ELL's Cabin

CopperKettle

00:43

@snailboat Cool!

@snailboat Thanks!

Jim Reynolds

05:43

hi

@Dam are you conscious?

Freddy

07:00

@jim I think he is on charging

Anonymous

Silly robots and their charging

Anonymous

You know, when I plug in my phone to charge it, I always think of it like I'm feeding my phone electricity. "Here you go, little phone! Eat until you're full!"

2

Anonymous

My phone gets hungry.

Freddy

@snail Just think if electricity is food then what are stuff phone shows on screen?

Jim Reynolds

07:23

Haha Freddy!!

@sna ... Do you have 12 or so mins to help me score the speaking part of a test?

Damkerng T.

10:53

@JimReynolds Hello!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

11:10

I said hullo @Jim!

@JimReynolds I'd give a -1 in a scale of 1 to 2.

Damkerng T.

11:59

-6

A: Two Posts Enter, One Post Leaves. - Merging identical questions (probably) intentionally asked on two sites

I would like to oppose this request from the poster. Please try to take some distance from the subject. Obviously the OP is of the opinion that they have to be merged or one of the questions has to be removed. Why? I hope it is not just for the sake of respecting the unwritten rule "cross posts ...

> Also comments and discussions on ELU can be more founded, interesting or sophisticated.

I don't think in this case it is. 1. The English Learners will benefit from the question. You cannot expect them to be on the other network. 2. I am looking for input from sophisticated English speakers too. The link you provided is a meta discussion and it talks about StackOverflow and ServerFault; two networks of which you can say the topics are easier separable than in the two English networks. Feel free to start a discussion on meta; it might yield interesting opinions I think. — Elyasin 19 hours ago

@Elyasin: I'm a little hurt that you don't think there are any sophisticated English speakers here ;) The problem chiefly is that synchronizing two questions on different sites is non-trivial, and you're not making any effort to do so anyway, so the result is that the same question gets a whole different set of often partially redundant answers. See also Should we close questions that are exact duplicates of open ELU questions?, where this discussion has been had, right here. — Nathan Tuggy 19 hours ago

Sophist is an interesting addition, but to me it has more to do with how convoluted their reasoning or argument is than picking apart someone else's solutions. — ColleenV 19 hours ago

> Also I see they provide more interesting answers. (Did you know Debbie Downer or crepehanger? for example. It's amazing I can learn that.)

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Oooh drama!

Damkerng T.

(the above are not from the same post, just here and there. The non-comment ones are what the OP said.)

It's interesting that Debbie Downer was mentioned quite a few times on ELL. So, if someone just read old questions...

2

Q: Word to describe a very negative, pleasure-killing person

I would try to find some more words or expressions to describe a person who is always being negative and brings down the mood of other people. As far as I can tell, there are "a sourpuss" and "a Debbie Downer". Can I use other words or expressions?

word-request

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

I don't agree that ELLers won't benefit if it's gone.

Damkerng T.

Interesting that it was the OP of the "a very negative, pleasure-killing person" question who brought the word Debbie Downer up.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

There's something called Google.

Also, the better learners, almost all of them, have accounts on ELU.

Damkerng T.

12:04

nods -- Also, it's obvious that Debbie Downer is not an uncommon word for some, and perhaps many, learners.

I think on ELL, we may not as sophisticated as the OP wanted us to be. As unsophisticated a person as I am, I would be more careful with simpler words such as suggest, which should never be used with to-infinitive.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Yeah, unlike LeP.

Intrinsically euphemistic exponential adversary.

Damkerng T.

nods -- I think some learners want sophisticate words for retaliation.

Which, IMHO, doesn't really help the situation.

But it's different from place to place. Each workplace has its own culture.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Yes.

Hiding childish acts behind a mask of big words.

It usually backfires.

Damkerng T.

nods

I wonder if our mod (J.R.) has seen the question or the mentioning of the duplication.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

I wonder where any of our mods are.

Me too.

Damkerng T.

12:14

But if I understand correctly, it's not the question that makes the difference between ELL and ELU. It's not even about the level of the speaker or whether the user is a native speaker or not. I remember that the line was about the kind of the answer the OP wants.

