Root Access

@ChatBotJohnCavil Never heard of it. But I've never used a data connection on a phone. So...

@ChatBotJohnCavil Yes, I saw that. If there is a connection, I don't get it.

@ChatBotJohnCavil Fibre not available where he lives. ISP Verizon said they were going to deploy their Fios service there but it never happened.

Where I live, we have fibre available but it's too expensive for our taste.

Oops, I'm addressing my comments to a bot, apparently.

@qasdfdsaq fibre and gigabit!

@FaheemMitha LTE is "4G" to most laymen

@JourneymanGeek Fibre and 10Gigabit!

12:56 AM

basically the 'fastest' mobile network you can get

Life in the 21st century. Who has the fastest net connection.

@qasdfdsaq 10 gigabit isn't quite at the point where it makes sense

@JourneymanGeek Nah, that's 4G+ or 4.5G now!

@JourneymanGeek That I've heard of, yes.

!!/wiki LTE-Advanced

ChatBot John Cavil

12:57 AM

LTE Advanced

LTE Advanced is a mobile communication standard and a major enhancement of the Long Term Evolution (LTE) standard. It was formally submitted as a candidate 4G system to ITU-T in late 2009 as meeting the requirements of the IMT-Advanced standard, and was standardized by the 3rd Generation Partnership Project (3GPP) in March 2011 as 3GPP Release 10. == Background == The LTE format was first proposed by NTT DoCoMo of Japan and has been adopted as the international standard. LTE standardization has matured to a state where changes in the specification are limited to corrections and bug fixes. The first...

By the time they start advertising 4.75G or 4G Ultra we might actually be close to the speeds originally defined as 4.0G.

We're starting to see consumer friendly 10gb/copper gear on desktops/workstations but not the additional supporting infrastructure.

@JourneymanGeek I hear Comcast are handing out used Cisco 10Gbps edge routers to customers on their 1.5/2.0Gbps cable packages

@JourneymanGeek Some enthusiast and workstation boards are starting to pack 10 GbE but I haven't seen a consumer router with 10 GbE.

@bwDraco exactly

@qasdfdsaq that would be interesting

1:00 AM

@qasdfdsaq That's awfully expensive.

It seems like a small-business/SOHO type tariff but at $300 a month it's actually quite cheap

Compared to like, $100-150 for ~200Mbps-300Mbps services

Beyond a certain point, is faster bandwidth actually useful?

hmm

That's a complex question

MORE POWER!

I don't see how Home Improvement is relevant.

1:11 AM

Practically?

Most of your bandwidth usage is bursty

I don't know what that means. Occasional bursts of usage?

so my practically 20/20 is fast enough for most things most of the time

But I have one user who uses the network heavily

pretty much

so "more bandwidth" is useful if you can actually use it - say if you have multiple people streaming video with insufficient caching.

Also most people need more downstream than upstream

Yes, multiple people on one line might make sense.

@JourneymanGeek 20mbps (megabits) up as well as down?

@FaheemMitha yes

its supposed to be 200/200 but that's for "local sites only"

@JourneymanGeek That's fast. Do you actually get that speed? And is it fiber?

1:17 AM

@FaheemMitha yes and yes

@JourneymanGeek Ah. Ok.

I'm actually talking real speeds not advertised speeds

@JourneymanGeek Ok. Because the two can get confused.

but we get a slightly nicer price bundled.

@FaheemMitha advertised speeds is 200/200

"local sites only"

@JourneymanGeek What does "local sites" mean?

1:19 AM

so stuff that's got local proxies or hosting is faster.

I suppose anything in singapore

netflix in theory is the one I'd care about if I decided to get it.

Oh. So, if the hosting site is in SG you get 200/200?

but I was aware of that

yup

I see.

If I only got internet, gigabit would make sense, but we get a decent price with our cable bundle

and dad needs his cricket and tamil movies ;p

Bob

@JourneymanGeek "Also most people need more downstream than upstream" I hate that, if only because my ISP thinks 1Mbps up is enough.

Hell no.

