Language Overflow

I think I've tried some ants (a special kind of ant) and their eggs when I was young.

Anonymous

People eat the eggs of all sorts of animals.

Anonymous

Did you know people eat "snail caviar"?

Anonymous

I only eat chicken eggs.

I've only heard about escargot. (Is the spelling correct?)

Anonymous

12:01 PM

Chicken caviar.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Yes, it's the French word for 'snail'.

Anonymous

It's an example of a word with a more general meaning in the source language borrowed with a more specific meaning in the target language.

@DamkerngT. #YuckOverflow

Anonymous

Like anime 'cartoons', borrowed from English(?) animation. When anime was borrowed back into English, it took on the more specific meaning 'cartoons made in Japan'.

I think there are only three kinds of eggs that I normally eat: chicken, duck, and turtle.

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M A hash tag!

Anonymous

12:03 PM

I eat very few things overall.

Anonymous

It would be better if I had more variety!

Duck eggs are a little bigger, and it's more delicious. If you can find some, don't miss the chance!

Anonymous

But I dun wanna :-(

Anonymous

I have to push myself a lot to try a new food.

Aww

Anonymous

12:06 PM

I do it now and then :-)

I don't know if they're different, maybe a little.

Anonymous

I like ducks.

I don't like duck meat much.

I like ducks swimming in a pond much better. :D

Anonymous

I have never had duck meat.

@snailboat My little brother prevents our diet's variability. :/

Anonymous

12:07 PM

I like ducks, though. They go quack!

They walk funny, but they swim gracefully.

There are many native foods he doesn't eat. :/

Anonymous

Uh-huh?

Anonymous

Selective eating can be a bad thing.

@snailboat It is a bad thing.

12:08 PM

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M And because he doesn't want to eat it, you don't have it at home as well?

Anonymous

I prefer to mark that proposition with some sort of modality, personally :-)

@DamkerngT. I have a busy mom. She can't cook a meal for each of us.

I see. That makes sense.

Anonymous

I didn't have a situation like that growing up.

Anonymous

I was largely responsible for my own meals. Neither of my parents made them.

Anonymous

12:10 PM

My parents did make us food when I was very young.

Anonymous

I can't remember most of it.

Anonymous

But certainly by your age, I'd been on my own food-wise for years.

My cuisine would be made of two dishes if I were the cook.

@snailboat Boys vs. girls.

Children should not have be allowed to be fussy about foods their parents serve them. Appeasing them is bad for them in the long run.

Anonymous

@tchrist I think you're probably right, though I'll stop short of actually agreeing since I'm not a parent and don't want to tell parents how to do their parenting. :-)

Anonymous

12:13 PM

Though in my case it would probably have been better if my parents had made me eat a much wider variety of food.

Trying to create a meal for an extended family where each child has five things "they don't eat" is simply impossible.

Anonymous

Everyone in my family seems to have some sort of issue with food. Trouble with digesting things or a medical condition that means they need some sort of special diet . . .

Anonymous

Me, though, I can eat whatever I want, as long as it doesn't have large quantities of lactose.

@snailboat I cannot help but think this is a modern conceit.

It did not happen previously.

Anonymous

I can have food with lactose, too―I just take lactase pills.

12:22 PM

I think people just make stuff up, or are too querulous.

Anonymous

So I don't have any real dietary restrictions.

Everyone I know with young children has long lists of no-no foods. It’s impossible.

Anonymous

When I was young, there were foods I wouldn't eat, but that was just because I didn't want to.

#richworldproblems

Anonymous

And my parents gave up on making me.

12:23 PM

But nut allergy is real, right? I mean I only see it in movies and TV series, but I've never run into anyone with such an allergy in real life.

Allergies are real.

The ones that induce anaphylaxis.

Anonymous

Most food, actually. But I gradually made myself eat new foods as I got older, and now I have a wide enough range to cover the nutrition I need :-)

"It gives me a tummy-ache!" may just be being fussy.

"Beans give me a tummy-ache! Broccoli gives me a tummy-ache! I have a tummy-ache unless I get my hamburger right now!"

Oh, that's a specific request!

I know one family where the youngest has to have a plain hamburger whenever they go out to eat anywhere.

So there are many places you cannot go.

I think he's holding them hostage.

12:27 PM

@tchrist "too localized"

"I won't eat pizza if it has mushrooms on it. I will only eat pizza if it has mushrooms on it."

If the OP's Indian, he may also mean 'prepone', the most popular mistake we Indians make! The misunderstanding comes as it has 'pre' in the word. So, opposite is thought as 'post'! :) — Maulik V ♦ 1 hour ago

Then there are the parents who carry around about five meals’ worth of food with them everywhere they go because they know their child will not eat anything else given to them.

How correct is assuming the OP's nationality by a mod?

Anonymous

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M It's not really a "mistake" though unless it's used in a context where, say, AmE or BrE is expected.

12:30 PM

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M If

Q: Get the most out of English conversations

Oh huh, I missed that if.

