TRPG General Chat

12:36 AM

I think this might not be a great question for the main site, so I'm going to ask here — is there a published D&D 5E short-run adventure in the style of Prey for Smiley Bob (from 4E)?

BESW

12:49 AM

21

Q: Free Basic-Rules-only adventure to showcase D&D 5e

With the free release of the 5e Basic Rules, I'm looking for an adventure to introduce myself and my group to 5e (in the spirit of this question): we want to try the system before deciding if we'll invest resources in the edition. The adventure should be useable out of the box with only free Ba...

detly

Ah, nice

Have you played any of those EN World entries?

BESW

Nope.

I've downvoted that answer, actually: it just says "here's some lists of stuff I haven't tried, maybe something will work for you" rather than actually supporting why I'd find any given module useful.

I'm kinda surprised it hasn't been firebombed from orbit as failing to meet basic game-recommendation requirements.

detly

Yeah, I don't like 3rd party recommendations where the poster hasn't actually played what they're posting

(Having said that, I posted a homebrew suggestion the other day that I hadn't really tried out, so, guilty)

BESW

1:13 AM

So long as the recommendation is supported, it doesn't have to be supported by first-person experience of the recommender.

I've supported recommendations with, eg, blog articles by other folks about their experiences with the product.

detly

What does supported mean in this context?

Oh, got it, NM

BESW

A very early iteration of Stack Exchange included a parenting site which ran up against the subjectivity problem big time.

> The folks at Moms4mom owned up to the subjective issue and came up with a set of principles to create useful subjective discussions on parenting: the Back It Up! Principle. Back It Up! means that your answers must be based on either:
- Something that happened to you personally
- Something you can back up with a reference
They talk about how “opinion, by itself, is noise.”

(source‌)

doppelgreener

@BESW probably because the rest of the answer is informative: "there aren't any, there are plans"

if it were just the recommendations it'd be nuked

detly

I feel like "something you can back up with a reference" shifts the can of worms one degree further

(to mix metaphors badly)

doppelgreener

@detly de-metaphor-ize that?

detly

1:25 AM

Before: post hypothesised answer on SE. No reference. Bad answer.
After: write a blog post about your hypothesised answer before posting. Post with blog reference. Good answer?

BESW

@detly No, downvoted-but-not-automagically-deleted answer.

detly

More generally, given that you can find a supporting article for pretty much anything on the internet, it doesn't even have to be your blog

Ah

Yes, okay, that's workable then

BESW

There are a lot of ways to provide an answer that fits the Stack's guidelines without being good.

2

detly

God point

*good

doppelgreener

no backup: deleted. irrelevant backup: deleted. poor backup: bad answer. great backup that is demonstrated as relevant to your answer and the situation: good answer. (unless the rest is crap.)

BESW

1:26 AM

But "at least make the effort to support it somehow" is a bar that eliminates a lot of noise.

Support can be challenged constructively; opinion invites simple disagreement.

@detly Yeah, the Stack Exchange's guidelines aren't so much "This is how you make a good answer" and more "We've noticed that answers which leave this stuff out are almost universally awful."

Adeptus

I've been looking for an introductory adventure for Dungeon World. I've found most of them dive too deeply into the whole DW philosophy, and just give you starting points rather than something you can more or less pick up & run. I found one or two that flesh things out more, though. I may end up running one this weekend if we're down too many players.

