The Bridge

Unionhawk

15:00

my head hurts

too much metabridge

Arperum

ok, finnish radio became even weirder. It doesn't stop the weird. The music is good though.

Unionhawk

@Arperum Blame @3ventic

Arperum

@Unionhawk Sounds like a plan.

badp

@Arperum call them and ask about bridges

Arperum

@3ventic I am hereby officially sending a bucket of blame your way for some finnish radio station sounding weird while there is no music playing.

@badp My finnish is way too bad for that. I don't understand a word of what they say.

5pike

15:03

@Arperum So, you are blaming @3ventic because you don't understand Finnish?

badp

@Arperum hilariously bad accents will only help

5pike

...

3ventic

Why are you listening to Finnish radio?

Frank

@Wipqozn Nah. I'll just charge them for 4.5 hours of banked time.

badp

@5pike :o you monster!

Arperum

15:04

Although I think I figured out that one ad is for Far Cry 4 on the PS4

@5pike Yup!

5pike

@Arperum Right, carry on then.

Frank

Which gives a comfortable five weeks of banked time accrued.

Arperum

@3ventic Because the music is good. And they are supposed to play a new song from Battle Beast at some point n time.

5pike

If you like trains, this bundle might interest you

4

Lazers

0

Q: How are your end game scores calculated?

At the end of the game in Age of Empires 2, you receive multiple scores in different categories. How are these calculated? In some cases I had much lower scores than the computer players but I destroyed them. What does each category mean, and how are they calculated?

age-of-empires-2

1

Q: How do Fragtrap's Subroutines work?

One of Fragtrap's skill trees, Fragmented Fragtrap, focuses on some Subroutines that give bonuses and penalties to different weapons. How do Subroutines work, what are Frag Stacks, and how bad is Tripleclocked?

borderlands-pre-sequel

5pike

15:07

Seems like at least 1 person likes trains.

Wipqozn

@5pike I was really worried this was going to be a Rebecca black video

Jason Berkan

I love trains, but I didn't star it.

Wipqozn

Today is my last day of work before vacation, so it feels like a friday

Unionhawk

HOLY CRAP IT'S THE LAST WEEK OF CLASSES (well, last week before real thanksgiving, so last week of classes) AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Kevin van der Velden

@5pike Holy fuck that's a lot of trains.

5pike

15:09

@KevinvanderVelden Yarb

Wipqozn

@Unionhawk Not being in school rocks.

Unionhawk

inb4 one of you Canadians is offended at "real thanksgiving"

5pike

@Wipqozn Oh, be quit. I have to go to trade school on the 1st of December... This is going to be boring...

and cold

Wipqozn

@5pike That does sound boring.

5pike

@Wipqozn Yeah, it pretty much is. The internet there also sucks.

fredley

15:11

@5pike Lol, I love how they're all basically the same apart from Train Town

Arperum

@5pike TRAIN OVERFLOW.

Private Pansy

Huh, there's a hair dye in Terraria that makes your hair spawn confetti constantly

Unionhawk

ONLY A LITTLE BIT UNTIL ICE CREAM AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAa

Arperum

@PrivatePansy Lolwut?

Kevin van der Velden

@PrivatePansy niiice

Arperum

15:13

Seems like I need to play that game again.

Origami Robot

TIL Thanksgiving is an optional holiday for @Wipqozn

Nova Scotia sounds like a monstrous place.

Unionhawk

@ori they celebrate fake Thanksgiving early in the month, remember?

Wipqozn

It is? I didn't realize that.

I've always been given thanksgiving off.

Kevin van der Velden

@OrigamiRobot it's not even that around here

I want a day off =[

Wipqozn

@Unionhawk Oh, is that what @OrigamiRobot meant?

Origami Robot

15:15

@Wipqozn No

Frank

@Unionhawk We celebrated Thanksgiving last month, thank you.

Origami Robot

> Thanksgiving is a statutory holiday in most jurisdictions of Canada, with the exceptions being the Atlantic provinces of Prince Edward Island, Newfoundland and Labrador, New Brunswick, and Nova Scotia, where it is an optional holiday.

