The Bikeshed - 2015-07-25

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3:51 AM

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Q: Why Am I Banned From Editing?

I was going to fix a typo I came across in an answer and saw that I am temporarily banned form making edits. I'd like to know why, and how come I was not notified that action(s) were taken against me. I find that to be pretty odd. After 5+ years in the Stack Exchange community, I have yet to come...

3 hours later…

6:47 AM

Are open conent and free content on-topic?

2 hours later…

8:51 AM

@Pandya annoyingly, the best I can say is "they probably are" -> meta.opensource.stackexchange.com/questions/212/…

I think roughly everyone wants them to be on topic, but I still expect some close votes for off topic, which I don't think will go through

however, my crystal ball is still on the beach

1 hour later…

10:07 AM

FSF invites the free software community to its 30th birthday party on October 3rd, 2015

2 hours later…

11:47 AM

@Pandya In general yes, but not necessarily all questions, just as not every question about free/open software is on-topic

12:02 PM

@Pandya Quite honestly, let it come. If there's something to do with OSI, FSF or CC, then let it be in the scope.

12:28 PM

There is featured question. But no idea when moderator will be elected (or provisional selected). Has anyone idea about it?

Well, I'll tell you this - Elementary OS which has been in beta shorter than us already has mods...

You can add a comment to ask when we get them I suppose, but they'll take their time and make their choice when they feel its the time

These things take variable time

Any idea about when community mod election will start?

Exactly, mod elections will start when the site graduates

which will probably be a really long time

maybe they're giving it a bit more time on OS.SE because it's a more controversial site and they want more time to observe potential mods

Or maybe they've already contacted some people and one of them is taking time to reply

12:35 PM

I wouldn't be surprised

That can delay things

@Pandya in a few years, probably

Oh yes, mods have to sign a mod agreement, right?

@Zizouz212 the concept of graduation is dissolving, now a site can have elections without having a design or without having privileges raised etc

@Zizouz212 that happens after the official announcement

That's true

Also I am curious about on-topic of this site. Who can do it? and when will be? @Gilles any idea?

12:37 PM

@Pandya can be edited by moderators

Yep

I'm pretty sure they'll get that done quickly too :)

@Pandya I narrowed the Java licensing question a little to just libraries, which might make it less broad, not having to lug along the rest of the JDK (some JVM with various licensing possibilities, javac or other compilers, and the rest of the bintools)

could you see if you think this is better?

@Gilles but we have no mods so I think it can only be done by community manager/employee type moderators. Or only after mod elected for this site?

@Pandya mods will do it when we have mods

SE employees can do it of course, but they leave it to community mods

We'll get mods in less than a couple weeks, that's for sure. They'll be able to do it then

12:42 PM

@Martijn by the way, I've not voted to close as too board. (I see one vote for close but it is not from me)

@Martijn It looks fine: I haven't voted to close, but it doesn't look broad at all too me.

the voter had a point though, it was getting rather broad, and an answer to the less broad question is probably better than one to the broader question

@Zizouz212 thanks for reply.

@Zizouz212 there is painfully much licensing history for "Java" (which is an almost impossibly broad term in itself)

Thanks for a double ping :P

@Martijn Maybe separate questions for Sun java and Oracle java?

12:45 PM

@Zizouz212 edited/corrected :D

how do it 's for sure?

edited?

there is javac and the various other binutils, there are a plethoria of JVMs (Sun/Oracle HotSpot, JRockit, IBM J, JamVM, ZeroVM), there are the competing web runtimes IcedTea and the "normal" one (plus the JavaFX family of things)

leaving all that out makes for a far clearer scope

That's true

This is trickier than it looks...

there still is the Sun/Oracle transition with its license changes, not everything being in OpenJDK, the question on what is "official" and what is not (think your own JAI)

and a really good answer could touch on Apache Commons and Google Guave which are used by many as if they were auxiliary standard libraries, each with their own licensing

My issue with Java right now is they don't make anything clear with anything...

I swear, now I need to figure out how to write my own tiff plugin...

12:51 PM

as far as standard standard libraries go, they are all GPL2 + classpath exception

which means they are effectively fully permissive

Well, that's a good thing: It seems you can't even distribute the standard libraries - they must have java installed on the computer

or LGPL style more or less

you can distribute the standard libraries, no problem

it's all OpenJDK

and it's commonly done as well, except for official packages for Debian and derivates

Stupid java...

Anyways, any thoughts on this question? opensource.stackexchange.com/questions/1340/…

SE is down for me :o

back up, picknick over

SE is down?

12:55 PM

it's back up for me

I'm wondering about posting a similar version on Meta SE

Maybe I'll slap a big bounty on it if it gets a lot of attention/votes/views, and hopefully I'll actually get an answer from someone at SE :)

By the way, I don't really know how the community wiki answers work, because I haven't read the terms and conditions, but the likely scenario is that each rivision is owned by its respective author (i.e. no transfer of copyright to SE or anything) and the combined work is collectively owned and licensed CC-BY-SA just as anything else

but I'm not 100% sure on the no transfer of copyright. Maybe there is some CLA-like thing in effect for community wiki stuff

I can tell you for sure that the former is how Wikipedia works

Interesting... Can you add that as a comment maybe?

not sure if it fits :D

@Martijn you mean the community wiki feature of Stack Exchange? No impact on copyright

Technical impact: it lowers the reputation threshold for unreviewed edits, and doesn't earn the original poster reputation

12:59 PM

@Gilles so just a combined work with each edit owned by its author under CC-BY-SA?

