The Overlook Hotel

RhysW

08:03

Almost time guys n gals! 5 days til NaNo

Stack Exchange

09:22

0

Q: Using citations in chapter headings?

I noticed in some books I read that under each chapter title, there is a citation, somewhat related to what the chapter in question is about. I was thinking of maybe using the same technique for my (first) novel. I have no experience in creative writing and so I was wondering whether this is frow...

Stack Exchange

13:35

0

Q: Are modern authors still using colons and semicolons in dialogue?

Not sure if it's just my idea but I rarely see colons and semicolons in dialogue (especially in modern novels). Is it because they don't simulate normal speech? Because their use is more a semantic one? If I'm wrong, could you please give me some examples of authors who do this?

fiction creative-writing dialogue

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

13:47

@KitFox Did you ever read any John Bellairs books? They're children's books with a gothic horror setting. I'd totally forgotten about them until I saw a library pamphlet recommending them.

KitFox

Hmm. I don't think so.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I had some of his books in a box set when I was young, but they were lost in the great book purge of 1999, an event I still regret.

KitFox

Oh! Yes.

I read The Letter, The Witch, and The Ring. It's on my bureau right now.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

How long since you last read it? Is it still good, or does it fall into the bin of "how did I ever read this stuff?"

KitFox

I read it for the first time earlier this year.

It was OK. It's a good bantam-weight book. Not too scary, kind of thrilling, slightly but not horribly transparent.

I would have really enjoyed it when I was in the 8 to 10 range, I think. I put it with Harriet the Spy and From the Mixed-Up Files... and The Egypt Game.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

13:53

yeah 8-10 is the recommended reading age.

KitFox

Haha. I just pulled that out of my ass.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I am literally feeling small physical pangs of anguish when I think of all my childhood books that I got rid of when we were downsizing. Why didn't I try harder to keep them?

KitFox

Because they are available in the library.

That's what makes me put books back on the shelf now.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Out of the entire set I kept the Chronicles of Narnia of all things.

KitFox

I almost bought Divergent yesterday.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

13:56

Why did I not keep Prydain instead?

KitFox

Oh god, that's awful.

That makes me want to cry.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Or the Bellairs box?

KitFox

Just burn the Narnia books, and check the others out of the library.

Or enjoy buying them all over again.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

The library is a no-go. My wife is paranoid that we'll get bedbugs from there.

KitFox

... what?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

13:57

There are bedbugs in Toronto. They are hard to get rid of once established.

And if someone with bedbugs takes out a book at the library, the bug might get checked back in with the book.

KitFox

I know, but from the library?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

There was a rumour of a single bug found in one book at one branch.

Which is enough for her to say "no more books!"

KitFox

Oh.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

But the kids are bringing school library books home every week

KitFox

You could quarantine them.

The books, I mean.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

13:59

yeah, freeze them

KitFox

Put them in a plastic bag as soon as you get them.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I will probably take the opportunity to re-buy at least some of my favourites.

Then blame her.

KitFox

Interesting plan.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

"What do you mean, I'm spending too much on books!?"

KitFox

"I'd love to save money, but the bedbugs at the library..."

There's no such thing as too much money on books.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

14:02

exactly.

KitFox

Books are awesome.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Granted, with her the problem is thus: 1. She doesn't like to re-read books. 2. She doesn't like having bookcases full of books taking up space. 3. She doesn't like to spend money.

So when I buy books, it peeves her.

KitFox

I enjoy the aesthetic of books.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

She reads tons, but she mainly borrows books from my parents, who have an informal book lending circle going on.

Oh, yeah, she also doesn't like ebooks.

I don't particularly like ebooks either.

KitFox

I don't like eBooks.

They are a mockery of nature.

Matt Эллен

14:04

Luddites!

KitFox

An affront to my sensibilities.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I'll read them if free, but I don't want to spend money on an ebook to the exclusion of a paper book. I wish my paper books just came with free ebook downloads.

I like having things like a search function for my books, and having a library in my pocket, but I also like a library on my wall and don't like reading on screens even though I've read tons that way.

KitFox

I wish there was a nice reader for electronic texts. Something designed by people who enjoy books.

I have yet to see one.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MattЭллен I was wondering why jacobites. Aren't they the ones who want the alternate royal line?

KitFox

Hi @Matty.

Matt Эллен

14:06

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 yeah, I think so :D I get the various rebels confused

hi @Kit

KitFox

So I bought the Legendary version of Skyrim yesterday, and I'm playing the intro and we get to the part where you choose between going with the Imperials or the Stormcloaks.

I say to my boys "Which way should I go? Imperials or rebels?"

Simultaneously:
Eldest: "Rebels"
Youngest: "Imperials"

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

heh

KitFox

Classic.

Matt Эллен

:D

KitFox

Although the eldest is going to be Darth Vader this year.

Mystifying.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

14:08

Imperial March sounds just like Spoonful of Sugar

Matt Эллен

maybe there's an argument that Vader is the ultimate sleeper rebel

KitFox

It's probably that he wants to make sure his little brother doesn't get to be Vader.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox have you used the Google Play Books reader?

