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12:56 AM
@MonicaCellio Hah. .....it's important to know when buying eggs in the supermarket -- you think quail eggs are kosher, but you have to know what type of quail made these eggs.....see this article by my rebbi for more info
@Shokhet thanks for the link. (I don't think I've ever seen quail eggs for sale, but now I'll know to pay attention if I do.)
@MonicaCellio I don't shop much, but friends have told me that they've seen them in places like Trader Joe's (don't remember, maybe Costco also)
@Shokhet ah, that makes sense. I haven't spent a lot of time in either Trader Joe's or Whole Foods (both of which we have here); I do most of my shopping at either the kosher mart or the fairly-generic grocery store across the street (Giant Eagle).
1:12 AM
@MonicaCellio Yeah it's more of a fancy-store type of thing to sell
1:44 AM
@MonicaCellio Regarding
It's not a valid marriage (so you're right; family purity doesn't apply since that's not her obligation). But if she is going to do this thing anyway, then better -- while she rejects the halacha about intermarriage -- that she still keep the halacha she does care about. So rather than doom it to failure, saying "won't work; may as well give up" and have her joining him for the bacon cheeseburgers, I think it's valuable to still try. Anonymous people on the Internet aren't going to convince her to give up the marriage instead, after all. — Monica Cellio ♦ 13 hours ago
My mashgiach told a story......
Where a boy he helped with different issues had a girlfriend, and things started getting serious.....he asked Rav Mattisyahu Salomon if he should tell him that if he ends up getting intimate with her, if he should tell him to tell her to go to mikvah first, so that the aveirah done would only be a לאו (negative commandment) versus a חיוב כרת
......Rav Mattisyahu told him that he absolutely should not do that, even though he could save this boy from a חיוב כרת, because as soon as he tells him that one way is better than another, he has (between the lines) allowed him to do a serious aveirah
So your above comment may not be so true, even though it sounds right....איסורי עריות are very serious things, and, as @Nafkamina says:
I suggest this question should be posed to an orthodox rabbinical authority in your area. — Nafkamina yesterday
.......whether that story and this question are the same, I cannot tell you; but definitely צריך שאילת חכם on how to proceed
Thanks. In the case of a rabbi I can see that reasoning; a rabbi is in a position to (appear to) condone something that ought not be condoned. In the case of just plain Jews, I guess I lean more toward the kiruv approach: I'd rather keep the person connected to some torah (in hopes that we can do better later) than seem to give license to throw up one's hands and say "it's impossible anyway, so I give up", and then the person walks away and is lost to us.
I don't want the intermarriage. If I knew the people involved, I'd be counseling against that. But for a stranger, better to help the person hang onto some kashrut while, I hope, she seeks rabbinic guidance about the larger matter.
And I did say to consult a rabbi. (Err, I think/hope! Let me check.)
Yes. Ok, thought so - just needed to make sure it got out of my head and to the keyboard.
It's hard to know how to respond properly to different questions in different contexts....I just wanted to get the idea out there that what makes sense isn't always the right answer [note: I was thinking my rebbi should have advised mikva, but that wasn't the correct דעת תורה answer in that situation]
These questions always are very difficult to deal with
from any angle
@Shokhet they are. Perhaps you will offer an answer too?
I have NO IDEA what the right thing to do in that situation is.......I'll let other, more knowledgeable people deal with it
(and possibly place the responsibility for information shared on their own shoulders ;)
2:51 AM
@MonicaCellio @msh210 before I go on a retagging party, I just created the "shnayim mikra" tag and see lots of related questions. Do you think it's a valid necessary tag?
@YEZ I think I'd better defer to others on this, but: got a few links?
Q: shnayim mikra on succos for Parshas Breishis

Gershon GoldCan you say Shnayim Mikra for Parshas Breishis prior to Simchas Torah?

Q: Shnayim mikra ve'echad targum in English

GabiCan I fulfill the obligation of shnayim mikra by saying the pasuk two times and then the English translation one time?

