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10:18 AM
I wonder why the chat is so inactive today
356 messages today with 144 from @DavidW and 114 from me leaves 98 for the rest of the members lol
With 1.3k average per day
 
Hi @DanielFischer
 
Greetings
@robjohn Do you see a way of doing this one without contour integration?
$$\int_0^{\infty} \cos\left(x\frac{x^2-\pi^2}{x^2-e^2}\right)\frac{1}{1+x^2} \ dx=\frac{\pi}{2}\exp\left(-\frac{\pi^2+1}{e^2+1}\right)$$
 
@Chris'ssis Do you do any contour integration?
 
@Committingtoachallenge I have lots of integrals done by contour integration.
 
@Chris'ssis Oh okay, I thought they were complex analysis
 
10:26 AM
@Committingtoachallenge Yeah, indeed. For my book I'm going to only use real methods ...
 
Oh okay, so you are able to do contour integration, but for the first book(and possibly only book if you do retire) you are going to be using real methods. If you do a second book it will be using complex methods?
 
@Committingtoachallenge I don't retire, but most probably I leave any math community. I might do some math once in a while (not sure).
 
@Chris'ssis Oh okay. We will miss you surely
 
@Committingtoachallenge Especially you. ;)
 
@Chris'ssis Yep ;)
And Jasper
@Chris'ssis Do you do any linear algebra or abstract algebra in your problems at all?
I would be interested if there was some mingling of topics at all
 
10:32 AM
@Committingtoachallenge Integrals, series and limits only.
Well, in the math community I met more haters than in any other part of life. If I wanna ever continue my work, I can do it alone, away from any kind of community.
I don't say if from the experience here.
 
@TimDavids Hi.
 
Hi @Daniel
 
Is a linear operator just a transformation matrix with necessarily a basis given?
E.g. If we were given the standard basis, we could define a linear operator with some matrix
But that matrix can change completely depending on basis
 
@ᴇʏᴇs Hi, how is it going for you?
 
@Daniel Not that great academically I guess since I'm really behind
 
10:37 AM
If anyone can answer that lets move it to the L&AA room

 Linear & Abstract algebra

For any discussion concerning linear, abstract or even element...
 
@ᴇʏᴇs Oh pity. Anything in particular you're behind with, or is it general?
 
@Daniel Number theory I haven't understood anything since the first lecture, and most proofs in complex analysis I can't follow
 
@ᴇʏᴇs Not good. How far are you in (that is, how far is it since the first lecture)?
 
@Daniel 6 weeks
 
Oy, that's a lot :(
 
10:42 AM
Good thing people told me not to take differential geometry next semester or it would've been worse than now
 
Yes, if you try to do too much at once, you don't get anything done.
 
I think my main issue with those classes is that the professor makes huge logical leaps in between steps and I feel like it's nigh impossible for someone like me to fill them in on my own
 
That can be a real problem. Have you a good book?
 
No, there's no suggested texts for those courses
For number theory I don't think one exists since he's teaching original concepts he created
 
Oh for real matrices symmetry isn't dependent on basis, but rather on the linear operator and the inner product
 
10:46 AM
For complex analysis he gives some proofs that I couldn't find in the books I have
 
@Chris'ssis well, it certainly won't be any easier. The essential singularity at $x=\pm e$ makes that interesting as well.
 
@ᴇʏᴇs Hmm, originality in a subject like that where the proofs have been simplified a huge lot isn't usually a good thing. The standard proofs tend to be standard for a reason.
 
@robjohn well, one can choose the proper contour to avoid those by small indents. A big semicircle with 2 small semicircles at those points.
 
@Chris'ssis I dislike small indents, especially in the case of essential singularities.
 
@robjohn Why?
 
10:54 AM
@Chris'ssis It is cleaner to simply move the entire contour a finite amount. Furthermore, being close to an essential singularity makes it hard to perform the integral over the indent.
 
@robjohn Right.
 
@Chris'ssis I am assuming that the residues at $z=\pm e$ cancel each other
 
@robjohn I don't find it now, but I had somewhere some result that might help me there for a real method.
@robjohn OK
 
@Chris'ssis I would think a real method needs to control the argument to cos somehow
 
@robjohn Exactly.
 