BESW

That could be a good mainsite question.

doppelgreener

1:43 AM

It does.

system-introduction would also be a relevant tag.

i think?

yep, it gets used for "give us a thing to introduce ourselves to this system with" questions

Adeptus

> What is a Dungeon Starter?
Dungeon Starters are a form of GM prep for running the first session of a Dungeon World game. Dungeon Starters don’t dictate plot, they’re not Fronts (you write those after the first session), and they don’t replace the GM playbook. They are for those times when you want to just sit down and start a game right then. Dungeon Starters provide a unified flavor to your prep but, when you get down to it, they are really just an unordered cloud of blanks and hooks with some appropriate moving parts to make sure the players don’t catch you with nothing interesting to s…

finemessgames.com/DWsupplements/dungeonstarters

(Personally, I don't find "an unordered cloud of blanks and hooks" help me much when I "want to just sit down and start a game right then")

I am coming from a D&D-style background, though. First-time-ever GMs, or ones used to more narrative and/or ad-lib style may find it easier

BESW

1:59 AM

Yeah, I'm getting better at listening to my players and riffing something from the cues they're giving me, but it's still hard to get them to telegraph stuff for a cold turkey game.

Adeptus

2:12 AM

Question asked. It may need some editing/improving.

user61230

4:20 AM

Oh, so! This is a long shot, but has anyone here played Unknown Armies?

user61230

I'm in the unfortunate position of needing to run a game for it with no prior experience.

BESW

@Emrakul Looks like @Wibbs might be able to help.

doppelgreener

WIBBS. WE CALL UPON THEE!

[tosses powders into the firepit]

JOIN OUR PRESENCE AND GRANT US YOUR GUIDANCE

user61230

You've summoned the Wibbs! Egads!

BESW

doppelgreener

4:25 AM

[magnesium! FWOOSH! gunpowder! SHAPOW!]

user61230

@doppelgreener gasp you changed!

doppelgreener

@Emrakul I did! They told me I could be anything, so I became the King of the Cosmos! Yes!

user61230

That is good news.

user61230

I assume you will be a benevolent King!

doppelgreener

Of course!

user61230

4:39 AM

Good. Couldn't have a nonbenevolent King.

Magician

A... Kosmos King?

doppelgreener

No. A FABULOUS KING.

@Emrakul You could! But I would probably roll him up into a star system.

user61230

Fair enough! xD

Miniman

@doppelgreener Where is he from?

doppelgreener

@Miniman Katamari Damacy

Katamari Damacy Soundtrack - 01 - Katamari on the Rocks

►

(give it about 15 seconds to begin picking up)

BESW

4:51 AM

@doppelgreener I would like to do something tomorrow evening, I just can't really mastermind it. Thoughts?

doppelgreener

@BESW A side-game. Ben's RFS zombies. One of Trogdor's sessions. Raptor apocalypse. Low-prep Dwarf session. (I've been too fatigued to do the proper prep for the dwarf session that I was thinking of doing, but I've probably thought about it more than enough and just need NPCs. This is a session that is going to go off the rails by design, having any kind of preparation and planning is contrary to the point.)

I am not confident in my ability to digest all of, say, Paranoia or part-time gods tomorrow.

(One day? One day I'll be capable of sitting down in the morning, reading, absorbing, digesting all of one of those. Not there yet. Mind isn't enabling it.)

Magician

There is... Goblin Quest. "A game of fatal ineptitude". Which should be rules-light and up to 4 players.

I've kickstarted it, but haven't played it yet. I could... read it?

doppelgreener

@Magician THAT HAS ILLUSTRATION FROM IGUANAMOUTH!

BESW

@doppelgreener [falls over, fainting-goat-like]

doppelgreener

[flips out with glee internally]

That sounds like a fun game.

Magician

5:02 AM

Sent you guys the dropbox link. Would be good to play it, whether this week or whenever.

doppelgreener

Who will be available this weekend?

user61230

oh my gods Goblin Quest

user61230

Is that what I think it is?

doppelgreener

Dan and I will be

@Emrakul kickstarter.com/projects/gshowitt/… ?

user61230

GLORIOUS.

Magician

5:06 AM

Two-to-six players. Huh. Wherever did I get 4 players from?

Miniman

Oops, just read what you actually said earlier.

doppelgreener

We Love Katamari Soundtrack - Katamari on the Swing (Song 4)

►

I like Katamari on the Swing.

(the woman in the background is the Queen of All Cosmos.