Q: Getting a head start on Shnayim Mikra

Seth J(Inspired by this question) Can one get a head start on Shnayim Mikra? Would it count if someone either started early (perhaps during the weeks with no Sedra in Tishrei), or just had some spare time and went on to the next week's (and then the next and the next) Parashah?

for starters
Thanks, that helps.
@DoubleAA if you're around, see above comments
It does seem like a tag is probably reasonable. Otherwise we get a mix of targum, torah study, and others. Please don't take me as authoritative, though; @msh210 and @IsaacMoses and others know our tags better than I do.
3:14 AM
We recently passed 10K (Questions - Unanswered Questions), but given that the former includes closed, etc., here's a Number of Open Answered Questions query, which currently returns 9345, FWIW.
@YEZ I agree with @MonicaCellio
@IsaacMoses You agree that you know the tags better?
3:48 AM
4:25 AM
(Not caught up here yet but) Could anyone interested please see the info wiki for ? I just wrote it and want to make sure it's reasonably in intent and in execution.
@msh210 are you not removing the tag from its existing usages?
ok now it's only on one question, which was migrated. Anything we can do about that?
4:41 AM
@YEZ I think we can delete that question. I mean, judaism.stackexchange.com/help/privileges/moderator-tools says "Closed questions that are of no lasting value whatsoever should be flagged and deleted." and I think this qualifies. Thoughts (anyone)?
@MonicaCellio (Just catching up on back-read here.) Beats me. I've reviewed it as "keep open".
@msh210 I assume you just deleted it. The one problem is that now your tag wiki is gone, and someone may come along and not see the big all caps warning to not use such a tag.
or does that not happen when it's deleted?
(I can't vote to delete because when I open it, it takes me to the migrated to location)
@MonicaCellio (Really a reply to your comment rather than to your chat post.) Re "It's not a valid marriage (so you're right; family purity doesn't apply since that's not her obligation).": I don't get the "since..." part.
@YEZ I didn't delete it.
@YEZ I don't know. I hope not. :-)
@msh210 I know - I found it again. And tried to delete it. And failed. Miserably.
@YEZ What happened?
@msh210 Well, nothing really, but it sounded much more dramatic that way. When I open the question from judaism.se, it takes me to the BH manifestation of the question.
4:51 AM
@YEZ Thank you! Yes.
@YEZ What happens if you put ?redirect=no or ?redirect=0 at the end of the URL?
... something like that.
@IsaacMoses Welcome to chat. Ltns. :-)
@msh210 Both still take me to BH. All roads lead to BH.
Q: What is "teachers of the Torah" talking about it 1st Timothy 1:7?

user6720What does Paul mean when he says They want to be teachers of the Torah, but they understand neither their own words nor the matters about which they make such emphatic pronouncements.? — 1st Timothy 1:7 What does he mean by this (in context), and who/what is he specifically refering to?

I don't know why I thought that would work...
@msh210 no
@msh210 I did it!! ?nodirect=1
@YEZ Pffft. Good to know, thanks.
@YEZ Did you click the delete button, or flag it?
@msh210 Not that I can delete it. I flagged it.
5:04 AM
@YEZ Don't you have a delete vote?
@msh210 I didn't get a delete option. (Not sure why not)
@YEZ Weird.
@msh210 I was all excited to cast my first one! Maybe because it's migrated?
@YEZ Could be. Likely there's something on MSE about it. I'm not checking now.
Q: Why can't I vote to delete a migrated question?

YEZA question was migrated away from Judaism.SE. Now it is sitting in the archives of closed and locked questions, with an obsolete tag. I want to delete it, and purge the obsolete tag from the face of the planet! But (I assume because it is locked) I can't vote to delete it. Why is a migrated q...

5:14 AM
@YEZ Thanks.
@msh210 TZT.
5 hours later…
10:41 AM
I wish I could do something constructive about the following:
Q: May I ask a question about The Holocaust?

husein5Can somebody help me out? I've been wondering how to find a reliable source by which I can rest assured everything about The Holocaust, including its authenticity, the time and the place of this event and so on. I'm really confused because I've been hearing lots of things recently concerning this...