1:25 AM

@Bob "most people" ;p

If you're here, you're likely an outlier

allquixotic

we're not most people

which makes me happy and sad at the same time

Bob

lol

allquixotic

looks like SWTOR is being DDoS'ed right now

login is slow/broken

Play STO!

I played STO for like... 10 minutes. I got to use my laser gun and kill some Borg by shining it at them.

1:45 AM

@JourneymanGeek Tamil movies??!! Oh, you're from the South?

@FaheemMitha Yes

@JourneymanGeek Probably better off in SG, though.

allquixotic

@qasdfdsaq I do. Sometimes.

3:13 AM

computerworld.com/article/3023533/microsoft-windows/…

At this point, Microsoft might as well just terminate all support for Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 for all systems by the end of the year.

computerworld.com/article/2993851/windows-pcs/…

Microsoft, if you really want everyone to run Windows 10, then just pull the plug on Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 support (not just on Skylake machines, but all hardware) and force the upgrade. It's that simple.

> [...] sans a way to view all updates, users could only proceed with the Windows 10 upgrade. Refusing to do so meant that no other updates, including recent security patches, could be installed. That left those users on the horns of a dilemma: Either start the Windows 10 upgrade process -- perhaps without the knowledge that it could be canceled -- or leave the machine vulnerable to attack.

If it matters this much, just declare Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 EOL!

End of rant.

@bwDraco Please don't give them ideas.

@FaheemMitha Can't agree.

There's a good reason they're pushing this upgrade.

Ah, I just read the article. Comment withdrawn. They're insane. What can I say.

Platform fragmentation is the main reason. It's an outright waste of resources to support every major OS release for ten years.

Anonymous

well it's MS

3:22 AM

Screw enterprises. Just upgrade!

Anonymous

one big audience for them is the enterprise

headdesk

Anonymous

specially since they are the ones that pay the biggest licenses

heh

Sigh. I must have lost my mind again.

3:23 AM

Also enterprise is the halo product

@bwDraco Well, people want to use what works for them. And not support the MS revenue stream.

if everyone used linux at work, they'd be more likely to use it at home

But maybe you're speaking satirically.

Also enterprise validation is a pain in the ass

32 secs ago, by bwDraco

Sigh. I must have lost my mind again.

3:23 AM

I wish more proprietary software supported Linux.

Not that I like proprietary.

You basically need to test every single piece of software to see if it works perfectly

In recent years, the only thing I've used MS for is Turbo Tax software.

With linux you could go with centos or ubuntu LTS

Oy vey. I keep disrupting the chat room with these rants.

With OS X, my last workplace held off upgrading till we couldn't buy new machines we could downgrade to an older workplace

3:25 AM

@JourneymanGeek Well, backporting free software to your platform is a DIY job. I do it all the time.

@FaheemMitha big commercial software ;p

But you can't do that with proprietary software.

with layers upon layers of wrappers

@JourneymanGeek Hmm?

@FaheemMitha used to work in a VFX firm

3:26 AM

@JourneymanGeek Ah. Elaborate, please.

@FaheemMitha hm. Not sure if its NDAed

I don't see why Turbo Tax can't produce a Linux version.

@bwDraco gee, thanks. Now if someone googles me talking about it they'll know where I'm talking about

@FaheemMitha Maybe they don't want to support Linux?

Deleted that, since its information I'd rather not have on chat.

3:27 AM

It takes an entire new team of people to support a different OS.

@MichaelFrank Apparently they don't.

I was already acting out about the Microsoft Windows 10 push. I'm just disrupting chat at this point.

@FaheemMitha rough overview? Basically we have a ton of environmental variables that software we use picks up on.

@bwDraco This chat doesn't see on-topic enough to be disruptable.

Stuff that is specific to each project

We have a set of complicated scripts that do that

Anonymous

3:28 AM

@JourneymanGeek yea but there's still a problem for propietary software on linux

In c shell, since its how we always done it

Anonymous

it's still quite fragmented

@PatoSáinz most software in the VFX industry is either homebrew or proprietary

@JourneymanGeek I think that constituted outing. I think it may be appropriate to lay down the banhammer this time.

