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20:02
@Hippalectryon There is a missing $n$ in denominator, sorry.
OK, let me write up a generalization ...
A minor firewall change had some very ill effects, we have reverted and are digging into the issue.
@robjohn Thanks :-)
@MickLH Do it!
soon! I'm about to go on a nice bike ride to get my body functioning a little better
bbs
@Hippalectryon lol, I missed to write the long expression (actually it was a problem with copy/paste)
20:17
have you an idea ?
why i-1 ?
Guess what! I can go with this one into more dimensions ...
I was, @Sawarnik?
I'm bringing that one to another form, to a nicer one. There is a simple thing to note that makes things far nicer ...
@Khallil Purple is the colour I hate most.
Green is my favourite number of the alphabet, @JasperLoy.
2
20:30
lol
purple was once my favorite color
back when I had favorite things
and what do you have now?
Many wives, from which @blue can't choose a favourite.
20:32
re: chris's sis - there's a difference between arrogance and an elite aiming their communication at peers
I am still deciding what books to study next year. My list keeps changing.
There is a problem with the previous general formula, I think I let one term out. Yeah, it's fixed now.
Who let the terms out? Who? Who? Who-who?
@Khallil Ghostbusters!
@Khallil lol
20:36
@blue
yes
@blue i have got an excellent explanation (probably known, but I just came to know) for the Gram phenomenon
Today I found an article on why rings should be defined with 1.
are you interested?
@JasperLoy wat
what is 1?
20:38
multiplicative identity
multiplicative identity?
for multiplication
@BalarkaSen sure
@blue mathhelpboards.com/math-notes-49/…. still under construction, haven't mentioned the gram grim failure yet.
@Chris'ssis I just came back to see all your 'removed' messages :/
20:42
@robjohn sorry but can you help me on homotopy invariance ?
@Vrouvrou I'm afraid I don't know much about that subject. Sorry.
@Chris'ssis yeah :D you can delete it now
:17338146 what is $G(x)$?
@Chris'ssis what is $G$
@robjohn >:o you read my mind
@Hippalectryon it's a gift ;-)
20:44
@robjohn @Hippalectryon Barnes G - function
user image
2
Looks cool
Groovy.
@blue Don't you think you should unpin the news on arxiv? lol
20:46
@JasperLoy no. it's a major breakthrough in mathematical econometrics.
@BalarkaSen I did not even bother to see the link.
@robjohn Some time ago I didn't find this information on wiki (maybe one year ago?).
then you shouldn't suggest unpinning, @Jasper
@JasperLoy it'll go away on its own
=P
@blue after 15 days.
@blue what did you think of the explanation?
20:48
skimmed it, didn't get the main idea before I went back to other tabs
@blue other tags?
darn.
@blue main idea is the asymptotic identity $$Z(t) \sim \sum_{n \leq t^2} \frac{\cos(t\log n - \vartheta(t))}{n^{1/2}}$$
@Chris'ssis The history says it has been there for a while.
if $\vartheta(t_k) = k\pi$ and $\vartheta(t_k) = (k + 1)\pi$ then following $\cos(x-k\pi) = (-1)^k \cos(x)$, $Z(t)$ is expected to change sign in $[t_k, t_{k + 1}]$. does it make sense?
@robjohn ok, but try to see the question ust see it
@robjohn Maybe I couldn't find that page at that moment for some reason.
20:51
@Vrouvrou Don't you have friends or professors to help you in real life?
@Vrouvrou what question?
@Chris'ssis could be... I don't know about site outages on Wikipedia.
@Vrouvrou I have not studied Algebraic Topology.
@robjohn Strictly speaking, the A and T should not be capitalised in your sentence.
@JasperLoy it is the name of a topic.
20:55
@robjohn Which by certain style guides I read should not be capitalised. I like mathematics, not I like Mathematics.
So how can you say "strictly" speaking if it is only "by certain style guides"?
@skullpatrol Because no style guide I have seen says otherwise.
But, as you admit, it is a style :-)
Yes, that is what I said, no more, no less.
I keep biting my lips or tongue, grrr.
I need to apply some Bonjela.
The use of the word "strict" is inappropriate.
21:03
The word strict there actually suggests that it is not too bad to capitalise it, lol.
how so?
Imagine I omitted the strictly speaking, just compare.
fair point
Hmm perhaps the meaning of strictly speaking should be asked on the Eng SE.
