12:06 AM
The feeling of getting mysterious Misplaced \omit  with \begin{multicolumn}...

@yo' \begin{multicolumn}? Where did you find this jewel?

@yo' that's the expected behaviour

@egreg in my own code at 1am? Is multicolumn the environment that \usepacage{multicol} provides, no? :D

@yo' multicols

@yo' Yes, of course. Go to bed.

12:08 AM
@DavidCarlisle I know (now)

TUG 2015 details are out! tug.org/tug2015
4

@egreg I will
€260? OMG!
ah, €75
What if I'm a student speaker? Do I have to pay €260 or can I pay teh student fees?

12:27 AM
0

TUG 2015, this years meeting of the TeX Users Group will be in Darmstadt, Germany, from July 20 to 22. Who would like to go there? Does anybody plan to make a presentation? April 10 - bursary application deadline. May 1 - deadline for abstracts for presentation proposals. May 15 - dea...

3

@yo' oooo an excellent idea.
Now I need to come up with a proposed topic... :-)
Stupid American question incoming: most (or all) of the presentations will be given "auf Englisch", correct?

@PaulGessler I've done so already :)
@PaulGessler I suppose all. It's not a DANTE meeting. Some may be in French, since Darmstadt is surely considered a French city by some French people, and they never speak English at a conference at home.

@yo' ok, in those cases, I can just watch the pretty beamers... :-D My French is nearly non-existent.