11:03 AM
@robjohn The integrand is even.
 
@DanielFischer If you have a chance could you have a look at my post, maybe you can see why my approach doesn't work?
 
@DanielFischer yes, that is what makes it good for contour integration
 
@TimDavids I'm off cooking in a moment, so I'll look later.
 
@DanielFischer Thanks
 
@robjohn And says that the residues are "odd", so the residues at $\pm e$ cancel indeed.
 
11:05 AM
Hi @robjohn Good morning .
 
@DanielFischer yes, otherwise the integral would be much more difficult.
@Theorem hey there
 
11:46 AM
@robjohn Did you meet Pedro ?
 
11:58 AM
Hi, Is there anyone who knows about semidefinte matrices, can take a look at mypost, math.stackexchange.com/questions/1189200/…
 
12:30 PM
Bonjour a tous.
Je reviendrai en un demi heure.
 
@Owatch what does that mean ?
 
I'll be back in a half hour.
And Good day.
 
Huy
12:53 PM
Anyone TeXing on an iPad?
 
1:20 PM
yes
 
Good morning @Owatch
And @Huy, and everybody
 
Huy
@infinitesimal: Which app are you using?
 
6
Q: Installing ChatJax bookmark on the iPad and iPhone

skullpatrolI have a 16 GB Apple Mini iPad using iOS 8.1.2 and am unable to install the bookmark found here that renders LaTeX in the Math StackExchange chat room. I can't find a browser with a bookmark bar to drag the given link to. Other users in the room have also been unable to render LaTeX with their ...

 
Holy crap, I almost forgot! HAPPY PI DAY!!!!!!
4
 
Huy
1:32 PM
@infinitesimal: I didn't ask about rendering LaTeX in this chatroom.
 
@teadawg1337 Gute Morgen
I have chosen the problems.
 
Alright, give me a few minutes for my cold medicine to kick in
 
Not so early morning start today Tee Dog?
 
It's ridiculous no one answered this one
 
1:39 PM
My immune system is already fighting off my allergies, so I must've caught something yesterday :(
 
That is not fun.
I have no known allergies.
 
Lucky....
 
@teadawg1337 ^^^
 
I get sick somewhat often\
 
@robjohn @DanielFischer with some cleverness one can finish this one ALSO by real methods $$\int_0^{\infty} \cos\left(x\frac{x^2-\pi^2}{x^2-e^2}\right)\frac{1}{1+x^2} \ dx=\frac{\pi}{2}\exp\left(-\frac{\pi^2+1}{e^2+1}\right)$$
 
1:41 PM
But I never feel it
Just shows symptoms
If it's bad though, I will feel sick.
 
I get sick really often, I hate it
 
I just finished this one without pen and paper
 
:<
 
@teadawg1337 ^^^
Do you want me to tell you the answer? Maybe you miss some fun then ...
 
@Chris'ssis I'm not as experienced as you, I still have a ways to go before nearing your skill level
 
1:45 PM
$\int{\frac{3t-2}{t+1}}$
I will factor
 
There is no factoring in that one @Owatch
although it can be simplified
(by expanding)
 
OK, I also finished the generalization too.
@teadawg1337 ^^^
Let me add the generalization to my book ...
Be sure I'm not the only Romanian in this chat. @iwriteonbananas, how are you doing?
Anyway, I have to add that series. BBL.
 
yoyo
i wouldve long killed myself in that case
lol i dunno why u think im romanian
 
@iwriteonbananas Hope you're not Romanian and you don't spy on me. ;)
 
(jk :P)
i spy on you
i see you right now. why are u only wearing underwear?
 
1:53 PM
@teadawg1337 Yes I was a little unsure how it could be factored. I guess not.
 
you should consider taking fish oil capsules
 
lol
 
@teadawg1337 How do you suggest expanding?
 
Hello!! Has someone an idea about the following??
 
@Owatch $\int \frac{3t}{t+1}dt-\int \frac{2}{t+1}dt$
 
1:58 PM
0
Q: Why is the last relation a function of $\eta$ and not a constant?

