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03:00 - 18:0018:00 - 00:00

3:30 AM
"@Borror0: considering that the US is 6.5% of the total world surface and 4.5% of the total world population, it is small by any reasonable measure. Therefore, I think this question applies to a minority of the visitors to the site, and would be better be internationalized"
Seriously?!
 
3:43 AM
So the majority of the visitors to the site must be from the People's Republic of China. Its population is 25% of the total world population.
 
lol
I pointed out that 30.5% of the StackOverflow userbase comes come the US and claimed victory.
 
Yeah, and the rest come from China and Africa (their populations combined are 50% of the total world population)
50% > 30.5%, owned owned owned owned
 
lol
 
Wait, I forgot to scale accordingly.
 
I mean, try to imagine the politics stack exchange closing all the US politics question
 
3:52 AM
It would be a whopping 330% for SE!
 
Because it's "too localized"
 
>is this question going to help other users or just the asker? And, here, the answer is an obvious yes.
Wait, what? Is it legit in English?
 
Which do you question?
 
We Russians have a joke that could be literally translated into English as follows:
M: Honey, do you want an orange or a lemon?
F: Yes.
IDK, a male would expect to hear “I want an orange” or “I want a lemon”
and the female just says, “yes”
So it's not clear what she wants of those two
 
Oh. I forgot the comma after users
 
3:58 AM
“is this question going to help other users or just the asker” could, as I understand it, be broken down into two separate questions, “Is this question going to help other users? Is this question going to help just the asker?”
 
Then it would have been proper English, I believe
It could, but the real question is "is this question going to help other users?" That's what I answered to. The "or just the user" is just to clarify the alternative.
 
I see.
 
I'm pretty sure it could have been far better phrased, though
 
 
1 hour later…
Ami
5:09 AM
@Borror0 thanks for posting the Feynman link
 
I figured at last one person here would think it's awesome like I did
 
Ami
I got sucked in...
Starting watching all his Cornell lectures
Great stuff
 
5:24 AM
Guys, have you watched "The Secret Life of Chaos" ? Its interesting. youtube.com/user/thesecretlifeofchaos
 
Ami
5:38 AM
@jase21 what did you find interesting? (I haven't seen it)
 
6:03 AM
 
Each time you do that, @Vitaly, I become more and mroe curious of what is in those removed comments
lawl
 
@Borror0 that last time, it didn't recognize the link as an image, so I removed it.
 
6:16 AM
2
Q: Boy Scouts and Atheists: Boycott, or change from within?

Lauren IpsumThe Boy Scouts of America are an admittedly Christian organization. They have "policies which prohibit atheists and agnostics from membership in its Scouting program, and prohibit 'avowed' homosexual people from leadership roles in its Scouting program as directly violating its fundamental princi...

Thinking of rename it to "Boy Scouts of America and Atheists: Boycott, or change from within?" and adding the USA tag
 
@Ami It explains how order is formed from disorder. How patterns emerge from nothing. That's what Chaos Theory is. A simple mathematical equation with constant feedback can produce highly complex outputs which are unpredictable. eg: Mandelbrot.
 
Ami
@jase21 indeed
 
7:14 AM
@Ami I'm curious, how's your reading of Greg Egan's or Peter Watts' SF coming along? You didn't like it?
 
7:41 AM
@vitaly I just sprayed my TV with Diet Dr Pepper. You SOB! (Over the The Preacher trollface thing)
 
 
2 hours later…
9:34 AM
Where' my Qur'an scholars at? :-)
 
10:18 AM
@StefanoPalazzo Your question is so thorough that I'm surprised that you didn't point the msot obvious: the Qur'an was written AFTER the invention of mummification so that's not a prediction.
 
@Borror0 you're absolutely right
I'm ashamed i missed that
 
I put it in an answer, so now it's covered :P
 
@Borror0 I also added it to mine, and gave you the credit you deserve
@Borror0 are you happy with my phrasing?
 