@PaulGessler Duck revolution! <3

@PauloCereda and only $90 fee ;) 12:35 AM @PauloCereda oh no! Die Ente-Revolution! @yo' :) @PaulGessler Yay! @michal.h21 btw, have you got a driving license? @PauloCereda do you drive? @yo' Over 150km/h. :) @PauloCereda that's legal in Germany ;) @yo' this is @PauloCereda's car: 2 12:43 AM @yo' <3 @PaulGessler oooh TO THE DUCKMOBILE! @PauloCereda I ask because: I consider driving overnight from prague. Starting at 1am and arriving in Darmstadt on Monday 7am. Why? You get empty highways and save one night in a hotel. @yo' I'd need an international driver's license. @PauloCereda ah you prbbly don'tt have it :( @yo' Nope. :( @PauloCereda or drive faster than the authorities 12:49 AM @DavidCarlisle Also a good plan. :) btw, I don't reallly like the conference options for hotels. I've got a twin bed for 67€/night just 15 minutes walk from there... 1:03 AM @PauloCereda Would you care to make a for TUG15? 1:22 AM 6 hours later… 6:58 AM What the..... Why on earth I get that language? 7:09 AM @HarishKumar @PaulGessler had the same earlier. chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/20252551#20252551 14 A few minutes ago, when I viewed profile pages on my phone, the tabs were all in Portuguese: On the mobile interface: On the full site But it didn't happen on my desktop, and now it's back to normal. Other users report that the site is normal, but Seth says it's still happening, so I've ... 7:33 AM @TorbjørnT. Oh!. But why? Thank you any way :-) @TorbjørnT. Now it became normal. I noticed it when I visited karlkoeller's profile page. So I doubt it is Italian and may be the site is very (over) intelligent to identify the location in the profile page! Phew. But it doesn't happen always! I am lost, I think :) 7:56 AM @HarishKumar It's Portuguese I think, same as the others. As for why, I have no idea. 8:21 AM @TorbjørnT. we all just blamed @PauloCereda:-) 1 hour later… 9:30 AM @JosephWright trying to push things along a bit:-) 9:47 AM @DavidCarlisle :) 10:27 AM @HarishKumar It's part of @PauloCereda's plan to take world domination. @egreg In a partnership with @DavidCarlisle. :) @PauloCereda That would fill the world with undocumented features. 2 @egreg LOL @PauloCereda If you ever finished writing your manuals, there would be fewer undocumented features. I'm sure that's what @egreg meant. @DavidCarlisle Saw that 10:35 AM @DavidCarlisle :) 10:51 AM @egreg Damn! Clever invasion :-) @HarishKumar “Invasion of the duck snatchers” @egreg Duck lovers! and cricket fans! 11:09 AM @JosephWright test failed, looked like I missed one case in fltrace which was "error free" but made it skip two blocks at a time (there are unmatched brackets in messages which meant finding the matching braces was a bit painful:-) @JosephWright the tests now pass, but running full suite again.... @HarishKumar @PaulGessler I added your two screenshots to the MSE thread about it. 11:42 AM @yo' thanks. For me it went back to English after about an hour. @PaulGessler probably it's solved, but not yet any info from SE Powers 1 hour later… 1:00 PM Hi there. Can anyone explain to me what does lax-permissive mean? I am going crazy with the license descriptions. I want to use my first choice WTFPL but FSF has a warning about it that I also don't understand gnu.org/philosophy/license-list.html#WTFPL What the heck is a patent treachery anyways? @percusse FSF's definition of lax permissive is here: gnu.org/philosophy/… basically lax permissive licenses don't prevent someone from taking the code and making a proprietary release of it (whether direct re-use or with improvements) and that is against the FSF copyleft mantra I was wondering. Can one locally disable line breaking after \mathbin elements? Eg I have a macro that typeset its two arguments as,say [#1,\allowbreak #2], #1 and #2 are either simple symbols or in the form of A+B, A-B. I'd like this macro to not allow line breaks after + or - (or similar). Ideas? @PaulGessler And FSF is as weird as the lawyers in my humble opinion. It is impossible to understand even the issue let alone having a stance @yo' Thanks. Same here. It reverted to normal after some time. 1:15 PM @percusse Licensing is regrettably complex @JosephWright I'll just go with WTFPL and change it later when I understand the problem :) @daleif {#1},\allowbreak{#2} @percusse It's only a problem if it's a problem for you. That is if someone takes the code and starts selling it, would you be worried? @DavidCarlisle, wouldn''t that disable stretching/shrieking? @daleif yes @Dav 1:29 PM @DavidCarlisle Nope. I actually would like to promote such usage as long as it won't have repercussions when they attempt to patent it which I think FSF is mentioning that . @daleif \begingroup\binoppenalty10000 #1\endgroup then:-) oops, hmm, I'd like to still have that feature. I'll add {..