Wibbs

6:25 AM

@Emrakul waddaya need to know?

Miniman

2 hours ago, by doppelgreener

[magnesium! FWOOSH! gunpowder! SHAPOW!]

Wibbs

and why are you having to run a game with no prior experience? O_o

doppelgreener

WIBBS EMERGES

@EMRAKUL IS NOWHERE TO BE FOUND

NOOOO

The ritual was too small! The next one must be bigger!

Pixie

6:45 AM

The ritual... ah, memories. When someone BRBed from the chat my friends and I used to keep up, the rest would begin talking about "the ritual" and loudly deny it upon the BRBer's return. "What ritual? There's no ritual. We're not planning to sacrifice you. What?" "This is definitely not an altar."

doppelgreener

XD

Niiiiice.

Pixie

[blink] I have just learned that some people put milk in their tea-brewing vessel before their hot water. This would never have crossed my mind.

Adeptus

@Pixie In the teapot? MADNESS!

I've heard that the "proper" way to do it, is to put the milk in the cup before the tea... but I no longer have milk in my tea anyway...

Pixie

@Adeptus Or cup or what have you. :P I guess this is debated about in countries where tea is consumed more regularly. The thing with putting the milk in first is that it will mess up your water temperature, so I would never do it myself.

doppelgreener

@Pixie Me neither!

Pixie

6:59 AM

But I guess water temperature isn't an important factor for everyone, and I read something about how putting the milk in after denatures proteins or something and affects the taste. There are definitely multiple factors.

doppelgreener

But then, perhaps that is a useful thing for some low-temperature (80 degree) teas? Put in milk, pour just-boiled water on top, get not-quite-boiling fluid to steep the tea leaves in.

Pixie

You don't traditionally put milk in lower temperature teas, though I do it anyway, and I'm sure many others do. xD But I wonder if that would give you the correct temperature.

Wibbs

Alas it seems my summoner no longer requires my services. I shall proceed to melt into a puddle of primordial goo before mysteriously turning into a sepia vapour that disappears in the breeze

doppelgreener

[covers mouth, because breathing in Wibbs-vapour would be weird.]

Miniman

@doppelgreener Definitely wibbly.

Adeptus

7:09 AM

@Pixie The proper way to do it, is to brew the tea in a teapot, then pour it into your cup (that already has milk in). Uncultured barbarians like me just put a teabag in the mug, then pour boiling water on it.

Miniman

@Adeptus Wait, so if that makes you an uncultured barbarian, not drinking tea makes me...?

Wibbs

@Adeptus real aficionados make sure the cup has been licked clean by the virgin bride of a local mystic though

user61230

AAAHH THE NOTIFICATIONS HAVE SUMMONED ME

Pixie

@Adeptus For best temperature control, you should also warm the teapot first and use a tea cozy. I do none of these things, usually. :P

Miniman

@Wibbs @Emrakul At last, the conjunction.

Now the final ritual can begin.

Adeptus

7:11 AM

user61230

@Wibbs Hiya!

user61230

Running a game with no prior experience because there's no one I know in the area who has played before

Adeptus

(source)

Pixie

@Adeptus [gasps]

doppelgreener

@Adeptus this needs to be a teacup

but maybe that is double-anarchy

more than that it should be a black mug

Pixie

7:13 AM

But true rebels would drink their tea in a coffee mug, wouldn't they?

doppelgreener

yes

i actually had a beautiful black mug once with COFFEE written all over it, and took quiet glee in brewing tea in it

@Adeptus that mug 2.0: make it fully black (not white with a black band), have the anarchy symbol in heat-sensitive ink.

Pixie

@doppelgreener [whispers to cup] "You're not my mom."

doppelgreener

@Pixie LOL

user61230

@Wibbs I mean, honestly, my first question would be: is this even a good idea to attempt?

