I saw this last year, i am surprised that CS theory has a place to discuss it! any P claim is equivalent to a crank claim at the moment in CS community

@Jim Probably just good timing. Probably because of the discussions between you and vzn, we have "GI cleanup and summarize" time at the moment. My guess is that because "Dick Lipton called for action near the end of 2011", there is now quite some progress to digest, so the context is fresh in our minds, we have nauty installed and running, can convert easily between different graph input representations on our computers, and don't mind looking for counterexamples...

@ThomasKlimpel "we" ? I am not aware about the "We" , VZN has been kind to me, occasionally you also, what is the relationship between the 'discussion' and "GI cleanup and summarize"? also the phrase "GI cleanup and summarize" is not clear to me.

@Jim Don't worry about the exact meaning of "we" or "GI cleanup and summarize". Just take what I say with a pinch of salt.

@vzn At least it is a nice opportunity to get more familiar with nauty, benchmark different algorithms for different graphs, get a bag of counterexamples, see how that algorithm performs on the known examples where nauty takes exponential time, ...

@Jim author's "we"

@ThomasKlimpel so are you saying you installed nauty? have you tried running it yet? for generating/ converting instances, do you have a language in mind?

not exactly sure what you mean by ref to RJLs call to action.

@Jim it is a rare case that "slipped by the radar" possibly due to the way it was phrased. usually the high rep users really pounce on this kind of stuff. (yrs ago?) once asked about a collatz paper/ claim by chinese scientists, iirc it was probably deleted within a few hrs.

Sup yall?

@StanShunpike whats new dude. did you decide to get into CS further? :)

I did.

ah! what is your decision?

I am going to take the honors intro course in the fall

nice. so, dabble in CS, or a CS minor? isnt your major (iirc) econ?

Yup, but I hope to double major. Minor is my back up plan

I have been studying applications of context-free grammars to music

@StanShunpike awesome! great choice! :D

@StanShunpike ah, have looked into computer generated music somewhat myself.

like the tie-ins with AI/ "machine aesthetics"...

Yes, I am looking at the neural correlates

The brain regions involved are neighboring

So good reason to think similarities in processing

yes, probably some relatively new research into brain imaging of "the brain on music" so to speak.

Wow, nice answer! I will have to check those out! :D

sounds like great prj.

Yes indeed

Here is the paper I read last night that altered my thinking

web.mit.edu/jikatz/Public/MusLangGroup/Reductions/…

I found this from a book I am reading called Brain and Music, one of the leading serious neurobooks on musicsl neuroscience

impressive paper!

there is also a lot of ML analysis of music going on (eg for classification). have a few links on that lying around. the massive industry shift from pay-per-song to streaming models is strengthening all that.

so is this a class prj?

Nah

@vzn I am a composer and, like you, like to write

So this is just research for some stuff I am writing

What is ML?

machine-learning

hmmm, looks vaguely familiar, think maybe listened to some of your piano song(s) awhile (few mos) back.

maybe will try listening some again tonite.

did you say what school youre going to? (iirc) was it chicago?

dabbled some with Reason and Ableton yrs ago. saw a fun demo of the latter recently, hooked up to "MaKey MaKey"

Yup, Uchicago :D

My best latest song is m.soundcloud.com/gotlepton/linseguimento if you like classical and m.soundcloud.com/gotlepton/bubbles if you like happy modern stuff

But the stuff I am writing is words not just music.

I have bewn writing about music theory

do you use simulated instruments for the music? what software are you using?

Lolol

I actually use an app called MusicStudio

And the funny part is it cost $14

Whereas the expensive programs can be $200 or $800

nice, does it simulate instruments or are they sampled? yes the software has really evolved a lot last few yrs (21st century). actually, nearly "revolutionary" :)

I am not sure. They went and recorded instruments and so thats where the timbres came from. Some dude started an open source initiative to have high quality orchestral synthesizers with actual recorded instruments free

The guy who makes the software then used this in his app

Actually, iirc some random guy in one of the app's forums actually did it for him and he was just like "cool, I'll take it!"

xewton.com/musicstudio/overview

This is the app

I use it mainly because the sound quality is best

coincidentally just googled it as you pasted that. nice, ipad app. yeah was just musing also that ipad/ iphone has shifted music stuff around a lot. dreamed of writing my own app since a teenager.

What kind of app would you write?

have an idea (since teenager) for acapella instruments (eg jazz "scat") turned into real-sounding ones via on-the-fly wave changing. somewhat reminiscent of autotuning, but different.

did work on it briefly once. captured/ analyzed sound files with code.

maybe used by performers somewhat like these guys. saw em about a yr ago live concert, it was great, big crowd, real crowdpleasers. Face

@StanShunpike really nice app! looking thru it. pdf manual online. it doesnt seem to say much about all the sampling sources online or manual. but it does mention adding 35 new instruments v2.0

@vzn they are really good singers. And i like their harmonies a lot.

@vzn The only drawback of the app is that you cannot enter the notes in as sheet music

Which you can in Finale or Sibelius

@StanShunpike yeah they seem to be catching on, intl touring etc.!

@StanShunpike probably could do that with some other app & import presumably.

I will get some of their stuff and play around with it :D

But Finale's (1) more expensive and (2) 5x worse sound quality

I actually own it but I only use it for sheet music because the sound quality is so much poorer

yeah one can pay any amount of $$$ on music gear (hardware/ software). many spend lots on plugins too. that seems to be a great model. huge universe of plugins eg in Reason.

do you go to concerts? which ones?

Rarely. Its not something my family is into. I have only ever been to classical concerts. My brother is an outlier and has been to a bunch, but he stopped recently. Classical isnt even my favorite genre tho. I think rock is. Hbu?

I saw Debussy at Chicago Symphony Orchestra in May

@StanShunpike yes have been to a lot of concerts over the years. mainly rock/ pop type stuff. theres a lot of free music in the summer in the area too. flamenco is one of my personal faves (started into it almost ~2 decades ago). enjoy how it has evolved to become more popular/ mainstream.

@vzn that dancing is awesome! Do the women always wear red dresses for flamenco? All the ones I googled had them in red ones

@StanShunpike afaik the dresses can be any color although red is a favorite. flamenco & its overall style (it is often performed between men/ women) is a cultural icon/ tradition for spain. centuries old. maybe originating with gypsies, not sure. personally really enjoy the master/ virtuoso guitarists who must take many years to train/ master it. its virtually an athletic performance.

Yes, they look extremely fit. I noticed the guitars immediately. I assume based on your comment then that they are a consistent feature of flemenco music.

@StanShunpike lol its the main instrument. the playing style is very advanced, using all the fingers, and the rhythms are very complex/ difficult, something like 6/7 sometimes etc.

@vzn argh. Must go. Work to do. Great talking. :D

lately there is a lot of "pop" flamenco, some approaching (the dreaded) "muzak"... its been around for decades now... l8r man nice chatting :) ... hope to hear more of your music analysis prj sometime...

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