Mary StarIn my notes there is the following: $$U_{\xi \eta}(\xi, \eta)=0 \Rightarrow \frac{\partial}{\partial{\eta}} \left (\frac{\partial}{\partial{\xi}} U \right )=0 \\ \Rightarrow U_{\xi}(\xi, \eta)=a(\xi) \\ \Rightarrow \frac{\partial}{\partial{\xi}}\left (U(\xi, \eta)\right )=\frac{\partial}{\parti...

 
@teadawg1337 I did not see that.
But it makes sense. Very nice
 
@Owatch What can you add to the first integral to simplify the numerator and denominator? Remember to apply the opposite operation to the second integral to maintain equivalence
 
One?
$\int \frac{3t}{t+1} + 3 - \int \frac{2}{t+1} - 3 *dt$
 
No, try again
 
three
 
2:01 PM
and what does the integral become after that?
Wait, you need to add/subtract $\frac{3}{t+1}$, not just 3
 
Why?
Oh
Because It must have the same denominator to be added?
Okay, but denominator will remain the same once combined.
 
@Chris'ssis Did you find a substitution that simplifies the argument to cos? I was looking at some, but nothing I've found yet seems to help much.
 
$\int{\frac{3t}{t+1}} + \frac{3}{t+1} - \int{\frac{2}{t+1}} - \frac{3}{t+1} * dt$
 
Not exactly, it's just important to note that $\frac{3t}{t+1}+3$ isn't the same operation as $\frac{3t}{t+1}+\frac{3}{t+1}$
@Owatch That's correct
 
$\frac{3t^2}{2} + ln(t+1) + c$
 
2:06 PM
@robjohn It's more complex than using a simple substitution.
 
@Owatch Almost. What's $\frac{3t+3}{t+1}$?
 
$\frac{3(t+1)}{t+1}$
$\int3 dt$
 
which simplifies to 3
 
$3 \int dt$
3t?
Must be
 
Yes, that's the correct first term.
 
2:09 PM
Second is not correct?
$\int \frac{dt}{t+1}$
 
Not quite, but you're almost there. Recall that I asked you to apply the opposite operation to the second integral, but notice that there's already a factor of -1 in front.
 
$\int \frac{1}{u} dt$
u = t+1
 
No, wait.
 
Alright.
There was a -1
And a -1 inside the second integral
So move it out, change to +
 
Back up a minute
 
2:11 PM
Ok
 
I asked you to apply the opposite operation to the second integral, but notice the negative in front before the operation is applied.
 
Yes
Must I do opposite operation or something?
Opposite of opposite operation?
 
Think of it this way: in order to maintain equivalence, anything added to the integral must equate 0.
 
I must add it, if we are subtracting them?
 
You effectively added $\frac{6}{t+1}$ to the expression
the second term should be $-\int \frac{5}{t+1}dt$
 
2:15 PM
I see
Because if I subtract, I double subtract when combining them?
 
$$\Huge\pi$$
7
 
Not exactly. Don't group together the second integral with the $\frac{-3}{t+1}$
Ignoring the denominators, the intended operation is to add by three and subtract by three.
-2-3=?
 
Okay, so I added by three on one side. And made the denominator a match so I can add without modifying the three accordingly. Then I must undo this operation. Since I am subtracting, I cannot subtract from the other side, because I will have subtracted twice? I must add the same to the other side so that when I subtract them they neutralise each other?
 
You're making this more complicated than it should be. Let's ignore the integrals and apply a more general case.
 
Sure
 
2:20 PM
Let's turn this into, say, $\frac{3x}{x^2}-\frac{2}{x^2}$
Wait, that doesn't work. Hm.....
 
If the previous version was hard, then what to say about the alternating version, that is $$ \sum_{n=1}^{\infty} (-1)^{n+1}H_n\left( \sum_{k=n+1}^{\infty}\frac{1}{k^3}\right)$$? :-)
 
Let's use the same terms, just ignoring the integrals @Owatch. $\frac{3t-2}{t+1}=\frac{3t}{t+1}-\frac{2}{t+1}=\frac{3t}{t+1}+\frac3{t+1}-\frac{‌​3}{t+1}-\frac{2}{t+1}$
 
Okay.
Now, you will get $\frac{3t+3}{t+1} - \frac{3-2}{t+1}$
Which is
 
No no no no no.....
 
I am trying to show that if you combine that way you don't get left with 3t-2?
Okay, go on
 
2:24 PM
Let's just look at the last two terms, and ignore the denominators
 
3 - 2?
 