} for now, this is just the first pass. (got some nice Emacs macros out of this rewrite though) @DavidCarlisle, nice. BTW: is there a keystrok to address a person instead of cliking on the name that pops up? @daleif don't think so:-) but note reply isn't same as starting a new message with @ Isn't the stuff that pops up when I type @D the same as writing @DavidCarlisle directly by hand? 1:57 PM @daleif yes but different from replying. That is shown as an @ but the actual markup is a : followed by the id of the comment and it makes a back arrow to the referenced comment (and the referenced comment highlights if you hover over the reply) @daleif the previous message was a reply, this is a new one starting with a ping to you, note the lack of an arrow at the left Ahh, nice. Not been using the chat much. @daleif where do you get your cricket news from? Not much cricket going on where I am. @daleif That's why you need Psmith's reports from the world cup (currently taking place in Australia and New Zealand:-) @PauloCereda where is Psmith when we need him? 2:12 PM @DavidCarlisle This does exactly nothing: the value of \binoppenalty is unique throughout a formula; the one current when the formula ends is used. @egreg yes I know (a voice at back of my head was telling me that as I wrote it, but I was distracted (day job, you know:-) so carried on anyway....) @daleif ^^^^ @daleif The sad answer is no, you can't. Either you give up to stretchable/shrinkable space or disallow breaking after a binary operation in the whole formula. If the output must be in brackets, I'd go with the former strategy. 2:28 PM @egreg This works doesn't it? \tracingall$a+b x+\nobreak y$\bye ---------- ...\mathon ...\teni a ...\glue(\medmuskip) 2.22217 plus 1.11108 minus 2.22217 ...\tenrm + ...\penalty 700 ...\glue(\medmuskip) 2.22217 plus 1.11108 minus 2.22217 ...\teni b ...\teni x ...\glue(\medmuskip) 2.22217 plus 1.11108 minus 2.22217 ...\tenrm + ...\penalty 10000 ...\glue(\medmuskip) 2.22217 plus 1.11108 minus 2.22217 ...\teni y ...\kern0.35878 ...\mathoff @egreg although perhaps modifying the inner token list is cheating? @egreg it is as you might have guessed intevals (using only [] syntax). Lickily it seems the original author have made everthing using two arg macros, så it is easy to convert into using say the interval package. I'll add it on the next pass @DavidCarlisle Adding an explicit penalty is the only way to disable the automatic insertion of \binoppenalty or \relpenalty. @egreg It'll all be fixed in luatex... @DavidCarlisle A good addition would be that each mathchar carries its own penalty, respecting groups. The penalty might be automatically assigned from the type, unless overridden. @ Just need to write the mlist_to_hlist callback. As for Frank's questions the other day about paragraph line breaking, it would be good if luatex exposed a lua wrapper for the existing function so you could modify it rather than rewrite from scratch. @egreg ah it does supply that: node.mlist_to_hlist so you could have a callback that did the standard thing then went through and changed some penalties.... 2:44 PM @DavidCarlisle I have found the way for my problem, and I confirme playing with \count\footins=0 \count\footins=1000 solve the problem of even pages too short but in my case it doesn't matter, because as it is for // typesetting, the right page is many time not full 2:59 PM I am looking for a way to count the number of words in a LaTeX document. I know of several word counters. What I'm looking for though is which ones are precise and would give me a breakdown to main text, captions, footnotes and exclude any formulae (or better yet: count them). Any recommendations? @Szabolcs There's no precise meaning of a word count so that's going to be tricky! @JosephWright Yes, that's true. I'm trying to fit into tight limits ... I wish they'd just suggest a word counter they use, that would make it simpler. @DavidCarlisle Yes: I think my name is only on the docs for 'admin' reasons :-) (When Morten was 'away') @Szabolcs That question is asked every few weeks here or in comp.text.tex or any other tex forum, there are lots of answers (none of then that robust) @JosephWright oh is it, I didn't even notice that! 3:11 PM @DavidCarlisle Morten and I had some discussion about a bug report recently (came to me, I passed to him) The good answer is probably that word count is a stupid metric. Specify a LaTeX template instead and ask to fit in a certain number of pages using that template. @Szabolcs a long while ago when people were discussing different tools to count words on comp.text.tex I posted this (almost all the tools fail) ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/plain/contrib/xii @DavidCarlisle that code is very amazing. I take time to understand it... but does not matter @DavidCarlisle Have decided we need some more work on case stuff :-) @DavidCarlisle Expect checkins later @JosephWright OK. I wonder if we are done for 2e now. (Or if I should do that comma accent stuff, or if we should cycle round again and start over....) 3:20 PM @DavidCarlisle I hope we are at the point that other people can test! @JosephWright yes but Ive hoped that before is there any catalog of ist styles? 3:36 PM @yo' locate .ist | grep texlive/2014 | grep '\.ist$' | wc -l gives 90 entries, most of which are project specific.

