The Nineteenth Byte

Anonymous

4:00 PM

Agreed, but that KOTH was specifically Java

TheDoctor

code-bowling

Anonymous

We should ban challenges that require using Java on the grounds of human rights violations

2

Dennis

@Mego I thought the tape was supposed to be infinite? The spec may call unmatched brackets whatever it wants, but they are still syntax errors...

aditsu

I like java

TheDoctor

^_-

Anonymous

4:03 PM

@Dennis The original spec had 30k cells which wrapped on both ends. And though unmatched brackets may be a syntax error, the original interpreter had no syntax checking, and called it a runtime error when it happened. Most modern implementations have infinite-ish tapes and check for unmatched brackets.

Anonymous

A dumb but easier to verify variation on BF would be to define the brackets as jumping to the next or previous bracket, rather than the matched bracket

Anonymous

Then any program that had either 0 brackets or at least 1 of each kind would be valid

Anonymous

Emphasis on dumb though

Dennis

Hm, according to Esolangs, this is the original implementation. 5k cells, no wrapping.

(I find it hard to believe. It has a # instruction I've never heard of...)

Anonymous

# is a common extension that prints out the tape (or part of the tape), mainly used for debugging

Anonymous

4:11 PM

"Urban Müller's compiler used an array of 30000 cells 8bit cells"

Anonymous

Since it's in assembly, the exact way it functions depends a lot on your processor

Anonymous

But the standard interpretation is 30k unsigned 8-bit cells, with tape pointer wrapping

Geobits

@Mego If I wasn't so lazy today I'd write up a challenge in response to this. But I am, so maybe some other time.

Dennis

@Mego I looked at the interpreter, not the compiler. Didn't realize they were different...

Anonymous

@Geobits What kind of challenge would you write?

Anonymous

4:16 PM

@Dennis Yep, the interpreter uses 5k cells, no wrapping, with signed 8-bit integer cells, and has that # instruction

Anonymous

So '>'*5000 is a runtime error

Geobits

I dunno. Too lazy to come up with specifics. It wouldn't be too hard to think of something Java-only, though.

I'd make sure to quote your comment at the top, though, so you'd get all the inspiration credit ;)

Anonymous

@Geobits Maybe do a variation of the Seriously challenge? Take code as input, output ಠ_ಠ if the code is valid Java code

Dennis

Write a Hello World! program that is longer than 50 bytes and contains no non-functional code?

Anonymous

@Dennis Better make it 50k bytes so only proper industry code is acceptable. Factory patterns everywhere!

Dennis

4:19 PM

(I'm really digging the downvote pumpkin, by the way.)

Geobits

:D

Anonymous

(It's pretty great, I love all of our Halloween avatars)

Anonymous

(such festive very spoopy wow amazign)

Dennis

When did Firefox 41 come out, me wonders.

Anonymous

Probably some time after Firefox 40

Dennis

4:23 PM

Aha, September 22.

I guess this means I should remove the Firefox links from my answers, since they no longer work with the latest FF...

quartata

TIL that the first argument in C# is actually the executable

I was so confused why my interpreter wasn't working so I decided to print out the "code" it was reading

Anonymous

Same for C/C++

Dennis

And Bash.

Anonymous

^

Anonymous

And anything that follows that precedent

quartata

4:25 PM

I thought this was supposed to be a rip-off of Java though.

Java doesn't do that.

Dennis

See? Java does it wrong.

Anonymous

Java doesn't do what basically every other language does. Shocking, I know.

Dennis

java-is-wrong

Anonymous

Wait until you see what it does with string comparisons

Anonymous

alex-is-java

2

Dennis

4:26 PM

apply-transitivity

quartata

@Mego Strings are objects. So it makes sense for it to use .equals

Anonymous

Python does argv a little weirdly when you pass a script with -c, though - sys.argv[0]=='-c'

quartata

python-is-wrong

java-is-right

2

Doorknob

everything-is-wrong

quartata

c#-is-java-but-is-still-wrong

Anonymous

4:30 PM

@quartata To me, it would have made more sense to have == be value comparison, and .equals be a final method of Object that does reference comparison

Anonymous

ban-quartata

quartata

@Mego That would have taken effort.