In this case, they seem to want something they can find at EL&U.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Yes, but identical posting is disallowed.

Damkerng T.

(By they, I mean the OP. I just realized that the OP's avatar is clearly male.)

nods -- So, it's better to choose the right stack at the first place.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

They should've at least mentioned what they found in one site in the other so the suggestions wouldn't be the same.

Damkerng T.

I haven't checked, but it looks like both questions on the two stacks were posted at about the same time.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Yes, bottom line, poor guy messed up unknowingly. I feel bad for him.

Damkerng T.

12:17

nods

All in all, I can see now that Meta.SE can be a lot more useful that I had thought.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Yes, don't worry about it being a waste land.

Useful posts come from time to time.

Damkerng T.

^*than -- but you sure know that. :-)

Somehow I feel like I'm still half awake.

May need some more tea.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@DamkerngT. Aaargh, how could I miss that?!!

HarryCBurn

13:14

Gah!

I also join and then never stay :(

I'll change that now ;p

Hey everyone!

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M "Useful"

23

Q: New Aviation Site Design!

Good news everyone, it was discussed on the Stack Exchange podcast, and we now have a site design. This should be rolling out as soon as we can get the design spec converted into workable CSS. Completed layout: If you have any comments before this is finalized, please let me know. Design con...

discussion status-bydesign design

:)

Damkerng T.

13:29

@HarryCBurn Looks attractive in a number of ways. :D

HarryCBurn

;)

Damkerng T.

I like it that the plane has got two eyes. And Kneaww! is irresistible!

HarryCBurn

Tempted to post my answer to the OS.SE question.

@DamkerngT. Hah!

;)

Damkerng T.

@HarryCBurn I think if its vector version's done right, it will look really great, and friendly at the same time. :D

HarryCBurn

@DamkerngT. It really is perfect, don't you think?

c:

Damkerng T.

13:31

@HarryCBurn I'm not sure if it's "sauce" they're discussing!

@HarryCBurn Yep. Reminds me of some vector illus. done by Mozilla.

HarryCBurn

@DamkerngT. Psh! Of course it is! It's totally not open source projects.

Damkerng T.

Ohhh!

:D

HarryCBurn

;)

I'm aware it's not sauce c:

Oh, my RPi came with a broken MicroSD reader :(

Damkerng T.

@HarryCBurn Oh, no!

HarryCBurn

Damkerng T.

13:34

@HarryCBurn Some open-source sauces could be nice for a change. :P

HarryCBurn

@DamkerngT. FLOSS Ketchup.

Damkerng T.

Hehe!

Refuel time. BBL

HarryCBurn

Cya!

CopperKettle

13:52

"This is someone else's cat" - I wonder what part of speech is else here..

Jim Reynolds

Adjective, at least that's one way of conceptualizing it.

CopperKettle

Thanks, @JimReynolds!

Damkerng T.

14:43

@JimReynolds Evening!

HarryCBurn

Hey @Jim!

Jim Reynolds

15:05

!!!!!!

Hi Guyzes!

I'm living dangerously. english.stackexchange.com/questions/260043/…

The last time I -1'd Little Eva, I got ... Wow!!

Of course, I'm not doing it for kicks. I'm just trying to maintain the cosmic polarity, and it needed a -1 there.

@Dam. Do you have time these days to listen to two of my students respond to a speaking task and give some ratings?

Oh. Is MAR here?

Damkerng T.

@JimReynolds Interesting questions.

Um... I meant question.

Jim Reynolds

Which one? Er, ones? O.O

Damkerng T.

@JimReynolds I may have my opinions on someone's speech, but I don't know if it's really useful for your students.

Do you have some sort of criteria that I can use in the evaluation?

Jim Reynolds

It's just a rating, like, how well do you think they performed. Yes.

Damkerng T.

Oh, I can try then, I think.

Jim Reynolds

15:13

And it's not going to decide anyone's future. I just want another ear or two, or laser-mediated wave processing device.

Yeah!

I

I'll send you an mp3 and the criteria. Maybe tomorrow. No big hurry.

Thanks!

Damkerng T.