@DanielFischer The question I wanted to ask is different to the one in the post I provided a link to.
 
@Owatch -3-2
 
Oh, yes. Ok
 
How are you getting -1 from that operation?
 
2:26 PM
@TimDavids Aha. Then what did you want to ask?
 
@teadawg1337 Because I had made $\frac{2}{t+1} - \frac{3}{t+1}$ into $\frac{2-3}{t+1}$ in error?
 
You subtracted from inside the term that was already negative, effectively adding three to -2
 
Yes
When our objective was to 'add'?
 
I messed up when explaining this very early on
 
So we could subtract?
 
2:29 PM
I said to apply the opposite operation to the second integral, but what I meant was add 3/(t+1)-3/(t+1)
 
Ok.
 
Outside of the two integrals
Then combine terms with the same sign
I apologize for confusing you, @Owatch. Does it make more sense now?
 
@teadawg1337 $\frac{3}{t-1}$? Did you mean 2?
 
No, think of 3/(t+1)-3/(t+1) as an operation in front of the two integrals, not inside
 
Okay, yes.
 
2:35 PM
But with common denominators, they can be combined with the corresponding integral
I'm talking about after the expansion from (3t-2)/(t+1)
 
ok
 
@DanielFischer Can you maybe see why $f$ is not differentiable at $(0,0)$?
 
So, what's the second integral?
 
$\int \frac{y}{(y+4)(2y-1)}$
 
No, back to the previous problem
 
2:36 PM
Oh
 
what's -(2+3)?
 
$3t - 5ln(t+1) + c$
 
There you go! Was it my explanation that threw you off?
 
I solved while you were explaining.
*fixed
I understood the mistake.
 
Okay, on to the next problem.
 
2:40 PM
@TimDavids If you look at the lines $y = c\cdot x$ for $c\neq 0$, you have a cusp at the origin for that slice of the graph. The graphs of differentiable functions have no cusps.
 
I made it $\int \frac{y}{2y^2 - y + 8y - 4)}$
Then I think
I can split it up
But it's difficult
 
Use partial fraction decomposition, don't distribute the denominator
 
My bad
I can't split numerator
y - y = 0, y + y, = 2y
 
Don't have to, Recall the definition of partial fraction decompostion
We're trying to find numbers $a$ and $b$ such that $\frac{y}{(y+4)(2y-1)}=\frac{a}{y+4}+\frac{b}{2y-1}$
 
@DanielFischer Okay. Would it be right to state that a function is not differentiable at a point if the tangent lines at a point do not lie in the same plane?
 
2:45 PM
@Owatch multiplying through by the denominator yields $y=a(2y-1)+b(y+4)$
 
What.
 
@DanielFischer Since $f_{x}(0,0) = 0 = f_{y}(0,0)$ but when $y = x$ the tangent at $(0,0)$ is the vertical line alone the z-axis.
 
What did you do with Y
 
What's wrong with me, really? I'm so d**n creative! :D
 
@Owatch It must satisfy the second equation
 
2:47 PM
Done with the alternating version.
 
It can't.
 
@TimDavids How do you define "tangent line"? For the $f$ in question, it may be so that the tangent lines at the origin don't all exist.
 
@Owatch the point is to find numbers $a$ and $b$ in order to satisfy the equation.
 
Oh, is that the equation?
 
@Owatch We're solving for $a$ and $b$ using $y=a(2y-1)+b(y+4)$
 
2:50 PM
I just made y = a/(y+4) + b/(2y-1)
 
No, it's impossible to solve the equation you just typed
 
I don't know what I'm doing.
 
That's why I'm here helping you through it, alright?
 
Ok.
What am to do to solve?
What do I want to solve first?
 
@Owatch The equation that I typed out twice. Think, how can we solve for $a$ and $b$ using the equation above?
 
2:53 PM
@DanielFischer I am referring to the tangent line of the curve $C$ which is the curve of intersection of $y=x$ and $f(x,y)$. So that has a vertical tangent line as I showed in the post but $f_{x}(0,0)$ and $f_{y}(0,0)$ are both equal to zero, so the tangent lines at the origin are not in the same plane. What do you think? Tangent line being line which touches the curve at only on place.
 