Anonymous

I know

quartata

== already inherently compares values on the stack (i.e addresses in the case of objects)

Why change the meta

Anonymous

Because == in C/C++ is value comparison

Doorknob

4:31 PM

because str1.equals(str2) is ugly

TheDoctor

^

Anonymous

Because Java is ugly

quartata

@Mego That's because it has operator overloading.

Anonymous

@quartata A feature that is sadly missing from Java

quartata

@Doorknob It's pretty because it's logical.

Doorknob

4:32 PM

no it's not >.>

(of course, that's subjective)

TheDoctor

[master d41de5d] and a rudimentary sqlite3 databse, yo

Dennis

To be fair, Python has other issues.

Anonymous

We can't have alex-is-java and java-is-right on the starboard! That's inconsistent!

Dennis

>>> 100 + 100 is 200
True
>>> 200 + 200 is 400
False

quartata

You shouldn't be using anything other than functions to manipulate objects by definition.

Doorknob

4:32 PM

@TheDoctor Excellent commit message

quartata

That's how pure OOP works.

Anonymous

@Dennis Integer cache

quartata

It's abstraction.

Doorknob

@quartata Pure OOP is POOP

7

literally

TheDoctor

lol

@Dennis the is operator compares type

quartata

4:33 PM

@Doorknob Be that as it may, java-is-right

3

Doorknob

java-is-java

2

quartata

It's not really subjective. It's just how it works.

Anonymous

Forcing OOP as the only allowable design paradigm is terrible

Anonymous

@TheDoctor Actually it compares reference equality

Dennis

Hey, why do YOU get to be the president of Tautology Clu-- wait, I can guess.

4

Doorknob

4:34 PM

@Mego Why would you use Java if you don't want to use OOP?

3

quartata

@ThomasKwa tell them why equals() must exist in order for Java to be a pure OOP language

Thomas Kwa

what? Why me?

Anonymous

@Doorknob Because sometimes the person that signs your paychecks tells you to

quartata

Because you know Java and you just joined in the middle of a giant flamewar

2

TheDoctor

why not python's __equals__() ?

quartata

4:35 PM

@Dennis lol

Doorknob

@Mego heh, fair point

TheDoctor

WHICH ==

Anonymous

Even though OOP is not always the best tool for the job

Anonymous

@TheDoctor (obj.__equals(obj2)) == (obj == obj2)

TheDoctor

i know

Anonymous

4:35 PM

Oh

Anonymous

I started typing and stopped reading

TheDoctor

do you mean __equals__( ?

Geobits

@Mego Weird how other languages can also be used for those cases, huh?

quartata

@Mego python-is-wrong

TheDoctor

@quartata nuuuu

Anonymous

4:36 PM

@Geobits See above about paychecks

quartata

Just sayin

aditsu

java 8 is somewhat functional

Geobits

@Mego Sure, I get that. I have to use the occasional JS for work. So it's hard for me to feel bad for someone using Java.

Anonymous

My point is, sometimes you have to write a solution in Java because you aren't given a choice by the powers that be, even though OOP isn't the best tool for the job

Geobits

I know, but that doesn't mean Java is wrong, it means your boss (or his boss, etc) is wrong.

Anonymous

4:39 PM

@Geobits Yeah, and he loves hearing that :P

Geobits

:D

Dennis

@Doorknob LET'S SEE IF I UNDERSTOOD YOUR CAPS LOCK CHALLENGE CORRECTLY. THE STRING #xX# xX SHOULD BE RETURNED UNCHANGED, CORRECT?

Anonymous

I can't ever find the downvote button on my boss's emails

6

Dennis

Haha.

Geobits

@Mego Just paste an image of one in the reply.

Anonymous

4:40 PM

@Geobits I find ಠ_ಠ works well, too

Geobits

I can imagine.

Doorknob

@Dennis YES, THAT IS CORRECT, BECAUSE THE FIRST WORD DOES NOT CONTAIN TWO LETTERS THAT WOULD BE CONSIDERED CAPS-LOCKED.

Anonymous

I propose we put a rest to this Java discussion/argument/flamewar and hate on a language we can all agree is awful

Doorknob

PHP?

Geobits

This caps lock challenge is ruining both main and chat >_>

Dennis

4:41 PM

THAT MEANS THE OTHER TWO ANSWERS ARE WRONG. other-answers-are-wrong

Doorknob

@Geobits D:

TheDoctor

@Geobits YES

Doorknob

@Dennis OH, I SHOULD ADD THAT AS A TEST CASE THEN. THANKS

Anonymous

alphamicro.com/dss10/07300a05.pdf

Dennis

DON'T MENTION IT!

