TRPG General Chat

Shalvenay

12:00 AM

(5e doesn't need nearly as much attention to charop as 3.5e, or at least, that's what I have been able to tell)

@SolidusVerum and yes, do you have a char concept in mind, or even knowledge of what the rest of your party is playing?

SolidusVerum

I'm thinking of playing a magical fighter:

Fighter/Warlock
Bladelock
EK

some sort of mix of that.

It could be Fighter/sorc
or fighter/wizard
or fighter/cleric

The group is meeting next Sunday to make a party and for certain reasons I need to make mine early or at least have most of it down.

Shalvenay

@SolidusVerum what fighting style, and it sounds like the arcane/divine split isn't a big deal for you?

Miniman

@SolidusVerum First thoughts: You need 12 levels of Bladelock to get the most important benefit, which means you might not get all that much from more than 1 Fighter level.

@SolidusVerum There are strong benefits to adding a fighter level to sorcerer or wizard, not so much to cleric.

SolidusVerum

probably dueling, mariner, or defense

Shalvenay

@Miniman yeah, divine casters are as a rule gishier than their arcane counterparts

SolidusVerum

12:12 AM

I was thinking of going down the BM or EK path for fighter and doing a small dip into warlock

Miniman

@SolidusVerum The big question for multiclassing is always: What are you looking to get out of your Warlock dip?

SolidusVerum

From what I understand, Fighters don't get much outside of combat and even in combat they're kind of limited in the amount of interesting things that they can do.

Miniman

@SolidusVerum True enough.

SolidusVerum

I figured the warlock would add some utility in and out of combat.

We're starting at Level 7 I believe and I think this will go until 20.

Shalvenay

@SolidusVerum 5e is much kinder about letting stuff happen just by way of RP though, which actually helps the fighter's cause from what I've seen (at Wax's table, our EK has been pretty much the star of the show so far)

Miniman

12:17 AM

@SolidusVerum It can, just make sure you know what you're going in for so that you don't regret slowing your Fighter levels down later.

And always multiclass in multiples of 4 if you can.

Shalvenay

@SolidusVerum also, utility doesn't necessarily mean casting or skill checks -- in the case of the EK at Wax's table, most of it is his connections, both noble and Zhentarim

SolidusVerum

I'm conflicted about dipping because of what the fighter loses out on at levels 16-20.

Shalvenay

@SolidusVerum also, what campaign are you going to be playing?

SolidusVerum

My buddy is making a waterborne adventure.

Miniman

@SolidusVerum That's why it's important to know exactly what you're dipping for, so you can judge the cost/benefit ratio.

SolidusVerum

12:23 AM

@Shalvenay I have a feeling that it will draw a lot from One Piece.

@Miniman my thoughts exactly, I'm just not sure how to rate the usefulness of things that might sound good, but end up being a flop.

Shalvenay

@SolidusVerum aaah! that's going to be very interesting then. I'd almost be inclined to consider a Druid -- shaping could be very powerful in such a campaign, and Circle of the Moon Druids don't need to dip to get a significant melee capability

SolidusVerum

@Shalvenay doesn't most of their melee capability come from shaping though?

Shalvenay

@SolidusVerum it does. I take it that's...problematic from your perspective?

SolidusVerum

@Shalvenay as far as mechanics go the Druids (from what I understand) need to be in animal form to do much damage, and can't really cast spells while in animal form.

Miniman

@SolidusVerum Yep, there's a synergy issue until they get Beast Spells at later levels.

Shalvenay

12:31 AM

@SolidusVerum yeah, the 5e druid doesn't get the ability to cast in shifted form until near-endgame (unlike 3.5e, which practically drops it in their lap right after they get shaping)

SolidusVerum

Yeah I think I'm inclined to stick to a more of a gish concept.

Miniman

@SolidusVerum It might not be what you're looking for, but the Paladin is far and away the best gish by default.

Shalvenay

@SolidusVerum yeah, both the Paladin and the Cleric in 5e are quite capable of gishiness. (my 5e cleric isn't a gish -- but that's a char quirk, not a class limitation)

SolidusVerum

@Miniman correct me if i'm wrong but gish means magical martial character right?