Moral impact: it's a sign to others that the original author doesn't mind and even encourages significant edits

@Gilles opensource.stackexchange.com/questions/1340/… is waiting for your answer :D

@Martijn each author who made a significant contribution

well, they can hardly own anything that is doesn't meet the threshold of originality under US law

Wow, this will be fun :)

1:01 PM

I am thinking to start chat-room for discussion on on-topic and scope. Is this good idea? (Though I've not specifically many questions/discussions for it; but If it will be helpful to all and our community)

Keep it here

@Pandya I personally very much oppose fracturing chat rooms until we have to because there is too much traffic on the main chatroom to get anything done

and from my perspective, that point will likely be never, or very far in the future when a spit social/business can be made

Exactly, and then it keeps all the discussions in one place

I mean discussion which specifically focus on on-topic & scope only.

For the bikeshed :)

Isn't much else that we talk about here

1:04 PM

@Pandya why do you think it would be better if they were not discussed here? (not a hypothetical question, but an honest one)

@Zizouz212 Ok. I understood (cancelled to start another). @Martijn

Alright :)

@TrevorClarke Are you around?

@Zizouz212 yes

I could be right in assuming that you downvoted my license recommendation question?

um

sorry which one

this one

0

Q: License for Graphics Design Program

I've written a Graphics Design program, with less functionality than Photoshop, but more than MS Paint. I've targeted the application towards teenagers and kids, mainly for educational usages for subject fields such as Graphic Design, Photography and Digital Art. I've started writing it for my fi...

software license-recommendation dual-licensing educational-resources

1:15 PM

0

Q: License for Graphics Design Program

I've written a Graphics Design program, with less functionality than Photoshop, but more than MS Paint. I've targeted the application towards teenagers and kids, mainly for educational usages for subject fields such as Graphic Design, Photography and Digital Art. I've started writing it for my fi...

software license-recommendation dual-licensing educational-resources

lol

Yep, that's the one

You shouldnt assume

but yes it was me

I kind of figured :) Anything to improve?

I dont like that kind of questions like

"Which license would be best suited for my purposes?

"

idk

search google

thats how i feel

at least

Wats?

Search google? How will google help me on that?

well i feel like you could find this answer by searching google

and plus its opinion based

is it not?

1:18 PM

It's a license recommendation question... Of course it will be opinion based

ok

I dont like questions like that... but i guess

Regardless, google won't apply to specific situations, but thats my view

yup

anyway i cant undownvote

What's wrong with those sorts of questions?

unless you edit

1:19 PM

Sure, I'll edit it

there

hey you want to email me that program

il try it out

I'm still alpha testing it... So there's still I ridiculous amount of bugs

Here, let me do this

thats ok

"if it's not on github/bitbucket/gitorious it doesn't exist" :P

host it, for proverbial shits and giggles and git experience

:D

0

A: Licensing Community Wiki Posts at SE

You're conflating features of the Stack Exchange engine, which copyright law doesn't care about, with ownership and licensing. All user content (i.e. the posts and comments, not the user interface bits) on Stack Exchange is owned by their authors (there is no transfer of copyright — that's not e...

1:23 PM

@Gilles That looks like an amazing answer :)

Open Source Java Paint Program: drive.google.com/file/d/0B86dtgLaLoHcUnJBQk56NUcwakE/…

@Zizouz212 Your question is partly based on a false permise

You misread Martijn's answer

That's the version I did for school, but I'll let you guys know when I release the real, amazing one

The original author may make their work available under a dual license

The content that's on Stack Exchange isn't dual-licensed

Ok, I understood it that a user can add a license to anything they contribute to the site, not that SE is dual licensed, but anything that a user contributes to will be licensed with both the SE license (CC-BY-SA) and the license that the user states

hey ziz

1:26 PM

@Zizouz212 open source how? I don't see a license file in the jar, nor do I see any other copyright information, nor do I see any source jars, or any other place where I can download the source :P

if it's open source, you're violating your license :P

lol, that's just the program

@ziz when u click on the navbar.... it puts dots lower down

@Zizouz212 I know, and you're destributing it without copyright, or licensing information

which means it's not open source :P

I did that for school, so there's a lot of bugs. The real open source one (which isn't open source yet since I'm trying to at least perfect it) is still with me at home, but I'm in Norway now

Obviously I'm teasing you a little, but it's not untrue what I'm saying

1:27 PM

No, of course

open source is more than just saying "hey, this is open source!"

It's just weird, I wrote that program the night before it was due...

Also, don't try to save it... It just creates an empty file with absolutely no contents for some reason...

Stupid javax imageio...

1:43 PM

Portal:Free software/categories

...

may have helpful information for you

@ziz why are you in norway

I'm visiting family :)

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

yep

1 hour later…

3:01 PM

Wikipedia Portals. That's an idea that never worked out.

3:19 PM

hey

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