Wipqozn

TIL

okay, I'm off

be back at some point

Unionhawk

I was completely wrong, which is totally normal!

7

Origami Robot

I imagine Canadian Thanksgiving is earlier because it's colder up there, no?

> Though the holiday enjoys statutory status in Quebec, French-speaking Quebeckers do not typically consider it an important holiday and think of it as simply a day off, like Labour Day

wat

Lazers

15:19

-1

Q: When is the last character wipe before official release?

I recently started playing Elite: Dangerous and have learned there will be a full (?) character wipe soon (November 22nd IIRC), so for this reason I've been holding back my urge to play it for the last couple of weeks. 1) Is the aforementioned wipe going to be the last one before official releas...

elite-dangerous

Jason Berkan

@OrigamiRobot Quebec is weird. They have a semi-official moving day: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_Day_(Quebec)

Chippies

Elite: Dangerous refund policy detailed after offline support dropped

cc: @Frank

Trent Hawkins

@OrigamiRobot More or less - It's a harvest feast, and the climate dictates harvesting earlier.

Frank

> "We have started responding to requests where there is a clear outcome," Braben says. "Those who have pre-ordered an Elite: Dangerous release version from our online store and have therefore not yet played the game are eligible for a refund.

"Those who have already been playing the game online in the Alpha and/or Beta phases, regardless of whether they backed the project via Kickstarter or purchased access to Alpha and/or Beta through our online store, are not eligible for a refund."

Absolute shit.

Chippies

@OrigamiRobot I don't think Europeans really celebrate thanksgiving and French-speaking Quebeckers are technically french, aka europeans

Origami Robot

15:22

@TrentHawkins RIght

Chippies

@Frank how so?

Frank

@Chippies Kickstarter backers should get refunds, if they laid out the cash for alpha or beta access.

Chippies

everyone that played the alpha/beta/whatever played it online and didn't care about it being online

Frank

@Chippies They played it online because that's what they got, not what they wanted. They had a good faith assumption that offline was coming.

Chippies

@Frank if they didn't want to play it online then why did they?

Frank

15:24

Just means I won't ever back or buy any products from this studio.

Chippies

I don't wanna play online, but I'll play because maybe someday it will be offline?

Frank

@Chippies Probably to try out the product they had backed in the first place, and had every right to?

Private Pansy

Chippies

why just not apply the same logic to the full game?

Private Pansy

Look at my hair spawning confetti. It makes the Corruption so much more cheerful

Frank

15:25

@Chippies Because a game in development still has features under development.

One of which was the promised offline.

Chippies

how long as alpha/beta available?

weeks? months?

Frank

Not a clue.

Origami Robot

@Chippies Months

Frank

Didn't back it, and glad I didn't.

Chippies

that's a long time they could and probably did play the game

Unionhawk

15:25

Chippies

if they want a refund after playing for such a long time they're silly, imho

Origami Robot

18 hours ago, by Chippies

The kickstarter page of Elite Dangerous does not include the word "offline"

Kevin van der Velden

@Unionhawk so your quote about being wrong was wrong?

Unionhawk

A little bit yes

Kevin van der Velden

@Unionhawk, not just wrong, he's meta wrong!

Origami Robot

15:26

@Unionhawk Oh Claptrap, you so silly

Chippies

I am assuming the reddit AMA someone mentioned was most likely after the kickstarter had ended?

which means, everyone that backed the game, backed it on the assumption that there will be no offline mode

Unionhawk

Frank

@OrigamiRobot Based on the additional crap on there, I would not be surprised if it was edited out.

Unionhawk

That's still the best

Private Pansy

@OrigamiRobot It doesn't say anything about it being always online either

It does have this, though

> And the best part - you can do all this online with your friends, or other "Elite" pilots like yourself, or even alone. The choice is yours...

Batophobia

15:28

@Unionhawk no u

Origami Robot

I love how making a tiny change makes the devs pus-spewing lie-demons in Frank's eyes.

5

Unionhawk

@Batophobia Thanks!

