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04:50
@StoneyB Actually, I got those figures a bit off. But you get the idea. Hopefully whoever is at those coordinates will have proper drone protection.
05:35
Note to self: Two good topics to summarize or discuss: conditionals, and verb alterations
 
2 hours later…
07:15
Note to self: This may make a good ELL question: Is "Can you borrow me her tablet?" good/safe for ELLs to use?
Could be subjective.
Could be. But all do's and don't's guidelines are also mostly subjective, and yet very practical and useful.
Oh, and homoglots is a nice word!
07:33
I think you could try pitching the idea first, with examples, and let others add their thoughts, and maybe people will keep referring to your meta post every once in a while.
BTW, let's make cats on-topic here :P
What's he doing?
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M I'm not sure. He seems to like doing that very often lately.
Maybe his nose is itching.
Like (in his mind), oh, he's going to sleep?, let me sleep "on" him!
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Fixing titles is one of my top reasons for editing posts on ELL.
About my cat, I've noticed since earlier this year that he seems to like cuddling and snuggling than before.
How old is he now?
07:39
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M That's actually still better than "Is this sentence correct?"!
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M I'm not sure. I've forgotten his birthday! I think about 6-8.
Maybe he needs a wife or something.
Could be. That crossed my mind too.
But I have no idea how well he and the new cat would get along if I adopted another cat.
You have to expect broken cat boxes and stuff. Typical couple relationship.
07:43
That would be okay. I'm afraid that they might not get along very well.
08:12
This is another kind of language.
Hmm... sometimes a one-box is too big than we'd want.
BTW @Dam @Snail it's interesting how annoying this can be: superuser.com/revisions/968432/1
Interesting that they write English that way.
I think I've seen that one before.
Maybe it was me linking to it. :P
I think so!
6
Q: Swift Gaussian Blur an image

Dan MoldovanIve been developing an app for quite a while now and am soon to finish. I have been blurring some images using the UIImage+ImageEffects.h library, but now I want to switch to gaussian blurring an UIImage Is there any library or something similar that would allow me to gaussian blur an image in m...

has a deleted answer:
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Interesting.
08:39
mine PC have multipe colours too cn u plz halp?
It could be a real problem, but the way they phrase it is--um, not so good?
 