I know I've been warned.

Anonymous

ie. graphical libs qt/gtk, init systems (thank god systemd is now almost standard)

3:28 AM

@bwDraco as a mod, I was able to deal with it appropriately.

@bwDraco If you want to leave just go... Begging to get banned is kinda annoying.

Anonymous

I mean the LSB (linux standard base) hasn't been useful for years

ANyway

Anonymous

But FreeDesktop has made huge advances in unifying the Linux env

Alright. Will be back after a brief cooldown.

My apologies if any disruption occurred.

3:29 AM

@PatoSáinz so what you do is you pick an OS you know will be supported for say 7 years

@MichaelFrank Yes, I expect it does.

(centos ugh)

But there are people who would buy it.

Oct 21 '15 at 2:10, by Journeyman Geek

The next request to be suspended may be entertained.

then pick a standard environment. At 5 years you start working on moving everything to the next OS

Anonymous

3:30 AM

@JourneymanGeek but not enough people use centos on their workstations

@FaheemMitha Probably not enough to justify paying x amount of full time staff.

@PatoSáinz old workplace did

Anonymous

maybe you could something like the SUSE build service

with old gnome.

Will be back in 15 minutes or so.

3:30 AM

@MichaelFrank Yes, I expect they've done the calculations.

Anonymous

@JourneymanGeek well I'm sure that UX sucked compared to something newer

I can't go into details but the sheer level of complexity was horribad

Anonymous

I do love me some CentOS

@PatoSáinz I'm a KDE user

Anonymous

but no thanks

3:31 AM

lack of options was a bit of a pain

as well as hitting some obscure bugs no one really fixed.

Anonymous

@JourneymanGeek back when Linux was my daily driver OS I also used KDE

Anonymous

5 looks really cool

Anonymous

now I just use the default GNOME with some tweaks that comes with Fedora

Anonymous

becuase in my desktop I just VM and use virtualbox's seamless window mode

Anonymous

and in my laptop I dual boot

3:32 AM

I usually run fedora KDE for my linux desktop/home server

since I need a gui for some of the functions of my torrent client

Anonymous

@JourneymanGeek kde is way overkill for that

Anonymous

a bare X.org would have been enough

Are there any significant mass moves towards free Unix-like systems in the West? I know Ubuntu is quite popular?

Anonymous

or openbox if you needed a WM

in Tavern on the Meta on Meta Stack Exchange Chat, 55 secs ago, by bwDraco

We might need a CM here because I attempted to out a mod.

3:33 AM

I mean, just check out Ask Ubuntu.

I anticipate a network-wide suspension and may be unavailable for extended periods of time.

Anonymous

@FaheemMitha I think Germany and many other nordic countries are using linux

Anonymous

@bwDraco stop trying to get suspended man

Anonymous

@JourneymanGeek what? what kind of software do you run?

Anonymous

Also I love Fedora for servers too

3:34 AM

@PatoSáinz Yes, but a mass movement?

@PatoSáinz qbitorrent. The rss manager needs a gui

@bwDraco Just. Log. Out.

Anonymous

@bwDraco I think Journeyman does not care

Walkies

yup

I can delete it.

Anonymous

@JourneymanGeek ughhhhhh must be some other better alternative? I love transmission

3:35 AM

Please don't mention my ex workplace when I'm out for walkies XD XD XD

Anonymous

they even have client guis for chrome

@PatoSáinz naw. this works perfectly outside that

Anonymous

@JourneymanGeek ACME corp

@PatoSáinz Deluge is pretty nice.

Calling it acme corp is fine

Explains a lot.

Anonymous

3:36 AM

@MichaelFrank any kind of killer features that you loved?

Dammit. I just lost my mind.

Anonymous

@JourneymanGeek well try to slim down that KDE in your server lol

@PatoSáinz It doesn't have ads!

Anonymous

just use bare Xorg or openbox, unless you also have VNC fun with it then go ahead with KDE

@PatoSáinz I'm cool with it

pity my linux box won't do 4K

Anonymous

3:37 AM

@JourneymanGeek must. slim. all the things.