To be frank, not really
I'm not sure I would understand what you were saying, if I wasn't already aware of it
I have no idea if the process was understood or even known at that time. However, anyone of that time that saw an "ancient corpse" this well preserved would know that something is not normal. In other words, it wouldn't be too surprising if Muhammad knew of "undecaying Egyptian corpses"
 
10:49 AM
@Borror0 please go ahead and edit it if you can improve it, I'll take a look at it later in the day (it's quite early here :-) and I'm not quite awake yet)
And thanks for the honesty, I'm not a native English speaker
 
Early? It's 11 am there, no? It's 6 am HERE.
 
It's almost noon in fact, I just had a long night
 
English is not my native language either. I'm from Québec
 
cool :)
I assumed the idea that mummification was known by the learned and not by the people was common sense, for the time. But perhaps I should just reference your answer instead of trying to paraphrase
changed it again
 
I'm tempted to make a vain joke about how beautifully phrased it is now :P
 
10:59 AM
hehe
I seem to be stepping on people's toes here, somehow
 
What do you mean?
 
No idea, I got some snide comment earlier today about my answer being not well sourced. Which, since they are, I can only interpret as someone taking offence to my tone
I also got a comment to "drop the professorial tone"
0
Q: Do I sound posh?

stefano palazzoI'm German, and I try to speak British English as best I can, it's the language I've learned at school, and I'm always trying to be consistent. However, much of my English vocabulary and phrasing I picked up from British television programmes, films and books. Which is why I often use phrases lik...

I'd hate to be unfriendly just because I don't know better. And it seems people won't tell me if I am - understandably.
 
Can you link to those instances?
 
just a sec
3
A: How atheist was the Soviet Bloc?

DampeS8NSomewhat. It depended on the area and the officials involved. There is rarely anything Total in Totalitarianism. And at any rate, the Bloc were autonomous. If you really mean the Soviet Union, even here you have a lot of unevenness. The USSR was a BIG place. Some officials found religion useful....

and
0
Q: update-manager doesn't request PW - just NOOPs

marawutiI upgraded to Maverick and now I never get the password dialog that 10.04 had for installing packages - it just NOOPs from the GUI. Ran update-manager with user privileges from terminal and no error output. I understand that 10.10 now uses APT. Is there a simple fix in the policy mods to enable...

 
The first one is a joke. Just laugh it off. It's not because someone is hurt by what you said that there is necessarily something wrong with what you said. Fair and constructive criticism can still hurt some people's feelings. It's their problem, not yours.
I agree with you' as a general rule, you should link to stuff. "Common knowledge" can often be wrong: look at how many people believe in god. Unless you have some evidence to prove what you say, you can be wrong and anyone answering on this site should be aware of that fact.
 
11:10 AM
Sounds very reasonable
 
In the second case, the guy just sounds like an asshole
 
Take into account also that he must be a bit frustrated with his problem
At AskUbuntu, we're sort of the official support channel for Ubuntu - which means people expect of us to solve their problems (and rightly so, that's why we do it)
None the less, I have been told before to sound professorial even If I speak German. So I like to be sure
 
In that second case, it does seem that the problem is not with your English but with th technicality of your vocabulary though I can't be quite sure because I don't quite understand much of what is going on.
 
Thanks for your opinion anyway
 
I shouldn't post that.
 
11:37 AM
@Borror0 Awww. I got a follower. ;P
 
lol
 
“You have not idea whom you are aiding.” ← Wow. Reading that is almost like walking past a dog pound.
 
I love how he is trying to be condescending while making a typo and asking the other to 'drop the professional tone"
Can anyone figure out why Philip Miur put a bounty on that question?
As far as I can tell, it's answered. Am I missing something?
 
What's the typo?
 
no__t__ idea (and the parser sucks)
 
11:51 AM
lol
It should be "you have no idea"
 
right
missed that :)
 
@Borror0 I see three possible reasons. First, he might have wanted a refutation of the refutation. Second, he might have wanted to attract attention to the question. Third, he might have decided to do something random.
 