2 hours later…
10:31
o/
\o
@Dam what's the dash used here?
In linguistics, a yes–no question, formally known as a polar question, is a question whose expected answer is either "yes" or "no". Formally, they present an exclusive disjunction, a pair of alternatives of which only one is acceptable. In English, such questions can be formed in both positive and negative forms (e.g. "Will you be here tomorrow?" and "Won't you be here tomorrow?"). Yes–no questions are in contrast with non-polar wh-questions, with the five Ws, which do not necessarily present a range of alternative answers, or necessarily restrict that range to two alternatives. (Questions beginning...
em-dash?
It looks like an en-dash.
Anonymous
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Reading is a highly overlearned skill. Once you're literate, it's largely automatic. But when you encounter writing that doesn't follow the conventions you're used to, you have to slow down. It's no longer as automatic as it usually is. You haven't spent nearly as much time practicing with English that looks like that.
Anonymous
Following written conventions is a favor to your reader.
Anonymous
10:34
Yes, it's an en dash.
Now I'm trying to figure out how to type it.
Anonymous
But.
Anonymous
Shouldn't it be a hyphen?
@snailboat Exactly!
-
Not long enough.
It should be a hyphen?
(I'm no punctuation master)
10:36
I think it's probably em-dashes in the body text.
Anonymous
I'm not either. But they wrote "non-polar" and "wh-questions" but "yes–no question".
Anonymous
Why?
Anonymous
@DamkerngT. That would be a fun question!
Hehe! I may ask that after the second installment. :P
Anonymous
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Honestly, most answers on the language sites are somewhat subjective.
10:40
Right.
Anonymous
I don't think this one would be more than most.
I just checked. It looks like they use the en-dash consistently on that Wikipedia Yes-No page.
Anonymous
> the Alpher–Bethe–Gamow theory
Anonymous
> the Alpher-Bethe-Gamow theory
Anonymous
10:43
Wikipedia likes the former.
Oh? Then the chemistry articles need a lot of editing.
Anonymous
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M You don't have to use an en dash.
Anonymous
Writing "yes-no question" is fine.
Anonymous
If you want to include them in questions or answers, type – or —
Anonymous
10:59
I use Japanese input to type the '―' symbol, which is actually not an em dash, but it looks the same to me, and sometimes I use it as one.
Anonymous
If I type dassyu I get '―'.
Anonymous
And if I type '―', it looks like a little face.
Is that a swear word? (Dass you fool!)
Anonymous
It's how the English word dash is loaned into Japanese.
Anonymous
ダッシュ
11:19
I wonder why it's not dashu.
I guess it must have a pattern for it.
Anonymous
11:32
@DamkerngT. That would be a good question for Japanese.SE!
@snailboat It's curious that sh --> syu, right?!
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Sounds good!
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M In your Title post?
Anonymous
I can explain that but I'd like to do it where I can type IPA. Right now I'm chatting from my phone.
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Hmm... I don't know. Perhaps simpler words or phrases may work better.
Sanity check: Nokia's tune used to be a generic ring thing where you live too, right?
Which one? I can remember N95's one.
Anonymous
11:37
I can type Japanese, though. Similar examples to ダッシュ include アッシュ, キャッシュ, サッシュ, ハッシュ, バッシュ, マッシュ, ラッシュ, …
That's the one I'm familiar with.
Anonymous
I miss my old Nokia tablet. It was fun.
I can't recall a Nokia tablet now!
Anonymous
I had an n800.
@snailboat Hey, that's cool! I think it was used in Die Hard 4!
Anonymous
11:40
Japanese syu しゅ is Japanese shu しゅ
@snailboat Interesting! All these -ash words!
Anonymous
Two different ways of spelling the same thing
Ah, perhaps that was what confused me!
Anonymous
In both cases you have /šu/
So, ダッシュ sounds somewhat like "dash (with the "ah" sound) shu", I think.
Anonymous
11:42
Japanese /š/ is [ɕ]
Anonymous
Look, I figured out how to type it on my phone :-)
Yay! You contrived (in a clever way)! ;-)
Anonymous
Yes, Japanese has no [æ], so it ends up in the closest phonemic bucket /a/
Anonymous
The final /u/ is added to satisfy the coda constraint
Anonymous
But why do you suppose the /š/ geminates?
Anonymous
11:46
Autocorrect thinks it germinates, by the way.
@snailboat I'm not sure. Perhaps it sounds closer to English?
Anonymous
/ša ši šu še šo/ [ɕa ɕi ɕɯ ɕe ɕo] シャ・シ・シュ・シェ・ショ
Anonymous
/ča či ču če čo/ [cɕa cɕi cɕɯ cɕe cɕo] チャ・チ・チュ・チェ・チョ
Hmm... are they really the same /ɕ/? I just think that シャ sounds like [sa].
Anonymous
Many people find it easier to think of these as "sh" and "ch" and are unfamiliar with the /š/ and /č/ symbols
Anonymous
11:51
サ /sa/ and シャ /ša/ are different
The Nokia tune (also called Grande Valse) is a phrase from a composition for solo guitar, Gran Vals, by the Spanish classical guitarist and composer Francisco Tárrega, written in 1902. It has been the icon of Finnish corporation Nokia since the 1990s, becoming the first identifiable musical ringtone on a mobile phone, and has become a cult classic. == HistoryEdit == The Nokia Tune was first heard briefly for 3 seconds in a Nokia 1011 commercial in 1992. In 1993 Anssi Vanjoki, then Executive Vice President of Nokia, brought the whole Gran Vals to Lauri Kivinen (then Head of Corporate Communications...
Oh!
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Yes, that was a thing.
Until iPhone came along.
Anonymous
For example, 社員 /šaiɴ/ 'company employee' and サイン /saiɴ/ are a minimal pair.
Anonymous
If you pronounce one like the other, people will get confused.
Anonymous
11:59
The IPA keyboard I'm using on my phone doesn't work very well. :-(
Anonymous
It took me a long time to type the IPA for 社員.
Oh dang. Now I have to imagine an ordinary ELL question.
Anonymous
Don't imagine. Just look at a bunch of them :-)
12:46
@snailboat Because that’s just how you do it. Let me have some coffee and I'll try better. ALT+- is en dash and SHIFT+ALT+- is em dash.
13:11
@snailboat I imagined one, and it's an easy question about dislocation.
> > test
> > test
> test
Aww, nested blockquotes aren't supported. :[
looks for facepalm emojicon
Hey wait, is this a gallery?
Was I not supposed to be typing here? If so, sorry!
You're supposed to be typing here.
14:12
@tchrist Please keep typing here. :-)
@Dam I made up a made-up ELL question.
I'm not sure about the answer.
What was the question?
> Today I saw this sentence in [this article](http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34162336):
> > Although pictures of the 20 August brawl have long been circulated on social media, West Point did not confirm it took place until recently, **the paper reports**.

