TRPG General Chat

Shalvenay

00:36

in 3.x -- can Dispel/Disjunction strip Su effects? (such as a druid wildshape or thousand faces)

Oblivious Sage

00:53

@Shalvenay sounds like a good question for the actual site rather than chat

Iron Heart

@Shalvenay Straight-up, supernatural effects are not spells, aren't spell-like. Thus, dispelling would not dispel it.

It's magic, but it isn't spell-shaped.

Ask it on the site if you like.

Shalvenay

01:29

I'll ask on the site -- but my research indicates that 3.0 lets you due to DMG errata, but 3.5 doesn't

Sandwich

02:11

Ironheart is correct

Think of supernatural abilities as like.. alien stuff

Like a Doppelgangers ability to change shape

Your Disjunction can't pull them out of their form because it isnt a magical effect

Its an effect caused by their own physiology

Iron Heart

02:33

@Sandwich It is, strictly speaking, magic, and shut down by an anti-magic field. It just isn't a spell.

Sandwich

If you call it magic you're just going to confuse him though

Because calling it magic implies it can be dispelled or disjoined

Iron Heart

No, there is legitimately a distinction that needs to be made, magic is not spells. The sooner it's learned, the better.

Spells are part of magic, but not all of magic.

A monk uses magic to perfect themself, but they aren't casting spells to do it.

KRyan

@IronHeart is correct; Su is magical (literally the first line in the description is this:

> Supernatural abilities are magical and go away in an antimagic field but are not subject to spell resistance, counterspells, or to being dispelled by dispel magic.

doppelgreener

02:52

I just learned about Iron Heroes, which is like D&D without reliance on high magic spellcasting or items. Sounds like a cool concept, and has a brilliant quote:

> You are not your magic weapon and armor. You are not your spell buffs. You are not how much gold you have, or how many times you've been raised from the dead. When a Big Bad Demon snaps your sword in two, you do not cry because that was your holy avenger. You leap onto its back, climb up to its head, and punch it in the eye, then get a new damn sword off of the next humanoid you headbutt to death.

2

Forrestfire

There's also the thing that "magic" in the sense of things that break rules of our own reality is very different from "Magic" in-universe.

... no wait, that's not relevant here.

ignore me.

Iron Heroes d20 is an awful system, btw. Terribly-designed and incredibly clunky. Which is a shame; I checked it out after seeing an ad in Dragon Magazine way back

Shalvenay

also, some spells in D&D have rather...interesting consequences on the world

Reverse Gravity, for instance, implies that conservation of momentum doesn't hold in Faerun at least some of the time. :P

Forrestfire

Nail to the Sky implies that you can escape the planet's gravitational pull with just a fly speed.

Shalvenay

@Forrestfire I'd allow it, but you'd need an awfully high fly speed ;)

Forrestfire

the 3.5 DMG has that "like reality except when the fluff or rules breaks physics" blurb, I guess.

(mind, I have assembled ways to reach the escape velocity of Earth in 3.5)

(but you'd need, amusingly, a reverse gravity spell to pull it off)

(since I could only get to it in a dive)

Shalvenay

03:02

@Forrestfire hahaha

Forrestfire

a better way is to use Explosive Spell apocalypse from the sky

and an animated object orion starship.

jump yourself 200+ miles into the air by casting it below your target.

Shalvenay

@Forrestfire HAHAHA

Forrestfire

(or... greater teleport. But that's boring)

Shalvenay

yeah, greater teleport is boring when you can strap yourself to a giant trash bin o' boom instead ;)

Forrestfire

an invulnerable animated object starship covered with spell clocks of explosive spell apocalypse from the sky is much more fun!

Shalvenay

03:04

also, line to summarize the limitations of dragonflight in D&D: "Dragons don't do dirty double Immelmans"

Forrestfire

dirty double Immelmans?

Shalvenay

foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/… <-- about 7 minutes into the video embedded here

Forrestfire

damn those planes are cool

Shalvenay

foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/… << jump down to under "THe final year of the demo and the Tomcat's sundown were bitter sweet" for some more

Forrestfire

aha

user507974

03:37

Hey guys

I'm going to be DMing a 5e game in a month or so time when i meet back up with some friends

and one guy really wants to play an inventor

i was thinking of penning an archetype for a class but do you guys think any of them really fit the bill?

main classes having an inventor archetype

that is

doppelgreener

@Forrestfire That is a pity. :(

Miniman

05:43

@user507974 There definitely isn't a class that resembles that at all, but fair warning - I think you'll find it extremely difficult to make one, especially if you're even vaguely concerned about balance.

It's a character concept which might just be a straight mismatch for the system.

doppelgreener

06:05

"Inventor" does not in general strike me as a D&D-ish thing.

Previous editions had something like the Artificer where you can craft a whole load of items, but in general unless your game's story supports the invention aspect, they're things that are widely available and which already exist that you just learned how to also make.

Being an inventor is probably not much of a big deal in a system where all material items come from predefined lists. It's going to be a bigger deal in a system that instead puts a focus on giving you the tools to just create whatever you want, like Fate.

ARRPG for instance puts genuine emphasis on invention, and playing a superscience inventor character who jury-rigs enormous state-of-the-art laser cannons from the spare parts in a computer workshop over the course of a day or two, because comic logic.

(There's lots of mechanical features devoted to inventing new things, and producing mechanically potent items you didn't have previously, either generating it brand new on the spot for whatever reason, or revealing you had it all along, or whenever you have a few hours to spare to build it, or when you can contact someone who already has that thing and you can wait for them to deliver it.)

doppelgreener