@JoshPetrie I was planning on commenting, but 2 years old on an account with no rep, didn't seem like it would reach him. Thanks Josh, I really appreciate it

I've just been seeing a lot of "Community" bumped questions that seem difficult to really do anything that helps the original asker and the questions on them are usually... not terrible, but still considerably less than helpful

Also, @JoshPetrie, is there a way to rescind a flag, I put an off-topic flag on a question that seemed like it was a C# WPF question unrelated to game dev, but saw a Unity tag in it and realized I had flagged it in error, it hasn't been declined yet after quite some time

^^^ In that context, what is the definition of awkward?

@JoshPetrie For loops are a pretty standard syntax

^

e.g. "awkward-looking code"

haha Sorry Josh, meant to reply to the original question, but yes

Using for at all is already almost awkward

This is one of the cases where "If it's stupid and it works, it's not stupid." does not hold true, this is just stupid.

Putting more than one statement into any of the arguments of the for construct is just nasty. Please draw the line somewhere near while (ConditionWithSideEffects());

anyone need a sprite?

@Tyyppi_77 OK. Thanks! :)

@JoshPetrie OK. Thanks! :)

I'm honestly really scared when people ask questions like that

You should be able to innately sense the awkwardness of code based on how much extra effort it takes to read and understand it.

@MickLH To be honest, it's a fair question when you get started

@JoshPetrie Oh okay, so would it get declined when the answer is accepted or does some reviewer have it waiting in his queue?

@MickLH Sowwy! My question was about the definition of that word in that context.

@JoshPetrie Sorry for the waste of time, I'll be a bit more cautious about reading over all of the tags and not just the question

@PaulVargas Don't be sorry lol, just understand that it's a grey area that's technically subjective

It's completely about comfort and nothing technical

@MattJensJensen Don't worry about it, we all make mistakes :)

@Tyyppi_77 Can you please not be purposely rude to me every chance you get? I don't know what you want from me.

@AlexandreVaillancourt Thanks mate, your comment was pretty much the first comment that actually got me to figure out this site's rules and contribute a bit

@MattJensJensen Which comment?

@AlexandreVaillancourt Around when I started actively trying to contribute to this site, your first comment was something along the lines of "Don't answer off-topic questions." and that stuck with me to not be an idiot and learn the guidelines and see how people should contribute without causing more pain than they're worth

I comment a lot, and half of them should never have been written :P

@MattJensJensen Ah, right!

@AlexandreVaillancourt To be honest I thought you were kind of a jerk at first, but once I got over my ego I learned that you were a pretty cool dude

Everyone in this community has been nothing but great to me

oooooh burnnnnnn @nathan

ssssssss dat supa hot fiyah!

@MattJensJensen Yeah; that's the part of the comments I should never write. They sometimes tend to be snarky, but I'm glad you got over it!

@AlexandreVaillancourt Eh, I understand now why you wrote it, answering off-topic questions ruins the quality and value of the community here

it sucks

hard.

Art style looks 200% from TF2

Looks like Rust kind of.

Waste of money

@Tyyppi_77 You need to put a ring on that joke already.

free for commercial u se

That said, it just seems to be a game that people made to make money off the survival hype

@MattJensJensen you mean, cheap gourad shading? lol

@MattJensJensen Yeah, answering off-topic/too-broad questions rewards a bad behaviour :)

this is my next game, you are this deranged man that creates a sock puppet and makes it go on adventures

@MickLH Let's be honest, valve took it a step past that, but not much more

Starbound out of Early Access in 90 minutes!

@Jon 11/10 would play

lol that was the joke, they did like a cheap knock off of TF2 style

It's 20% of a 200% TF2 style

@AlexandreVaillancourt Not only that, it robs people the skill of research and learning for themselves

@MattJensJensen everyone knows my game doesn't even have a release date planned yet so the survival hype isn't even real, just people being impatient wishing it could happen faster but not being psychic enough to know they just need to give me money to actually speed it up

@MattJensJensen Only a part of them. I guess some really have no clue of where to start, and starting game dev is hard. But yeah, the others don't try hard enough before asking!

@AlexandreVaillancourt wanna play on a server?

I'll set it up and we can play together

@Jon Eventually sure!

it is the same game multiplayer

than it is single

yeah, I don't know how they manage the savegames though... is it per server or is the progress saved locally?

Starbound: Terraria + FTL?

Not criticism, general curiosity

@Tyyppi_77 Also, RIPOFF meme because so many people called your game broforce ripoff?