Shalvenay

@SolidusVerum yes -- but divine casters are not exempt from it, AIUI

Miniman

12:35 AM

@SolidusVerum Yep. It's technically more about characters who use specifically arcane magic and fight in melee, but it can be used for any fighter/spellcaster type.

33

Q: What is the etymology of the term 'Gish'?

I understand that it roughly means a fighter/mage, as per this question: How to optimize a Gishy [Fighter/Mage] Character? But I just wanted to know more about how the term came about. It's so hard to keep up with the kids these days, learning the lingo helps. Is it related to Githzerai in DnD...

Shalvenay

@SolidusVerum another intriguing concept to explore (although I have to eat dinner over here) would be a Ranger adapted to an aquatic campaign

SolidusVerum

Given the DM's desire for this campaign my character concept:

Based loosely upon - Malcom Reynolds from Firefly and Monkey D. Luffy from One Piece

I like the idea of being able to fight, take damage and dish it out. However the fighter needs a little love in order to make a decent ships captain IMO.

@Shalvenay I'm not sure what you mean by that, but I too have to eat dinner.

Miniman

@SolidusVerum If you're looking to be a leader-type character, I'd definitely recommend Paladin. Another possibility you might not have considered is Bard.

Bards are full spellcasters, and Valour Bards get a hefty chunk of fighting abilities.

Shalvenay

@SolidusVerum the Ranger is also a divine-gish in 5e (Ranger : Druid :: Paladin : Cleric), but the abilities and perhaps parts of the spell list would need adaptation to function properly in a seaborne campaign

@Miniman and yeah, bards are of course another option

Miniman

Personally, I think there's too much wrong with the Ranger to consider recommending it, but that's just me.

doppelgreener

12:47 AM

Man if I could channel Rick Sanchez from Rick & Morty while talking I'd have so many comments to make here.

But alas.

Sandwich

I love Gish Psions

They're so much fun

You can get all nine of your levels and still get a lot of attack bonuses at the same time to be a very effective combatant in melee or range

Psionic Lion's Charge is one of the best powers lemme tell ya

You can shred some guys

Shalvenay

@Miniman and I, personally, as a rule, don't play Bards -- it is a character archetype I personally am uncomfortable with

Sandwich

Neither do I

I'd rather play a rogue than a bard

Shalvenay

@Sandwich I don't play rogues much either, but I do prefer them over bards

Miniman

@Shalvenay Any particular reason?

Sandwich

12:58 AM

And as far as D&D in particular is concerned, boy what about that Critical Existence Failure

Iron Heart

@Sandwich 12 Int egoist?

Sandwich

nose crinkle A Psion with only 12 int?

Iron Heart

At least in 3.5, you only use Intelligence for power levels you can learn (12 at 1st level meets the minimum for a while) and bonus PP (you have plenty base!), and powers with save DCs (if you use those, which as a self-buffer you won't).

Sandwich

You miss out on a ton of Bonus PP though, and you can't get 9th level powers =\

Iron Heart

Up it to 13 at level 4, so you can learn 3rd-level powers at psion 5, and then rely on headbands of Intelligence for further increases. Put your high abilities into troubleshooting statistics.

Sandwich

1:04 AM

Oh that's weak you could be doing the exact opposite

Iron Heart

Could be, but why?

Sandwich

Most GM's Play it like this:

"Your allotted spells per day (including bonus spells) is all based of your core (un-enhanced) key stat. Enhancement bonuses don't give bonus spells slots, but do increase the DC to overcome the spell."

Temporary ability bonuses don't normally grant bonus spells, or skill points in other words

Pretty sure Owl's Wisdom (the spell) says something similar about bonus spells not being granted when the score comes from a temporary bonus

I think its different in Pathfinder though

There are items that specifically mention that the wearer get retroactive skill points or spell slots after wearing the item a certain amount of time

I think its 24 hours

Iron Heart

The headband simply changes your Intelligence score. The only exceptional bit about that mentioned in its description is skill points.

That said, I do think Pathfinder's approach to preventing shared item benefits is a sensible one.

Sandwich

3:35 AM

Damn it

I got TVTropes'd

Iron Heart

?

Sandwich

Its when you go to TVTropes to look up a trope (In my instance it was Critical Existence failure) and end up spending more than an hour looking through the site when you had other things to do

Althis

4:17 AM

It is a hazard to us all.

