 bytes)

@LeakyNun I forgot how freakishly efficient that language is.

@DrGreenEggsandIronMan literally: divide (each) by sum ["each" because automatically vectorize]

100 is <weird j>2.

@Dennis ??

@LeakyNun ȷ2

5:54 PM

÷S×ȷ2

On mobile, so I can't type it. Jelly's 1e2.

@Lynn oh, right, forgot that

There should probably be one-byte 100.

In matl it's seven bytes: matl.tryitonline.net/#code=dHMvMTAwKg&input=WzEgMiAzXQ

@Lynn that only works when no input is given

5:55 PM

I mean, there is, but there basically isn’t

Yes

Which is rare

@Dennis its absence from both the atoms and the quicks made me forgot it

CMC: eat a delicious chocolate muffin.

I win.

Business Cat

No fair

I’m eating paprika-flavoured crisps.

<- Peanut butter crackers!

5:56 PM

<- is hungry

Business Cat

<- also hungry

You guys are making me hungry. And I'm eating right now.

@Lynn ooooh

That sounds pretty good

Talk of food is automatically hungry-making.

in JS, I can call a function before its declared, right?

5:57 PM

@ArtOfCode I was already hungry so

(declared using function funcName())

@NathanMerrill as long as it will have been declared when the call is executed, yes

er, no

func(4);
function func(val){};

5:58 PM

@NathanMerrill procedural? That'll give you a TypeError.

@NathanMerrill: developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Web/JavaScript/Reference/…

Line 1, TypeError: func is not a method

or something