I suspect the user is a troll, however.
(Feel free to delete the above chat messages if you want)
2 hours later…
12:22 PM
@msh210 sorry for the confusion. Having relations with a niddah is a violation of halacha for a man. The man in this case isn't Jewish, so he's not obligated. Even if the Jewish woman in the pair goes to the mikvah every month and observes all the other related laws, it doesn't change anything. That's all I meant.
@msh210 just in case you don't already know: we moderators see the local page for a migrated question (with the migration link), but everybody else gets the redirect. I believe the Roomba will automatically clean up the local copy at some point since this one is downvoted. (I don't know if it does migration "stubs" anyway, or just if downvoted. Most people will never see them anyway.)
@AndrewGrimm sounds like he's probably trolling, yeah. I mean, if you follow his argument, most of history is highly suspect because he can't talk to an eyewitness -- but I'll bet he doesn't believe that. (Also, there are still eyewitnesses around.) Good luck in dealing with him.
12:56 PM
@MonicaCellio the folks at MSE told me after 30 days migrated questions are deleted.
1 hour later…
2:08 PM
@MonicaCellio When a Jewish man and women have relations while she's a Niddah they both get Kareit.
1 hour later…
3:15 PM
@DoubleAA oh! Thanks for the correction. So if a Jewish woman has relations with him when she's a niddah, does she get kareit?
(Or should I be asking that on main?)
3:35 PM
@MonicaCellio "Jewish woman has relations with her" - what was that supposed to say?
@YEZ sorry, him -- a Jewish woman has relations with a non-Jewish man -- does she get karet? (Fixed.)
@MonicaCellio Oh, heh, then I'll remove my chat post.
@MonicaCellio I believe not.
I think there may be much bigger issues, but.
@YEZ that's what I thought too, hence my original comment (on the post) that niddah concerns didn't seem to apply in a mixed marriage. But it was a passing comment, not an answer, and I'm glad to have had the further discussion here. (I may go ahead and ask the question about this case.)
Besides, my Workspace rep is again threatening to overtake my Mi Yodeya rep, so I need to do something. :-)
@MonicaCellio I think it was a misunderstanding (or a mis-statement) of your point. You seemed to imply the prohibition is restricted to men. It is not. But it is, IIRC, restricted to Jews.
@MonicaCellio Yes, I recalled correctly. Rambam, isurei biah 4:4.
3:46 PM
@YEZ I think I also had some misunderstanding, now cleared up -- I thought that for a Jewish marriage the transgression was on him (not on her) if they had relations, but if the man isn't Jewish then there is no transgression. The second part of that is correct; the first was apparently mistaken.
@MonicaCellio That's what I thought happened. I was actually going to point out that you were correct despite your mistake, but I wasn't sure what you meant.
@YEZ yeah, sorry about that, and thanks for the help.
@MonicaCellio I'm all armed with my Rambam citation if you decide to ask it on main. :)
Q: In a mixed marriage, is a Jewish woman liable for kareit if they have relations while she's niddah?

Monica CellioI know that per torah, if a (Jewish) man has relations with a woman who is niddah he is punished with kareit. I have been told that in this case the woman is also punished with kareit. Is the woman's kareit dependent on the man's, or independent? If a Jewish woman (who is niddah) has relations...