The question is a good one. It's one of the few I favorited.
It's just, without telling us what to look for how can we provide it?
 
what question are you talking about?
 
5
Q: Has anyone found any supporting materials that confirm/repudiate this oft-cited statistic?

mfgLooking for statistics about Atheists I encountered the same statistic over and over, "0.21% of Americans in prison are atheists." I have found one source that asserts this(it is in the form of correspondence between the proprietor of an atheist web-site and a research analyst with the Federal Bu...

This one.
 
11:58 AM
thanks
maybe it's just a little thank-you
 
You're quite welcome.
 
That's the problem: no one knows what's his goal.
We can, and will, speculate but it's different from knowing
 
We will. We freely will. In your face. Phi… er… Yahw… er… Nevermind.
I have been talking about a bounty trick earlier. You have to provide a good answer to a question, wait until you get upvoted, and start a bounty on that question. That way, you don't get to lose reputation points, since people would be lured into the question and would compensate the reputation loss by upvoting the topmost answer. Oh, and as a side-effect, they might give new answers.
 
blast I wish @DampeS8N would join the chat - we must resolve our differences.
He's still criticising me and I've no idea what he's on about
 
Link?
 
12:11 PM
Or if I really made a mistake... Making me look bad without me having a chance to correct myself and admit to my mistakes
0
Q: How do you account for the preservation of the Pharaoh in the Quran?

jase21Its told in Quran, that the Pharoah's body will be preserved until the world ends. So how can a book like this if it's not from God, predict or write something like this? What can I think about this from a atheist point of view? How come the things written in Quran, the predictions, come true ?

third comment on my answer
 
He's wrong but your reply isn't the clearest
Say that you did admit your interpretation of the verses may be lacking in your answer and that, if he missed it, he should read the second to last paragraph.
 
I hate to be confrontational :\
 
You're being defensive. Get it right. ;)
 
that's the one ;-)
okay I've changed my reply. This is now what I really think, no matter if it's defensive or even aggressive. I stand by my answer; so far.
I want this site to be full of expert-level answers, well researched. And ideally, there'd be no opinion at all. But I accept that's impossible.
 
@StefanoPalazzo Great reply.
 
12:20 PM
thanks
 
12:30 PM
0
A: Boy Scouts of America and Atheists: Boycott, or change from within?

Borror0I would suggest against trying to change the organization from within. It's a group you join voluntarily, so joining with the intention of changing one of their founding principles is disrespectful and most likely futile. Since they preferred losing government sponsorship over stopping their reli...

Is my answer too unfocused?
 
12:45 PM
@Konrad I lol'd at your comment on meta
 
@Borror0 which one was that?
 
The one about Evan
 
Ah
Well, it’s true
And I really think that he’s very productive in the atheism.SE so far
 
I heard he was a troll (I know his rep was like -800 or something like that), which was a shock to me because he's one of the most reasonable users here.
What exactly is so bad about his attitude on MSO?
 
1:02 PM
I don’t use MSO – except to file bug reports, that is
so I have no idea in what sense he’s a troll there
I just know that at one point Jeff actually phoned him to make sure he was dealing with a real person, not some trolling sockpuppet or spam bot
 
 
3 hours later…
3:35 PM
5
Q: What is the Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything

Elzo ValugiFor religious guys this question is the ultimate response and justification for their religions. What is the purpose of life, universe and everything for an atheist?

Duplicate (see comments)
 
Duplicate and there is no one answer, or even a best answer.
 
@Ustice Wrong. 42.
 
That is the funny answer.
Ultimately though, it doesn't impart any new information.
That said, I was going to answer it had it not already been done.
 
3:55 PM
About science, not atheism, but I figure it'll be relevant to most of y'all's interest
 
It's a bad story, I think. While there are problems with the publication methods used, this story should instead be focused on how scientific stories are picked up in the press.
Science isn't getting worse.
 
That is not what is being said
 
Most research turns out not to hold up to scrutiny.
There is no decline.
 