You want me to substitute Y with that?
 
@Owatch no, that'd just result in infinite recursion. What could we do with $y$ values to solve for $a$ and $b$?
 
I don't know what you do with Y values. But you can distribute a and b into (2y-1), (y+4) (respectively)?
 
No, I'll just tell you. The way to solve for $a$ and $b$ is to plug in $y$ values such that either $2y-1=0$ or $y+4=0$
That's the key to partial fraction decomposition
 
Ok.?
So I choose #1
y = 1/2
 
3:00 PM
Plug that in for $y$ and solve for $b$
 
y = a(0) + b(1/2 + 4)
 
You forgot to plug in $y=\frac12$ on the left side
 
oh
b = 1/9
 
Yup! Now, solve for $a$ using the same method
 
a = $\frac{4}{9}$
 
3:04 PM
@TimDavids Yes, if $f$ were differentiable, the directional derivatives would be the appropriate linear combination of the partials, and hence the tangent lines would sweep out a plane. That doesn't happen here, so $f$ cannot be differentiable. But where you have no differentiability, the concept of tangent line becomes a little intricate. The "touches at only one point" thing is bad, consider a straight line for your curve. Oops, the "only one point" completely screws things up.
 
@Owatch Yup! Now, what does that make $\int \left(\frac{a}{y+4}+\frac{b}{2y-1}\right)dy$?
 
@DanielFischer Oh okay, how do would you define it?
 
@DanielFischer Hello!!! Could I ask you something?
If $u(x,t)=A(t-x)+B(t+\frac{x}{2})$ and we have the initial value $u(x,0)=f(x)$, do if we have $u(x,0)=f(x) \iff A(-x)+B(\frac{x}{2})=f(x)$ or $u(x,0)=f(x) \Rightarrow A(-x)+B(\frac{x}{2})=f(x)$ ?
 
@teadawg1337 It makes it $\int (\frac{4}{9(y+4)} + \frac{1}{9(2y-1)}) dy$
 
@DanielFischer Yeah I see your point but who cares about a tangent to a straight line :)
 
3:08 PM
@Owatch Yup! Expand that into two integrals and evaluate it :)
 
@TimDavids Mostly such that the tangent line exists if and only if the curve is differentiable (with non-zero derivative) at the point. Sometimes it is useful to forget about the orientation and say that a tangent line also exists at cusps - like the $C$ in the question has - by splitting the curve and looking at one-sided derivatives (using a suitable parametrisation of the parts of the curve).
 
@teadawg1337 I should split?
It will be 4ln + ln something
i think
 
@Owatch $\frac49\int\frac{dy}{y+4}+\frac19\int\frac{dy}{2y-1}$=?
 
@evinda If you have the equation - that is, $u, A, B$ are determined - then you have $\iff$. If $u$ and $f$ are given and you look for $A$ and $B$, then $\Rightarrow$.
 
$ \frac{4 ln(y+4)}{9} + \frac{ln(2y-1)}{18} + c$
 
3:12 PM
The first one is correct, but the second requires a $u$-sub
 
@DanielFischer I am looking for $A$ and $B$ , so I should use $\Rightarrow$.
Thank you!!! :-)
 
Does it
Oh
Is it right now?
 
@Owatch Mhm! :D
 
Okay, I will need to rewrite. I also need explanation why we split original integral into a and b
This is now how I recall solving
These problems
Oh wait it is
I had not done many of these, that is why I forgot
Okay, very good. I rewrite.
 
@DanielFischer Something else, with similar ideas. If you consider the function $g(x,y) = \{ \frac{y^{2}(x-y)}{x^{2}+y^{2}}~~\text{ if }(x,y) \neq (0,0) \text{ and }~~0~\text{ if } (x,y) = (0,0) \}$. We then have that $g_{x}(0,0)= 0$ and $g_{y}(0,0) = -1$. Would you expect the tangent plane (assuming it exists) at $(0,0,0)$ to be $y + z = 0$?
 
3:18 PM
@TimDavids Since that is the plane spanned by $(1,0,0)$ and $(0,1,-1)$, yes, that is the only candidate for the tangent plane.
 
@Owatch How many more to go?
 