@skull is a pointless troll. @Jasper is a pointed troll
no offence
21:05
>8(
@BalarkaSen how can I not take offence at being called a pointless troll?
and now it is starred!
I feel that some users ask too many questions on SE. If one asks too many things, one cannot learn math effectively. One must learn to think deeply by oneself.
@skullpatrol look at the bright side. you're lesser of a troll than you had imagined
Balarka Sen on ignore
There was once I said a question was difficult, and someone said it was not difficult, just tedious. I bet he did not even attempt the question himself. So although some may think he is smart to say that, I actually think the opposite, lol.
As with most things, a delicate balance must be maintained between asking for too much and not asking for enough.
21:14
It is very easy to see someone else's solution and then think it was easy to come up with it.
I agree. That still doesn't change what I said. A delicate balance must be sustained so as to not dilute the amount of thought you put into something.
@JasperLoy I like mathematics, but I liked my Mathematics class better than my Philosophy class.
@robjohn is a troll trasher.
@BalarkaSen is there a troll here? I'd better watch my goats.
4
Goats?
21:16
mountain trolls @Khallil
starred
I'm sorry. I still haven't got a clue of what you mean. T_T
Since 9 people starred the arrogant message, 10 people should star mine.
google [troll], @Khalli.
I know what 'troll' means on the internet, but I'm lost when it's preceded by 'mountain', @BalarkaSen.
I am going to sleep.
21:19
nvm.
later pal
Ok.
See ya later, @JasperLoy!
Who will I see in my dreams? lol
r9m
r9m
@robjohn :P lol ... at one point of time that was the bedtime story for my bro .. he just wouldn't go to sleep without listening to it once :P .. heaven knows why :P :P (he even made my buy a colored booklet of that story :P )
21:50
@r9m does he hang out on the internet looking for goats to cross his internet bridge? Could this be his future? youtube.com/watch?v=FMEe7JqBgvg
r9m
r9m
@robjohn he's too young to spend a lot of time on the internet :P
@r9m keep an eye on him ;-)
r9m
r9m
@robjohn :P lol ;)
the flame war of 99?
I must have missed that :(
22:07
Hi everyone I have a little problem with Algebra, I hope someone could give me a hint. It's not to difficult to open a question, I´m not sure if here is a correct place...
I´m only looking for a hint...
@JoseAntonio hmm?
could i put the doubt?
here
I certainly don't see why not
this says: Let $A,B,C$ subgroups of a finite group $G$. If $B\subset A$, then $A\cap C:B\cap C]\le [A:B]$ I honestly can´t see how to construct the correct injective map... i know is kinda stupid...
@DanielFischer I see you commenting on conformal map questions. That's my territory, bud!
@JoseA How about constructing a surjective map?
22:21
@MikeMiller don't call my bud, your bud
bud!
@skullpatrol too late pal
@MikeMiller mmm a surjective map, do you say a map from $$
$A\cap C/B\cap C to A /B$
The other way around!
I have thinking in something like $x(B\cap C)\mapsto xB$ I didn't have any problem to show that is well defined but on the other hand the injectivity part...
@MikeMiller
22:32
Sure, that works too. @Jose Suppose it wasn't injective, i.e., x(B \cap C) = y(B\cap C) but xB \neq yB. What does that mean about x and y?
(In that case, I mean that x,y are both in A \cap C)
@MikeMiller If the map wasn't injective what not this would imply the other direction, I mean, xB =yB, but x(B \cap C) \neq y(B\cap C)
Duh, you're right :) I was talking about well-definedness.
well definedness is easy, but injectivity I can't see it
Well, if xB = yB, then for all b \in B, $y^{-1}xb \in B$. Agreed?
absolutely
22:40
To show that $x(B \cap C) = y(B \cap C)$, then, all you need to show is that $xC=yC$.
But since $x$ and $y$ are in $A \cap C$...
both are in $C$, i.e., $xC=yC=C$, am i right?
and so y^{-1}x\in C and in B, i.e., $y^{-1}x\in B\cap C$ which shows that x(B \cap C) = y(B\cap C) and hence the map is an injecton as desired. @MikeMiller
Yup, you got it.
@MikeMiller THanks so much for your help.