@JimReynolds I can amp up my listening transceiver a bit. :P

Jim Reynolds

:-)

Damkerng T.

@JimReynolds No problem!

Jim Reynolds

You are like a breath of fresh hydraulic fluid.

Damkerng T.

LOL -- I take it that's compliment. Wait, is it a complement? :P

Jim Reynolds

15:16

hehe.

It's a bi-precipitative supra-junctive.

Damkerng T.

LOL

Jim Reynolds

(That's a good thing.)

Damkerng T.

Anything I don't understand is a good thing. :D

Jim Reynolds

:-)

Anonymous

15:38

@JimReynolds I'm here now.

Jim Reynolds

Hi!

I will post an mp3 file (my tomorrow, I think), of two students doing a speaking task on a standardized test, along with some simple instructions on scoring.

If you have time, maybe you can tell me what you think.

I just want to use it as a benchmark for my students to check against after maybe a year from now

I can still use any feedback some days from now.

And maybe me, Dam and you can compare our impressions. Might be interesting.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. I don't think it's especially common these days, but I'm sure some people say it.

Damkerng T.

@snailboat I guess it's well-known among learners because of the TV show.

Anonymous

There's a TV show?

Anonymous

Is that where the phrase comes from?

Damkerng T.

15:44

I think so. Some shows use a widely-known word as their titles.

Like Glee.

Anonymous

chat.stackexchange.com/…

Damkerng T.

Oh, it was just a character on Saturday Night Live.

Anonymous

Oh yeah? Like in the 80s?

Anonymous

Wikipedia says they debuted in 2004

Damkerng T.

IMDb seems to say so.

Anonymous

15:47

Can the term really be that recent?

Damkerng T.

Oh, 1975 is for the whole show (Saturday Night Live).

So Debbie Downer is more recent.

Anonymous

Wow! I always thought it was an older term.

Damkerng T.

I don't know the origin of this word.

Anonymous

COCA has 6 examples, all from 2008 or later.

Anonymous

The only pre-2000 examples in Google Books appear to be false positives.

Anonymous

15:51

I learned it from people saying it, I guess, not from SNL

Damkerng T.

@snailboat BTW, don't overcharge your phone... or it may turn into something like this...

:P

Anonymous

O_O;

Damkerng T.

(Just saw a rerun of The Amazing Spider-Man 2, so... :-)

Anonymous

Is that character in Amazing Spider-Man 2?

Damkerng T.

Yes. He called himself Electro.

Anonymous

15:53

Oh!

Anonymous

I thought it was Avatar

Damkerng T.

Hahaha!

I can see why!

Anonymous

I haven't seen Avatar either, but I know people are blue in it.

Damkerng T.

A moral we can learn from The Amazing Spider-Man 2 is that... don't forget people's name.

Anonymous

I can usually remember people's names, but...

Anonymous

15:55

There've been times when it's really embarrassing because I can't!

Damkerng T.

(Spidey had been a hero of Electro before Electro turned into Electro. He got mad at Spidey because Spidey couldn't recall his name.)

Anonymous

One time I couldn't remember, but I was too embarrassed to ask because I'd been seeing them around for months, and as more and more time passed, it just got worse :-)

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Some of my cases are even more embarrassing. Like a 10 grader friend said hello to me, and I had absolutely no idea who he was!

Luckily, the guy didn't turn into Electro. :D

I wonder what would be an opposite word of Debbie Downer.

Anonymous

Ursula Upper?

Damkerng T.

^I should've inverted it properly

@snailboat Sounds nice!

Umm... Ursula from Star Trek? :D

Anonymous

16:00

I was thinking more like Ursula K. Le Guin

Damkerng T.

Oh, that's Uhura.

Anonymous

Is there an Ursula in Star Trek?

HarryCBurn

@DamkerngT. Randy Up-raiser?

Anonymous

Stop being such an Uhura Upper!

Damkerng T.

LOL!

Anonymous

16:01

I can't think of a name that's associated with limitless positivity

Anonymous

Not like Debbie is associated with limitless negativity, so I guess that's okay :-)

Damkerng T.

How 'about Jill Overjoy? :P

HarryCBurn

@snailboat Trinity? Hope?

