Language Overflow

Anonymous

12:32 AM

One of the examples in Martin's 1975 Reference Grammar of Japanese on p.140 is (if I may fiddle with the romanization a bit) futari=dake=zutsu=kara=sae=mo moraenai, and the English translation he gives is 'I can't even get any from each of just the two of them'

Anonymous

I thought the English sentence was interesting too :-)

StoneyB

@snailboat I have no idea how faithfully that reflects the Japanese, but I'd think the natural way of saying that sentence would be something like "I can't even get anything from either of those two."

Dave

1:10 AM

Hey, can I make a verb out of booby trap ?

The owner had someone booby trap those stairs.

Is this legit semi-formal written english ?

StoneyB

@Dave That's fine, though it's usually either hyphenated or compounded: booby-trap, boobytrap.

Dave

@StoneyB

thanks

StoneyB

@Dave You're welcome (or is it pas de quoi?)

Dave

informal french : "ya pas de quoi" or "ya rien la" or "c'est rien"

StoneyB

My French is after the school of Stratford-atte-Bowe, and almost that old.

Dave

1:24 AM

@StoneyB my friend I invite you to listent to some well deserved Chopin youtube.com/watch?v=wygy721nzRc

@StoneyB It will elevate my boobytrap' sentences to the next level.

StoneyB

Chopin is always soothing, even at his most flamboyant! Are you a musician as well as a mathematician, programmer and grammarian?

Dave

Fuck no.

:)

StoneyB

My goodness he do jes ripple on . . .

Dave

2:05 AM

@StoneyB you know what, now that I think of it, I think you were right with pas de quoi.

@StoneyB But I think we add a "ya" at the beginning in Quebec French

Damkerng T.

5:29 AM

6

Q: "Some things are better left unsaid." -- What are the grammatical functions of 'better', 'left' and 'unsaid'?

Some things are better left unsaid. This is the way I understand the sentence: [Some [things]] = subject [better] = predicative complement [left [unsaid]] = predicative adjunct 1 [unsaid] = predicative adjunct 2 But I'm not sure.

sentence-structure

Inspired by the question, I wonder if this sentence is acceptable: The chicken is good done this way.

Damkerng T.

5:50 AM

0

Q: What is the difference between "is + xxx-ed" and "will be xxx-ed"?

I am confused about "is xxx-ed" usage, Sample: the system design is translated into programming codes or the system design will be translated into programming codes Which one is correct? Plus, any explanation on this "is + past participle" issue would really be helpful.

present-participle

I still usually think of code like water, i.e., it's uncountable.

But I think I've seen people refer to each of that programming file as their code, so their codes would mean several pieces of their code.

Anonymous

I think it's weird to use code in that sense countably.

Anonymous

Though . . .

Damkerng T.

nods

Anonymous

Maybe I just haven't talked to the people who do that.

Damkerng T.

Good evening!

Ugh! *their programming files

Damkerng T.

6:07 AM

They do not mean the same thing. Something can make little sense and still be reasonable. — NES 5 mins ago

Um... I think I have a different opinion, given the OP's context.

0

Q: may not vs. must not

Source: Eloquent JavaScript: A Modern Introduction to Programming, 2nd Edition by Marijn Haverbeke Example: Variable names can be any word that isn't reserved as a keyword (such as var). They may not include spaces. Digits can also be part of variable names—catch22 is a valid name, for examp...

usage modal-verbs

Interesting! I think for a lot of native speakers, can can be used like may. The OP goes in another direction, may sounds like can to him!

Anonymous

6:26 AM

@DamkerngT. Sure, both can and may can be used to express deontic modality.

Anonymous

Really, for all native speakers, but it's possible to internalize a prescriptive rule and unlearn your own language.

Anonymous

3

A: Grammar in "prevent Saudi help"

Yes, Saudi is an adjective: adjective of or relating to Saudi Arabia or its inhabitants --Collins Dictionary. See also 18 other dictionary results. The definition and example sentences in Oxford should suffice to show that its usage is common and normal: adjective Relating to Sau...