:)
No problem, you were 90% of the way there @Jose :)
@MikeMiller Do you know of any efficient code for the (arithmetic) psi function in PARI?
there is no such implementation in GP, not even of Von Mangoldt.
looking at history, i see that i did the job by patching up the divisor sum, but it'd be too much of a load for GP to compute that for large numbers
22:57
I do not @Balarka
I have not used anything except what's built in and what I've made myself
such unhelpful. much meanie. so wrong. cry
If you need me to calculate a conformal map call me @Balarka
@MikeMiller I was giving a computational demonstration of the explicit formula
That's all I know how to do
@MikeMiller conformal map in GP? seriously?
22:58
LOL no
oh phew
You could probably a numerical method of calculating conformal maps but I am not competent enough at Pari to do it there
@Balarka You might look up "How explicit is the explicit formula?" It was a project of Mazur's and Stein's I was fortunate enough to see them speak about
PARI is not meant for such jobs. It's a number theoretic tool.
@MikeMiller Ah. Reference reference.
hey that's not riemann zeta. that's an L-function.
they're describing the explicit formula in the context of an L-function. that's interesting. but out of my league.
Hi @Mike @Balarka
hello @TedShifrin
how's life?
23:09
Tiring ... Teaching new students to become mathematicians and having to recode web homework because new versions of the software are not backwards-compatible.
what about the probability classes?
=P
Haha ... About 1/4 the class "skipped" Friday and didn't turn in homework. Pfeh.
Will do the envelope/letter and birthday problems this week.
that's how it is when a hard-core differential geometer is asked to teach probability.
@TedShifrin cool ugh.
No, I asked. How what is? Slack students? shrug more reason to retire.
I've taught all over the curriculum my whole career. One of my favorite courses was an applied math sequence in 86-87.
i found an interesting problem today. it asks for the probability of having 1 as the length of the straightline joining two random point on a unit circle.
elementary, but quite fun.
@TedShifrin what was it about?
23:17
Mixture of ODE, PDE, calc of variations, complex variables, linear alg, discrete Fourier and z-transforms
I somewhat like cal of variations, but haven't read much about it.
only in the context of Snell's formula a bit.
Prob of 1? Seems 0.
@TedShifrin nope. i get 1/3.
well, it might even be 2/3, can't make sure.
No, it's 0.
@TedShifrin How so?
23:20
You need an interval of values to get positive prob..
How do you get 1/3?
let there be two points with distance 1. join them. join the two points with the center. the angle formed is 60 degree. 60 + 60 degres out of 360 degrees gives 1/3.
Totally not right. You're doing less than or equal to 1.
Hello @Ted
Hi @Mike
@TedShifrin 60 degrees form if and only if the triangle is isosceles.
we have a unit circle, remember that
23:23
Think about what I said.
i can't. explain.
The chance of picking 60° is 0.
@Ted I have a problem, if you're interested.
@TedShifrin and I don't understand why. You are picking 60° out of 360°.
The chance of picking $0\le \theta\le 60°$ is 1/6.
23:26
hmm. oh right.
This is continuous probability distribution, not discrete, for starters.
On what @Mike?
@Ted Given an open subset of the plane, whose complement in $S^2$ is connected. Show it's simply connected!
Ah, that's the old Artin definition.
Think winding numbers ...
Naive argument: take the convex hull or the image of a loop. This is contractible. Of course, this doesn't work. More sophisticated idea: homotope the loop so that it's an immersion and intersects itself transversely. (Is this possible?) Then this probably has a coherent notion of interior.
Take the union of the curve and its interior... and it's probably contractible.
No, you need a simple curve for interior, I think.
I actually did this when I taught grad cx variables 20 years ago.
23:35
You do need it but imagine a lemniscate - not simple, but there's a "smallest" contractible set that contains it (just draw out the bigger heart shaped curve and take its interior)
The original question was that H_1 zero implies pi_1 = 0. But one can reduce it to this
The original original question was that an open connected subset of the plane with trivial homology is homeomorphic to the disc :)
what's the difference? you're just putting symbols instead of the names
Well, if we're using arsenals, why not use van Kampen to prove the contrapositive? Are we allowed Jordan curve? I dunno ... I can check old notes tomorrow. So many old course notes to scan ....
@Ted I'm fine with arsenals but don't see how to use can Kampen's
@MikeMiller you mean van Kampen
ok i'll just zip the lip
@Ted the only proof I actually have of this is to quote a black box (non compact surfaces have free pi_1)
I mean whatever I want

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