@egreg yep. I realized that there seems to be nothing like this
btw, is it on purpose that amsthm's proof has much larger stretch on topsep than theorem?
it's something that really really bothers me just now.

@yo' Editorial choice

3:56 PM
@egreg yep, bit strange one, if you happen to have quite more whitespace on a page thanks to a large formula. Also, hardcoded (probably to save a csname I suppose). Anyways, I redefined it.

1 hour later…
5:14 PM
@yo' -- that's a good question about amsthm's settings for \topsep. i've tried digging in amsclass.dtx (texdoc amsclass for easier reading) and its history, and can't even find a default setting for \topsep; it's always environment-specific. i'm putting the question on our list -- may end up being an archaeological dig. but i agree, it's counter-intuitive, and on the surface, looks wrong to me. i'll try to get some opinions from my colleagues, but can't promise anything soon.

@barbarabeeton don't worry really, I copy-pasted the code for proof and made the change myself. I need to say though that I've always been a bit unhappy about the fact that proof doesn't use \@thm internally, it would make things a bit more systematic for people who do modifications to the design

@yo' -- not "worrying", but i do get bothered by inconsistencies and unnecessary kludges. note -- i said unnecessary. i've seen kludges that were the best that could be done at the time, hence "necessary". but the ones that i accept are properly documented. this isn't. hence, at the very least, questionable. bah, humbug.

@barbarabeeton you really say "humbug" in English? I thought that it's a German word
humbuk - blague
humbuk - bunkum
humbuk - eyewash
humbuk - flam
humbuk - hoohah
humbuk - humbug
humbuk - jazz
humbuk - gammon (informal)
humbuk - take-in (informal)
humbuk - kid (slang)

@yo' -- clearly you've never encountered ebenezer scrooge, protagonist of charles dickens' "christmas carol". (a mainstay of our local theater group, adapted from the novel.) meaning: "bosh" or "nonsense", or even "don't bother me".

@barbarabeeton thanks, interesting :-)

5:42 PM
@yo' -- i "have" found a reason to consider the present behavior a bug in amsthm. the value for \topsep is established in quite a different way in the ams document classes (which have theorem handling built in) from what's in amsthm, and the result is such that there wouldn't be any notice taken here where everything is processed with the ams document classes. really does need to be looked at.

6:00 PM
Hey! :)

According to WHO, one of ten people in the world suffers from a mental disorder. If nine friends of yours are fine then what can you conclude? :-)

@stalkingisn'ttolerated you can conclude that you will fail your statistics class.
4

@yo' Oh my ghost. :-)

@stalkingisn'ttolerated I don't know, I am a duck. :) Ducks are terrible with math. :)

@PauloCereda :-)

6:19 PM
@PauloCereda can't ducks travel in the luggage compartment? That could be cheaper ;)

I would like to use LaTeX to make some short math snippets and auto-include them in some other figure which is made with some other program. The other program can import PDF. What is the best way to proceed when all I need is a PDF that contains only the equation I typed?
I found the standalone package, there's just only one problem:
The crop is always tight, which makes it hard to align pieces in the other software. Is there a way to make alignment easier? For example, get some information about where the baseline is. Or do not crop tight, instead make the result PDF as tall as a full line, even if all it has is an $x$ (i.e. something that doesn't extend high or below the baseline)
I'm pretty sure someone must have asked this before but I couldn't find it yet ...

@Szabolcs \documentclass[margin=5pt]{standalone}. It's in the documentation, if you opened it :-)

@yo' I opened it. It also called border. Doesn't it simply add a fixed width border?
That won't help with alignment.

oh sorry it seems not to be there

Maybe it's not easy to do this, LaTeXit! doesn't align either:

6:28 PM
ah I misread your post. That's a bit unusual way of using standalone, but ok.

it's not exactly easy to do. what do you need it for?

Notice on this screenshot that x^2 has the baseline lower than x. What I'd like is have enough information so I can align such pieces after they have been separately generated.

@Szabolcs you ask for (almost) impossible IMHO. but not because LaTeX couldn't do it, but because I don't see how the problem is even defined.

@yo' I'm creating figures with Mathematica. Mathematica's typesetting is not always good enough for the requirements I have ... I want to make a Mathematica package which will make it easy to use LaTeX-generated labels and annotation on figures. Sometimes I need to make sure that several annotations are at the same height in the figure, even though they're separate pieces.
@yo' If I could e.g. get the PDF file with some accompanying information that says "the baseline is at 10% from the bottom of the PDF" or "the baseline is 2 pt above the bottom", I could use this for alignment.

6:32 PM
@egreg I thought \LetLtxMacro was required in all cases involving a command with a mandatory argument. Apparently this is not so?