KitFox

Don't think so.

Matt Эллен

I quite like it

but then I like eBooks

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I don't hear it myself...

KitFox

14:14

I don't hear it either, although I'm liking the march right now. Makes me want to have sex with people.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MattЭллен It's like the March is the evil version of the song.

It's in a minor key, but the rhythm and the structure are the same

Try singing the Mary Poppins words to the march

KitFox

If you say so. I can't sing the one to the other though.

Matt Эллен

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 yeah, I suppose they share a rhythm

KitFox

I think you're both crazy.

Now I'm hungry.

Matt Эллен

the more carzy you think we are, the hungrier you get

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

14:17

@MattЭллен I've used it a bit. It seems to work okay. It's no better in my eyes than the various other readers I've tried.

I used to read ebooks on my Sony Clie (a palm OS 4 device) back in the day.

The worst part of that was that the ebooks I had were all pirated scans and I had to spend hours fixing them up so that the formatting was legible.

Once THAT was done, it was fine

Matt Эллен

I like the google reader because I can tap on words and it tells me what they mean (if it can)

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

yeah that's neat.

Matt Эллен

also, the simulation of page turns is a nice touch

KitFox

I like page turn simulation.

user116848

hi all

KitFox

14:21

The endless scrolling makes me want to barf.

Hi @Arrowfar.

Matt Эллен

hi @Arrowfar

KitFox

I'm feeling pretty intensely frustrated today. An yideas on how to fix that?

user116848

@KitFox Nice pic

KitFox

@jsbձոգչ gave it to me.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox achieve something you set out to achieve

KitFox

14:23

Thank you.

@MattЭллен growls

Matt Эллен

@KitFox well, it worked for me

KitFox

Nothing is working.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MattЭллен Murder someone who needs murdering.

KitFox

frowns It's all borked.

Matt Эллен

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I guess if that's on your todo list...

KitFox

14:25

I have to write a story this week. Like nowish.

But I also have to finish this requirement.

Matt Эллен

do one right now. no more chat.

do the requirement

KitFox

OK.

user116848

@KitFox Are both these okay to say: (I mean people say like that in informal speech)

user116848

1) I proposed to a girl and she told me you are fake and immature...
2) I proposed to a girl and she told me I am fake and immature ...

user116848

> she told me that you are not my true friend because...
she told me that I am not her true friend because....

user116848

14:29

@MattЭллен What do you think?

Matt Эллен

@Arrowfar those are fine

user116848

okay.

Matt Эллен

@Arrowfar these are fine except that it seems an unlikely outcome of proposing to someone

user116848

Yes, hah :)

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I'd say you have to do this:
1) I proposed to a girl and she told me "You are fake and immature."
2) I proposed to a girl and she told me I was fake and immature.

Matt Эллен

14:32

oh! well, that makes more sense. I hadn't thought of it like that

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I guess your original 2) can work but it bugs me somehow.

Matt Эллен

I assumed 1) involved three people

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@matt what's your thought on the right tense to use for the 2nd part of #2?

user116848

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yeah, I know. But people say sentences like these in informal speech, right? I mean without 'backshifting'

Matt Эллен

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I would say was is more usual

user116848

14:34

Although backshifting looks formal.

Matt Эллен

but am is OK

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Arrowfar I don't think backshifting is more formal.

Matt Эллен

especially in contraction: "She told me I'm a sack of shit"

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I guess it would depend on whether or not the speaker thinks it's still true and/or relevant now.

Matt Эллен

yes

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

14:35

"When I woke up from the coma, the nurse told me I am the president" <- still am president

Matt Эллен

"The captain told me I am to report to the master at arms"

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

"When I woke up from the coma, the nurse told me I was the president" <- not president any longer

user116848

right. I see.

Matt Эллен

not president any longer / not believing the nurse

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

yeah. does not think is president right now.

So the "fake and immature" thing, I'd say if the speaker agrees with the girl, he might use am. If he doesn't, he might use was.

user116848

14:44

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 And in "she told me you are..." construction, is it always necessary to use quotation marks? Because in informal speech (like in ELU sometimes) some people use this structure without 'quotes'.

user116848

What is your opinion?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

It depends.

I spoke to Kit, and she told me you are a whiny help vampire.
I spoke to Kit, and she told me "You are a whiny help vampire."

In the first sentence, Kit is talking about you.

In the second, me.

(Note: Kit didn't say that)

user116848

I see :-)

Matt Эллен

yes, hence my confusion about 1)

KitFox

17:06

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I didn't say that to you.

I'm still not done, but I came back anyway because I'm in a tedious meeting.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I'm still here, but I should leave. I need a walk to help forestall this headache. Also it's voting day.

KitFox

I wish it were so here.

My husband volunteers for many political activities.

So this time of year blows.

Also, he told me this morning he has another meeting tonight.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

he should do the responsible thing, and put his meetings in a calendar you can access, so that you can see them on your phone days ahead.