@Owatch Are you gonna do every single problem in the chapter
 
@teadawg1337 Could you explain how this changed to the line after that you wrote on chat after? I see you multiplied by denominators (cross) but why did you do that again? Is it just another way to write it?
 
Why did I do what again?
 
Its linked
@ᴇʏᴇs No
I am doing maybe 10% of each section
 
3:23 PM
@Owatch We should probably be doing more as practice, though
 
@DanielFischer Kewl thanks.
 
Well, you should be. I'll help you
 
@teadawg1337 Two chosen problems remain after this one.
 
Unless the 10% are the most difficult ones
 
But I am only capable driver in house right now, and must suddenly drive granny to the store.
I will rewrite this, but will need to go briefly.
I agree, practise would be good.
 
3:24 PM
@Owatch We should make our own chat room eventually, our work is starting to fill up the chat
 
@DanielFischer One more thing I want to confirm. For the function in the post $f(x,y) = x^{\frac{1}{3}}y^{\frac{1}{3}}$, would you say that the level curves are just hyperbolas of the form $xy = c^{3}$?
 
@TimDavids Well, those and the not-hyperbola $x\cdot y = 0$.
 
@DanielFischer Oh yeah so basically $x = 0$ and $y = 0$.
Those lines.
 
 
1 hour later…
4:31 PM
@robjohn Do you think its a good idea to transfer my question to Mathoverflow ?
 
@DanielFischer For my original question with regard to the post, how do you see that there is a cusp at the origin? How do you define the branches of the cusp?
 
@TimDavids If you slice along $x = y$, you have $z = \lvert x\rvert^{2/3}$, and we know that $\lvert x\rvert^\alpha$ has a cusp at $0$ for $0 < \alpha < 1$.
 
5:15 PM
Guys, first peano axioms says : for all a , ( Sa =/= 0 ) , do you guys view it as specifying the property ( Sx =/= 0 ) holds for ALL numbers in the universe of the model, or do you guys view it as specifying that the property \forall a ( Xa =/= Y ) holds for a specific tuple ( S,0 ) ?
 
5:39 PM
@MikeMiller im confused. let $G$ be connected, and $p:\tilde{G} \to G$ be a universal cover.
let's fix base points $e \in G$ and $\tilde{e} \in \tilde{G}$ where $\tilde{e}$ is mapped onto $e$
 
Is the fundamental group of $\mathbb{R}^3- X$ usually different from that of $S^3-X$?
 
then we get a lift $f: \tilde{G} \times \tilde{G} \to \tilde{G}$ which will probably define our group structure in $\tilde{G}$ (right?)
 
Is this from May?
 
sorry?
 
Your problem.
 
5:41 PM
what's May?
 
Oh, some algebaraic topology book where there was a (at least superficially) similar problem.
 
If it is indeed the same problem, a friend gave me typed solutions to it, which may be of use.
 
oh nice
can u pass me the solutions?
what does May mean by fundamental thm for covering spaces?
 
5:45 PM
@iwriteonbananas Are you taking topology too
 
thx
@ᴇʏᴇs yes
 
@iwriteonbananas Cool, I am taking it next year
 
See page 28.
The condition for their being a lift of $f$.
 
oh the lifting property
@ᴇʏᴇs start studying now
 
Hello @Gloria
@iwriteonbananas I am, I'm using an easy book
Hi @Ted
 
5:47 PM
hi mr eyeglasses
hi bananas
 
heyho ted
 
hello, if i have $x_{n+1}= f(x_n)$ where f is continuous ,if $x_n$ has a convergent sub sequence $x_{\varphi(n)}$ , is $ x_{\varphi(n)+1}$ converge to the same limite ?
 
Hello @Ted
 
hi @teadawg ... hmm, my ChatJax won't load
 
I'm helping @Owatch in a separate chat at the moment
 
5:49 PM
That's good, @teadawg ... I'm stewing over all the random, arbitrary downvotes I keep getting from someone despicable
I'm going to reboot Chrome, BBIAB
 
what is a "fundamental nbhd" ?
@ᴇʏᴇs which book?
 
is ChatJax working for everyone else?
 
it is for me
 
ay
 
@iwriteonbananas Mendelson
 
5:53 PM
Hi, I am still alive.
 
hi Jasper
 

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