> I know that I can revise this sentence to this one:
> > **The paper reports that** although pictures of the 20 August brawl have long been circulated on social media, West Point did not confirm it took place until recently.

> Is there any difference in meaning between those sentences? I'm guessing there's an emphasis differenc
It's not a real question, right?
Not a real one, but it could become one.
(If LO likes it)
14:18
I don't have a real answer, actually.
Could there be a real answer?
I think it can, but I'm not sure how the answers will look like or how good they will be.
So that means we should add a self-answer.
Definitely.
If you know the answer.
Now, in "the paper reports that X" X is a subordinate clause, right?
14:21
I think it's actually the main clause.
Wait, whoops, I meant the vice versa.
Yes, X is the subordinate clause.
First, how would the reported speech be?
> The paper reports that although pictures of the 20 August brawl have long been circulated on social media, West Point did not confirm it took place until recently.
Is it grammatically correct or do I need to rebalance the tenses?
Are those the only two choices? :)
14:24
The verb is reports, in the present simple, so no need to shift anything.
It sounds ok to me.
That's what I thought. ᕙ(⇀‸↼‶)ᕗ
So, is there any difference in meaning @TCh?
Between?
9 mins ago, by inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M
> Today I saw this sentence in [this article](http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34162336):
> > Although pictures of the 20 August brawl have long been circulated on social media, West Point did not confirm it took place until recently, **the paper reports**.

> I know that I can revise this sentence to this one:
> > **The paper reports that** although pictures of the 20 August brawl have long been circulated on social media, West Point did not confirm it took place until recently.

> Is there any difference in meaning between those sentences? I'm guessing there's an emphasis differenc
It's just dislocated.
14:25
So that's a no?
I thought you were getting nervous about tense.
Nah, I was making sure I got the tenses right and didn't need backshifting or whatever.
Backshifting is overrated.
Now the main question is whether dislocation of the main clause changes the meaning.
Can't see how.
14:27
Hmm. Sad It could've been a good question.
Something I just heard on TV. Tell me what you have. It could've been said, What you have, tell me, I think.
Mother taught me that the moon is made of green cheese.
BTW @TCh it's just an example question in my tutorial FAQ. It's not a real real question.
@Dam ?
REAL*8?
Sorry, ancient language joke.
> What you have, tell me.
Weird.
@tchrist What is it about?
14:30
He doubled his real for emphasis. Fortran declarations of floating-point numbers are REAL*4 for single-precision, REAL*8 for double precision, and um I think now REAL*12 or REAL*16 for whatever long doubles are called.
Oh, that language, not this language.
Dissecting a joke is a lot like vivisecting a frog: long and messy and tedious, and by the time it’s done, the frog is dead.
3
@TCh that has been a habit since @Snail told us it's called "contrastive focus reduplication" and it's fine in English.
Poor frogs!
She's right.
14:32
So after that, whenever we talk talk, we do it like this this.
That's one which doesn't work. I don't know why.
This this doesn't.
Right.
That's something else.
But "talk talk" does. But it's supposed to mean "serious talk" or something else.
This this is different from that this.
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Yes, certainly. Don't do it with function words.
14:34
Point taken.
Closed sets may be off limits.
Good luck finding a paper on this.
Uh, I think I can't. Unless Chinese sites help.
14:48
Hmm, now there is a problem.
\o @Arau!
@Dam you here?
Hi @inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M
Oh! So "more" and "most common" are more common than "commoner" and "commonest".
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M I think so (more common is now more common than commoner).
Hi, @Araucaria!
@DamkerngT. Hi!