@OrigamiRobot Right?

Origami Robot

@PrivatePansy Single player still exists.

Chippies

@PrivatePansy single player exists, but requires internet connection to update the giant universe

Unionhawk

And it's like a 10 kbps requirement

Frank

15:29

@OrigamiRobot Offline does not exist.

Chippies

and apparently the connection required is minimal, because they're not doing much

literally just keeping the universe alive

Frank

And that, right there, is what's wrong with gamers nowadays.

Chippies

@Frank wanting a better game?

Frank

"Pfft. Offline? Who the hell cares? It's not like you'd ever use it, anyways."

Unionhawk

Even @DwarfSlice probably has 10 kbps to spare

Frank

15:30

@Chippies No, diminishing the choice of having offline.

Origami Robot

@Frank I'm talking about your "they probably edited it out" comment.

Frank

@OrigamiRobot I said, I wouldn't be surprised.

I've read some comments that said they backed based on the promise of offline.

Origami Robot

Why?

LessPop_MoreFizz

►

Jason Berkan

Online / Offline ranks pretty near the bottom of things I care about in a video game.

Chippies

15:31

@Frank this isn't early 2000 where internet was a luxury for many

LessPop_MoreFizz

Old ladies smoke weed for the first time and play Cards Against Humanity.

Chippies

if you backed the game, you probably have an internet connection

Origami Robot

@Frank So your anger is based on hearsay?

Chippies

if having internet connection makes the game better, I'm all for it

Frank

@Chippies And? That means we shouldn't care at all that we can play the games we want when and where we want to?

Chippies

15:32

@Frank considering you will need a pretty beefy system, it's unlikely you will be playing it anywhere but home

Frank

@Chippies And that's your choice.

5pike

@LessPop_MoreFizz ... Sure, why the hell not?

Chippies

@Frank Indeed it is.

Frank

Belittling someone who wants to play it offline, though, because it's not what you would choose, is wrong.

Chippies

if I don't have internet access, I am more likely to go and do something else

like, go outside maybe even shrug

Jason Berkan

15:33

If I don't have Internet access, I probably am outside.

Origami Robot

oops, no one has cc'd @Sterno

Frank

Personally, I'd probably play it online, too.

Unionhawk

cc @Sterno

Frank

The point is that it should be a choice.

Chippies

@Frank I don't belittle, I just don't see the reason for such anger over it

@Frank it shouldn't, if it means making the game shittier for everyone

most people don't care about the offline mode as much as they care about the game being good

I am pretty sure more people backed the game on the promise that it's going to be a good game, not on the "promise" that there's gonna be an offline mode

Unionhawk

15:34

Yes, that

Chippies

if they can do both without affecting the game quality then by all means, great

but they can't

Unionhawk

(I've decided I suck at arguments, so I'm going to let @Chippies argue for me)

Chippies

@Unionhawk can't get good without practice, yo

Unionhawk

Meh

Chippies

look at how good @Frank has got! :P

Unionhawk

15:36

Wow I never realized how much power 10k really has. Or, feels like.

Frank

@Chippies And if they backed it on the promise of it being a good game and offline?

Why should their choice be, "Like it or lump it"?

You're downplaying their concerns.

Chippies

@Frank well, that sucks, but again - there is no mention of offline anything on the kickstarter page, so I don't understand where these "promises" are coming from

fredley

@Unionhawk Now imagine mod powers

Frank

@Chippies I'll see if I can find anything. If it turns out there was nothing anywhere from the devs, then I'll concede the point.

Kevin van der Velden

Also: kickstarter is not buying a game, kickstarter is helping to fund a games development. The liabilities and responsibilities are different

Chippies

15:37

I hardly even care about the game and never followed it, but I always had the notion that it's going to be an online game

DwarfSlice

@KevinvanderVelden this

Unionhawk

@fredley It's like the power of life or death over users, versus the power of voting for life or death over users.

Origami Robot

@KevinvanderVelden We tried covering that part yesterday.