Adeptus

@doppelgreener That would be cool. Or hot, depending... It is available with black handle & rim, or black inside, or entirely heat-sensitive - so it starts all black, then fades to white-with-design. (it's on Zazzle, those are their standard options)

Pixie

7:20 AM

I should use my tea pot again. It's a bit of a pain to clean, but it's easier to do full leaf that way. I just can't drink a whole pot...

Wibbs

@Emrakul how long are you intending to run it for, and is it a pre-written scenario?

@Emrakul What type of games/stories are your players used to and enjoy, and what do you like running as GM?

Adeptus

@Pixie My wife has a bunch of single-cup pots (with matching cup)... these sorts of things

Pixie

@Adeptus I keep meaning to get one of those.

doppelgreener

@Adeptus how does that even work

i just picture like... someone lifting one handle up... and all the water spills out of it... and all I can picture is this surreal scenario where the person carries on as if that is a feature and how it's meant to work

or is this a teapot that inserts into a cup

Pixie

Yeah, I think it's a teapot that sits on top of a teacup.

doppelgreener

7:25 AM

OH

it is a hemisphere teapot!

user61230

@Wibbs I was thinking one of the defaults. I normally play Fate, though I like Burning Wheel. Less so d20 systems. As far as stories, very narrative-driven games.

Adeptus

doppelgreener

@Adeptus clever

Pixie

I rather desire one of these little guys. 16 oz happens to be the minimum capacity of my electric kettle. Also, it is a tiny owl.

doppelgreener

@Pixie That is adorable.

Wibbs

7:32 AM

@Emrakul Narrative driven is good, as they tend very much towards that style of GMing. The default feel of the game is dark and mature, with some of the styles of magic being very, very dark, particularly in the way you get your charges. I haven't actually run any of the defaults at the back of the book, but have heard good things about Bill in Three Persons simply because of how weird it is. It's only issue is that it doesn't provide pre-made PCs

It's very much theatre of the mind stuff

Broadly, rules are pretty straightforward to pick up, although there are some significant wrinkles in the way the dice mechanic works.

You'll definitely want some kind of flowchart thing for combat (which I can handily provide if necessary)

How long you got til you run it?

user61230

7:49 AM

Flexible time schedule, thankfully.

user61230

So it sounds like the game will work well with the group, which is good.

user61230

A combat flowchart would be great.

user61230

Hmm... does raise the question. Should I pregen characters?

Wibbs

depends on whether you intend to carry on afterwards

the chargen is unusual and can take people some time to get their heads around.

It's also relatively freeform so its possible to end up with characters with a bunch of skills useless for the adventure you're writing (there are no predefined skill lists)

I would recommend pregens for people new to the system

user61230

Fair enough!

Wibbs

7:54 AM

What i've got isn't so much as a flow chart as a cheat sheet, which forms part of a GM screen with all sorts of stuff on it. How can I get it to you?

user61230

Email works. Will send; feel free to copy it, then I'll delete it.

Wibbs

got

user61230

thank you so much!

Wibbs

sent

user61230

Wonderful!

user61230

7:57 AM

Ooooooh, this is helpful.

user61230

thank you

user61230

Gonna head to sleep, but thank you muchly for the advice and sheet!

Wibbs

no problem let me know if you have any questions and stuff

BESW

11:29 AM

Autocorrect just changed "chargenning" to "chagrinning."

trogdor

lol

close enough

Aaron

12:05 PM

Good morning

doppelgreener

Good morning!

David Reeve

morning

sillyputty

12:27 PM

Hullo all!

Aaron

Who else was playing Swarm Simulator

Rook

Greetings and well met.

BESW

[wave]

Anaphory

12:58 PM

Hi

sillyputty

Yeesh, I am having a rough time trying to come up with a unique Vampire: Masquerade character concept that fits in with the rest of the group.

Anaphory

Swarm Simulator looks well-made

wax eagle

@Aaron I'm playing :)

on my 5th (I think) ascension

Aaron

Nice.

I just got the swarm warp mutation.