@Szabolcs ok, it still doesn't define well the problem. TikZ can export the baseline height for you, but it can't include this information in the PDF file, since this notion is unknown to PDF

@Szabolcs how should one document, isolated from the rest, know how big the rest of the documents are? The only way is to define your own \mystrut as a zero-width rule with height and depth equal to the biggest thing you'll be producing. Then stick \mystrut in the body of each document.

@PaulGessler but this get cropped by standalone anyways :-)

@PaulGessler It doesn't. All these are single-line documents. All I need is the baseline position relative to the PDF bounding box. I don't need it embedded in the PDF, I just need to automatically capture this information.

@yo' I think it is not that dramatic. If you roughly know what you might get as the size you can measure the boxes

6:34 PM
@yo' not on my system...

@Szabolcs Can you make a concrete example so that these philosophers don't wander off to the TeX paradise? :)
Mathematicians...

alternatively, this would be good: if two documents use the same font size and only inline math (no display math), then they should have the same height, which would fit something like $M^2 g_2$. Even if the actual content is only as tall as $x$.

\documentclass{standalone}

\begin{document}
Test. \strut
\end{document}
gives a larger pdf page size than just Test.

let me try that @Paul

@Szabolcs Yes? :)
(I know it wasn't for me, but I got the ping)
Maybe @PaulMcCartney got the ping too! :)

6:36 PM
Sorry @PauloCereda :)
@PaulGessler Thanks, I think that will be good enough for most practical purposes!

@PauloCereda indeed!

This is what I needed.

@Szabolcs <3

@Szabolcs I would really recommend going the other way :) Get your unannotated graphics to pgfplots and let it place it for you.
with axes and whatnot

@percusse How would I make sure everything gets put in the correct place then without a lot of manual fussing with coordinates? I haven't use pgfplots so I'm not exactly sure how it goes. Maybe it's not as painful as I imagine to use a figure generated with something else and add stuff on top with pgfplots ...

6:44 PM
@Szabolcs It is actually easier than you might think provided that you save the mathematica figure without any axes etc. In the manual it is pretty straightforward with examples. Search for Using External Graphics as Plot Sources
Section 4.3.7

looking

This creates the graphics and types DEPTH:<value in pt> in the terminal and in the log file. You can then parse the value from the log and use it. It's the depth of the box (i.e., how far below the baseline it goes). Remember that the pt used here is 1in = 72.27pt
\documentclass[crop]{standalone}

\begin{document}

\newbox\mybox
\setbox\mybox\hbox{$\displaystyle A=\frac{B}{C}$}%
\typeout{DEPTH:\the\dp\mybox}%
\unhbox\mybox

\end{document}

Good point about the pt size, that difference has bitten me before.

standalone could actually offer this feature, and it would make a reasonable feature request I think. It's like 2 lines of code in the package to put there the message.

I will need to go in a couple of minutes, unfortunately, but I'm going to play with this a bit later. Thanks for the help @yo' !

6:47 PM
@Szabolcs you're welcome

@GonzaloMedina It depends on how the command is defined. Since \item actually has no argument, …
% latex.ltx, line 4455:
\def\item{%
\@inmatherr\item
\@ifnextchar [\@item{\@noitemargtrue \@item[\@itemlabel]}}
@GonzaloMedina Note that \LetLtxMacro is needed only for macros defined with \DeclareRobustCommand or with \newcommand and taking an optional argument.

7:09 PM
@egreg Ah, of course. Thanks.

7:22 PM
If hyperref makes text green or red, is the text black in print, or does it remain coloured?

@yo' -- if you have a color printer, it will almost certainly remain colored. if your printer is black/white only, then it's likely that the text colored by hyperref will be in shades of gray.

@barbarabeeton 50?

@DavidCarlisle -- guess it depends on how many colors you're using.

@DavidCarlisle o.O
@David: clearly @barbara is referring to Pink Floyd's A great day for freedom: Now frontiers shift like desert sands / while nations wash their bloodied hands / of loyalty, of history, in shades of grey
:)

@barbarabeeton but the "ugly borders" disappear...