KitFox

Well, we do that, except he forgets a lot.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

yeah, he should stop doing that.

KitFox

17:12

He should stop having meetings from 6 to 8 every goddamned night.

Because his wife is getting pretty irritated about it.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

yeah, he should stop doing that too.

I have a meeting tomorrow night.

KitFox

So does he.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

which reminds me that I'm unprepared for it.

KitFox

I am going to be out of town.

So the kids will have a sitter again.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I'm going to pop out for a bit. "Enjoy" your meeting.

KitFox

17:16

OK. See you.

I'll be in a better mood when you return.

RhysW

18:37

evening

user116848

@KitFox Yeah, so I am. Sorry I ask a lot of small grammar questions.

KitFox

18:48

@Arrowfar I'm pretty sure I didn't say it to you either.

@RhysW Hello.

Excited for NaNo?

RhysW

Seems im always travelling home when everyone else starts and stops talking! :P

yeah im ready this year

you ready?

KitFox

Getting there.

I wish I had more prep time.

RhysW

im going in totally unprepared, i usually overthink

KitFox

If I weren't hella overscheduled, I would do the same.

Still. It's coming up fast.

Are we writing buddies?

RhysW

it is, only a couple of days out!

i dont know what that means, but sure

KitFox

18:54

NaNoWriters, my handle is KitFoxfire. Ping me if you want to be writing buddies.

@RhysW Do you have your account set up on NaNoWriMo.org?

RhysW

yeah, did it this morning

havent actually used the site before now though

KitFox

Oh. You can have writing buddies, see your friends' progress.

RhysW

ahh so to add a little friendly competition aspect to it

KitFox

Yes.

I put a wordwar function on the bot, but she doesn't come to chat anymore.

RhysW

wow, your previous novels had long titles

KitFox

19:05

Yes. Part of the humor.

RhysW

19:24

I think I came up with my idea an hour ago on the bus

changed my mind from the previous one

RhysW

20:10

There we go novel 'Created' on the site and buddy request sent

further than i was last year already

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

20:43

@RhysW That's almost as far as I went last year. I think I did 1000 words.

RhysW

Nice, a thousand more than i've done. What was your plot?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Really they should promote October as National Novel Outlining Month. It would help november's project significantly.

@RhysW I'm not really sure, hence why it got stuck.

RhysW

Novel Outlining Month. NOM NOM NOM

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

It was meant to be a sci-fi novel where external forces were meddling with some local planet.

RhysW

i don't have much of a plan, i have a very very rough outline and plans to just 'go with it'

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

20:45

I hadn't spent enough time outlining the premise enough and got caught up in details.

Basically, the scope was too large for me to fly by the seat of my pants.

RhysW

ahh right, too much to hold in your head at once?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Not that, so much, but for the story to work the various disconnected factions need to be properly motivated to achieve certain conflicting goals. I wasn't sure what the goals were nor the motivations nor even all the factions.

RhysW

ahh, i had a story plan about dragon slaying that ended up like that. too large to handle and i just stopped trying to tie it together

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Now, the more I think of it, the more I realize that my premise was pretty naive. It was way too oversimplified.

RhysW

how so?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

20:50

Well, the scope was too large. Like, when one country is taking covert action to some effect in a foreign country, there are usually competing factions within that country trying to aid or hinder that action, or at least would be, if they knew of it.

Like, some US resource company might be trying to establish a mine in some foreign country.

But the US government is simultaneously trying to help them and trying to stop them, through disparate agencies such as the CIA.

RhysW

sounds complex

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Meanwhile the local country's citizens will be both for and against the US company's involvement

But almost always completely opposed to the US's spy agency involvement, even if it furthers their local goals

Now scale up to interplanetary groups

We don't even really have a realistic model of human behaviour in such groups.

The best examples would be the UN or the Catholic church or the EU.

RhysW

so basically, never at agreement even within themselves

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Yeah, it's basically impossible for unanimity.

So I could either simplify, and just hand-wave that and claim that they operate with consensus, or I could incorporate the discord into the story.

But either way, I needed to plot out the various actors and figure out why they were doing what they were doing.

I wanted the actions of the protagonist to be morally ambiguous. She would believe she was doing the right thing, and there would be justifications to back her up, but the reader should be able to see through it and question it.

Anyway I may come back to the story eventually. But probably not for Nano.

RhysW

sounds like your story was trying to give each end every single person a story and influence

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

20:59

well, not exactly.

but I wanted each faction to be represented by a few people, somehow.

And those people would need to have a story

and varying degrees of influence and effectiveness.

gotta run. bye!

Stack Exchange

21:53

0

Q: Resources for writers: websites for posting stories and poetry

I was asked if I could suggest a website (in English) where one can create a profile and post short-stories, poetry, or other pieces of literary work in an "informal" way. Additionally, such website should allow the writer to: edit the work (without the edits being visible) and eventually delet...

publishing short-story self-publishing poetry

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