Anonymous

I wonder if anyone could come up with an argument that Saudi is an adjective rather than a noun here.

Damkerng T.

By replacing it with some other word?

Anonymous

Sure! Let's try it:

Anonymous

6:29 AM

> prevent American help

Anonymous

> prevent America help

jimsug

There's this thing about separating form and function.

Also hai

\o

Damkerng T.

Hi!

It's been a while, I think. :-)

jimsug

But it really leads to few concrete things... as much of linguistics does.

Anonymous

The noun America can be used attributively sometimes, but in this case we expect the adjective American to appear.

Damkerng T.

6:30 AM

@snailboat nods

Anonymous

We don't have a contrast in form between Saudi and Saudi.

Anonymous

But maybe by analogy to other proper adjectives, we should say Saudi can be one.

Anonymous

Just bringing this up because the answer claimed it was an adjective but didn't actually try to demonstrate its adjective-ness or explain what it would mean if it was one

Anonymous

    122 (18% that) (              PAST  form)
    39  (49% that) (PLAIN/PRESENT       form - ambiguous whether it would agree with 3rd sg)
    15  (87% that) (PLAIN               form - does not agree with 3rd sg)
    10  (20% that) (PLAIN/PRESENT/PAST  form - ambiguous)
    4   (50% that) (      PRESENT       form - agrees with 3rd sg)

Anonymous

It's high time (that) . . .

Damkerng T.

6:37 AM

Ah, thanks! I tried to find it the other day!

Anonymous

Some examples are ambiguous, like time (that) we cut

Anonymous

So it's hard to catalogue.

Anonymous

There's actually a good amount of ambiguity, and it's not an especially frequent construction in the first place, which is probably why different speakers acquire it differently.

Damkerng T.

nods

Coming from another language, I expected the present simple before I learned about it.

Anonymous

The past form is the most common, but it seems that other forms are common in Standard English.

Anonymous

6:45 AM

It seems to vary with register. Above, I labeled one form the "plain" form, and that means forms like be. This "plain" form tends to show up in formal registers.

Anonymous

Actually, the level of formality correlates fairly well with how often that occurs.

Damkerng T.

Oh!

Anonymous

The breakdown above was for that-clauses ("expandable declarative content clauses"). But there were other types of complementation, too.

Anonymous

There were 71 examples with to-infinitival clauses as complements, 39% of which had subjects with for.

Anonymous

It's high time (for X) to Y.

Damkerng T.

6:53 AM

Which is more frequent, between: It's high time to do something and It's high time to have done something?

Maybe all of them are to dos.

Anonymous

I think you'll find very few examples of perfects in this construction.

Anonymous

More than none, but I don't think they're nearly as frequent.

Anonymous

7:12 AM

It's interesting to me which versions people declare to be Standard.

Anonymous

It seems to me that there are multiple standard choices.

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Maybe it's because it's around the edge of the language. (I mean, it's not used very frequently.)

Anonymous

Yeah. Which is not to say it's rare. It's just not one of the most common constructions.

Damkerng T.

nods

Anonymous

Besides which, when there's an overlap between forms (and there often is in English, as in this case), there's the potential to reanalyze things.

Anonymous

7:20 AM

A huge portion of the forms that I looked at were ambiguous.

Damkerng T.

I wonder what the speakers had in their minds when they spoke them. :D

Anonymous

See, I had a fairly strong intuition about that before I looked.

Anonymous

But now I'm convinced that different people think of it differently.

Anonymous

Especially after talking to people about the construction.

Damkerng T.

8:00 AM

Note that it's Be quiet. — Damkerng T. 26 secs ago

I remember that when I joined ELL, most answers would help correct this kind of error in learners' questions. It was almost always. Now it's not as often.

CopperKettle

8:36 AM

0

A: Which should be used among - "on foot" or "by foot"?

Neither of them are incorrect. I've heard people use both of them and I think it means the same.

"He went there by foot" -- ? O_o

Damkerng T.

o_O

Oh, I was about to buy it, because I saw some results of "there by foot" in Google Books!

The first link: Bachiesichang Dictionary of English Errors - Page 191

But when I clicked to see the page...