Dunno, I did not play either of them!

save is tored on server

It sucks mate, some people won't see your game for what it really is, but that's just kind of how the public can be with first impressions

also kinda... nvm

@Jon kk!

i will host on starbound.jgallant.com

Also, anyone here tried Arma 3: Apex?

@Jon Is that going to be on a machine you host at home?

yeah

Kk!

ok, domain setup -- port forwarding setup on both routers

will take time for the DNS to propogate to the server ip

There is a high risk of having it loaded with irrelevant content...

@JoshPetrie I'm glad I'm not the only one then, lol

I feel like I'm waiting for it to make sense, then I'll jump in where I can :P

@JoshPetrie Most projects have terrible documentation so their header files are usually where I go first

@JoshPetrie That's kind of what I mean, SO Documentation is trying to fix something that in most cases a lot of people don't even use out of habit

@MattJensJensen but they don't use it because it's broken lol

@MickLH But header files are sufficient for autogenerated docs with important notes, and when the API in question has a specification, everything is clear

For OpenGL and Vulkan their specs have always been great documentation when the header files fail

lol I've never resorted to a header file for OpenGL docs, they are great!

OpenGL docs are basically my goal for ideal docs

OpenVR docs are so out of date I just go directly to source, OpenAL docs.. you got me there, OpenAL docs have been helpful

Straight up, function, meaning of each argument, valid classes of argument sets, all possible failure cases, mathematical definition of function results, it's perfect

Ideally that's what a header file should detail (IMHO)

lol my programming language isn't done yet, you're asking too much

You're building a programming language?

Mick is the guy behind TempleOS

I was for some years but I've had less and less time for hobby projects, I had to choose just one to focus on and I picked gamedev

@MattJensJensen github.com/micklh/Lazy here's the "latest" version (aka least tested and least features)

I should explain wtf is going on in case anyone tries to contribute lol, mostly nothing is there... or maybe I should just throw all the previous versions into a folder called "crap"

It's a strongly typed low-level functional programming language pretending to be a weakly typed high-level imperative language :P

There's substantial work here, there are definitely things I like about it

Why did you set out to build it, what was the ethos behind it?

There's like, less than 10% of the work there

I have sooooo much more code on my hard drive related to that

but I wouldn't want anyone to work off the hacky proof of concept type garbage

@MattJensJensen Mainly I want a convenient language, with a working optimizer. If I can write better code than it, it's broken.

@MickLH Hmm, certainly a daunting task, but worthwhile

I just beat my head against cachegrind until I'm happy

So instead of explaining "how" to get the value, it symbolically analyses the possible program flow and defines each output variable with a long formula, then finds an implementation strategy to get the desired bits of output with least effort

The idea is that you explain intuitively, copy as much shit as you want, compute as much extra data as necessary to have it all make sense algorithmically

Hmm I wish I understood the difference between that and how LLVM uses SSA Form

I'm not very deep into compiler optimization

I'm just taking it to the extreme, and bending the language here and there to make analysis go smoother

Your compiler would probably hate how I program

fun features: numeric types are arbitrary precision including irrationals and transcendentals by default, everything is pass-by-value but there are reference values, array and map types are native to the language, everything is non-nullable by default, "templates" and "auto" as C++ guys know them are merged into one thing so effectively you can use auto parameters as function inputs and return auto from a function that might return different data types in different situations, etc

oh... you might have mixed feelings about this: forgetting to manage memory is not an error, it's how you enable the garbage collector :P

I'm glad you're doing something different with it

I do have mixed feelings about a lot of that, but I think it's important to follow your vision with it

also I totally ripped off the "unsafe" paradigm from C# for mixing managed and unmanaged code

My mixed feelings come from the fact I was completely happy with C11 and C++14

(but I called it "careful" because I want programmers to think "carefully" when using it, not "unsafely")

Yes, I like that too, that's sort of coming to C++ in a static way

(eg. pointer types are just reference types that use GC instead of ARC, except you can also use careful modifier to do pointer arithmetic)

I honestly think those are great features for most people on a day to day basis

@MattJensJensen I made fork at one point where I tried to map all the features directly to C++11 stuff, but it caused a lot of overhead in some cases so I had to abandon that

@MattJensJensen Terraria is more... "RPG" focused, Starbound is more exploration driven. Tons of planets and blocks and items to discover

@MickLH Yeah, I'd typically go for a C++ metaprogram if I wanted to add features to C++, but that's usually a mess too

@DH. Oh I see, do you think it's good and has decent replay value?

If you like exploration, for sure. There's all sort of mini dungeons, weapons, monsters, NPCs and biomes

Wow, 8*s for me making myself a room owner...

