I wouldn't say I've been "missing it," Bob.

@AaronHall I don't agree with everything he says or find as much outrage as him in a variety of regards, but there's quite a few very smart analysis he makes and interesting points. I find his writings on general workplace dynamics more interesting than industry pieces.

He does have some nice insights about that.

who's this guy?

The creator of all Networks

QA's always keepin me down

you don't have to leave that up. You could delete it, or make it just a link.

I'm just sayin

@KitZ.Fox Yes. And not just because answering you moves @Ampt 's post a little higher up my screen.

A little closer to scrolling off my screen

Yes, I could have edited.

Quit your complainin

@psr no you couldn't have

unless you got modded and I missed the memo?

heals the world, makes it a better place

@Ampt wow that's terrible. takes like ten plays just to figure out what's going on and what everything says

My own prior remark. But that would have missed an opportunity to scroll an extra line up.

@AaronHall still honing your passive aggression, I see! \o/

ya'll need to learn to read

no u

no u

@LightnessRacesinOrbit something wrong?

@AaronHall huh?

@Ampt I keep trying to tell @enderland, he doesn't understand he's no longer the predator but now the prey..

> I'm getting too old for that shit.

then on his most recent blog post he says he's 32

I hate people like that -.-

> I'll just treat this as encouragement to do something else with my time. In that role of articulate, angry political zealot who understands Silicon Valley's failed culture more than almost anyone (despite not living there) I've been looking for a replacement for a while.

can already tell he thinks he's god's gift to the world

must be the surname

I'm getting to old for this to! I'm 17

@LightnessRacesinOrbit seriously, is this an accusation? types in a very calm voice

@AaronHall calm down

SCOTCH

It's almost Friday.

It's closer to Friday than to Tuesday, which is nice

Then again, it's also closer to Friday than to Saturday, so..

@DeliriousSyntax So I guess your school is saving the spelling classes for your final year, huh? :P

my hair is getting so long now. it's crazies

@LightnessRacesinOrbit Did I do anything wrong?

I am terrible at spelling and English class in general

I think I make up for it in math though

@AaronHall no?

feels relieved

@AaronHall Look: blokey posted a GIF and didn't in any way indicate a state of perplexion over whether it had to remain oneboxed. You said "you don't have to leave that up. You could delete it, or make it just a link" which to me, considering all the aforementioned, was a super passive aggressive way of saying "ugh - please delete it or make it just a link". I was merely remarking on how impressive I found your leet passive aggressive skillz.

Don't need to come at me over it :(

:)

#hth

@LightnessRacesinOrbit Have a nice day!

@psr ISWYDT

What does psr stand for?

@JimmyHoffa one more word from you and I'm telling everyone where you've been for the last forty years

can I go home now?

@LightnessRacesinOrbit witness protection program

@Ampt you are home

Perhaps you are unaware of a prior matter where I was accused of passive aggression, and so I am particularly sensitive to such characterizations.

@AaronHall I see

Pro Singing Runner

@LightnessRacesinOrbit That's kind of dissapointing

I thought it would be bigger, with fewer people

well I think you'd have an easier time of it if you didn't immediately jump into accusing people of making "accusations"

shrug

and if it's been remarked on before that you are PA then maybe you're PA!

I would take it as a compliment - I certainly meant my comment as one

so shall we move on :)

@Ampt what like a virtual mansion or something?

@LightnessRacesinOrbit bigger than my cube

@Ampt I've never had a cube

I still haven't decided whether it's an experience worth aspiring to

if only so that I can say, on my deathbed, that I did it

Eh, it's not so bad. It's more who's around you than anything

you need a fort

(ugh that filename)

Could someone do me a huge favor?