7:35 PM
@yo' -- i guess they just wish to remain anonymous.

@barbarabeeton now I lost you. I suppose that was a joke?

@yo' -- another quote from ebenezer scrooge.

@barbarabeeton ah ok. Well, I like the story, but I know it in Czech of course... both the TV versions are really good: the played and the animated.

seriously, hyperref has some good option settings for doing reasonable things with links in print. i just don't use them every day, and would have to look them up.

I didn't see there an option for this. I know that by default the borders disappear, but the text colours persist.

7:42 PM
@yo' -- the context is from the scene where the solicitors come around asking for contributions for a fund to aid the poor in the dark, cold season of winter. scrooge declines to add his name, and one of the solicitors says, "then you wish to remain anonymous?"

\RequirePackage[
citecolor={araracolour},
urlcolor={araracolour},
pdfpagelabels
]{hyperref}
@yo': ^^ from my manual.

@PauloCereda so you set linkcolor=black...

@yo' Yep. :)

@yo' -- if @paulo's hint doesn't help, i'll try to look it up, but first i have to find some information in the tikz manual on how to divine the numbers to be given with a \clip directive.

7:53 PM
@DavidCarlisle that makes the border. I would like the text to be red on screen and black on print

@barbarabeeton this one must be your fault (excellent MWE in the question:-)
0

Running xelatex on the file \documentclass{article} \usepackage{amsmath} \usepackage{blkarray} \begin{document} \begin{blockarray}{c} 1 \end{blockarray} \end{document} gives the error (/usr/local/texlive/2014/texmf-dist/tex/latex/blkarray/blkarray.sty) (./test.aux) ! Incompatible list can...

hi; Is there a way to quantify the quality of pdf file generated by pdflatex or lualatex on different systems? I am trying to see which system produces "better" pdf, but do not know other by looking at them to guess.

@Nasser the operating system won't make any difference (except with luatex if you are using system fonts they may be different fonts)

@DavidCarlisle I see. thanks.

@Nasser almost always tex just uses integer arithmetic to avoid any system differences it is allowed to use floating point in a few limited cases but always very localised (results of floating point glue stretch calculations are never accessible to tex macros for example)

8:08 PM
Guys, I'm seriously thinking on moving the arara localization to a proper service, so we can have a cleaner workflow.

@DavidCarlisle humm. using integer arithmetic would be very slow compare to floating points, but latex is pretty fast. So it must be doing something very smart to be able to do this.

@Nasser integer arithmetic is fast, it doesn't need to emulate floating point in integer it just works in integer that's why the basic unit is scaled point sp. all calculations are integer values in sp. But anyway the author of Tex does know something about optimising that kind of algorithm.

@DavidCarlisle LOL :)

8:25 PM
@PauloCereda what? (sorry I'm a computer project layman, my top so far is a 1000-liner game and 2 latex classes)

@yo' There are online opensource services which offer an environment for translations, so translators can log in and translate messages without the need of being computer-savvy. :)

@PauloCereda ah cool :)
@DavidCarlisle Tell me, should I use \'\i or \'i?

@DavidCarlisle -- oh, what a mess! i disclaim any involvement in this. both packages, amsmath and blkarray use box0 all over the place! and to be really obnoxious, they define that box in different ways: amsmath (actually, amsgen.sty) has \def\boxz@{\box\z@} and blkarray (which is dreadfully hard to read!) has \chardef\BA@first@box=0. (i don't know which of you was more obscure, you or michael downes.) i think any attempt to clean this up is beyond my pitiful intellect.
so what shall we tell the person who asked the embarrassing question?

@yo' It's the same. The latter avoids the space problem with \i

@egreg in all fontenc and inputenc?

8:36 PM
@yo' inputenc has no role here. With OT1 and T1 the composites \i, \'i, \"i, \^i are defined. I'll check in LY1.