Oh this is ironic -- my answer to this question on TWP just caused my Workplace rep to overtake my Mi Yodeya rep.
@MonicaCellio You should provide them with links to this answer for further reading!
@MonicaCellio or maybe this one would be more appropriate.
4:05 PM
@YEZ laugh I'd forgotten about those.
1 hour later…
5:11 PM
I guess I can't create a tag wiki for an empty tag. Darn.
5:37 PM
@AndrewGrimm @Monica I'm not sure the user is trolling, at most they may be asking rhetorically, for the purpose of convincing (though I doubt it). Ultimately, the "doubt history for lack of eyewitnesses" argument is a slippery one, as you said, because it applies to everything, and before you know it Descartes is looking over your shoulder going "hm?"
@HodofHod and if the user really has a general "how do we know what's true if we can't directly talk to witnesses?" question, then I'm a little suspicious that he chose that particular example, especially coming from a user with that name and that list of SE accounts. Yeah, maybe I'm profiling, but it sounds like a question designed to evoke the "answer" that certain groups teach as "true" despite all evidence -- which will prompt responses, and then you have a flame war.
@MonicaCellio I think the mod there who closed it addressed that issue very tactfully with his/her comment
@MonicaCellio No, I profiled similarly, but think about it this way: The reason they don't have the question about the rest of history, and don't see how their logic causes problems there, is because this is a specific event that is at least somewhat commonly denied or "revised" in Arabic culture. So they're not "choosing that as an example" - it's the one that they've been taught and that they may even be questioning (or that they're trying to push)
@YEZ I agree. (Didn't seem worth making an account there just to upvote the comment.)
Ultimately, this pattern of questioning a specific, while not realizing the much greater question that it implies, is common of those who are asking based on second-hand "education", or an agenda that they're trying to push.
5:51 PM
@HodofHod true. I do wonder, though -- if all the survivors, all the testimony, and all the physical evidence won't make a dent in their myth, why asking unless you're trying to get somebody to say "didn't happen"?
@HodofHod yup, agreed.
@MonicaCellio I suspect that many of them simply haven't been exposed to the evidence, or were only exposed to it after they had been indoctrinated with the whole conspiracy.
@MonicaCellio In any case, he seems to have been a hit and run.
@HodofHod ah, that's a good point. I mean, if you've ever seen Palestinian children's TV, for example, you've got a sense for the kinds of propaganda they spit out.
For example, I've seen a fair number of questions to religious people that ask why G-d wants humankind to do something specific (e.g., teach about G-d) when He can do it Himself? It's the agenda of not liking how religion is "pushed" that leads them to miss the much better and broader question: "Why does G-d ask anything of humankind?"
(Back later - got a meeting.)
5:56 PM
@MonicaCellio Oh yes. It's depressing, to be frank, and makes one wonder how we'll make peace with kids raised on suicidal Mickey Mouse.
@MonicaCellio K. When you get a chance, have you seen this comment convo? judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/28080/…
@HodofHod Golda Meir said "We won't have peace with the Arabs until they love their children more than they hate ours"
@YEZ Yep.
6:30 PM
Is this a good question?
Q: How to take a cold shower

FlimzyThis is a question that most people probably never think about, because it's an every-day thing. But for many of us, such as myself, who grew up in more western cultures, with more modern conveniences, visiting places that don't have hot water can be quite an adjustment, perhaps even more diffic...

