The Skunk Works

Air

00:00

Now there's one that I do like having

jhabbott

That's good - so are you guys now mods?

Air

Sure are. A whole new wooooorld ♫♪

A new confusing set of tools

Sam Weston

Congrats guys, Couldn't think of three better people to moderate the site

jhabbott

Can you edit tag synonyms without having to have a min-score within the tag?

There's lots of work to be done there :D

I think I'm the only person who created one so far :/

It's probably for the best because clearly I don't understand tags properly from a community building and keeping things clean point of view :D

Air

@jhabbott Probably? I'm not sure.

jhabbott

00:10

let's see...
structural-engineering <- structures; structural
crushing <- crushers
measurements <- metrology

The interface for creating tag synonyms is quite confusing actually.

well I found it that way at least :P

Tags seem to be a nightmare to manage - there's too many valid ways to do it and too many exceptions to break any conventions you try to make.

Air

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I don't want to jump right into synonyms before talking with the rest of the new super unicorn team.

Speaking of which, hi @Trevor.

Trevor Archibald

Hi

And yeah, I think cleaning up tags is definitely something we should look at

There are 3 full pages of tags that are only used once

HDE 226868

@Air @GlenH7 @TrevorArchibald Congrats, guys!

Trevor Archibald

Thanks

jhabbott

with synonyms, if an asker starts typing 'synonym' will it suggest the real tag even if there's no textual match?

Air

00:22

I think what happens is that it lets them choose the tag and then substitutes the synonym.

user41796

Okay, I'm new to this blue thing. It seems weird to be able to still "flag for moderator attention" .... :-P

jhabbott

ahh ok

Air

@GlenH7 With custom reason: "Glen please take care of this I'm too tired" :P

user41796

@jhabbott I can go check on Progs as we have a few synonyms in place. I'll tell you what it looks like

HDE 226868

The tag changes have gotten rid of some cool tags, including the friday-iceland tag on Meta.

Trevor Archibald

00:22

Hahaha I was thinking the same thing

"I'm lazy, you do this for me"

user41796

@Air We have a running joke on the Whiteboard that all SO messages have to be flagged with "Leave this for RobertHarvey"

Trevor Archibald

@jhabbott meta.stackexchange.com/questions/70710/…

HDE 226868

@Air You haven't turned blue yet.

Air

@HDE226868 Nope. Nor gotten lounge access. Blame caching, most likely.

jhabbott

mod ping pong... or grenade-toss :D

Trevor Archibald

00:25

@Air Have you accepted the agreement?

jhabbott

@HDE226868 you're blue - are you a mode too?

-e

HDE 226868

@jhabbott I'm pro-tem on HSM, with Danu and LoganM.

user41796

Man, the system is picky about writing a test question....

Air

@TrevorArchibald Yeah, twice (main/meta), it's probably because I had to change the account associated with chat, and changes take a while to show up

user41796

Anyway - it lets you pick the synonym, but when it posts the question it retags as the "master" tag

Trevor Archibald

00:26

Yeah, same here, and mine was still showing up weird for a bit even though I've got access

user41796

programmers.stackexchange.com/tags/synonyms

jhabbott

@HDE226868 so you're blue in all chats, even for sites where not a mod?

HDE 226868

By the way, one of the bad things about being a mod in chat is that when a message is flagged in any room, every mod gets a notification, and there's a flood into that room.

user41796

@Air ditto

HDE 226868

@jhabbott Yep.

user41796

00:27

@jhabbott correct; chat doesn't care about what site you're a mod on

Air

Actually, I think chat might care, if you set it to a different parent account

user41796

@HDE226868 10k+ get a similar notification (looking at you The Bridge...)

Trevor Archibald

Interesting. I feel like the flag notification should say "[x] mods currently in room"

HDE 226868

@GlenH7 Interesting.

user41796

Yeah, I find them amusing to look at every now and then

user41796

00:29

Saw one against a high rep user who happened to say something that was considered heretical in a particular room. I laughed and marked it invalid

Air

Do we need to create a private chat room for the pro tems?

HDE 226868

@Air You'll get that made for you.

user41796

@air - feel free to ping me with questions about tools. I've used a lot of them from 10k access and will happily explain what I know

HDE 226868

I think Robert or Abby will make it. Whichever cm is most involved on the site.

Air

Separate from TL?

HDE 226868

00:31

@Air Yep.

Air

Cool beans. I should check my sourdough.