@barbarabeeton I posted an answer;-)

@yo' Here's from ly1enc.def
\DeclareTextComposite{\}{LY1}{i}           {236}
\DeclareTextComposite{\}{LY1}{\i}          {236}% again
\DeclareTextComposite{\'}{LY1}{i}           {237}
\DeclareTextComposite{\'}{LY1}{\i}          {237}% again
\DeclareTextComposite{\^}{LY1}{i}           {238}
\DeclareTextComposite{\^}{LY1}{\i}          {238}% again
\DeclareTextComposite{\"}{LY1}{i}           {239}
\DeclareTextComposite{\"}{LY1}{\i}          {239}% again

@egreg brilliant bit of tex coding that, don't you think?

@DavidCarlisle I enjoyed describing it in my book.

@egreg what in the world is LY1?

8:39 PM
@egreg did you describe blkarray as well?

@DavidCarlisle Too buggy.

@yo' the texnansi encoding from T&Y tex

@DavidCarlisle .... I don't have to care about it if I do \usepackage{lmodern}\usepackage[T1]{fontenc}?

@egreg not buggy, just documented as HIGHLY VOLATILE, use at your own risk!!!!!!!!
@yo' No but you would if you changed T1 to LY1 (which people seem to do, not sure why really, it was mainly for Y&Y (which did not support virtual fonts)

@DavidCarlisle good. :-)
There is always something that catches me unprepared. For instance I still don't know why a \vbox to \textheight{...} doesn't fit in the page. Or, I really didn't get the way how \begin{theindex} inserts the chapter title.
:20273201 well, \enlargethispage, but it's an ugly hack (and works only on pages with no foot)

8:46 PM
@yo' they should fit:
\documentclass{article}

%\showoutput

\begin{document}

\vbox to \textheight{\vss}

\vbox to \textheight{\vss}

\end{document}

@yo' It does
\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{showframe}
\begin{document}

\vbox to \textheight{\hbox{abc}\vfill\hbox{def}}

Some text after

\end{document}

@DavidCarlisle -- thank you, oh rabble rouser.

@barbarabeeton I was looking at the code just now, didn't recognise any of it, basically I just ran diff on the tracingall output with and without amsmath to find the clash. I wrote that thing over a couple of weekends 20 years ago and hardly looked inside the source since.

@DavidCarlisle Reminds me of texwelt.de/wissen/fragen/9724/… :-)

Good maen... and no Imperial march when I enter the chat ... disappointing... :-(

8:55 PM
@Johannes_B too much German there, did that get resolved?

@egreg @Dav ok, then it's because of the tabularx that's around it.

@DavidCarlisle Yeah, you provided a fix. code.google.com/p/dpctex/source/detail?r=93

@Johannes_B wow so i did. hang on that fix might work for this one too let me try. Seems like I didn't push it to ctan though?
@Johannes_B nope. OK I suppose I could fix both and push it to ctan.

@DavidCarlisle Oh rabble rouser, you made me laugh once again.
@DavidCarlisle Sounds good :-)

@Johannes_B It's a shame @egreg didn't document the code in his book though. I have no idea what half of it's doing.

9:03 PM
@DavidCarlisle Which book?

@DavidCarlisle: Nobody understands @egreg's solutions... they work, but are incomprehensible :-P

@yo' you probably did the first instead of the second, serves you right for using vbox in latex:-)
\documentclass{article}

%\showoutput

\begin{document}

\begin{tabular}{p{1cm}}\vbox to \textheight{\vss}\end{tabular}

\begin{tabular}{p{1cm}}\mbox{}\vbox to \textheight{\vss}\end{tabular}

\end{document}

@DavidCarlisle it was the easiest way how to make something span the whole page and have a blue vrule next to it ;)

28 mins ago, by egreg
@DavidCarlisle I enjoyed describing it in my book.
@yo' but a tabular p adds a strut to the paragraph but \vbox without \leavevmode doesn't start a paragraph so you get a dangling strut in addition (vertically) to the cell content. with \mbox/leavevmode the strut is horizontally adjacent to the vbox

@DavidCarlisle so you tell me that I was just stupid enough not to try \leavevmode?!