You're being hung up on the article's title
The content is actually saying: science isn't wrong, science is just misunderstood.
 
I don't get that. He keeps talking about the "decline effect."
the implication is that science is getting worse.
Otherwise he should have pointed out that this is nothing new, and that it is in fact a part of the process.
 
4:06 PM
"Getting at the truth has always been hard. Nevertheless, we can take comfort in the fact that, though nature is tricky, she is not out to trick us."
I don't see any instance where he says it IS new, do you?
 
"A greater realization of these effects by journalists, scientists, and everyone else will lead to more caution in reporting results, more realistic expectations, and, I would guess, a decline in the decline affect (more accurately, the stat-psych effect)."
Scientists do realize this.
It's the journalists and everyone else that have that problem.
 
Journalists? Journalists have NOTHING to do with this. We're talking about published studies.
Mainstream media have literally nothing to do with this.
 
Everyone generalizes from one example!
I am not a scientist and I realize that.
And I fit the category of everyone else.
Huh? Hmm.
 
If we want to call it anything, lets call it the Bad Anime effect. There seems to be a lot more bad anime today than in years past, but that is largely because there is a certain percentage of all anime that is bad, and there is a lot more anime being produced.
It certainly makes as much sense.
 
@Vitaly I love how your criticism of generalization includes "everyone." :)
 
4:11 PM
@Borror0 was responding to this:
Scientists do realize this.
It's the journalists and everyone else that have that problem.
He basically claimed that I have a problem realizing that, since I am not a scientist.
 
I was just laughing at the irony, not disagreeing.
 
@Borror0 If that were the point of the article, it could be summed up with, "Science: it works, bitches!"
 
@Ustice It would rather be "Science: it still works, bitches!"
 
But by using that weasel-word, he creates a different tone.
 
The article is about explaining the "declining effect."
 
4:13 PM
@Borror0 XD much better
 
Weasel-word? Huh?
You're talking about decline effect? It's Leher's term.
 
{{weasle-word}} nice ;)
its a wikipedia term
WP:WEASLE
 
Ustice, I challenge you to point to me any quote of the article that is either anti-science spin or wrong. I don't see any, do you?
 
I just reread it, and I think need to recount my previous objections.
 
I would bet you're reacting this way because it says not nice things about science and you like science. Basically, it's "someone is picking on my team" and you feel you have to defend your team.
 
4:16 PM
One of the parts that was sticking out to me was the part where he was talking about the offspring of intelligent people.
I read that wrong.
 
"Classic Example: Airplane Pilots' Landings" → That's a non sequitur
 
@Borror0 That's so LWish!
 
that isn't a weasel word to begin with..
 
At first I thought that he was implying that people are getting less intelligent.
 
offspring of intelligent people is a PEACOCK term.
journalist newbs.
 
4:18 PM
@EvanCarroll I LOVE the term weasel-word.
 
A weasel term has to intend to portray a statement as cited, factual without actually delivering on any of the claims..
Like "Some people believe"
 
@StefanoPalazzo How is that a non-sequitur? If we admit that scientific results do vary somewhat, and we consider publication bias, the results that tend to be on the upper end of the variation are more likely to be published than those on the lower end.
 
@Borror0 That is a natural reaction, and I have a special sore-spot for people that attack science based on misunderstandings of the scientific method or terms used.
 
@Ustice I know. I do that too. I was just calling you on it. ;)
 
I really think that the whole publication system needs to change.
It should go to something closer to StackExchange.
Where experts can vote up or down on articles and post comments/criticisms on it in some attached form.
 
4:22 PM
Science cannot tell us the purpose of Life, the Universe, and everything. See, science doesn't work. Oh, and those scientists have not even invented biological immortality.
 
@Borror0 "Extreme results, ..., are .. generally followed by less extreme ones." → that suggests an equivalence that hasn't been established, no? Why assume that chance plays a role, and if it doesn't, is the comparison still fair?
 
I'm not sure I follow, Stefano.
 