Chippies

I never even had a thought that it could be an offline game with the promises they gave

fredley

@Unionhawk Pretty much

Unionhawk

15:38

Where "life or death" means "suspension or no"

Kevin van der Velden

And before you go on that again @Frank, yes they are liable. There have been lawsuits for this kind of stuff already and it's even called out in the kickstarter TOS for project creators

fredley

It's like the difference between being able to seed clouds, and casting thunderbolts directly.

Frank

There is the implication that if they're "officially" ditching the offline mode, then they promised it in the past.

Chippies

@Frank or maybe there was a possibility of an offline mode, not a promise

Batophobia

Bridge drama, best drama

Frank

15:40

@Chippies Like I said, I'm looking. But I kinda doubt there would be this much outrage (or reporting about it), if they hadn't promised it in the first place.

Rapitor

►

Batophobia

@Chippies Maybe it was a goal after they reached a certain amount?

Kevin van der Velden

@Frank you doubt there'd be outrage? Naah, there'd be outrage =p

The only difference would be in how long it'd last

Chippies

@Batophobia it's not on the kickstarter page

Frank

> this much outrage

Lazers

15:41

0

Q: Do I have to be a certain level to use my golden keys?

i have 23 key in the shift menu but the game says I have none do I have to be a certain level to use them

borderlands-pre-sequel

Unionhawk

@Chippies photoshop

Private Pansy

It's raining confetti, all because of my hair

Unionhawk

They photoshopped it out

Chippies

eurogamer.net/articles/…

I guess they have mentioned that there would be an offline mode at some point somewhere

Batophobia

Kevin van der Velden

15:42

@PrivatePansy Good job! Confetti and cake for everyone, you bring the cake

Arperum

When I look into your eyes, I see JPEG artifacts. I can tell by the pixels that we're wrong for each other.

Chippies

I don't think it was an actual "promise" though

> "Back during the Kickstarter, we were clear about the vision, to make a phenomenal new sequel to Elite in an online world, which we believe we are about to deliver. At the time we believed we could also offer a good single-player experience, and base an acceptable offline-only experience off that. As development has progressed, it has become clear that this last assumption is not the case."

Frank

> How will single player work? Will I need to connect to a server to play?

The galaxy for Elite: Dangerous is a shared universe maintained by a central server. All of the meta data for the galaxy is shared between players. This includes the galaxy itself as well as transient information like economies. The aim here is that a player's actions will influence the development of the galaxy, without necessarily having to play multiplayer.

The other important aspect for us is that we can seed the galaxy with events, often these events will be triggered by player actions. With a living breathing…

Straight from their FAQ

Chippies

@Frank FAQ where?

Frank

@Chippies On their Kickstarter page.

fredley

15:45

@Frank Anything written on a Kickstarter page should be treated with extreme suspicion

Frank

@fredley It's still the promise of offline.

Chippies

@Frank I see.

fredley

24 secs ago, by fredley

@Frank Anything written on a Kickstarter page should be treated with extreme suspicion

Unionhawk

18 hours ago, by Unionhawk

I think we can all agree that, at the core, Kickstarter is a scam. And if you don't agree, then, well, whatever.

fredley

Origami Robot

15:47

@Frank By that logic, any change from the original kickstarter is a broken promise.

5pike

> Eggsalad

Unionhawk

@5pike Priorities, man!

SaintWacko

@OrigamiRobot Well, yeah, that's kinda true

Frank

@OrigamiRobot It is. And backers should have the option of withdrawing their pledge.

Private Pansy

Terraria doesn't have cake, unfortunately. It does have pumpkin pies though

SaintWacko

15:47

Actually it's entirely true

Kevin van der Velden

@Frank they do, before it's launched

Origami Robot

I'm not sure we all have the same idea of what "promise" means...

Frank

Backers make a pledge based on the promises devs make, balanced against their pedigree, experience, and feasibility.

Chippies

David Braben responds to outcry over Elite: Dangerous' ditched offline mode

Unionhawk

Think about it this way: if you paid to play the alpha or beta, they don't want people to now go "I DON'T LIKE IT, I WANT MY MONEY BACK NOW PLEASE" and then buy the game at retail price.