@PatoSáinz nomachine!

Anonymous

@MichaelFrank most OSS torrent software doesn't have ads either lol

Anonymous

@JourneymanGeek I'm working with Xen in my new workplace

Anonymous

I'm amazed at how the dom0 eats only like 150 MB of RAM at most

Anonymous

@JourneymanGeek is that like an RDP server for linux?

3:38 AM

@PatoSáinz I know. it's not really feature rich, it just looks simple and is easy to use.

!!/tell 26938638 wiki NX technology

ChatBot John Cavil

NX technology

NX technology, produced by NoMachine, is a computer program that handles X Window System connections to display remote desktop environments over a computer network, and attempts to greatly improve on the performance of the native X display protocol to the point that it can be usable over a slow link such as a dial-up modem. It wraps remote connections in SSH sessions for encryption. The NX scheme was derived from that of DXPC – the Differential X Protocol Compressor project. NX software is currently available for Windows, Mac OS X, Linux, and Solaris. NoMachine has clients available for Windows...

Do most of you use Linux-based systems, then? Any BSD users?

I barely interact with it though. Sonarr/Couchpotato do that most of the time.

@FaheemMitha Wholly Windows here. ;)

I know there are people out there using FreeBSD, but I don't run into them often.

Anonymous

3:39 AM

@FaheemMitha I used OpenBSD for a while

@PatoSáinz How is it?

Anonymous

and here at work there's a couple FreeBSD boxem

Anonymous

@FaheemMitha secure as fuck.

I've heard good things about FreeBSD, but not many people use it.

Anonymous

@JourneymanGeek seems very nice... may try it out. But it's closed source :<

3:40 AM

Back in the day, I considered it, but I settled on Debian instead.

@PatoSáinz yeah that. Chrome remote on my windows boxem.

@MichaelFrank Ok.

@PatoSáinz I assume that's... secure. :-)

Anonymous

@JourneymanGeek for some reason chrome remote makes youtube videos drop frames on my main monitor

@PatoSáinz I use Linux for practical not ideological reasons.

Anonymous

@FaheemMitha very. When I talk to people who have used FreeBSD in the past they've all complained to me about the lack of a package manager.

Anonymous

3:41 AM

I think they haven't heard of ports

So closed source is fine for me.

Anonymous

@JourneymanGeek I do think linux is more practical for some tasks but I have a thing against closed protocols+closed client+closed server

@PatoSáinz I've never used ports, so I don't know how it compares to Debian, for example.

@PatoSáinz could run nx3 but the forks are crashy.

Anonymous

I'm no stallman but I do see the value for open source stuff, at least when you have to debug it

HackToHell

3:43 AM

Even if you run linux there are a ton of binary closed source blobs

In the kernel and other places

@HackToHell Only drivers.

Anonymous

@FaheemMitha it seems to be a fine replacement of a package manager

I also use ssh.

@PatoSáinz Ok.

Anonymous

@HackToHell and microcode, and firmware, etc.

3:43 AM

All driver related.

Well, hardware related.

Anonymous

@JourneymanGeek telnet ftw

Actually with the new setup... I could just switch inputs and use my secondary keyboard.

Since monitor 2 has a basic remote.

Anonymous

@FaheemMitha but I didn't make OpenBSD my daily OS, just wanted to try it for a while

On systems like Debian, non-free software is relatively uncommon. Other than stuff like Mathematica or Matlab.

@PatoSáinz ok

Anonymous

the openbsd devs are some of the best devs I've ever seen

3:45 AM

Oh, and Skype. Unfortunately.

Anonymous

and if I had to build something resilient and internet facing I'd go for OpenBSD

@PatoSáinz In what respect?

Does OpenBSD use ports too?

Anonymous

@FaheemMitha security and design

Anonymous

Yes they do

@PatoSáinz Ok.

Anonymous

3:46 AM

kinda

Anonymous

> Packages are the pre-compiled binaries of some of the most used third party software. Packages can be managed easily with the help of several utilities, also referred to as the pkg* tools:

pkg_add(1) - a utility for installing and upgrading software packages.
pkg_delete(1) - a utility for deleting previously installed software packages.
pkg_info(1) - a utility for displaying information about software packages.
pkg_create(1) - a utility for creating software packages.