@StoneyB I'm researching complementation patterns for verbs of perception and my brains caving in ... You got any knowledge in that area?
15:03
@Araucaria I know what everybody else does, which is what works! But have I sat down and arranged that knowledge into tidy categories? No.
I'm working on the participle/gerund/deverbal -ing thing you proposed, which right now looks like taking most of the rest of my life.
@StoneyB How does we saw him standing in the corner compared to we saw his standing in the corner strike you? What do you think the structural difference is there?
@StoneyB Yes. I've had a dive into H&P, but they don't really give it enough depth it seems to me ...
@StoneyB I think H&P would regard "I saw him leaving the bank" a complex catenative construction, where him and leaving the bank were two separate complements of the verb. But in "I saw him standing in the corner" I think they'd regard standing in the corener as a depictive adjunct. But it's hard to say why exactly they should be different.
@snailboat Any thoughts (when you return)?
OK everyone. Whats you thoughts on these?
a: I saw him eat the sandwich.
b. I saw him eating the sandwich.
c: I saw his eating the sandwich.
It seems to me that (c) is odd. Also Intuitively, I don't think (c) can involve a DO and a Catenative Complement. It seems to me that (c) would just involve a single complement, the clause his eating the sandwich. My evidence for this would be that we can passivise that last sentence. We can't with the others. So that would seem to make his eating the sandwich a constituent in (c). What d'you all think?
15:27
I think (a) and (b) sound okay, but (b) is probably more usual (because it's a more probable context). (c) sounds quite bad, and I can't tell exactly why.
@Araucaria We saw his standing ... only works for me with a different sense of see: We saw his standing in the corner as a deliberate choice, not a punishment.
(But I'd be fine with We saw his standing in the polls...)
I'm right now working through the chapter cited by CoolHandLouis, which is very interesting and to the point -- ebooks.unibuc.ro/filologie/cornilescu/14.pdf
Anyone think I avoid my running into him sounds better than I avoid my meeting him?
And I've also been browsing this paper, which is focused on OE but is making me rethink postposed participials.
I saw him eat the sandwich and I saw him eating the sandwich I am coming to think of as clausal complements, not OBJ+PC(o) - they differ aspectually.
@DamkerngT. I don't like either one: I want the subject deleted in both.
15:42
Me either! -- I was trying to add extra bits to the sentences.
I saw his eating the sandwich, again, doesn't work for me; if you want that badly to nounify eating you have to go whole hog and say I saw his eating of the sandwich.
Your passivization thingy is interesting. I saw the sandwich being eaten by him is fine BUT I saw the sandwich be eaten by him is iffy. I'd say I saw the sandwich eaten by him; out of context, to be sure, that's ambiguous, but that doesn't matter because utterances don't occur out of context.
16:24
I'd advise against using very a <adj.>. How about Extraordinarily Motivated? (Sorry, just kidding.) I think you could say I'm highly/strongly motivated (, enthusiastic, and committed to delivering quality work, etc). — Damkerng T. 54 secs ago
I was about to say that "very a <adj.>" is ungrammatical.
Then I found some of them in Google Books!
> It's very a big difference. Like Lyon is probably, I think, the seven city in France but it's ten times less people than in Paris, for example.
That's when one should go all crazy and stuff.
HUH?!
You sure it's not a typo or something?!
@Snail @Stoney whaddya think o' that? up there?
Oh, it was an interview with Luc, an engineer from French-speaking Switzerland.
Let's see how credible the rest are...
> “Now we have very a big decision to make here, said Felix.
Ah come on!
> There are no limits for the form a good title can take. Thus, tips for writing a good title for an essay, question on SE etc. are usually not really useful and objective, but general and vague. "Be creative", while a correct and general piece of advice, isn't really useful as its usually followed by a "how?" response from the reader.