@DH. @MattJensJensen I read the added quests also. As for the replay value, they made Starbound to be moddable, so the sky's the limit!

@AlexandreVaillancourt Ooooh, programatic modding?

They added quests a long time ago

(like random quests)

I don't have a clue :)

It's a sort of SDK modding, extend classes and stuff

Never went too deep with it

LUA

wooo

And well, there's no random quests

To be honest, I really hope that Wren gets popular for game scripting

@DH. No? Okay then!

There's only mini dungeons where you teleport yourself and you must reach the end of the dungeon

Those are random, you don't know the layout of the dungeon unless you teleport there

If they allow full Lua, how could you not make random quests?

Maybe there are mods that will implement random quests

But as of now, the only permanent city in the game has limited number of quests and a set of progression in it

@DH. I might have to make one of those said mods

What game?

Starbound

Oh that.

Thought that was dead in the water ages ago.

@AlexandreVaillancourt oh you had the identical edit as I hahah

Yeah it had very slow updates trough the years

Yep.

You can thank them (partially) for giving EA a bad name.

I hope they added new late game stuff because I'm not much into building and decoration, and that all I could do after making the last tech pieces

@MattJensJensen ;)

Literally word for word what I was going to submit ;)

@DH. I don't. Feels too little too late to me unless the update is MASSIVE. They had tons of attention back in like 2013 but then updates were drip fed.

Unity has grown on me, but I still refuse to use it

Hehe well the original was by SP. but I thought I could make it more thorough!

I have kind of decided to not play games in early access after I beat starbound with the low content back then... kind of ruin the experience before the 'final' game is released...

Still, I think it's one of those style culture things, we all have kind of seen a consistent style we like to fix in really badly written questions

@Sie The last year it got some cool updates like the remake of the first mission, the bikes, the alternative attacks of the combat revamp, the random dungeons and the ship expansion update

@MattJensJensen Bad code is always annoying to read. I'm currently trying to understand a c++ container library (header file) but they used tabs instead of spaces, and since my IDE is set to tab-> 2 spaces, the alignment is crappy and it annoys me a lot :P

@AlexandreVaillancourt Oh god, C++ container library just lends itself to ugly arcane code

Yup, crapload of (potentially weird) template stuff in there!

I truly have a love-hate relationship with templates, but usually when I'm dealing with other's code, it's a hate one

Hahaha yeah :)

if you have starbound can you try connecting to starbound.jgallant.com

I have Stabound but I'm at work now :P

Public?

What port?

Downloading now

Then I'll download on my other computer, then I'll try your server :)

And I'm out of decaffeinated coffee..

@AlexandreVaillancourt Ouch, you can't have caffeine either?

sorry

21025

@MattJensJensen I can, but I'll feel all weird if I get too much ;)

Is that the default port?

yeah

Starbound is giving me troubles on Linux

Yeah Starbound has some trouble running on OpenGL

It runs better on DirectX

I already had some random crashes on OpenGL

Hmm, better fix my Windows haha

Anyone try to join yet?

Still gotta get my Starbound working, but it looks like your DNS is up and the port is open

Not yet, gimme 2-5 mins!

OK, change log of 1.0 is out, time to read what is new

@DH. do you have a link to it?

I'm having to read trough my phone because my work proxy is blocking it :P

@DH. Ah kk!

Oh, oohhhh, tons of new quests because of the Ark, now it's finally useful!

Oh god that's a major update

Looks like it!

Definitely there's so much stuff I better get back to work and read that later

Geezus, so much new stuff

Will try to ask to my friends if they don't want to start from scratch just to have the fun of playing the new quests

This "cracked games" question is the first time I think I flagged something as "blatantly off topic"

@DH. Same here mate

It was the first time I wanted to be an asshole to a question asker, but I didn't.

@MattJensJensen Yeah, it's hard to resist :P

The best part of that question is

> OMG!!!!!!!!

It seems like intentional bait

Yup, I don't think anyone would be that stupid without knowing

I would say intentional fodder, but I doubt somone would create a new account to post spam to up their flag count

Mods would see right through that

Yeah Alex and Josh are always aware of those trolls

There is one troll, and I'm not even sure I'd call him a troll :/

Trolls have intent, that guy is just... irrational?

Like the guy that upvoted every question on the front page?

@AlexandreVaillancourt He might be genuinely curious and completely plastered.

@DH. No, I was referring to a recurrent user who's been evading ban and getting caught each time!

@DH. Kinda makes you wonder if the association bonus should start higher than 200 hahah

@MattJensJensen I'm talking about another guy :)

@AlexandreVaillancourt Oh sorry, just re-read your message

:)

In any case, @Jon's starbound server is working :)

Woo! I would join if I wasn't just about passed out

Go get some rest :) I don't play now, perhaps later!