Ah, maybe I'm just grumpy about proof by example :P
 
Go on anyway. I don't understand your point and I don't like not understanding.
 
The pilot equivalence involves chance, a big and important factor that hasn't been established in the topic. The example makes perfect sense, but regarding scientific publications, it's no more than a metaphor.
I'd assert that chance plays no rote at all in the process of publishing scientific findings
 
4:28 PM
I am starting to worry about Ustice. Maybe I shouldn't have posted that. Maybe it was too much for him to bear. ;(
 
but the example needs chance to work, something like that
 
@Vitaly I went from ignoring it as a troll statement to inwardly chuckling at it's intended irony that I had previously missed.
 
@StefanoPalazzo In the process of publishing the results? No. In the process of having results worth publishing? Certainly.
@StefanoPalazzo Do you know what publication bias is?
 
sure
@Borror0 I accept that. As I said, I suspect that I just don't like examples. A was a bit quick to type those two Latin words, criticising without thinking about it properly
I was wrong. I don't like it, but it does make sense now that you've pointed out that I confused finding with publishing
And I do know what publication bias is. It's the reason I've never published anything :P
 
lol
 
4:34 PM
I also don't have the follow-through to finish studies that don't seem to lead to anything. Even though finding no effect could potentially be very useful. I've stopped two of my projects because I found patents covering them, for example. Didn't follow up on it, checking if the patents really explain absolutely everything
 
Now there is something that could contribute to a decline effect.
 
indeed
 
A broken patent system.
 
It's very hard to not explode into a rant about patents so, instead, I'm going to ask you your field of study.
 
Search your patent office for something covering "topological sort". And you won't find a thing, but I assure you its well publicised and patented. probably more than once
@Borror0 it's computer science
 
4:38 PM
Communism is great, bitches. We in the USSR have had no copyright laws, no patents, and no whatever! A book, once published, always became public-domain.
 
@Vitaly, now's the time to say you're joking :P
 
Nah-uh, I am serious. That's the truth.
 
@StefanoPalazzo But that would ruin the joke.
 
You could basically get a book, rewrite it just a bit, and publish it again.
No such thing as copyright.
 
Also, he's Russian and, as Hollywood has thought taught us through weak characters and stereotypes, Russians don't have a sense of humor.
 
4:41 PM
Copyright laws were introduced in the Russian Federation only after the Fall of the USSR.
lol @Borror0
 
@Vitaly please, mind your language
 
Sorry. ;P
I promise I won't mention the USSR again. Oops, I have just done it again.
 
I'd rather have bad language than stupid ideas.
Patent System--
 
@Vitaly hehe
@EvanCarroll I only ever thought about software patents. Can you tell my what you think is wrong with other patents?
 
(Incoming weasel-words, ETA 1 second) People say that a quarter to a half of all scientific discoveries in the 20th century were made in the USSR.
I find it difficult to verify that claim, but I find it easy to believe it as well, seeing how many ideas originating from Russian scientists or Russia-educated scientists are used in modern technology and science
Mathematics really flourished in the USSR
Perelman, Kolmogorov, Gromov, Kontsevich… They are legion
 
4:51 PM
I don't know about the percentage, but I would say that a significant number of scientific discoveries have.
 
lol
 
@Vitaly Unfortunately durring the Cold-War era, there wasn't much collaboration between Russian and US scientists.
 
But he's not that good of a mathematician - my answer has outscored his
 
Yeah, that was very unfortunate
 
4:57 PM
3
A: What is the sum of 1 + 1?

Gottfried LeibnizWhere should I being, Mr. Newton? My teacher says that the answer is 2, but I don't get it. She's right. Therefore, the sum of the two waters... is water! And by the same token, 1 + 1 must equal 1. True... my brain + yours = my brain.

 
I just wonder, is it a coincidence that the guy mimicked Gottfried Leibniz so well?
In our educational system, great scientists come off idealised
Does the same hold for the European and the North American educational systems? Is it common knowledge over there that Leibniz considered himself the Single Most Important and Intelligent Person on Earth?
 