In any case, go there by foot or get there by foot seems to really be used by some supposed to be native speakers.

(in Google Books)

Damkerng T.

9:16 AM

> A minor controversy erupted in 2005 when some members of Northwestern University's national champion women's lacrosse team visited the White House wearing flip-flops. The team responded to critics by auctioning off their flip-flops on eBay, raising $1,653 for young cancer patient, Jaclyn Murphy of Hopewell Junction, New York, who was befriended by the team.[14] There is still a debate over whether this signaled a fundamental change in American culture — many youth feel that flip-flops are more dressy and can be worn in a variety of social contexts, while older generations feel that wearin…

Something about sandals and culture.

I know you may wonder how the flip-flops is about LO. Here's how.

> But language is never that simple. Ask some trendy teacher who wears flip-flops and gets the students to call him by his first name and he will tell you that we go by everything:
by eco-friendly Prius by vegan bicycle by methane powered bus by foot
http://www.icaltefl.com/on-foot-vs-by-foot

Anonymous

9:32 AM

By foot is okay.

Anonymous

I think that by foot and on foot tend to be used differently, though.

Damkerng T.

nods -- An ELU answer discusses it in length!

Oh, is there any difference in meaning?

Anonymous

Oh yeah? Link please! :-)

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. I don't actually think it's a difference in meaning.

Damkerng T.

22

Q: "By foot" vs. "on foot"

Which one is correct? I go to school by foot. I go to school on foot. Are there instances when the expression by foot is preferred? My last question is the following: Why is the singular noun, foot, used? If a person goes to school by bus/train/car they are using only on...

idioms prepositions by-on

Anonymous

9:35 AM

I think they mean the same thing, but by might be used in contrast with other by-phrases, and by is more often used when talking about distances (It's thirty minutes by foot).

2

Anonymous

But since the basic meaning is the same, I think these are just tendencies and you can probably use whichever.

Anonymous

That's my impression based on intuition and a couple minutes looking through corpora just now.

Anonymous

I haven't really looked very closely to make sure what I said holds up.

Anonymous

Seems right to me though :-)

Damkerng T.

> Second, Russian does not have a verb that means "to go." Instead, verbs of motion in Russian indicate the method of travel—by foot, by vehicle, by plane, by boat.

Hah!

Is that true? @CopperKettle (It's from one answer in the ELU question above.)

CopperKettle

9:47 AM

@DamkerngT. Yes, we don't have to go by boat, we say to swim on a boat

(or something like that)

He flew to Paris

(not that different from English)

Damkerng T.

Oh! This is really interesting!

tchrist

> One if by land, two if by sea.

Damkerng T.

nods -- But you don't say "go to Paris" in Russian?

CopperKettle

@DamkerngT. No, that would mean "he went by foot" (0:

Damkerng T.

LOL

CopperKettle

9:49 AM

Он пошел в Париж - haha. It's a long journey

He rode to Paris - "He went to Paris by car" (Он поехал в Париж)

Bye, @Snails!

"It's thirty minutes by foot" - nice.

Damkerng T.

@tchrist I'm not sure about the meaning, but it sounds nice.

tchrist

Oh!

Damkerng T.

One day by land, two by sea?

CopperKettle

I've just googled it..

tchrist

> Listen, my children, and you shall hear
Of the midnight ride of Paul Revere,
On the eighteenth of April, in Seventy-Five:
Hardly a man is now alive
Who remembers that famous day and year.

He said to his friend, “If the British march
By land or sea from the town to-night,
Hang a lantern aloft in the belfry-arch
Of the North-Church-tower, as a signal-light,--
One if by land, and two if by sea;
And I on the opposite shore will be,
Ready to ride and spread the alarm
Through every Middlesex village and farm,

2

CopperKettle

9:52 AM

"The words used by Henry Wadsworth Longfellow in his poem “ Paul Revere's Ride ” to describe the signal used to guide the “midnight ride of Paul Revere” at the start of the Revolutionary War. Revere had ordered two lanterns to be placed in a Boston church tower to warn his confederates that the British were on the move. Longfellow embellished the story a little."