5 days and 6 hours of production with each use

wax eagle

@Aaron that's ridiculuos, yeah, between my bats and swarmwarp I go 11d 16h at a time

Aaron

1:12 PM

I think my next mutation will be mutation frequency

Joshua Aslan Smith

1:32 PM

@waxeagle how was working late?

wax eagle

1:48 PM

@JoshuaAslanSmith more productive than actual work lately :(

@Aaron have you done bats yet?

Joshua Aslan Smith

@waxeagle you see about that 5e errata sheet

made me laugh

wax eagle

@JoshuaAslanSmith yeah, some very funny stuff on there. A lot of it we'd pretty much surmised was intent here between dev comments and close readings

Joshua Aslan Smith

yes that, but also they made such a big deal "Read my lips no new taxes" style of saying there would not be errata

Aaron

@waxeagle Yup

Sandwich

2:50 PM

Whooo

Is KRyan here?

Miniman

@Sandwich Sidebar says not.

Sandwich

Boo

Miniman

(And he doesn't tend to be on a regular basis.)

Joshua Aslan Smith

you just made me want a sandwhich

Sandwich

I'm the kind of sandwich you should never eat

Joshua Aslan Smith

2:51 PM

@sandwhich you can ping him with the @kryan and ask him whatever you want and if he logs in or checks via the app he will see it

Sandwich

Because then I'll just make you hungrier

And then reappear on you

Like a lodestone

@KRyan Hey guy :o

KRyan

3:07 PM

@JoshuaAslanSmith only works because I've been here recently, sadly

luckily, was here yesterday so it works

only mods can @ someone from chat and have it always work

I wish I could like, opt-in to allow people to do it whenever

Joshua Aslan Smith

@KRyan oh weird

yeah I guess Im in often enough

KRyan

@Sandwich anyway, what did you need?

Sandwich

Oh yeah

I did the full round to find the deed with the hero point

I got a 35 on the check

I rolled a 17

KRyan

nice

Sandwich

So I'm endeedened now

Just wanted to say that since we were talking about it yesterday

Time to go shower

KRyan

3:22 PM

nice, congrats

SolidusVerum

5:26 PM

If anyone would be so kind as to give me some GM advice I'd really appreciate it. As this is primarily opinion based I'm gonna bring it here. D&D 5e

I have a player who when wrote this as his backstory. A Half-Elf who was found by gypsies and had a pendant around his neck. They raised him and trained him [criminal background] and he went out on his own. Got older broke the pendant, and his mothers voice explains that she is the queen of an Elvin Kingdom and his Father was a Human Ranger...

He goes back to the city and everything is destroyed. His goal now is to seek vengeance on the destr…

My current plan is to rule this way:

"As a half-elf you would never be allowed to be the ruler, however your [make up some relative] who is a full-blooded Elf is now the ruler and after proving yourself they make you an ambassador."

I don't want to completely shut down this players idea, but something it doesn't sit right with me.

What would a more experienced DM do?

Pixie

@SolidusVerum Are your reservations primarily mechanical, plot-related, or both?

wax eagle

@SolidusVerum why not combine the two? Backgrounds are something that basically beg to be tweaked

SolidusVerum

@Pixie Plot related.

wax eagle

certainly this should be a huge source of BIFT

Joshua Aslan Smith

Are you worried about mechanical balance or story implications? Also do you know the intent of the player?

wax eagle

5:32 PM

and I'm not sure I see any reason to shut down the shot at ruling either

SolidusVerum

@waxeagle I'm sorry what's BIFT?

wax eagle

@SolidusVerum Bonds/Ideals/Flaws/Traits the RP elements of a background

Joshua Aslan Smith

If you are worried about mechanical balance you could have the player slowly swap elements of one background for another

Miniman

@SolidusVerum Well, right off the bat I'd point out that becoming a King wouldn't give him the noble background.

SolidusVerum

@Miniman Correct I'm more concerned with plot than mechanics.