5:12 PM
I've no idea if it's common knowledge
I have learned, at school no less, that Einstein went a bit mad in his late years, refused to accept quantum electrodynamics
 
@StefanoPalazzo They all suffer from the same problem: first-comism, and rewarding thought rather than action. There is nothing so great about any single idea, that merely thinking of it first should grant you a monopoly on it for the durations that patents are suggesting.
 
@EvanCarroll But most often, patents are on an Implementation, rather than the idea itself, aren't they?
 
The idea is the implementation rather than the production, or marketing.
 
I see what you mean
 
Is the standard implementation of the procedure of applying for a patent patented?
 
5:20 PM
I have an idea, lets me a game-controller rumble, by affixing a pager to it! Then let's not even attempt to market this idea. Someone will eventually come upon it, and we can sue them!
 
then there are software patents...
 
Software patents (including genetics, and biology) are just the best examples of the flaws in the system.
All patents are shitty, even the ones over basic stuff like kinetic interface devices.
 
I agree.
 
or, hardware widgets.
 
Well we don't really have those here :-)
yet :-(
 
5:22 PM
Just go patent the procedure of applying for a patent and you can sue anyone who tries to patent anything
Mission accomplished
 
Prior art would get in the way of that
 
I still think patents will be the great undoing of capitalism, but no one wants to listen long enough or seriously enough to get the threat.
I still read them as an anti-scientific intelligent-designesque way for the US to maintain super-power status well into the future. But, India and China won't respect them at the expense of their own prosperity.
 
that's getting quite political now :P
 
That's why they're there.
Patents wouldn't implemented as they are now if not for a very small group of companies that own a very large percentage of the patents.
 
5:25 PM
Same with copyrights -- they're 99 years because of the Mickey Mouse Act
 
^ The guy contemplates the patent system.
 
Since we're drifting to copyrights:
 
5:41 PM
@Borror0 http://lesswrong.com/r/discussion/lw/3lg/zendolike_induction_game_for_playing_online/
What do you think of it?
 
@Vitaly What the rule is or the idea for the game?
 
Both.
I am thinking of trying it here.
Or the latter, I guess
it's too early to speculate about the rule anyway
 
I think the mechanics won't play well on a forum
On chat, it would play well but, in a thread, it will be too slow.
 
Wanna try? :P
 
Someone needs to unban me from MSO.
 
5:51 PM
Any particular reason you're saying that?
 
I'm banned.
 
mso means meta.stackoverflow.com I assume?
 
@Borror0 if you do, 9 2 3 1 6 is yes, 8 1 2 2 0 is no.
 
yar.
 
Why are you banned?
 
5:53 PM
despots
 
what is a despot?
 
Despotism is a form of government in which a single entity, called the 'despot', rules with absolute power. That entity may be an individual, as in an autocracy, or it may be a group, as in an oligarchy. The word "despotism" means to "rule in the fashion of a despot" and should not be confused with 'despot'. Despot comes from the Greek despotes, which roughly means "master" or "one with power", and it has been used to translate a wide variety of titles and positions. It was used to describe the unlimited power and authority of the Pharaohs of Egypt, employed in the Byzantine court as a ...
 
Allright - I'm ashamed not to know that (the word is even the same in my native language)
but I still don't understand why you're banned
 
Mods don't like him.
He challenges conventional wisdom in a near-troll style.
(no offense meant, you're just very direct)
 
@Josiah Then use direct, not "troll." Troll is denigrating, and direct is frank.
 
5:59 PM
@Evan, I was trying to get across the point of how they sideline your comments and suggestions.
 
@Josiah s/Mods/Jeff/
 
-12
A: Should this question have been closed?

Evan CarrollNo, StackOverflow should buy some more hard drive space and stop deleting content. This kind of stuff is pathetic, my gmail account has over 7GB of space now! That's probably enough to hold the whole question/answer db.

 
right, well, someday we'll have a democratic SO/SE.
 
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