Damkerng T.

Ahh

Thanks!

CopperKettle

10:12 AM

Chomsky was right: We do have a 'grammar' in our head

(but not the CGEL, of course)

Damkerng T.

I don't think he said we have a grammar in our head, or did he?

(I think he said something that has the word "innate" in it.)

To support Chomsky, I think the article title should've been: He was right! We do have the 'grammar' in our head

Maybe new studies of anything will follow this trend: lots of theories, lots of data, lots of stats, lots of conclusions.

Perhaps it may even follow the pattern used in software development: release first, release often

(In other words, it's all right to release software with lots of bugs, 'cause we can fix them soon.)

CopperKettle

I've never read Chomsky, so I cannot judge.. I'm not a MEG specialist to boot. (0:

Damkerng T.

I don't know about his idea that deep or that much either.

But the title is misleading, I think.

CopperKettle

It has to grab attention.

Damkerng T.

(Where else would we process or store any facilities that can process grammar in our body? Surely not our hands.)

@CopperKettle nods -- And when I read that kind of stuff, I usually think it's doubful.

tchrist

10:23 AM

It's 3:20am. Can't sleep. Raging banshee winds howling and shaking the house.

Damkerng T.

Oh, no!

CopperKettle

@tchrist We have strong winds too. At least had them during the night.

Damkerng T.

How strong is the wind?

tchrist

It says 60 mph but sounds worse.

So a mile a minute.

Damkerng T.

Oh, that'd be like a tornado!

(Not that I have been in one in real life.)

tchrist

10:25 AM

No, takes a couple times that or more.

Damkerng T.

nods

CopperKettle

Cool. Ours was only 38 km/h.

tchrist

Not much at all.

Damkerng T.

Talking about winds makes me worry a little.

CopperKettle

And it's extremely warm today, +0.4C

tchrist

10:25 AM

My cats are unhappy.

Oh you're right.

It's 50 right now.

That's bizarre.

Oh, these must be the chinooks.

CopperKettle

+10C = +50F

Damkerng T.

I have the tallest tree in my village, and it's really close to my house. I wonder how strong wind it can stand.

tchrist

Chinook wind

Chinook winds /ʃɪˈnʊk/, or simply chinooks, are foehn winds in the interior West of North America, where the Canadian Prairies and Great Plains meet various mountain ranges, although the original usage is in reference to wet, warm coastal winds in the Pacific Northwest. Chinook is claimed by popular folk-etymology to mean "ice-eater", but it is really the name of the people in the region where the usage was first derived. The reference to a wind or weather system, simply "a Chinook", originally meant a warming wind from the ocean into the interior regions of the Northwest of the USA (the Chinook...

2

Damkerng T.

Ah, gotta go! Be back later.

CopperKettle

@DamkerngT. "how strong wind" - hmm.. "I wonder how much wind"... hmm..

tchrist

10:27 AM

@CopperKettle Hm yeah.

CopperKettle

I'll also go and try to jog a bit.

tchrist

> The Chinook is a foehn wind, a rain shadow wind which results from the subsequent adiabatic warming of air which has dropped most of its moisture on windward slopes (orographic lift). As a consequence of the different adiabatic rates of moist and dry air, the air on the leeward slopes becomes warmer than equivalent elevations on the windward slopes.

I can try ear plugs I guess.

The cats need reassuring.

CopperKettle

We are in no danger of Chinook, we've only lowish hills here.

(0:

So my cat's nerves are safe. (0:

BBL!

tchrist

Daren't let the cats out in this.

Things are flying around dangerously.

Of course it is trash day in the morning.

CopperKettle

We've only snow flying around now. (0:

tchrist

10:32 AM

Our snow is being eaten.

Damkerng T.

10:56 AM

@CopperKettle Hmm... interesting. People seem to say "the wind is strong" while "how strong wind" virtually doesn't exists in Google Book. "too much wind" seems to be more common.

I can relate to your cats.

tchrist

> I wonder how strong (of) a wind it can withstand.

2

> I wonder how strong the wind is.

Needs an article in the middle.