:P

Anonymous

@HarryCBurn The only Hope I know is not a source of limitless positivity :-)

HarryCBurn

@snailboat Oh no?

Damkerng T.

16:08

0

Q: Podcasts with text

I'm searching about a podcast for improving listening skill with it's text, speakers of some sources like ESL pod or VOA are speaking slowly and it's easy to understand what they're speaking, please introduce me some sources have text and more challenge for understanding .

listening

A stock reason on closing would be nice.

It could link to our resource page automatically, even.

HarryCBurn

Maybe too broad?

Anonymous

@CopperKettle Great question! Why not ask it on ELL? It's not easy to answer.

Damkerng T.

@HarryCBurn The reason of the first vote was too broad.

Anonymous

Japanese.SE has a stock reason for resource questions.

Anonymous

Sadly, you only get three, and most sites need at least four.

HarryCBurn

16:13

@DamkerngT. Yeah.

CopperKettle

17:19

@snailboat I would need to show some effort in investigating it myself, and I'm afraid I'm too lazy at the moment. ^_^

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@CopperKettle A very good question!

Anonymous

Well, I'm afraid I'm too lazy to write a chat answer :-)

Anonymous

Great question, though.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

And bah, people get tons of uploots for simple questions.

I mean non-researched.

CopperKettle

@snailboat Here's to lazyness!

Maybe Muhammad Ramezani will ask the question, I'll upvote it. (I've managed to spell the name right!)

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

17:24

Who's that?

CopperKettle

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M One friend of mine.. (0:

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Hmm, I don't even know how to start researching for that question.

Anonymous

Do you have a library near you with reference grammars of English?

Anonymous

Quirk et al 1985, Huddleston & Pullum (et al) 2002?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

You expect too much.

I have some honeydew slices beside me in a plate if you want.

CopperKettle

17:28

Honeydew (melon)

Honeydew also known as honeymelon is a cultivar group of the muskmelon, Cucumis melo Inodorus group, which includes crenshaw, casaba, Persian, winter, and other mixed melons. == Characteristics == A honeydew has a round to slightly oval shape, typically 15–22 cm (5.9–8.7 in) long. It generally ranges in weight from 1.8 to 3.6 kg (4.0 to 7.9 lb). The flesh is usually pale green in color, while the smooth peel ranges from greenish to yellow. Like most fruit, honeydew has seeds. Honeydew's flesh is often eaten for dessert, and is commonly found in supermarkets across the world. This fruit grows best...

Looks haram! I mean Halal!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Why would it be?

Oh.

CopperKettle

D'oh. The words look simliar..

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

BTW @snail I CAN'T believe you haven't seen honeydews.

Anonymous

o_O

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

I thought it was imported fruit.

Anonymous

17:34

Why would you assume I haven't seen honeydew before?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Because you put there a Wikipedia link ~~instead of Luna eating some honeydew~~?

Dunno, it just occurred to me.

user116848

Howdy!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Hullo!

A moment. . .

CopperKettle

Good evening, @Arrowfar!

user116848

@CopperKettle @snailboat Sup!

user116848

17:35

@CopperKettle Yo!

Anonymous

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Oh, I see! You saw CopperKettle's link and thought I left it.

Anonymous

That explains it.

Anonymous

That was CopperKettle.

user116848

@HarryCBurn Hi! How are we all today? :P

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@snailboat Whoops! My bad!

user116848

17:41

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M .AM era uoy ,deciton tsuj I

user116848

(I just noticed, you are MA)

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Ahem clears voice So BTW @Copper I CAN'T believe you haven't seen honeydews.

user116848

I was mixing up Copper and Snails as well.

CopperKettle

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M I don't remember, I'm not much into melons. It's only that I did not know this particular name, "honedew"

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Arrowfar .ɘǫnɘllɒʜɔ ɘʜƚ qu qɘɘʞ nɒɔ uoy ʇi ɿɘbnow I .no won moɿʇ ƨiʜƚ ɘʞil ʞlɒƚ ƨ'ƚɘ⅃

user116848

17:43

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M How ɒɿɘ you␚

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Kinda fine.