Joshua Aslan Smith

5:33 PM

For example, in gaining servants he loses touch with criminals whom no longer trust him and he isnt able to keep abreast to changes in thieves cant

Miniman

His background is criminal, what he is now won't change that

wax eagle

20th level characters are basically gods not quite in the same way they were at 30 in 4e, but it's not that far off (specially if they embrace the magiks)

so king is by no means out of reach

SolidusVerum

The thing that kind of puts me off is that we already have a Noble in the party, and it just doesn't make sense to me that an Elvin kingdom would embrace the Illegitimate Half-Elf son of a former queen.

Miniman

@SolidusVerum Ah, ok. So this is more about you not wanting him to be a king than anything to do with backgrounds

SolidusVerum

Correct.

Joshua Aslan Smith

5:36 PM

so if its an issue with the PC's backstory being out of step with the world/party you created then I would err in favor of your world

SolidusVerum

It is a great story hook for me to work with, but it just doesn't seem right.

Joshua Aslan Smith

though generally this is the sort of problem you try to nip in the bud by co-editing player backstories together

alternative mechanically he can remain the criminal background

SolidusVerum

@JoshuaAslanSmith That's what I'm in the process of doing.

Joshua Aslan Smith

and storywise you play it off as him avoiding the trappings of nobility as much as possible because they make him feel uncomfortable

Miniman

@SolidusVerum That depends on the kingdom, how seriously they take illegitimacy, whether there's another potential heir. Or in other words, it's entirely up to you

Joshua Aslan Smith

5:37 PM

and he keeps all the background skills because they are what he grew up learning

SolidusVerum

@Miniman He wrote into the story that the Queens enemies tried to have them all killed.

...so there's that.

Pixie

Sometimes things just aren't right for a game, like focus on politics on a high level might not be ideal for the group as a whole. Sometimes there are also lore reasons. If this is the case, it really needs to be clarified to the player directly.

SolidusVerum

I'm okay with him having Noble blood and a criminal background. I'm just struggling with a Criminal Bard becoming the King of a country.

Miniman

Personally, I'd see elves as natural traditionalists, so I'd have them support the rightful heir

Joshua Aslan Smith

oh, well various historical countries had all kinds of inheritance laws for titles

Pixie

5:39 PM

But keep in mind that you do have the power to make this work if you want to, and it's not even that much of a stretch. Kind of common enough to be cliché, I'd say.

SolidusVerum

@Pixie I instantly thought Lone Star from spaceballs.

Zachiel

Idiom: to hit ...; meaning "to make an attempt even if with the lowest chance of success". Why, stupid memory?

Miniman

@SolidusVerum The character with an 18 in charisma is going to do pretty well as a king, generally

Zachiel

@SolidusVerum was it the fortune cookie?

SolidusVerum

@Zachiel pretty much.

Zachiel

5:41 PM

Or was it Yoghurt when giving the cookie to Lone Star?

Miniman

Bards are kind of natural leaders

Zachiel

The bad part is I last saw the movie the day after Easter.

SolidusVerum

@Miniman what would a gypsy raised criminal bard know about ruling a kingdom?

Miniman

And he should be pretty good at talking people into supporting him in his claim to the throne

Sandwich

Sounds like a pretty mary-sue background to me

Zachiel

5:43 PM

How many Knowledge: royalty ranks has he got?

Pixie

The thing is, elves can be xenophobic if you want (it's not unusual to have elves disrespect half elves), but you can go other directions, and species don't have to be monoliths.

Miniman

@SolidusVerum Nothing, but that's not really the point

SolidusVerum

@Sandwich mary-sue?

Miniman

It's not about whether he'll be a good king, it's about whether he can manage to become king

SolidusVerum

@Zachiel none

Miniman

5:45 PM

And he can probably do it pretty easily

Sandwich

Mary-sue is a term where a person writes a character who is obviously and inherently better than every other person by means of plot contrivance or unique attributes

SolidusVerum

@Pixie well the wood elf kingdom they've met so far isn't very welcoming, but as for "his" homeland I have no clue.