@PatoSáinz So, good design, huh?

@FaheemMitha Debian is pretty ideological and conservative.

Anonymous

@FaheemMitha just look at the talks and papers Theo de Raadt publishes

The project leader gets a mixed press.

3:46 AM

amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/…

Anonymous

@FaheemMitha he is my lord and saviour

Anonymous

For anything server I just use Linux

@JourneymanGeek Idealogical yes. But conservative? They do a lot of experimentation. They had the world's first package management system.

I actually prefer fedora but my webstack is on Ubuntu LTS

Anonymous

For anything that I know needs to have record uptime, FreeBSD has some good history in favour of it

Anonymous

3:47 AM

For anything that needs to be secure, perform well in network, etc. OpenBSD (but it won't probably be fine if you have a rockstar node.js dev that needs X bleeding edge feature)

By "project leader", I meant "De Raadt", just to be clear.

Anonymous

@JourneymanGeek I don't really like ubuntu. and for server it's worse

@FaheemMitha they have long release cycles and their stable builds have older packages. Could go testing or did.

Anonymous

I don't really like the .deb side of linux

Anonymous

@FaheemMitha ya theo

3:48 AM

@JourneymanGeek Hmm. Well, yes. The stable release.

Anonymous

the guy who writes in comic sans for the page of LibreSSL

You don't have to use it if you don't want to. But it's worked well for me for a long time.

Anonymous

@FaheemMitha hell their whole versioning scheme is dominated by security erratas, so it's kind of LTS ultra secure

Lots of people use testing or even unstable. I use stable and backport what I need.

@PatoSáinz Who, Debian?

Anonymous

@FaheemMitha OpenBSD

3:49 AM

LTS == Long Term Support?

Anonymous

yes

@PatoSáinz Ah, ok.

Anonymous

OpenBSD has major.minor iirc but they release a couple of security erratas over time

@PatoSáinz I have a light, simple, reliable setup on Ubuntu. Switching distros would mean a lot of rebuilds. I also want to run some node.js stuff and the good third party repos are for Ubuntu.

Anonymous

applying those patches is dead easy and they don't break shit

Anonymous

3:51 AM

@JourneymanGeek ughguhgughughgug PPAs

Anonymous

I'd rather compile myself and either use containerization or red hat spacewalk, etc

Anonymous

Or sometimes projects themselves run their own repos

Meh. Or old school repo adding

Anonymous

yup

Compiling yourself is a pain. I do not do that outside one off application builds.

Anonymous

3:53 AM

There was also an utility that managed tarballs as if they were packages, full with its own manager made by GNU

Anonymous

@JourneymanGeek it's fun

Anonymous

and you end up deploying exactly what you want

It's not maintainable

Bob

"fun"

sigh

Anonymous

3:54 AM

@JourneymanGeek it is with if you've built your infrastructure well

Anonymous

of course I'd take a binary rpm/deb/whatever over a tarball anytime

Good infrastructure is boring eventually.

Welp, wound up going past my breaking point again a bit earlier.

Anonymous

@JourneymanGeek how's that?

I'm cooling down now, but I really hope this never happens again.

Jan 15 at 3:51, by bwDraco

Folks, this is what I mean when I say I tend to lose control of myself once in a while.

3:55 AM

@PatoSáinz basically anything that needs manual babysitting is bad.

Anonymous

@JourneymanGeek oh yeah

Anonymous

the best sysadmin is the lazy sysadmin

The problem with this approach is that it tends to fail in unexpected ways, requiring complex and difficult manual intervention.

Anonymous

@bwDraco I don't know what to recommend

Hell. I am pondering setting up updating ttrs as a scheduled task through cron

3:58 AM

@PatoSáinz Not sure if I'd agree. There's no often substitute for human intervention. I'd rather take a "hand-crafted" approach to things even if it involves a lot more work.

@JourneymanGeek Interesting perspective.

Anonymous

@bwDraco that doesn't scale