9:12 PM
@yo' not quite the wording I used:-)

@DavidCarlisle it's the wording I use on myself :-)

@yo' Why a tabular?
\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{color}

\begin{document}
\begin{titlepage}

\vbox to\textheight{
\hsize=\dimexpr\textwidth-3cm\relax
Whatever

\vfill

you want
}
\end{titlepage}

@egreg nice :-)
@egr and now last thing: if I want to start earlier on the page, I can use \vspace*{-6pt}, but it seems to add \baselineskip

@yo' Not in my experiment.

This jumps to second page:
\documentclass{article}

\begin{document}

\vspace*{0pt}

{\vrule width 1cm\quad}\vbox to \textheight{Bla\par\vfill Bla}

\end{document}

9:26 PM
@yo' Well, something of that kind is expected.
@yo' For a title page, use \newgeometry.

@egreg that one is already causing some disasters. Better than that is even \begin{picture}(0,0)

@yo' You're looking for disgrace, I think. ;-)
2

@egreg why do you think so?

@yo' :)
@yo' The easiest way I know for doing a title page without worries is to make it in a different file and pasting it with pdfpages (or similar device).

@egreg not if it's a class

9:35 PM
@yo' All my students use frontespizio, of course. ;-)

@egreg well, we've got an OPmac template by @wipet, but students seem to prefer LaTeX :-)

9:47 PM
@DavidCarlisle Too buggy? What a shame :-)

@Johannes_B s/ shame/n insult/

@DavidCarlisle Ah, you are friends, no insult intended, i believe? I bet @egreg can approve? :-)

@yo' I'd do a titlepage inside a minipage then whatever else happens it won't split
@Johannes_B it wasn't you that said "buggy"

@DavidCarlisle I think I'm fine now.

@DavidCarlisle Shame on @egreg for calling your code buggy, then.

9:56 PM
@Johannes_B quite

@egreg People like articles it seems.
\newpage
\setcounter{section}{1}
\renewcommand\refname{Chapter 1}
\section*{{\Large Chapter 1}}
\markright{Chapter 1}
\phantomsection
%\addtocontents{toc}{\vspace{-0.5em}}%????
@DavidCarlisle @PauloCereda Any of you got a spare upvote? I'd like to take that to chat.
3

The solution of LOF+LOT+BIB in TOC with numbered chapter does not work in my case. Admittedly I used a template of some other person - when I produce a Pdf with his code all above mentioned sections are numbered. However, when I produce the Pdf of my code, these sections remain unnumbered - whic...

@Johannes_B done, and I commented there as well.

@yo' Thank you. :-)

10:17 PM
So you have been discussing the format before. Hello.

Anybody interested can join and give advice :-)

11:09 PM
Hey guys, quick question. I am using R to create graphs that are converted to Tikz using TikzDevice. My question is that should I use R to create the title/caption

11:36 PM

@masfenix Example? And this might be an R programming question.

11:54 PM
I gotta go, see you tomorrow, all! :)
@barbarabeeton "lurking" is fine, I know that one. But I've never heard "wont" before I think.
@Werner divisible by 7, 11 and 13 :)

@FaheemMitha Its not really R related. I am looking for best practices.
I can add the title/caption in using R tools. At the same time I can add the title/caption in figure environment.

@masfenix A MWE is desirable, regardless. If it is on-topic on tex.sx, post it there then.
@masfenix Oh, I see. I think that comes down to personal preference.

I guess the benefit of adding the title in R is that I can use the plot in other non-latex systems such as Powerpoint.

It's important to make sure the fonts match up, but I guess they would either way.
I've actually used tikzdevice. I don't know how many others here have.

well because of TiksDevice, the output from ggplot in R is converted to a tikz diagram
and therefore uses the latex fonts which is very nice.

11:59 PM
@masfenix it really depends on your goal. Also, I don't know if you can make the proper figure numbering if you export from R. I've never been fan of that thingy

Right. So?

Anyways, its like you said.. personal preference.