Anonymous

4:41 PM

I had to use this at my old job

Anonymous

It managed to make BASIC even more basic

Anonymous

Like, pumpkin-spice-latte basic

TheDoctor

@Mego a really great embedded language is SPIN

Anonymous

@TheDoctor That's the one with the Dalek bicycles, right?

TheDoctor

[finds link]

parallax.com/sites/default/files/downloads/… starts on page 35

@Mego no

Anonymous

4:44 PM

2 days ago, by Geobits

   __o
 _`\<,_
(_)/ (_)

Anonymous

Dalek bicycle

TheDoctor

lol

Anonymous

Finally a new main post that's not awful

TheDoctor

which one?

Anonymous

1

Q: *Language name* is awesome!

Write a program in any language that reads input from stdin and outputs a slightly modified output to stdout. The program should borrow some characters from the input and output as large of a prefix as possible of *language-name* is awesome! followed by a newline and then what's left of the input...

code-golf

VTCAKAVSMoACE

4:47 PM

The conversation 15 minutes ago leads us to the conclusion:
Java is Wrong
Alex is Java
therefore
Alex is Wrong

Anonymous

@VTCAKAVSMoACE Except where quartata claimed java-is-right and python-is-wrong, which ultimately proves that quartata-is-alex-and-therefore-wrong

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

What time is it again? ascii-artpopularity-contestdatetime The Inspiration The Challenge I'm tired of seeing the same old-same old clock in my top-right-hand corner of my screen. It's time for a new clock. While the clock clock sated my lack of interesting clock for a little while, it simply ...

VTCAKAVSMoACE

I saw a lonely tag called datetime and decided to give it a challenge. :D

New Main Posts

2

Q: *Language name* is awesome!

Write a program in any language that reads input from stdin and outputs a slightly modified output to stdout. The program should borrow some characters from the input and output as large of a prefix as possible of *language-name* is awesome! followed by a newline and then what's left of the input...

code-golf

TheDoctor

codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/61661/16472 first

Anonymous

4:53 PM

@NewMainPosts Slow as always

Anonymous

@TheDoctor Nope, you're supposed to print out as much of "<name> is awesome!" as you can from the input

TheDoctor

oh right

wait...

VTCAKAVSMoACE

@NewSandboxedPosts No comments or suggestions?

Anonymous

@VTCAKAVSMoACE Haven't looked at it yet

VTCAKAVSMoACE

Oh, okie.

TheDoctor

5:16 PM

fixed it

Dennis

Doesn't raw_input() read only a single line?

quartata

@Mego wat

Honestly, I'm somewhat surprised my craps challenge hasn't gotten more answers. It's fairly easy.

Maybe that's why...

aditsu

nevermind, I think I read it wrong :p

quartata

5:32 PM

btw @Doorknob you never revealed the code to your snowman Mystery String Printer

Doorknob

oh yeah that exists

ok, there

TheDoctor

Python makes it too hard to read stdin

Dennis

Always nice to see your answer downvoted, leaving you wondering if there's something wrong with it or if somebody just dislikes it for some personal reason...

Yay, the first downvote started a trend!

TheDoctor

I think it's a personal dislike of golfing languages...

Dennis

You should know. :P

quartata

6:02 PM

What answer was it?

I didn't know you ever got downvotes. I thought you could cast Protection from Downvotes at will.

@Dennis how could you possibly have already hit the rep cap for today

Dennis

Haha. Sadly, that's not a thing.

quartata

I'm lucky if I even get a single upvote on my answers...

Dennis

0

A: *Language name* is awesome!

Pyth, 37 bytes .-Jjb.zpef!.-TJ+,kb+Rb._"pyth is awesome! The source code is 41 bytes long. Try it online.

quartata

@Dennis oic

Strange.

Dennis

@quartata Already? Some days, I hit the rep cap before going to bed. :P

quartata

6:05 PM

Maybe try changing the title to 41 - 6 = 37 bytes

Maybe someone got confused by the source code is 41 bytes long and downvoted it for some reason

Dennis

29 mins ago, by TheDoctor

I think it's a personal dislike of golfing languages...

quartata

Strange

Just saw this challenge codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/61618/…

Too bad I got beaten to the ez perl answer

Dennis

Not that strange. I've gotten plenty unexplained downvotes for CJam/Pyth answers before...

quartata

If I knew .NET regex I'd do one in Retina.