Miniman

Once he's king, of course, you get to mess with him

Sandwich

The chance of someone being actually born royalty and that their royal parents had a tryst with a human ranger is impossibly slim odds

SolidusVerum

@Sandwich and you just put words to why I don't like this idea.

@Miniman valid

Miniman

5:46 PM

Rebellion, invasion, famine - really he's just letting himself into problems he wouldn't have had to deal with

Sandwich

@SolidusVerum Its fun to be unique, but its obtrusive to be TOO unique

SolidusVerum

@Miniman Well first the team would have to fight and defeat whatever destroyed the capital city... so there's that.

Pixie

@SolidusVerum Yeah. My point is mainly that you can make this work workout clashing with preestablished details and notions if you want.

Sandwich

@SolidusVerum If you really want to screw with him make it so that the person who originally created the amulet was an evil wizard and that it gave him a task to do or something to that effect before returning to his homeland

Miniman

@SolidusVerum Also, I should point out that I was assuming you had already okayed his back story

Pixie

5:48 PM

I am not especially fond of Mary Sue terminology and concept, but that's a debate for when I'm not on my phone. :P

Sandwich

If you create a situation with a character and they are used by an evil entity their revenge will seem more plausible in retrospect

SolidusVerum

@Miniman I have not. He emailed me the first draft and asked for suggestions. Which is why I came here.

Miniman

It's perfectly reasonable to tell him to stop using tired cliches

Sandwich

And it will do it without seeming too much like a Mary-Sue

SolidusVerum

The problem is that I get the feeling that he really likes this idea he came up with, and I don't want to absolutely blow it out of the water.

Miniman

5:51 PM

I mean, heir to the throne is bad enough, but raised by gypsies to boot? That's starting to cross the line into parody.

SolidusVerum

@Miniman yip

Sandwich

@SolidusVerum I'm sure if his father was actually Darth Vader he would like it more in the end

Miniman

Get him to watch The Court Jester.

Sandwich

Make it so that his father, The Human Ranger, wasn't quite the paragon that he was cracked up to be

SolidusVerum

@Sandwich OOOOHHHH that is a GREAT idea.

Sandwich

5:52 PM

Give the ranger cross-class Ranks in Wizard, have him create an amulet to bring his son to him

SolidusVerum

This particular PC though is giving me a few problems.

Sandwich

Or have the amulet send him on a quest and then bring the quest reward back to the place specified

Miniman

Anyway, 4am and posting on my phone, long past time I disappeared

Sandwich

So he can take it from them and then escape in a puff of smoke

Give the characters motivation for actual revenge

Instead of the pretense of revenge through backstory

SolidusVerum

How would you guys go about undoing this?

Sandwich

5:55 PM

Let him "think" that is how his backstory actually went

But manipulate him in the background

Pixie

I actually don't have major issues with the back story except that being raised by "gypsy" thieves is... eh, it invokes unpleasant racial stereotypes. It's widely considered a slur, and chances are your world doesn't have Romani anyway, so that's the part that stands out as making the least sense. It's like saying "I'm Scottish." in a world without Scotland.

Sandwich

His Father is the BBEG pulling all the strings

SolidusVerum

@Sandwich doesn't that cause problems though?

Sandwich

Explain.

Narrative is one of my particular specialties, so I'm happy to elaborate in a way that shouldn't cause you too many problems.

SolidusVerum

I'm just concerned that he'll have this idea that he's about to inherit the thrown, and I'll be like "SURPRISE YOU'RE THE SPAWN OF HITLER"

Sandwich

5:57 PM

It sounds like you're taking this too many steps at a time

This is something that in the end will be revealed in a climactic battle, and the stuff leading up to it will be exposition

SolidusVerum

Explain how you would manipulate the situation without leaving the PC feeling like the DM betrayed them?