Dunno why.

Damkerng T.

Ahh... wind is tricky!

Thanks for alternatives!

CopperKettle

11:11 AM

Yes, very interesting

Damkerng T.

Ahh... I made lots of typos today. In here and out there.

1

Q: he was a third member vs. he was the third member

In one documentary devoted to the French Revolution the narrator says (just after Saint Just and Lazare Carnot have been mentioned): A third member [of the Committee of Public Safety] was the crippled lawyer Couthon*. Why was not "the" used before "third"? P. S. In one of my previous pos...

articles numbers

I still can't figure out why a third.

The context seems to be about a specific point in time, during the formation of the committee. How many thirds did they have back then?

It's not like in baseball, I think, that we can have lots of seconds and thirds.

CopperKettle

11:44 AM

Russians make the most article errors

Damkerng T.

@CopperKettle Thanks for a good book! (I probably will read and finish this one before CGEL!)

CopperKettle

Nice! Seems like a good book.

Damkerng T.

Indeed! I'm lucky that it's on Safari Online.

CopperKettle

I failed at jogging today, limped back home from the far end of the park. Some strange pain in the lower calf.

Damkerng T.

Aww

CopperKettle

11:57 AM

I've been having it for a week, and thought it subsided enough to start jogging again.. but it got worse now. (0:

Damkerng T.

You jog too much, probably?

CopperKettle

I've been jogging for a couple of years almost daily, from 30 to 50 minutes. Not that much.

I thought I overstrained the muscle, but it should be over by now..

Doesn't look like tendinitis.

Damkerng T.

I hope it's nothing more than muscle soreness.

CopperKettle

I hope so too! (0:

I'll go to a doc, just to be sure. (0:

Damkerng T.

nods

CopperKettle

12:00 PM

Today was a great weather for jogging.. lots of snow and 0C

Some folks are playing football in the park. (0:

Damkerng T.

Sounds like a good weather over there.

CopperKettle

I like such weather. (0:

Damkerng T.

I can't say I like the same weather, but I'm happy for you. :D

CopperKettle

some photos of yesteday's heavy snowfall

Yesterday the park was like a fairy-tale forest, with all trees covered in snow.

Damkerng T.

The snow wasn't too thick to drive, I think.

It looks like that indeed!

CopperKettle

12:03 PM

It was, and still is. The streets are blocked, almost.

The traffick light has broken down near my house, and right now I can hear a policeman screaming commands to the cars

Damkerng T.

LOL

CopperKettle

It broke down because heavy snow accumulates eveywhere, including on power cables and information cables.

Yes, a traffick regulator policeman.

Several days ago, another traffick light failed on a busy street, and a guy left his car and regulated the traffic using a torchlight.

Damkerng T.

Do they work 24x7?

CopperKettle

The police thanked him afterwards

@DamkerngT. Traffic lights?

Damkerng T.

The policemen.

@CopperKettle Cool! He's a Samaritan.

CopperKettle

12:05 PM

@DamkerngT. Yes, I guess. But it's very unusual for them to stand at crossroads and manually regulate traffic.

Damkerng T.

@CopperKettle Not quite a fun job, I guess.

CopperKettle

@DamkerngT. Yes. Usually they pursue speeders and other violators.

This is right in the city's centre

Damkerng T.

That is really beautiful!

CopperKettle

Yes, a gazebo. (0:

Damkerng T.

A perfect location for shooting a fantasy movie, I'd say. :D

CopperKettle

12:08 PM

(0:

Here's the traffic regulator hero. (0:

Екатеринбуржец взял на себя роль регулировщика и разрулил пробку

►

Damkerng T.

He even had his own flashlight!

CopperKettle

Many people have their own here, I even have one that you can wear over your hat. Some people jog with such flashlights, because it gets dark early.

So while I'm jogging I sometimes see a bobbing light ahead of me. (0:

That's another jogger. (0:

Damkerng T.

:D

CopperKettle

But mine is too strong and too focused, one needs a more wide-angled one.

BBL!

Damkerng T.

o/

Damkerng T.