Chippies

15:48

this article explains the reasoning behind the decision and it makes perfect sense to me

Unionhawk

+wording

Frank

@Chippies It makes sense, yes. I have no issue with them making the decision that way.

What I take exception to is them refusing refunds to the backers who backed on the promise of offline, "Because they played the alpha/beta"

Chippies

I just don't understand why anyone would look for a needle in the haystack and back that

of all the things on the kickstarter page, the offline mode was the least important, imho

fredley

> There is of course scope for a separate traditional offline story-based game set in the world of Elite, but it would be a different game to the one we have been making, and it is not something we plan to do.

Chippies

it's just not compatible with half the game

Arperum

15:50

@Unionhawk Yea, because the amount of money you needed to pay for alpha/beta access was ridiculous.

Frank

@Chippies Offline's not a needle in a haystack. Many people back based on that, as they often want to game where they can't connect online.

Unionhawk

Yes exactly

You could easily game the system under the proposed "Everyone should be allowed a refund" idea

Arperum

@Frank This is correct, not everyone can count on his internet being stable.

Origami Robot

> Refund requests are evaluated on an individual basis against the applicable terms and conditions of sale

Unionhawk

But yes, I think individual basis would be the best way to do it for those cases.

So they can at least vet out people who are trying to game the system a little bit

Frank

15:53

31 mins ago, by Frank

> "We have started responding to requests where there is a clear outcome," Braben says. "Those who have pre-ordered an Elite: Dangerous release version from our online store and have therefore not yet played the game are eligible for a refund.

"Those who have already been playing the game online in the Alpha and/or Beta phases, regardless of whether they backed the project via Kickstarter or purchased access to Alpha and/or Beta through our online store, are not eligible for a refund."

Powerlord

@Arperum For example, my Internet connection at home was yoyoing last night (and still was when I left for work this morning)

Frank

And their vetting is basically, "Nope, you played it, no refund for you!"

fredley

@Frank lolz

Origami Robot

@Frank Yes, that is the first part of the section of the newsletter. Immediately following that is saying "That being said, we will look at each case idividually."

Frank

@OrigamiRobot Got a link to that newsletter?

The article @Chippies linked to didn't have that.

Powerlord

15:56

whacks Visual Studio

Origami Robot

19 hours ago, by Origami Robot

> We want to make sure we treat each person's situation with the thoroughness it deserves, and have contacted each of them to ask that they bear with us over the next few working days if their circumstances do not fit either criteria above as we look into individual requests.

Powerlord

I have VS 2010 and VS 2013 installed and I tried to open a VS 2012 project. Attempting to open it in 2010 is the wrong thing to do

Arperum

@Powerlord That is not going to work indeed.

Frank

> "We have started responding to requests where there is a clear outcome,"

Origami Robot

sigh

Powerlord

15:57

@Arperum The sad thing is, the 2013 Visual Studio Version Selector is the default program for SLN files.

Frank

I'm willing to adopt a wait and see attitude, but that statement doesn't exactly give me a ton of faith they're going to do right by their backers.

Powerlord

Which means 2013 decided 2010 was the correct version to open it in. rolls eyes

Arperum

@Powerlord Wat, what did you do to open that in 2010 then?

Powerlord

This is despite there already being a v12 Visual Studio Options file (which VS 2013 previously created)

Jason Berkan

@Arperum The version selector looks at the files and decides which version of VS to open.

Powerlord

15:58

@Arperum I didn't. The VS2013 version selector opened it in VS2010.

Arperum

@Powerlord Ok, that's spectacularly dumb.

Powerlord

That's it's job: Deciding which version of VS to open a project in.

(I have 2008, 2010, and 2013 all installed)

Incidentally, the latest version of this requires VS2013 to even compile it so I have no idea why there are no VS2013 projects for it.

Jason Berkan

It must strongly like not forcing an upgrade.

Arperum

@Powerlord I only have 2008 and 2010 installed on the work laptop. no 2013 :(

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