Pixie

@SolidusVerum This is something you seriously have to be careful about. Be careful that when you're planning machinations behind the scene, you do it in a way that will ultimately be fun for your player and not feel like, well, a betrayal.

Sandwich

Alright so at this moment

All the information that the character knows in game is from the broken amulet

SolidusVerum

@Pixie That's why I wanted your guys' input before I sent him suggestions.

Sandwich

That's the precursor that will lead to your macguffin

SolidusVerum

6:00 PM

@Sandwich what's a macguffin?

Pixie

I'll have some more advice later, but my lunch is sadly ending. XD

SolidusVerum

@Pixie Thank you so much for you input.

Sandwich

The evil wizard/ranger created an Amulet who showed an image that the son would be manipulated by, and the Half-elf believed it because he was raised by gypsies and doesnt know better

The amulet explained that the son was "Royalty" in an attempt to get him back to a certain location to claim his "Birthright"

But in reality he's just being used by the Big bad evil guy

@SolidusVerum A Macguffin is a powerful or mystical object that someone must retrieve for a quest, like the Holy Grail, the Golden Fleece, the Hand of Vecna

Any "object" can be a Macguffin

Any particularly desirable object anyway

At the location the amulet specifies, have a burned out town and another amulet hidden in a chest or something

SolidusVerum

@Sandwich Without the player being conscious of my scheme I'm concerned that they won't react well to it. Knowing this persons personality SUPER well, I have a feeling that he won't react well to that manipulation of his background.

Sandwich

That will be the second arc that will lead to the actual retrieval of the macguffin for the evil guy

Explain it as

"The object you must retrieve is an (insert object here) that was hidden and embossed with the royal seal, if you have such an object in your possession it will prove your birthright"

"Only members of the Royal family know of its location."

This is when you start dropping hints

Start adding things that might convince the player in question that they're being manipulated

Like the object they retrieve not having any kind of seal on it ( Have them roll Knowledge (nobility) or hide the object at the end of a tomb filled with undead

The thing is, there are three main points to his backstory

As long as those three points remain in place, anything else you do with it is fine

1. His parents were royalty ( except one wasn't the paragon his son thought he was )
2. He was raised by gypsies
3. His hometown was destroyed ( by his evil wizard dad )

SolidusVerum

6:08 PM

@Sandwich well that does make more sense

Sandwich

He will feel compelled to finish this quest to get back his birthright, only to find out that the one who has been manipulating him all that time was his evil father

Which will manipulate him for actual revenge instead of contextual revenge

If you make it into a quest it will mean more to him in the end because its something he's actually had to bleed for to make happen

Instead of something that just already happened and "Grr i'm angsty because my hometown was destroyed"

He knows his hometown was destroyed

But he doesn't know that his father burned it down in an attempt to usurp the throne

SolidusVerum

I'm guessing the Elf-Queen got whammied by a charm potion or something to not see this coming.

Sandwich

What system are you playing in Solidus?

There's an Elixir of Love present in most editions of Dungeons and dragons

Its just a potion that mimics a Charm person spell

If you create the potion with Heighten spell you can increase its DC

Though most fantasy stories have little things where if you are poisoned over time you become more susceptible to said poison

In the scene where the PC brings the Macguffin to his dad, have the dad use an illusion spell like Major image to disguise himself as a ghost or something to that effect

And when he finally grabs the amulet, he cackles in laughter, the ground starts shaking, and the skeletons of the people in the village burst from the ground

SolidusVerum

@Sandwich We're playing d&d 5e

Sandwich

Yeah you could probably manage all that in 5e then

As long as you have the buildup, the town burnt down when they arrive, the second amulet playing its message, and the macguffin raise dead amulet

That's all the important parts

SolidusVerum

6:34 PM

@Sandwich thank you for the help!

Sandwich

You're welcome Solidus, I'm always in chat if you ever want to swing by and ask a Narrative question.

Now I'm going to go grab some McDonalds and drink a coke