@Dennis I just don't see why though. They're cool languages.

Dennis

Some people consider using golfing languages cheating, since they were specifically designed for code golf. IMHO that's like considering the use of a screwdriver cheating when the task it to tighten a screw, but whatever.

quartata

6:12 PM

It's only cheating if it is one byte.

Even then sometimes it isn't.

Dennis

@Mego What's the purpose of the [:-1] in your code? I think it should be removed.

Anonymous

@Dennis sys.stdin.read() appends a trailing newline

TheDoctor

Some day I'll design hq9+ with oop to make it hq9++

Anonymous

Don't you mean HQ9+++?

Dennis

@Mego It shouldn't. The shell might, depending on how you invoke the program.

Anonymous

6:21 PM

@Dennis It was when I was testing it

Dennis

Well, how did you test it?

TheDoctor

Control d should work amirite?

Anonymous

echo -e 'abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz\n0123456789' | python golf.py

Dennis

echo appends a linefeed. You need echo -n.

Or echo -ne, in this case.

Anonymous

The ideone also works as expected with my code

El'endia Starman

6:23 PM

@TheDoctor HQ9++ exists already!

TheDoctor

With oop?

El'endia Starman

esolangs.org/wiki/HQ9%2B%2B

> It adds the following instruction: ++: Increment the accumulator twice, and instantiate an object of a new sub class of the generic super class. Due to the best principles of object hiding, this object cannot be accessed in any way.

TheDoctor

Lulz

Dennis

@Mego Confirmed, Ideone automatically appends a linefeed to the input. It's not supposed to though. With the [:-1], it won't work when invoked correctly.

(I'm proposing to remove 5 bytes. Stop fighting this. :P)

Anonymous

I wasn't trying to fight, I was simply explaining why I did it

Anonymous

6:27 PM

:P

Dennis

ideone-is-wrong

Anonymous

Lol

Anonymous

Fixed it, thanks man

quartata

@Dennis is-anyone-surprised

Anonymous

no

Dennis

6:29 PM

i-am-not

Anonymous

carrot

Dennis

(Most online interpreters are awful. Ideone is no exception.)

quartata

Then why do you always encourage people to Try it online.?

Dennis

CJam's and Pyth's online interpreters work surprisingly well. The only issue I could find was with some unprintable characters and the FF permalink issue (both due to the browsers, not the actual interpreters).

El'endia Starman

I'd like to contend that Minkolang's online interpreter works pretty well too! :P

Dennis

6:33 PM

Appending a linefeed to input read via sys.stdin is a blatant and unnecessary deviation from the spec. Ideone is also unusable from my phone.

SuperJedi224

Hi guys

Dennis

@El'endiaStarman Isn't it amusing when an interpreter of a for-fun language works better than some do-this-online big shot? :P

Hello!

El'endia Starman

Haha, yeah...

quartata

Sneak peek of a new language? Perhaps. 1As{3%!"Fizz"~5%!"Buzz">N=?~N<}\

Dennis

May I?

quartata

6:37 PM

Go ahead.

Why was it broken?

El'endia Starman

Ahh, sneaky backslash...

quartata

Ohhh...

Dennis

A backslash escapes a single tick. Double ticks are your friend here.

quartata

Anyways, I bet you can't guess what that does. /sarcasm

El'endia Starman

I'm trying to figure out how. :P

SuperJedi224

6:40 PM

Just published another update to my java library.

You guys have any feature suggestions for the next revision?

Anonymous

@quartata Primality test, right?

quartata

@Mego Hehe

New Main Posts

3

Q: Have you learned your fib-abc?

I don't like numbers, but I do like the fibonacci sequence. I'm sure we could work something out. Please read one integer n from stdin and output the n:th fibonacci number in base26 (abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz instead of 0123456789) to stdout. The first fibonacci number is zero. The second one...

code-golf fibonacci

Dennis

That won't work correctly for multiples of 15.

quartata

@Dennis It will.

It'll push both Fizz and Buzz.

SuperJedi224

6:42 PM

Well, new main posts is a few minutes behind, I see.

El'endia Starman

@quartata Ah-ha! It's a stack based language! Thought so! :P

quartata