Yeah mate! Hope you guys have great days, it's quite late for me here (as in I've been awake for far too long)

Well, since I'm on a different hemisphere I better play alone or with friends trough Steam join

Cya Matt!

you too man!

@DH. You're in Hemisphere South?

Yup, Brazil

Which makes any connection to the North a pain, I would have over 150ms ping

Funny; I rarely see hemisphere used for north/south... most of the time it's for east/west

Yeah

@DH. I don't know how I'm gonna deal with that :/ Have you encountered any apps that do a good job?

Well at least when I was at the school most of the time we talked about the North and South hemisphere, must be some kind of preference of each country

And I don't get what you said Mick, apps? What kind of them?

Games lol

Ah well, I basically avoid any game that doesn't have a brazilian server :P

Part of the problem is that we have most of our cables not on optic fiber

And the other problem is obviously the physical distance

The way I have things structured, you'd end up direct connecting to a few of the people who are closest to you on the screen lol

Are you making a P2P model?

yeah

Cool, I find those really hard to work on a game

I mean, the implementation is bad and then everyone lags the hell out

I've realized that a good implementation is so complicated that nobody is willing to do it lol

So I broke off my network code into a library, hoping to "get it done once and for all"

The main benefit is that whatever ping you're used to, it should cut in half

Making it open to best fit the needs of whoever is going to use?

wow that's a really good promise

Yeah, actually Sie inspired me to add another subsystem that automatically configures the protocol, it's an "adjustable" protocol

Interesting

At least it sounds really cool to me, because, all I know is how to make server-client applications lol

@DH. There's a catch though, you have to connect to nearby players which might be on the other side of the world

So ping cut in half isn't that good if you have to *3 before you can cut it in half lol

Ah well, can't ask too much when there's physical limitations :P

ugh I totally can ask too much

...I just won't get it

This makes Jabba look more philosophical

I'm curious why you have a way to create a UDP server with node.js wheb you can't use JavaScript to write the client for it. Shiw me 1 developer, who prefers JavaScript over whatever language his client is in as server.

I mean creating a client that's actually useful

Creating a client on a server side language is a strange idea

@Bálint server to server

What are the main reasons to create a 64-bit app compared to 32 bit?

"No RAM limit" and some kind of improvements in performance I would say

Ah, right you can address more. But in the current context, I don't think I need that much. And I wonder if it will hinder other aspects, because c++ ints, are they 64 bits or 32?

(in x64)

It means it takes up more space, fills the cache faster, etc..

That's the aspect of improvement I was referring, since it will be able to transfer faster to the CPU to perform arithmetic

But it depends a lot

And well, I'm a complete noob in C++, so IDK

Why would it transfer faster?

(I'm not trying to corner you here ;P)

If you're using numbers that bigger than 4 bytes, it would require more than 1 jump on the bus to transfer the whole number, right?

I guess!

Hmm, so if you normally use doubles, it could be an improvement...

Fck these doubles! not sure why we use them at work...

That would apply to long long too right? Those are 8 bytes IIRC

Yup!

But I think ppl more often use doubles over floats without a real need for it more often that long longs over ints

hi guis

Sup!

I use long longs instead of doubles

You manipulate your floating point values by yourself?

(sort of)

No, I just use very big numbers to keep everything numerical stable in cases where precision matters

@NaCl Ah, right, but it's not your usual case, right? I mean, usually, if you're only rendering stuff on screen or calculating distance in a game, you don't need this much precision, right?

Well. I have one (to be honest, more dead than alive now) project, where such a thing really matters. (space and laser stuff, idk, might have overengineered it)

But yeah, not the usual use case

Wanted to sound clever

Haha :P

BUT it makes much more often sense if you do some sort of library (= potential game)

Using long long you mean?

ye

to ensure numeric stability to be able to use the ==, <=, >= and != operators

@NaCl Sounds a lot like the game I'm making

@Garan some dev-blog, github/bitbucket page?

@NaCl Space and laser stuff (and possible over-engineering).

@Garan I know, I'm asking if you have some page where you present it :D

@NaCl Ah. Nope :/

@Garan Okay ^^

Right now I'm using Unity and bemoaning that Unity automatically assumes you want all your angles to be between 0 and 360.

And right now I'm considering saying "Screw it, superadvanced control systems, it can track targets with cancelling rotation and I'm just going to use LookAt.

aah

Because right now I'm looking at "Once I have a way to get the desired heading, I need two PIDs to correct the error".