@DeliriousSyntax no but I might be able to do you a small favour

Depends on the favor

What is the point of the main in this?

is it going to be debugging a .zip

import java.io.*;
import java.net.*;


public class UrlDownload {
    final static int size = 1024;

    public static void fileUrl(String fAddress, String localFileName, String destinationDir) {
        OutputStream outStream = null;
        URLConnection uCon = null;

        InputStream is = null;
        try {
            URL url;
            byte[] buf;
            int byteRead, byteWritten = 0;
            url = new URL(fAddress);
            outStream = new BufferedOutputStream(new FileOutputStream(destinationDir + "\\" + localFileName));

I'd rather characterize myself as direct but tactful.

@DeliriousSyntax main is the entry point for java programs

that's where the program starts when you execute it

What do you mean "what's the point" of it? It's the entrypoint to your program. It accepts program parameters and calls your function!

I meant in this particular program

Without it, your computer wouldn't know how to "run" your class.

@LightnessRacesinOrbit what's wrong with the filename?

@DeliriousSyntax Ask the person who wrote it?

@Ampt "no girls allowed" in a cube in what looks like a tech company? gee I dunno! how could I possibly find that offensive :(

It was in 2011 lol He only has 300 rep I dont think he gets on anymore

@LightnessRacesinOrbit wait, what?

@Ampt The filename is http://www.staffingdaily.com/wp-content/gallery/test/fort-cube-no-girls-allowed‌​.jpg.

ooooh the image name

yeah I didn't see that

I was like what is he on about now?

haha which file did you think I meant

I had no clue

@Ampt I hope we've learnt something here today :P

inb4 no but learned maybe

inb4b4 just no

@LightnessRacesinOrbit that you're a girl? that you hate cube forts?

THAT YOU HATE FUN???

@Ampt that you should not immediately assume I'm talking crazy nonsense because sometimes, just sometimes, it's simply you being a dumbo!

ARE U AMPT UP YET

hmmmm.... I like my original hypothesis more

@DeliriousSyntax: Which book are you using to learn Java?

Let's not be so aggressively aggressive now.

:P

@Ampt your call but try to remember it was proven wrong

@AaronHall touché!

@LightnessRacesinOrbit one data point does not a trend make, my friend.

@Ampt doesn't need to make a trend to validate the claim that I stated, which used the word "sometimes" - indeed, one data point is sufficient to validate it!

(I think I made up some words there)

k I'm going home

@LightnessRacesinOrbit teach your self java in 21 days, java complete reference, and Introduction to programmin using java, the Aide - ide for java and c++ app, and my computer programming class

crazyontap.com/topic.php?TopicId=318039

ichael o church has something crazy coming out unless he just got silenced to stop it..

@MichaelT I haven't really got into that one yet just sitting there on my phone I really like the Intoroduction to programming one

@DeliriousSyntax not being funny but it seems like all those books probably explain what main does

I'd like to think that he got a good job on the condition that he take it all down.

I know what main does...

> Maybe somebody pointed out that perhaps, you know, his particular style of internet fame wasn't helping

hehehe

@DeliriousSyntax then why did you just ask us what it does -.-

I was just wondering what it's doing in that specific program

@DeliriousSyntax I see

Because it works when I run one of the other specific functions using blueJ

It's calling the function fileDownload, once for each argument passed on the command-line, passing that argument (and the executable name) to the function. Sadly it's also very strange because it uses a loop from i = 1 to args.length immediately after verifying that args.length is 2, so the loop is totally pointless. And the else block is empty.

Perhaps that's why you're having trouble

@JimmyHoffa I'm ALIVE

If the question is "why did the author write it this way" then again I'm afraid you'd have to ask him/her. Perhaps the fact that they have 300 rep and haven't been back since five years ago should be a sign .... and you should go rip off someone else's code instead? ;)

So everything in it is unnecessary?

@DeliriousSyntax not everything, no... if you made it empty then no code would be executed and the program wouldn't do anything.

but there is a lot of redundancy in it, yes.