Sandwich

I'm up to three hours now sobs

I just cant stop clicking tropes

Miniman

@Sandwich Which broswer do you use?

Sandwich

Firefox

Miniman

Ah, then your problems will be gone soon.

Once you have enough tabs open it'll crash, freeing you from your prison of tropes.

doppelgreener

What if he isn't opening tabs?

Sandwich

4:23 AM

My firefox never crashes

doppelgreener

@Sandwich May I recommend an alt+f4 followed by stepping away to clear your head?

Miniman

@doppelgreener I don't know any other way to browse TVTropes.

Sandwich

I use an incredibly stable non-updated version

The only thing that can stop TVTropes is a need to eat or use the bathroom

DAMN YOU CASTLE OF THE WINDS

YOU DID THIS

doppelgreener

@Sandwich also, alt+f4 and walking away to clear your head.

Sandwich

I cant do that because I'm not finished reading

doppelgreener

4:25 AM

Well, then it's on you, not TVTropes.

Sandwich

No TVTropes is too addicting

I finally managed to close it out on the "Wrench Wench" page

How I got there from Critical Existence failure I'll never know

SPArchaeologist

6:29 AM

Morning

Nyoze

Morning :)

trogdor

MAGICIAN

XD

Magician

Yes, fine, I'm here. Thank you. Yes. All mornings be mine.

doppelgreener

[activates the wizard hat signal]

Aha, he walks in before I've even activated it. As expected from a magician.

Magician

This has turned out to be much harder than expected.

Nyoze

6:42 AM

Well... Following your logic, it was meant to be :P

trogdor

lol

doppelgreener

Well, one cannot say a wizard never makes bad decisions.

He's just not late or early with them.

Pixie

Wizards are bad decisions waiting to happen. At the right time.

4

trogdor

yes, this is why owlbears exist

doppelgreener

I love this comic.

Pixie

6:55 AM

"Wizards: no sense of right and wrong." is a timeless phrase.

Nyoze

That it is.

No sense of right and wrong sounds like an awesome progressive metal song.

Magician

@Pixie He looks like he has a fake nose on a string in the last panel.

doppelgreener

"Wait a minute. These illithids are horribly inefficient and have way too many unnecessary parts for brain devouring. I'll just make a brain devourer to see how much more efficient it can get. Just one. I'm sure nothing will go wrong."

Pixie

@doppelgreener "Why would you even do that?" "[casual shrug] Someone had to do it." "No they didn't."

@Magician ... he does. xD

Miniman

Ooooer.

One of my answers is inching towards a Reversal badge.

trogdor

7:00 AM

@Magician I thought that too

@Pixie apparently because he does,... XD

doppelgreener

I recall reading that in Charles Darwin's day, to be respected, you had to be an expert on something. Most things already had experts, so Darwin chose barnacles. A lot of bad stuff happened along the way, and at the end of it, IIRC he has been quoted saying he never wanted to see another barnacle again.

Alas I the googles do not provide me with such a quote.

Anyway, someone couldn't find anything to be an expert on other than illithids.

And progress must be made.

Pixie

@trogdor No, I meant it looks like he does. I don't think he's supposed to.

Magician

@doppelgreener It's a promising research topic. You could write multiple papers on their reproductive cycle alone.

trogdor

@doppelgreener as in you had to be an expert on something no one else was expert at?

@Pixie oh

Miniman

@doppelgreener I don't need to point out that illithids made intellect devourers, do I?

doppelgreener

7:03 AM

@trogdor Yes.

trogdor

XD

doppelgreener

Or the best expert, at least.

@Miniman Who says? The illithids? Can you trust them? Can you really trust anyone who believes what illithids say?

Pixie

@doppelgreener That, or "I just think they're neat."

Magician

@doppelgreener So a barnacle expert would look at young up-and-coming barnacle enthusiasts and just think "...seriously?"

Miniman

@doppelgreener I bow before your superior paranoia.

doppelgreener

7:04 AM

Maybe they're lying sacks of [bleep] who are kinda embarrassed a non-illithid beat them to it.

@Miniman Paranoia is our greatest weapon against the illithids! Also our worst! But we'll take what we can get!

Magician

@doppelgreener Paranoia is the muddy footprints left in your mind after it's been tampered with.

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