0

I'm learning English as a second language. To improve my spoken English, I chat with an English native speaker every week for about an hour. Now, I'm looking for ways to increase the efficiency of these chats. What I do so far: I try to prepare each chat. For example, when I know we're going to...

Sigh

OT

Hey, out of context, I would think that's the title of a spam post.

> Please don’t ask any questions about the following topics. They are out of scope for this site:

Proofreading ("are there any mistakes?"), unless the source of concern is clearly specified
"How can I improve my English?" or "What's a good tool for...?" (these are not constructive anyway)
Translation and non-English languages
Criticism, discussion, and analysis of English literature
Requests for resources (we have a Resources List on Meta which you might find useful).

Pretty sure that's #2.

Anonymous

Indian English is almost exclusively spoken by non-native speakers, so sometimes it's difficult to say what's a legitimate characteristic of InE as a language variety and what's simply a common L2 mistake. But prepone is well established enough, used by highly educated speakers in India, that I don't think it can be called a mistake.

Anonymous

12:33 PM

At least in the context of Indian English.

@snailboat nods -- Even Macmillan includes the word.

prepone: verb [transitive] Indian English: to change the date or time of something to an earlier date or time

Macmillan doesn't include weightage, though.

Q: Until 1998, this would have been it

1:29 PM

1

The retail market for a syndicated loan consists of banks and, in the case of leveraged transactions, finance companies and institutional investors. The balance of power among these different investor groups is different in the U.S. than in Europe. The U.S. has a capital market where p...

tense modal-verbs backshifting

I speculate that for most native speakers they wouldn't shift anything. It'd just come out just like that.

> In the U.S., market flex language drives initial pricing levels. Before formally launching a loan to these retail accounts, arrangers will often get a market read by informally polling select investors to gauge their appetite for the credit. After this market read, the arrangers will launch the deal at a spread and fee that it thinks will clear the market.

> Until 1998, this would have been it. Once the pricing, or the initial spread over a base rate which is usually LIBOR, was set, it was set, except in the most extreme cases. If the loans were undersubscribed, the arrangers could very well be left above their desired hold level.

> Since the 1998 Russian financial crisis roiled the market, however, arrangers have adopted market-flex language, which allows them to change the pricing of the loan based on investor demand—in some cases within a predetermined range—and to shift amounts between various tranches of a loan, as a standard feature of loan commitment letters.

It's about the same as, Until 1998, this must have been it.

But the speaker doesn't have any evidence to make such a strong assertion, so it's just would.

Ah, the source is: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syndicated_loan

Hmm... this paraphrase may work: Before 1998, this would be it.

> I find the cited usage [Back then,] this would have been it idiomatically "strange" by comparison with ...that would have been that, but it seems unlikely to me this is a matter of correct/incorrect syntax / grammar. I'd like to see a more detailed analysis of what's going on here.

I think Until bumped up the likelihood of would have been (instead of would be).

I'm fine with this/that/it {would have been/would be/must have been/had been} {it/(like) that/(like) this}. Though I can't really tell which one is more idiomatic than any other one.

Until 1998, this had been it is okay, too, imho; but it's much more assertive.

2:21 PM

2

A: He ... out 5 minutes ago

One of the {unwritten} rules is, if you don't need Perfect Tense, don't use it. Given that you have a very specific moment in time associated with the event, in the overwhelming majority of cases you should use Past Indefinite: He went out five minutes ago. Since the event time is in the p...

Rules! It's rules all over, and then some!

So, they use two different sets of rules.

One of the rules is about the so-called "recent actions" or "recent time", I think.

It's so incomplete.

The present perfect can be used with an event happened way in the past as well:

> It [the ancient Celtic society] endured for over 500 years across much Europe and has left us a legacy that we can experience in art, language and legend.

> Lords of Battle: The World of the Celtic Warrior By Stephen Allen

Even the rule that everyone uses in their answer or comment to that question, don't use the present perfect with "past time expressions", can have some counter-examples:

> The horse's trainer has had a winner here yesterday.

> PEU 457.5

(Though it's sound advice to advise learners not to use it, like, for example, "He has been here yesterday.")

4:22 PM

Master Yoda of Star Wars is known to speak in this manner. — shin 15 hours ago

This is not Yoda speak, I think.

They always say that. Always.

They equate "different from the most common of all possible word orders" to mean YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA

Annoying.

It betrays the poverty of their literary exposure.

nods

Perhaps, the name of the structure is "complement preposing".

CopperKettle

4:39 PM

Word of the day 2: "cucumoviral".

@tchrist Is that you Yoda?

Q: what is the difference between the following usages?

Oh, it's indeed related to cucumber!

Because Yoda speak never crossed my mind, so I looked for more info about the structure itself. I've looked and found it on a page that's not available on Google Books. However, this page has similar information. I believe that this structure is called preposing, or to be more specific: complement preposing. — Damkerng T. 10 secs ago

Oh, this is interesting. I repeated my search, and this time the page showed up!

> A Student's Introduction to English Grammar By Rodney Huddleston, Geoffrey K. Pullum, page 256.