1:49 PM

1

Q: Do I need "some" in "If the weather is not so good, I read a book or some news"?

During my lunch break, I usually go for a walk. If the weather is not so good, I read a book or some news. Can we omit some here? During my lunch break, I usually go for a walk. If the weather is not so good, I read a book or news. For some reason, the first sentence looks better to me...

determiner

This one is Question of the Day for me.

CopperKettle

0

A: Do I need "some" in "If the weather is not so good, I read a book or some news"?

Most of this is idiomatic, so bear with me: Good news. Bad news. Get me some good news. This isn't news. I'll be sitting in that chair reading (or watching) the news. Lots of things can be accomplished during one's lunch our. I normally take a long walk on my lunch hour. I usually read a bo...

An ebullient answer, but I'm at a loss regarding its meaning.

@DamkerngT. Thanks! I was proofreading at lang-8 and one text got me curious.

Damkerng T.

It's also a good example why a grammatical sentence can sound odd in the wrong context.

> Q: How can I refer to a single item of news?
A: You can use news on its own, or say some news or, less frequently, a piece of news.
"I’ve got some news that may cheer you up."
http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/news

I think this explains why "some news" goes well with "a book". It doesn't explain why we don't say "I read a book or news", though.

CopperKettle

nods

Damkerng T.

2:05 PM

The question also echoes a lot of things mentioned in the book you linked to earlier today!

"But constraints on the use of the indefinite article do not always depend on countability. They can also depend on the semantic class of the noun."

I think we can say that "some news", "the news", and "news" belong to different semantic classes.

CopperKettle

2:22 PM

Although most DVT is occult and resolves spontaneously without complication, death from DVT-associated massive pulmonary embolism (PE) causes as many as 300,000 deaths annually in the United States

That's almost as much as the US lost in WW2 (420 000).

Wow.

I've been reading up on causes of calf pain, and found some disporting light read articles.

CopperKettle

3:19 PM

0

Q: Relations between clauses

PLEASE HELP...I can't figure out what are these reationships...

grammar

Homework alert.

Damkerng T.

3:48 PM

in ELL's Cabin, 1 min ago, by Damkerng T.

I don't get the edits by the OP, so I think I'm gonna leave the question alone.

I read news sounds absolutely okay to me. — Maulik V ♦ 3 hours ago

Interesting that the comment got two upvotes. Maybe he's got some followers. Or maybe the reader may think his I read news is used in another context, irrelevant to the question.

Upvoting his comment like this makes it look like Jay's and Ricky's answers are not as good as his comment.

Though, of course, careful readers would look beyond our votes.

CopperKettle

6:15 PM

"And every weekday, for nine years, Harold would complete 7.134 tax files as a senior auditor for the Internal Revenue Service... only taking a 45.7-minute lunch break and a 4.3-minute coffee break. Timed precisely by his wristwatch." (Stranger Than Fiction) -- No need to use we. — Damkerng T. 4 mins ago

"No need to use we"? O_o

Damkerng T.

@CopperKettle As Maulik suggested.

CopperKettle

Ah. (0:

Damkerng T.

I've just rechecked that scene again; I think the script is a little different from the actual narrative used in the movie.

CopperKettle

nods

Damkerng T.

I think "only taking a 45.7 minutes lunch break and 4.3 minutes coffee break" is from the script. (It was from an old message in this room, when I first watched the movie.)

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

6:19 PM

sdon

Damkerng T.

In the movie, "nine years" become "twelve years".

And it's clear that she didn't say "s" after the two minutes.

CopperKettle

BBL

Hi, Muhammad!

Damkerng T.

(BTW, I fixed only this part "only taking a 45.7-minute lunch break and a 4.3-minute coffee break" according to the movie.)

See you around.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

6:38 PM

\o

Damkerng T.

I'm not sure she is a native speaker. It is hard to tell, because she's singing, not speaking. She rolled her "r" in "oar" quite a lot. — TRomano 4 hours ago

I hadn't listened to the song.

Phonics Song with TWO Words - A For Apple - ABC Alphabet Songs with Sounds for Children

►

But after listening to it, I think I doubt whether she's really a native speaker.