I'd probably rewrite it like this, assuming we didn't want to change the semantics:

public static void main(String[] args) {
	if (args.length != 2)
		return;

	fileDownload(args[1], args[0]);
}

Yeah I kinda get that part(The blank main) ;) I like going through code and finding what each little section does then go out and make it simpler and better where user has no troubles using it. It's easier to learn that way

gah

... where "the debugger" != us

but when i run

debugger == "you all" it returns true

Python is soo soo much easier to debug and simplify as it looks much neater and straight forward

@MichaelT (yes)

chat.stackexchange.com/users/15752/yannis twitter.com/yrizos :)

ipython is pretty nice but I'd rather debug a c# program in VS any day

@whatsisname I must admit, from my VB.NET days (lol) VS made debugging fairly painless

but I'm not typically an IDE guy - I'll hop into GDB as and when I have to.

@MichaelT Is there a download?

though VS 2015 took things a few steps backwards it seems

come to think of it, I rarely find the need to run my debugger. I literally don't know what that means about me or my code, whether it's good or bad.

what normally happens when you do find a bug?

@EcstaticSnow amazon.com/Robert-Reads-How-To-Programmer/dp/1440439869

@Ixrec If I think I know straight off what the probable cause is (and, as the product "architect" and principle coder, this is quite common), I go to that part of code and spend a minute or so thinking it through, then test a fix.

If the fix works, I double-check my thinking w.r.t. possible regressions, then fix and close the ticket.

I think that "Conducting expirements" should be item number 2 after learn to debug

If it doesn't, and the bug is a crashy sort of bug, I'll load up GDB and stare at the backtrace for a bit until it comes to me.

Otherwise, I'll just plaster a few more pieces of log output in the code to narrow the problem down, printf some variables, that kinda thing. My debug logging is generally pretty good so it rarely gets to this point.

maybe it means you don't care if your code works and if it doesn't you don't bother fixing it? :P

@enderland HERETIC

the experimenting/hypothesis testing of the scientific method is so integral to the solving of more difficult bugs, it pains me when people don't think like it is

@MichaelT Whiteboard could come up with a version of Read's "How To Be A Programmer" .... but it would actually only cover design patterns and would therefore invite many negative reviews on Amazon that nobody had said up-front it was more like "How To Be A Software Designer"

@whatsisname 100%

I can't remember the last time I had a mega serious bug that took a while to figure out. It's all been kinda crappy stuff for a while

I did have a bit of fun getting that modified event loop running as you may recall

@JimmyHoffa: about that btw, probably going to be a months at least now before I can get to benchmarking it, but I do intend to

yep

when you say "principle coder", about how much of the code was written by you? how thorough is the automated testing?

at least 95% of ~100,000 lines

the automated testing is .... well, it's getting there

copy/paste ftw!

hah :)

the "core" (message dispatch / event whatsit / task scheduling framework) is completely unit tested and highly stable

that would explain it, I'm at maybe 15% of...I'm pretty sure it's over 100k but I haven't counted in ages

the rest is a combination of some newborn integration tests that cover maybe 50% of the app and have done so only very recently, and waiting for what passes here as a QA team to discover problems

and my core only became arguably testable this week

they are my automated testing

there is also a huge run of functional/regression tests that our juniors are forced to run through on every new proper release hehehe

@MichaelT Are you a MichaelT clone?

(because those comments come from an unclaimed profile)

it's like maybe MichaelT died and was deleted ... but now an imposter has come to take his name and carry on in his place

to honour his deeds

our debug logging is definitely not good enough to make bugs self-evident without using a debugger, or lots of printfs if it's a UI bug that breakpoints interfere with

@MichaelT I'm jealous. I decided that at least thrice over the years but always pulled out at the last moment. Probably the only scenario in which that can't be said to be a positive outcome

but I'm not sure if that particular problem is a solvable one, usually anything I set to log all the time just becomes spam because it's only useful when that exact module is broken

@Ixrec Not trying to toot my own horn but it also seems to be one of my skills - I retain enough sort of perceptual memory of how the code is laid out and what it does that I can identify likely bug causes almost instantly in most cases. At least in the projects I've worked on here. Presumably something about how my brain is wired. And presumably it's made up for by lack of other skills that other people have.