Hence, I need to take a different approach.
Now I'm stuck with the rest of the second paragraph. :D
16:31
@StoneyB I was thinking more like:
a: *Him eat the sandwich was sen by me
b: *Him eating the sandwich was seen by me.
c: His eating the sandwich was seen by me.
d: ?He eating the sandwich was seen by me.
:P
D is definitely not working.
Aha.
That last one is inelegant, but seems ok at a stretch. The others definitely seem weird.
@DamkerngT. We can rarely use He as the subject of a non-finite verb in English (though it is possible)
Good tip! I'll keep that in mind.
I wanted to take a tag-based approach just to realize the sad fact that people aren't even tagging well on ELL.
16:36
@DamkerngT. ...which is why your interesting example sounds wonky!
As a chocolate lover, being a little wonky or wonka would be okay. :D
@Araucaria Hmm ... I'm not sure that the nominalization there isn't coerced by position, just as a sentence-initial content clause requires that and a sentence-initial unEqui-ed infinitival requires for.
I was thinking to promote 'bittorn' as the Word of the Day but I've changed my mind.
@DamkerngT. What a nifty word that was!
Indeed. Though I'm not sure about its popularity.
16:53
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Useful tagging can only be accomplished by somebody who knows what the issue is, which on ELL almost by definition excludes the asker.
Not to mention there's no nesting in tags.
is too broad, while isn't.
I think is almost like the default tag for ELL.
I gave up on tags about three weeks into Beta.
I have to run to the grocery store now, or my family will become crabby due to decaffeination. 'bye all.
Good night! (my local time)
17:29
Hi all
Hullo! I've been meaning to talk to you.
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Apparently.
Hi, @Ahmad!
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M how?
I come again with a sentence
then I'd better go for that
17:32
@Ahmad please don't just include "X vs. Y" in your titles. Instead, make titles show what you want to compare between the two terms.
I wrote "In the algorithm, when a pattern is matched, if it is specified for the data extraction, the content of the matching region is extracted and added to an XML structure under a node corresponding its parent pattern."
> "Haha" vs. "Hehe"
is a bad title, while
> "haha" vs. "hehe": which has more positive connotation?
few times I did
is a better one. m'kay?
did I?
In that sentence I say something part by part, is it a natural way of sentence construction?
17:34
@Ahmad Use "and" more.
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M I got you, to be more specific, OK I will consider that
Thanks.
We've started a campaign to clean up the messy titles off ELL.
It reminds me of something snailboat said earlier today.
7 hours ago, by snailboat
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Reading is a highly overlearned skill. Once you're literate, it's largely automatic. But when you encounter writing that doesn't follow the conventions you're used to, you have to slow down. It's no longer as automatic as it usually is. You haven't spent nearly as much time practicing with English that looks like that.
7 hours ago, by snailboat
Following written conventions is a favor to your reader.
What part of it?
3 mins ago, by Ahmad
I wrote "In the algorithm, when a pattern is matched, if it is specified for the data extraction, the content of the matching region is extracted and added to an XML structure under a node corresponding its parent pattern."
I found myself reading that rather slowly.
17:35
@StoneyB I'm not sure it isn't either (though I'm not sure it is). But suppose "him eating the sandwiches" in "him eating the sandwich annoyed me" is a non-finite clause,
> when a pattern is matched in the algorithm,
...but in "I saw him eating the sandwich", "eating the sandwich" is a postmodifying participle clause modifying me - or if we do really have a DO and a CC, then this CC is like a PC modifying the DO -i.e. it has the same semantic effect as if it was me being postmodified by a participle clause.
@DamkerngT. I found myself reading it fast, while releasing the handbrake and making a screeching sound at each comma.
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Well, what is it?
@DamkerngT. The sentence @Ahmad wrote.
17:37
No, I meant if it is specified for the data extraction.
@DamkerngT. the pattern
Then you could make one nice clause outta the whole that.
when a pattern is matched, if it [the pattern] is specefied .... isn't obvious?
And what if it is not specified?
> In the algorithm, when a pattern is matched, if it is specified for the data extraction, the content of the matching region is extracted and added to an XML structure under a node corresponding its parent pattern.
to
17:39
we don't extract data from it
if it was specefied for data extraction
@Ahmad See, as a reader I have to figure that out myself.
Actullay I also have problem with tense in such sentences
@StoneyB But the main thing I suppose is that we are agreed firstly that "I saw his eating sandwiches" is wonky, and that this is so because "SEE" is a perception verb. Ant then secondly, that this is not the normal case of having a "gerundy" kind of gerund-participle clause where we can choose between a genitive or accusative subject.
> When a pattern specified for the data extraction is matched in the algorithm, the content of the matching region is extracted and added to an XML structure under a node corresponding its parent pattern.
@Ahmad ^
(Note that you have to remove the definite article)
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Yeah, right
17:42
@StoneyB And if that's the case then I suppose you'd reckon that this was also the case with that question we were looking at yesterday?
@StoneyB Which is, aherm, now open for answers :)
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M thank you, then I always should avoid my original sentence and find an equivalant to relate them?
@Ahmad No, but you should avoid excessive commas. It makes the reading "bumpy" for the reader.
@Ahmad I'd say that it's not about English, it's about writing.
by the way, what about moderator's election, does it finish?
It'll finish in 3 days. Have you voted?
17:48
Sure ; )
I didn't see @DamkerngT. in the nominators
I did not.
@Ahmad I wasn't resilient enough in coaxing him into doing it.
Are you currently a moderator @DamkerngT.?
No, I'm not. I'm fine with being a normal user.
17:49
He's a mod back at his home. Does that count?
but you are active here, are you going to be less active?!
Nope, of course not.
He's our @Dam and shall remain our @Dam.
Great, community needs you in any format (way)
It needs all of us!
17:52
@Ahmad .rob, .robo, .robot, .rbt etc.
Ok! Thank you again for help.
Welcome! NOW, @Dam, back to querifying, if you're available.
I hope you be succesful and Good luck for @inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M in comming elections
Bye 4 now
17:53
Good luck with your paper! @Ahmad
: - )
Whatever the result may be, I'll continue polishing ELL.
Great!

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