Her pronunciation is passable, I think.

CopperKettle

Pattinapakkam, Kuil Thoppu, Mylapore, Chennai, Tamil Nadu

Damkerng T.

Some clues I think I have are: the melody, which isn't quite compatible with English phonology, the choice of "guh, guh, guh", "ruh, ruh, ruh", and her pronunciation of "yacht".

CopperKettle

(The address of the company that posted that video)

Damkerng T.

Oh, I see.

CopperKettle

6:42 PM

I like Indian pronunciation, actually. The rhotic r's.

Damkerng T.

I can't tell whether her "nose" is an "s" or "z" on my loudspeakers.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

India.

Damkerng T.

nods -- I thought it could be an /r/ from some other dialects I'm not familiar with, so I left some possibilities open.

It's usually more difficult to tell in songs and in speech.

0

Q: Types of distribution

Could anyone explain (with examples) what is contrastive, non-contrastive and complementary distribution?

grammar

Oh, this question is too weird; it's beyond my imagination!

I remember that it started out as a question about functional grammar...

How did it end up as a phonology question?!

CopperKettle

The same OP who posted scans of pages with text.

Damkerng T.

nods

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

6:51 PM

> pls explain me what is grammar and what does it contain pls halp thxbai

CopperKettle

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. Sure, here's a link to CGEL and here's a link to Quirk et al. Cheers, thxbai. Oh, and here's a list of psychiatric clinics in case you master both books.

(0:

Damkerng T.

It was more complicated than that. It used some specific terms found only in systemic functional grammar.

CopperKettle

7:07 PM

A great answer that made me finally realize what exactly the OP was asking about

1

A: Order of placing clauses in a two-clause sentence

Yes, this "so" is an anaphor and it demands an antecedent. Normally, an antecedent precedes the anaphor -- which is the reason we call it an antecedent. However, there is a case when the so-called antecedent follows the anaphor in sentence structure. Your first example is a good example of...

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

2

Q: Rating negative before commenting?

Ok, so today I got one of my answers rated negative because something was wrong on it. Perhaps, before immediately rating negative a post, a comment should be posted to edit it. (Like a suggestion.) What is the criterion to downvote? If I saw something wrong, I'd post to correct, improve or giv...

discussion down-votes

I get it . . .

I should only answer general meta posts.

Damkerng T.

@CopperKettle nods -- I think the OP thinks a bit too linearly.

Or sequentially. Sequentially seems like a better word.

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. LOL

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Any move trying to do something constructive on ELL using its meta is doomed to fail.

Damkerng T.

It's democracy, which could be somewhat crazy, and would depend on where the majority or the representatives of the majority will take us to.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

7:36 PM

This is certainly interesting.

I remember seeing sentences like

> I don't know how hard an exam I'm going to take tomorrow.

Damkerng T.

I think I'd write I don't know how hard an exam I'm going to take tomorrow is...

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Yeah.

-1

A: ATP break down and energy release?

jcfdfanskjrdgnlafnglakjdnlrkntglkdfnglkdnfgklndfgndf,mgnd kgdlkjgldnfg gdfklgjlfgldn fg djfngldnfmlg d dkfgdjfgpkejl;gjkldfmg fgldfgkljdfjtlemgld fgldkjgldjgkljdoptg

Damkerng T.

but I think this is even likelier: I don't know how hard the exam I'm going to take tomorrow is.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Snarkiest comment I ever left. ^^^

Damkerng T.

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. What?!

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. Hehe!

CopperKettle

7:51 PM

3

A: What is the origin of "GO + VERB + ING"?

“To go hunting” derives from an older form such as to go a-hunting. Wiktionary has an article on this a-gerund under the headline a- -ing. Wiktionary says this prefix a- was the form on. I'm not so sure. Theoretically this prefix might derive from various prepositions at, to, on, in. Originally ...

(I was looking for related questions for this), and stumbled upon this nice historical explanation)

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

O_O— @Snail do you happen to have posted a [deleted] answer in this thread?