Am wrestling with a jar cap.

user116848

Ohhh give it to me. I'll open it.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

And now am wrestling with some gummy candy.

user116848

@CopperKettle You are quiet, busy?

CopperKettle

@Arrowfar Yes, a bit..

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

17:46

He's busy finding what else is.

CopperKettle

I'm proofreading at Lang-8

user116848

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M I still can't read this. I tried it in Mirrored software, and now I am tilting my head to 180 degrees.

user116848

@CopperKettle I see, good luck!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

MWAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHHAHAHHA etc.

user116848

txtn.us/mirror-words

user116848

17:51

Oh man my eyes are hurting now. I just read.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Read what?

CopperKettle

And reading neuroscience news (a gene identified that is associated with information processing speed)

user116848

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Your sentence above.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Hehehe! GIVE IN YOU HAZ NO CHANCE AGAINST THE MIGHTY WIZARD. MWAHHAHAHHA!

@CopperKettle Those identifications are far from being useful.

user116848

@CopperKettle Cool, I love it when you keep the conversation going with interesting stuff!

CopperKettle

17:54

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Sooner or later they will be of use

user116848

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Ahhh

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@CopperKettle That's soooo much future tense to rely on.

CopperKettle

And it's basically interesting to know how the brain works

user116848

Btw in real life I never say "Ah I see" etc.

user116848

I say "Hmm" "Mm mm"

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

17:56

I usually say mm. in a really bored mood/mode.

user116848

Mostly nothing, just a blank stare.

user116848

I get distracted when I say "I see" in a class that's why. Typing is different that's why I am always "I see", "Ahh" etc.

user116848

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Me too

HarryCBurn

@Arrowfar Hey! Good thanks! Expecting my replacement Raspberry Pi tomorrow :)

@Arrowfar "Oh, right!" is my go-to.

user116848

@HarryCBurn Whoa! Awesome! :)

HarryCBurn

18:05

@Arrowfar Well, would've been better if the first one worked ;)

user116848

Ah, yeah, of course.

user116848

So I have a mirror-words software open in another tab to have fun with MA :)

user116848

But mirrored words seem bad for my good eyes.

HarryCBurn

@Arrowfar Hah! What's the link? :)

user116848

@HarryCBurn txtn.us/mirror-words

HarryCBurn

18:08

(We always mess with people on Skype. I built I script to spam messages to someone.)

Cheers!

user116848

hehe!

HarryCBurn

:)

Anonymous

18:22

@CopperKettle I see you've had next time corrected to the next time.

Anonymous

I think next time is also fine, sans the.

Anonymous

Similar examples from COCA:

Anonymous

> I'll take it up with him next time I see him.

Anonymous

> My sister still has that old guitar. I'll have to get that next time I see her.

Anonymous

> If malware attacks or if I don't like the software I installed in the VM, I simply close the VM without saving its state, and the unwanted software will be gone next time I start up.

Anonymous

18:24

> Oh, right. How inconvenient. I suppose you won't be skiing this year either. Well, I'll see you next time I'm in town.

Anonymous

So in my opinion you can ignore that correction if you like.

Anonymous

However, inserting the is also fine.

Anonymous

In every example I quoted, the can be optionally inserted.

Anonymous

As for intrusive r, I've read that it's phonetically distinct from lexical r

Anonymous

For details, see: Perception of intrusive /r/ in English by native, cross-language and cross-dialect listeners

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

18:29

Oh, I think I'd have chosen the with-no-definite-article version.

Oh no, the Kettle is back! Run for your lives!

CopperKettle

@snailboat Thanks! It's that I myself had my anarthrous next time recently corrected at Lang-8, that primed me to overcorrect others

Anonymous

@CopperKettle Oh, I mean, I was looking at your journal entry.

Anonymous

I didn't think the correction on your entry was necessary.

CopperKettle

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M stay calm, I won't entrench upon your melon (0:

@snailboat Ah, I see! Nice!

Anonymous

Hmm, that paper doesn't seem to be online for free. Can you access it?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

18:33

Hmm, to quote an almost misleading sentence from an ELU answer:

> Else is always an adverb. . .

user116848

It says $32.