HDE 226868

Oh, by the way, the top rep guy is almost never a mod on the site. So GlenH7, you're doooooomed.

user41796

@jhabbott has already pulled into the lead quite handily anyway

Air

Okay, I have dad stuff to do for the rest of this evening. I'll have to check out the diamond another day.

HDE 226868

@Air Enjoy. . .

jhabbott

00:35

@GlenH7 you'll soon overtake me - I ran out of knowledge and question ideas ages ago :D

user41796

@jhabbott - does it look to you like your suggested synonym of road -> highway-enginering has gone through?

jhabbott

@GlenH7 yeah - it's a bona fide synonym as far as I can tell

I wanted to create a few others but didn't have score within the tag to do it

When I proposed it I think a few people needed to vote (4 according to that meta question @TrevorArchibald posted above) before it was approved. The voters also need a score in the tag.

user41796

right

user41796

tag synonyms are a complicated beastie

user41796

but roads should be gone now

jhabbott

00:38

so at the moment it's very stagnant, but once we have quite a few 1250+ rep people with scores in different tags, and they can go propose them, then the community can take care of it... until then you guys are gonna have to do all the leg-work :/

user41796

@jhabbott that's what the janitors are for...

Trevor Archibald

@GlenH7 So are you saying that, where we're going (with this SE), we don't need roads?

jhabbott

Haha, brilliant @TrevorArchibald

user41796

@TrevorArchibald I much prefer the expressway....

user41796

And I think we'd be better off with tags that more clearly stated the difference in the domain they were asking about

jhabbott

00:41

@GlenH7 roads is still there, but it doesn't have a x3 after it (even though it's used in 3 questions, which you can tell on hover). Synonyms still appear in the tags list but at the end (as if they have x0).

I think anyway

user41796

If you're looking in the tags view, empty tags take a little while to disappear from the site. Since it's a synonym, it may be there "forever." And if I really messed up that tag for future use, then I'll figure out what needs to be done to fix it.

jhabbott

go to Tags, go to the last page, there it is at the end, hover = 3 questions, hover the one before = 1 question.

Trevor Archibald

I think synonyms do stick around, so that they can still be used, they just show up as the master on the actual question and when searching

jhabbott

well when the synonym was created, it doesn't go through existing questions and re-tag them, so it's still there. But if those questions are edited (or if a mod does a 'merge' whatever that is) then those questions will be re-tagged with the master tag

also, what @TrevorArchibald said

user41796

I thought I merged with road, maybe I didn't do that correctly.

user41796

00:44

I need to drop for a bit; will be back on later.

HDE 226868

It seems to be working for me.

jhabbott

@GlenH7 I think whatever you did worked as I just got a 'Synonymizer' badge - I guess it wasn't approved before (but probably i saw it since I created it, as with edits before you have enough rep to edit without needing approval)

New rule: The mod who makes the most BTTF refs wins.

Let's face it - Doc Brown is the ultimate engineer!

Trevor Archibald

So I'm in the lead, right?

Trevor Archibald

01:16

Woo I have a new icon

Now lets see how long it takes to propagate through everywhere

hazzey

02:58

Is architecture within our scope?

Trevor Archibald

Depends on what perspective I'd say. Artistically, probably not. Structurally or functionally, perhaps.

Do you have an example?

hazzey

Not really any questions, just a thinking.

Trevor Archibald

I could see a question along the line of "I saw this feature on a building, does it have a functional use, or is it purely decorative?" being potentially within scope

hazzey

It just happens to be one of the few areas that would actually be within our scope, but doesn't use the word "engineering"

Ethan48

@TrevorArchibald Yes, or also questions about structural options or compliance with accessibility codes or the like. But probably not about design aesthetics.

@hazzey I think there are actually lots of areas like that

hazzey

03:06

@Ethan48 With how easily the word "engineer" is thrown around, I'm not sure ;)

Trevor Archibald

Isn't that the opposite case though?

Subjects with engineering in the title that aren't actually engineering? (E.g. social engineering)

hazzey

It is.

That was exactly the example that I was thinking about.

Ethan48

@hazzey I did a little whining about that the other day. I don't think that people policing use of the word engineer is very useful at all.

Trevor Archibald

Not directly, but when we get questions like the social engineering one from today, I think those are going to end up being closed by the community. And I'm sure we'll find other similar but distinct subjects.

Ethan48

@TrevorArchibald Definitely, I voted to close that question, but I don't think the root problem is that people who are into social engineering call it engineering

Trevor Archibald

03:10

True, though applying the term engineer I think does make the confusion easier.

hazzey

It will just be hard to build a definition as to what is "engineering" until we have some history.

That should slowly build though.