8

Q: Using plural or singular verb after "neither" and "none"

With reference to "Neither", "none", "no one" + [of them] + verb-s None of the above sentences is strictly correct. Neither of the above sentence/sentences is/are strictly correct. Tense choice problem The person has used are with none. This contradicts above notion of using singular...

pronouns verb-forms

BTW @Dam one day I'm gonna ask you to help me summarize good stuff in the chatrooms. :P The template I had in mind is revealed, and you can improve it:

<chatroom name> — <date of the interesting stuff>
Keywords: <keywords> (Used primarily for searching)
Description: <whatever you like to post>

Damkerng T.

I may if I have enough time, but feel free to summarize any topic you like in the abstract room.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Currently I'm interested in 2013/3/29. @Snail seems to have an answer there, a deleted one.

Damkerng T.

You can see deleted posts, right?

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Yes.

There's only one deleted post, from a deleted user.

Damkerng T.

8:00 PM

Good, good. I wasn't sure.

Anonymous

8:23 PM

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. No, user485 does

Anonymous

But you just said you can see that yourself, right?

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Yes.

Anonymous

So did I misunderstand what you were asking?

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Oh. I misunderstood your old chat message.

Catija

... have you ever deleted an account on ELL?

Anonymous

8:25 PM

I have not.

Anonymous

I'm still on my first Stack Exchange account, and I've never had it deleted from any sites :-)

Anonymous

And I've never asked SE to dissociate any posts from my account.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

4

Q: "Neither", "none", "no one" + [of them] + verb-s

In a comment on English Language & Usage I read the following answer responding to a(n) asker's question: "Neither sound natural." I have always had more than one doubt on the "neither" usage and I would like understand(ing) the "secrets" to use this word better or, at the best, correctly. So,...

word-choice grammaticality

Here it is.

Anonymous

Ah, I did delete a post there

Anonymous

Early on, I thought I would try to accommodate his wishes since he wanted to know the prescriptive answer, but then I realized it was kind of dumb to do so.

Anonymous

8:28 PM

So I deleted it.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@Snailboat, prescriptive answer. @Snailboat, prescriptive answer. Snailboat, prescriptive answer? @Snailboat, prescriptive answer?

O_O

Anonymous

Did I make your brain explode?

Anonymous

My usual attitude is that it can be useful to be aware of prescriptive rules in cases where they differ from normal usage.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

No. I don't have a brain. It's just electron cloud density.

Anonymous

There are a few reasons you might want to.

Anonymous

8:32 PM

① Learners may be asked to produce prescriptively correct English on tests.

Anonymous

② More importantly, prescriptive rules often influence attitudes toward language use.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@snailboat They are asked. e.g. me.

Anonymous

And you want to be able to control the attitudes people have toward your own language.

Anonymous

Unfortunately, there is no single, coherent "prescriptively correct English".

Anonymous

Different people say that you should do different things.

Anonymous

8:34 PM

What it boils down to is "Some people believe X, though that isn't so; some people believe Y, though that isn't so; and some people believe Z, and this belief has influenced the language to some extent."

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

> Historically the gerund and present participle of traditional grammar have different
sources, but in Modern English the forms are identical. No verb shows any difference in
form in the constructions of [14] and [19], not even be. The historical difference is of
no relevance to the analysis of the current inflectional system, and in accordance with
principle [51] we reject an analysis that has gerund and present participle as different
forms syncretised throughout the class of verbs.

Anonymous

It's all very complicated to keep track of.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Ahh

Anonymous

Sure, that's CGEL's argument for giving the -ing form a single (rather unwieldy) name.

Anonymous

CGEL's analysis of -ing forms is actually pretty good.

Anonymous

8:36 PM

Unfortunately a lot of the relevant bits are sort of spread out through the book.

Anonymous

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. If you look back, you can definitely find low quality contributions of mine, especially if you look at deleted posts.

Anonymous

2013 snailboat was a dumb snailboat, more so than 2015 snailboat :-)

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

I should ask @Dam to pin that. ^

Anonymous

Thanks ;-)

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Well, about me we don't need to go that far. The me three months ago was a little foolish scumbag with bad questions and worse answers.

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