CopperKettle

@snailboat Only for $30

user116848

Wow!

Anonymous

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M I wouldn't argue with "else is always an adverb". But I'm afraid it might not be a very useful statement.

CopperKettle

Wow, they overcharge Pakistani users

user116848

18:34

@CopperKettle Yes apparently :(

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@snailboat Yeah. . .Everything is an adverb depending on how we look at it. . .

Anonymous

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Well, that doesn't make any sense.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Oh @Copper take a look at the last answer here:

Anonymous

@CopperKettle Here: quarplet.com/papers/…

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

2

Q: What usage and meaning of "else" is this

What is the usage and meaning of "else" in this example? The key difference between a program and a project is the finite nature of a project - a project must always have a specific end date, else it is an ongoing program. I thought "else" could only be an adverb, in which case it wouldn't ...

grammar word-usage

Anonymous

18:34

I uploaded it

CopperKettle

@snailboat Thank you!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@CopperKettle Pakistani users are special.

user116848

It is Pakistan baby!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Jul 11 at 11:09, by M.A.Ramezani

ELL's cabin is now the official ELL chatroom. For more info, jump off a cliff, and ping M.A. in the air.

:O Who's M.A.Ramezani?

user116848

good question.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

18:37

@Arrowfar Should I post it on ELL?

user116848

Your call.

user116848

Maybe at the Puzzles SE.

CopperKettle

Margaret Thatcher’s legendary nickname Laura Norder not only reflected her political preferences, but also the fact that, like most of her compatriots, she pronounces law and order with an intrusive /r/ between law and order.

Damkerng T.

@CopperKettle A strange not only.

Anonymous

You'd prefer it after reflected?

CopperKettle

18:44

@DamkerngT. Dunno.. it's from the article

Anonymous

The placement of not only is interesting, though I didn't notice anything weird sounding about it. I think the placement is somewhat flexible.

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Or maybe right at the beginning.

Anonymous

Anne Cutler is a native speaker and a linguist.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Before Margarat Thatcher? I think that would be ungrammatical.

Damkerng T.

@snailboat What about its current position?

Anonymous

18:46

@DamkerngT. Seems fine to me.

Damkerng T.

Interesting.

Anonymous

I can't speak for anyone else.

Anonymous

I do think it's linguistically quite interesting.

Damkerng T.

I think its current position doesn't look good, parallelism-wise.

Anonymous

Well, parallelism isn't a grammatical constraint.

Damkerng T.

18:49

Hmm... I don't know how to fix it.

"reflected not only" is probably the best choice.

Oh, some Spanish!

Anonymous

Portuguese.

Anonymous

I can understand why you'd want reflected there, though.

Damkerng T.

@snailboat A-ha!

Anonymous

It seems to have been factored out of the correlative coordination, but it appears after the first of the correlative elements, not before.

Anonymous

Spanish and Portuguese are very similar, though.

Damkerng T.

18:51

nods

Ding!

> Not only did Margaret Thatcher’s legendary nickname Laura Norder reflect her political preferences, but also the fact that, like most of her compatriots, she pronounces law and order with an intrusive /r/ between law and order.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@DamkerngT. IMO the also the fact that doesn't harmonize with not only.

Anonymous

Oh, it's grammatical at the beginning if you alter the sentence like that.

Anonymous

I think the placement of not only could make a very interesting question for ELL.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Yeah, but my about me.

Laziness is a bliss.

user116848

So we have no hard and fast rule I suppose?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

18:56

There's hardly any hard and fast rule in language stuff.

CopperKettle

@snailboat Not only could it make an interesting entry, but also promote some recondite grammar point among the masses. (0:

Anonymous

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Well, we can usually identify things that are across the line and things that aren't, even if the line is kinda fuzzy and hard to pin down.

Damkerng T.

@snailboat I think it could, but it's quite likely that it will be considered as a style issue.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Well, I guess? But it's clearly syntax.

Anonymous

People can consider it what they like...

Damkerng T.

18:59

Anyway, I think all alternatives can work if we allow for ellipsis.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@snailboat Yep.

Damkerng T.

^probably not a very kosher 'allow for'

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