Ethan48

@hazzey Agreed, and our definition of engineering as we set the cope of this site will be different from the dictionary or legal definitions

I just repeatedly see long, whiney posts on other engineering communities about how someone without a PE license is calling them self an engineer (not fraudulently, but like a sanitation engineer) and I hope we don't devolve into those kind of discussions.

Trevor Archibald

Yeah, I don't think this is the place for that, and any definition of engineering that we develop will be purely based on what our scope comes to be.

hazzey

I hope not too. Those aren't productive. Maybe we need to preemptively create a topic on that.

So that we can refer people there once the whining starts.

Ethan48

@hazzey Well, if the three of us agree, and the problem hasn't come up, maybe we're OK

hazzey

03:17

That is VERY optimistic of you....

: )

Ethan48

@hazzey Are you suggesting a sample size of 3 does not describe the whole site?

hazzey

Actually, we have a moderator on our side, so it just might work.

Trevor Archibald

And my axe of power swings wide and swiftly. Which as we engineers know, means a lot of force, with a large moment arm and high energy.

3

Air

04:05

@hazzey Ask this one on Meta. I think it's on topic, and I don't think it'll be that controversial, but the discussion will be a good signpost for people anyway

@TrevorArchibald In my frame of reference, your axe is motionless :P

Sam Weston

@hazzey As the saying goes, mechanical engineers build weapons, civil engineers build targets

3

hazzey

@SamWeston I have always liked that phrase

@Air I will post the question to meta.

Sam Weston

@Ethan48 I think that might be like the german mentality though, like over there "engineer" is a protected title, like "doctor"

hazzey

@SamWeston Isn't that the case with most states in the US also?

Sam Weston

04:20

@hazzey I dunno, I'm australian

I will not work in imperical units :I

Ethan48

@SamWeston Yeah, it is here too when applied to 'real' engineering. Professional engineers are regulated much like doctors. But the word sometimes gets used for unregulated activity as well

Sam Weston

@Ethan48 Where's here? USA?

Ethan48

@SamWeston Sorry, yes.

hazzey

@SamWeston What?! Not everyone here is American? Next you are going to tell me that this internet is world wide!

Air

I know very little about the area of controls; does this question really need an EE tag? It seems superfluous to me.

Sam Weston

04:24

@hazzey Yeah and I hear some of those people use metric, what weird outliers those guys are

Ethan48

@hazzey I think you're confused. There is one separate internet for every city - my old friends told me that was why we couldn't talk any more after I moved....

Air

Listen, maybe it's the barleywine, but I want to pat us on the back a little. Some of our questions are rock solid. Thanks for making us new mods look good without even trying, people.

Ethan48

@Air no, I don't think it needs the tag

Stack Exchange

0

Q: Is architecture in our scope?

I can see one side of Architecture being in our scope, but the art side not being in our scope. There will likely be some combining of the two. I don't know enough about the day to day activities or interests of architects to know if they will be drawn here though.

discussion

Sam Weston

@StackExchange Yeah I kinda doubt it still. Civil engineering for sure but the architects I've known have usually taken the approach of "design and let the engineers fix it" but maybe that's just the mentality in large scale projects

hazzey

04:43

@SamWeston In school, I had a fair amount of architects in my engineering classes, so they at least have some requirement.

Sam Weston

I'm trying to post a question but I can't find a related tag and don't have the rep to create a new one

it's about maglev systems

I wanted to put future-technologies or transport down

checking through the tags, there's both Aluminium and Aluminum, I'm making a meta post on that

Air

@SamWeston sounds like you could post it in the civil tag, and let us figure out any additional tags

Sam Weston

@Air I put it under research

Stack Exchange

0

Q: Aluminium or Aluminum?

I noticed today that both the tags "Aluminium" and "Aluminum" are used on this site. It is somewhat debatable in my mind if a material even needs a tag, but regardless of that, which format should this site adopt?

bug tags

Air

05:18

research seems like a meta-tag to me.

@SamWeston Can you refocus your maglev question more on the present and engineering, and less on the future and speculation?

Wikipedia's list of maglev train proposals would be a great addition,

HDE 226868

14:44

@Air I'm not a fan of research either. I was thinking of writing up a meta post on it.

user41796

15:36

@HDE226868 please do

user41796

@SamWeston - how would you feel about revising the maglev question to focusing on "technical issues that are preventing wider adoption of maglev transportation"? It's still a bit broad, but moves the question out of the subjective opinion realm into something more answerable.

user41796

ie. "It's not further adopted because electricity is too expensive" or "parts are too frail and break in the cold"

HDE 226868

15:54

On hold:

-2

Q: Could mag-lev transportation systems be a common place technology

Magnetic levitation systems of transportation such as trains seem to be common place in early 2000's science fiction, and while some systems exist currently, they aren't exactly common. It seems to me that this technology has grown unpopular (or at least has fallen into obscurity) in recent year...

mechanical-engineering civil-engineering research

Voila!