0

"He turned out to be so worked up" and "he turned up to have been so worked up"

grammar british-english

I can assign a meaning to it, but I've never heard He turned up to have been so worked up.

(And what learning method are they using?!)

(I'm guessing that the sentences may come from Facebook or a Twitter feed.)

julia ecklar - the eternal flame

5:45 PM

@DamkerngT. They sound like a poor learner without any [appropriate] assistance.

CopperKettle

6:59 PM

And old song for the evening's enterntainment

►

A: Comma use when a transitional expression follows a conjunction

8:11 PM

0

"Thus" is a funny little word. It's an adverb. It likes to modify verbs, and it really likes to modify entire clauses. When it modifies a verb, it can appear either before or after that verb, possibly with a subtle shift in semantics. "I thus lost your friendship" means something like "I l...

An interesting take on commas.

@DamkerngT. Nice title.

Heh!

8:57 PM

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M, @DamkerngT. Hi, guys.

Hi!

Is it just me, or has today's question intake been even more depressing than usual?

I think you're not alone. I tried to find a good question (to write an answer to), but couldn't find one.

I gave up until I found the comma question I posted above.

I'm still doing my little verification. :P

I think his answer follows the same guidelines University of Sussex (UK) uses.

(It's a rather straightforward and small set of rules for dealing with commas.)

I'm happy for you. Me, I'm going to make a resolution right now never to touch another question involving punctuation.

I think we have so many style guides, perhaps too many, and some styles seem to recommend just exactly the opposite to one another.

For example, Capital Community College Foundation recommends a comma before but: "He hit the ball well, but he ran toward third base."

Garner recommends exactly the opposite.

Ah, wait, I must've misremembered that. I just checked. He recommends the same.

9:09 PM

Whaddya wannit to sound like? That's how to know where to put commas.

I think that will almost always turn out right (when checked against the rules in most style manuals).

Some of the rules. But there's all sorts of nonsense about He said, and , he said where sometimes you want a comma and sometimes you don't; but the guides don't distinguish those.

Oh, right! Exactly!

And "don't start your sentence with a conjunction" is still around.

If people want to know how to point, give them a good book and say "Do it like that".

That's what we do with speech: we don't give them elaborate rules for tongue placement and jaw tension, we point em at a video and say "Say it like that".

The simplest solution is usually the best one.

9:18 PM

I have violated at least six "rules" of punctuation in those two sentences; but will anybody have the temerity, the insolence to call me out on it?

Sorry; I'm very grumpy today. Comes of eight unrelieved hours of stringing cliches togegther for a pointless conference speech. My brain is pure mush now.

I doubt if it's really pointless. :-)

If it has a point I haven't found it yet. The client hasn't told me what it is yet. It's locally exquisite but wholly shapeless.

9:36 PM

A-ha! This advice breaks the simple set of rules I found earlier:

> When a parenthetical element — an interjection, adverbial modifier, or even an adverbial clause — follows a coordinating conjunction used to connect two independent clauses, we do not put a comma in front of the parenthetical element.

It allows this kind of sentence:

> The Red Sox were leading the league at the end of May, but of course, they always do well in the spring. [no comma after "but"]

> The Yankees didn't do so well in the early going, but frankly, everyone expects them to win the season. [no comma after "but"]

It wouldn't pass the simple test of the simple rules. Here is an example given buy University of Sussex:

> Josie originally wanted to be a teacher, but after finishing university, she decided to become a lawyer instead.

According to U Sussex:

> Let's check the first comma. [...] Now the second comma. Can it be replaced? No. Is it followed by a connecting word? No. Does it stand for a repetition? No. Is it one of a pair? Possibly — but can we remove the words set off by the pair of commas?

Then they go to delete the chunk before or after the second comma and see how the sentence turns out (which of course, wouldn't make any sense).

But the Red Sox and Yankees sentences above would fail the test too.

5 mins ago, by Damkerng T.

> When a parenthetical element — an interjection, adverbial modifier, or even an adverbial clause — follows a coordinating conjunction used to connect two independent clauses, we do not put a comma in front of the parenthetical element.

It's interesting that the site claims that that advice is from William Strunk's Elements of Style.

Me, I wouldn't put a comma after the "parenthetical" either. For me, it's either parenthetical and requires brackets or it's a simple adverbial and requires none.

nods -- I think that's probably the safest way to punctuate the above sentences.

> The Red Sox were leading the league at the end of May, but of course they always do well in the spring.

Another way is to add another comma, instead of removing one!

> The Red Sox were leading the league at the end of May, but, of course, they always do well in the spring.

Both or none -- no half measures!

Q: I {haven't seen / didn't see / am not seeing} Kumar this week

11:02 PM

0

I … Kumar this week. options: a) haven’t seen b) didn’t see c) am not seeing. My approach: I choose "haven't seen" because I think the sentence is used to mean that the action is performed during the period and the period isn't over yet. I am unaware though why "didn’t see" is not used....

present-perfect present-continuous

Another exam English got shot down!

@DamkerngT. I am rather proud of my restraint on that answer.