but again it helps that I basically wrote the whole thing

that does sound like something you'd be good at

presumably the nature of your software helps too

and I always make sure to write in enough assertions and so forth that any bugs are reasonably well isolated, so the error text / backtrace usually does most of the identification work anyway

when there's a bug in my app it's almost always obvious what regions of the codebase it might be from but pinning down which function without some experimentation or debugging is nigh impossible

status-not-reproducible always? :)

my worst enemy is exceptions that have somehow managed to bubble to my emergency top-level handler and become completely non-descriptive. that sort of thing is the main cause of my giving up and invoking gdb to root around

@Ixrec Honestly I've thus far attributed it to autism spectrum sort of stuff (which, remember, makes one think different not necessarily better, so it's not a brag). But I have no factual basis for that attribution

on the other hand, it may just be that our codebase is too intertwined

@MichaelT ow

@MichaelT OW

one of the reasons we're doing mega-refactoring right now is because too much of our core logic relies on circular dependencies and retaining references to UI widgets and other stuff that makes it impossible to meaningfully test any chunk of the logic in isolation

well at least your 1M sloc were really more like 100K sloc logically

:D

if we succeed at making the dependencies a proper DAG shape we might be able to say "this line of the logs looks wrong so it must be in there" with more reliability

though my main goal is simply to get robust tests around all of that junk (which Jenkins can run)

well, officially the main goal is to enable us to migrate to a new set of UI widgets since the old ones are gettingdeprecated

but I want tests

I want to change my nick to PreferenceBean

"I don't want to review more until you've deleted everything that's not going to be used."

@LightnessRacesinOrbit do it do it do it do it

@AaronHall I'll consider it OldBean

I always wonder how these people even get hired if they don't even know what a boolean is

@Ixrec a what?

I was quoting myself.

how typical

yay

so you're saying the software is a POS?

omg did I say 100K loc? just counted it up .... 212,348

I'm including JS, SPEC and SH in that though which drops my contribution down to 90% or so

153,992 honest-to-god C/C++ [sic]

I wonder what percentage of POS's are running on DOS.

the initialism "POS" being aptly chosen there

It case it wasn't incredibly obvious, I had intended my question to be a joke.

2009ish MIS class - case study of Zara - so proud of their DOS POS's which they installed with 3.5 inch floppies.

@AaronHall well I didn't want to accuse you of being passive aggressive against POS systems so I thought I should give you the benefit of the doubt :)

I kinda think you're being passive aggressive with how much you keep using the term. :P

@MichaelT hehe I have a parser like that. once I'm supporting more than ten keywords I may do it a bit better, or replace the whole lot with a Lua interpreter or something

@AaronHall is that ... an accusation sir???

It's a statement of fact about my thoughts. :P :D

omg u hypocrite

It's only hypocritical if I maintain double standards, but if you keep violating my standards, I'll treat you similarly. :P :D

@MichaelT yeah I got that

@MichaelT I'm saying mine's the same just not thousands of them. It's ten.

Wrong

what do you know you haven't even been alive for twenty years

You don't really know that though...

(my age)

My certainty level is equal to my caring level

So your care a lot because you are 99% certain XD I think I'll like your comment now

No; as you pointed out yourself, I have no way whatsoever to be in any way at all certain about your true age.

but nice tryyyyyyy

Dang :/

PreferenceBean always wins

get used to it

Good 'ol Rock. Nothing beats that!

Ok - goodnight ladies

(wow: physics.stackexchange.com/q/233798/17547)

Passive aggressive. ^^^^

???????

try:
    Intellegence = DeliriousSyntaxIntelligence[LightnessRacesinOrbitIntelligence]
Except IntellegenceCompacityMaxedError:
    Intelligence = DeliriousSyntaxIntelligence

>>> IntObjectNotFound

Nope, maybe the guy is a washed up R&B singer?

There's a lot of Aaron Hall's out there, actually.

hahahah

yeah, I assumed so

what

@whatsisname is this i dont even

isn't the answer to a question like that always "the most senior person who cares"?

There are five Aaron Hall's on StackOverflow