0

Q: Do we need the "research" tag?

What's the point of the research tag? Quoting Air in chat, research seems like a meta-tag to me. It doesn't describe the questions; it merely gives a bit of (unnecessary) context. Furthermore, out of the three questions that use it, two are on hold and have been downvoted, though I don't t...

discussion tags

By the way, does anyone want to revisit naming the chat room?

user41796

@HDE226868 Still too soon?

user41796

Said the person who wanted to rename it during the private beta...

HDE 226868

@GlenH7 I'm not sure.

Stack Exchange

1

Q: Do we need the "research" tag?

What's the point of the research tag? Quoting Air in chat, research seems like a meta-tag to me. It doesn't describe the questions; it merely gives a bit of (unnecessary) context. Furthermore, out of the three questions that use it, two are on hold and have been downvoted, though I don't t...

discussion tags

user41796

16:10

It would be good to see more folk dropping comments of "let's continue this in chat" to help drive up our room traffic and participation

HDE 226868

True.

user41796

I'm going to have to learn how to use the room feed ticker within chat better. I'm used to being in just one room, and now I'm in 4. Discombobulating... :-)

Air

17:17

@HDE Rolled back your edit for the sake of keeping something "answery" out of the question.

Presents a better chronology for the reader this way, I think

HDE 226868

17:32

@Air I'm fine with it.

Air

20:45

@GlenH7 Clearly we need to rename this room "Moderately Engineery" to make things easier for you

user41796

Oh no you don't! I'm struggling as it is having multiple chat windows open. I used to have just one open... <sighs>

Trevor Archibald

You know you can switch pretty effectively using the "other rooms you're in" list on the right, right?

user41796

But Moderately Engineering Related could work as a new room name

user41796

@TrevorArchibald I do, but I prefer keeping a number of tabs open. I tend to track the chatter history that goes on in the whiteboard, so having separate tabs makes that easier

Air

The Drafting Table?

Reflects the less polished conversation that takes place here than on main/meta

Though I don't know how many of us use them anymore

user41796

20:58

Sketch Pad?

user41796

Drafting Table is a bit more clear of a reference though

Air

Not Rocket Science?

the 200% Safety Factor

user41796

But what will the aero's say? :-P

Air

MacGyver Temple

Oh, now I know why my workstation was frozen for half an hour this morning. Frigging invisible antivirus definitions update.

user41796

Awesome. And that's why the disk activity light is still glowing brightly.

Ethan48

21:40

@Air I know you think that's a joke, but some of us work to a 1000% safety factor

@Air How about 'The Drawing Board?' (As in 'back to the...')

user41796

The Drawing Board has a good ring to it

Air

22:02

@Ethan48 Oh, come on. What's a little BLEVE between friends?

Ethan48

@Air Where I come from we pronounce BLEVE as "A Good Time."

user41796

22:20

I just googled that; wow, that was a cool explosion

user41796

23:00

I have edited this question in an attempt to make it more constructive. As fun as a close / re-open war between mods would be (just kidding), I'd like the community to weigh in with either re-open votes or flags indicating that the question should be re-opened. — GlenH7 ♦ 41 secs ago

user41796

^^^ go vote please. :-)

Air

Point of order: There are only 11 non-diamond users with reopen vote privileges at present.

Ethan48

@GlenH7 It still doesn't seem to me like there is a right and wrong answer. I fear that questions like that will lead to slightly-informed speculation, which is a big turn-off for many practicing engineers (who we still want to attract.)

user41796

That's a very valid point. Can you think of a way to help tighten the question some more then? ie. how do we work around that?

user41796

Despite my "notoriety" on Programmers for voting to close :-), I'd much rather we try to edit and make questions constructive here.

Air

23:37

Might be better off drumming up new questions than spending a lot of time trying to smash square pegs into round holes.

Air

23:56

@GlenH7 This question of yours could use some retagging; I've been removing "design" where it's meta-tasty, and "faraday" needs reconsideration. Unfortunately, "electromagnetic-interference" exceeds the 25 character limit. We could go with "faraday-cage" if you think there will be more questions that utilize it.

So far this is the only question where I'm considering leaving "design"

Transcript for