(from the hot questions on the side of the page)
@Shokhet Wow. What timing.
@YEZ I know :)
6:53 PM
Why are there some items in my reputation tab of my profile page that are highlighted in a peach-ish color?
@YEZ are they the newest ones? Changes to your reputation since the last time you looked there are highlighted.
@MonicaCellio You are correct. I went back to it and it was gone.
@HodofHod thank you for pointing that out; I had not seen the thread. I'm glad the people involved got the misunderstandings sorted out (maybe I should delete some of those now?). And I share your concern about the underlying issue, as you know.
7:29 PM
@MonicaCellio I've been thinking about deleting mine. It has some useful stuff, but I think the later comment suffices.
But on that topic: There's some sad irony there that the first time I thought I'd be confronting some else's tone issues, it turns out I was the one causing them. :(
But! There's a good lesson or two for me here. 1) I need to be more careful about how I request more info. (Usually, I do explain better than that) 2) Better to point out that something could come across as aggressive than assuming it is, and aggressively calling it out. I ended up causing the very issue that I was trying to fix.
@HodofHod in your חצי defense, the way the original comment was worded was not misunderstood to be aggressive - it was mis-typed to be aggressive. He was accidentally aggressive, not you mistook nonaggression to be aggression.
but it had a happy ending nonetheless
7:51 PM
@YEZ Thanks :) This is true, but ultimately, I did end up misunderstanding the intention, and for this reason I need to be more careful. Also, using this guideline in other places, where the person may actually have been insensitive to their tone, may be the best way to point it out without causing further offense and aggravating the situation.
(This is all kinda obvious, and I've been careful about this stuff in the past, but this was a great reminder for me to remember that I still have to work on it.)
in Room for Will and Isaac Moses, Dec 27 '11 at 15:57, by Isaac Moses
@HodofHod @Will {Looking around for the Beit Hamikdash being re-built on the spot of this chat room} :)
@BabySeal Howdy stranger.
@HodofHod I have had a few comment wars during my time here. If its with a vet, I can be pretty frank with them, (Monica deleted like 60 comments over two questions between a user and I about Oral Law origins xD, also <3 DoubleAA). With newer users, I try to spend a sentence or so welcoming them, then another sentence that compliments the question, answer, and then I get in to what I think could be improved. That tends to not offend them.
8:06 PM
@HodofHod I think we all have to work on this; being aware of how people who aren't us might perceive our words requires effort.
@BabySeal hi! Welcome back!
@BabySeal I've always been careful with new users, and I'm usually good with suggesting improvements, but I have more work to do with regard to people who come across as aggressive.
@MonicaCellio thanks! I do take solace in thinking that with certain users I feel I can just get right to it and lay in to them >:D
@MonicaCellio Yep. I like to think I'm usually better at couching my words, and that this was not typical, but either way, it's clear I've more work to do :)
@HodofHod yes you are consistently and reliably welcoming. I was just adding my 2 cents on to the pile.
@HodofHod it does not strike me as typical of you. In fact, when I saw one comment I double-checked who it was from because it didn't seem right. So I assume you were having a bad day or something.
8:14 PM
@BabySeal Thank you :D I really appreciate that.
I have trouble with people who are being rude or aggressive, too. It's so natural to be a mirror, to reflect back the approach that the other person is taking with me, and I have to keep telling myself that if I want to fix the problem rather than just fight, I'm going to need to repress that urge no matter how frustrating that is. Sometimes I muster tact; sometimes I just walk away. I'm still learning.
@MonicaCellio Yeah, I was kinda building this big bad wolf of bad tone in my head, and responding to that. Foolish, I know.
@HodofHod I'm thinking of deleting the first five comments. Any objection?
@MonicaCellio Yeah, in my earlier days here, I did do that with some users (the conversation referenced in the Isaac Moses quote above), but I don't think I'd repeat that mistake again.
@MonicaCellio None from me.
@BabySeal :<3
8:20 PM
@HodofHod now that I've looked at the beginning, I'm reminded that I had some frustrating interactions with that user too (and I don't mean Issac, or you :-) ).
@BabySeal is that a baby? It doesn't look like one, but I'm hardly fluent in phocine development.
@MonicaCellio It's a shame he left. The truth is (and I told them in TL when they asked me) is that he was a knowledgeable and potentially very valuable user. He did need to learn how to better fit in the SE framework and how to tolerate divergent opinions better.
@MonicaCellio ...says the woman who knows the word "phocine"
@HodofHod I looked it up. :-)
@MonicaCellio en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harp_seal#Description (pedantic phocine new name?)
I'm avatar hunting and that seal looked particularly squash able.
That is a perfect fit for "baby seal"
Seriously, That thing has probably been on the front of /r/aww like 20 times already. :D
@BabySeal ah, you're looking for squashability! That one works. And is very cute. But nobody should be looking to actually squash either of you...
@HodofHod must...not...click. :-) (Did not know about /r/aww. Probably best for my productivity if I forget I heard this. :-) )
8:28 PM
@MonicaCellio Forget what?
I decided on a more posh, scholarly look. Notice I'm stroking my beard in thought. People need to take me seriously after all.
It's a bittersweet Rosh Chodesh; Ahron Hacohen's Yahrtzeit, and Av...
Has anyone else missed Ahron the past few weeks? Every time the verses say Elazar or Moshe and Elazar, it makes me sad ): Hoppin off, take care!
@BabySeal oh I like that one! Looks very contemplative.
9:39 PM
oh boy, animals
Is there any Siddur on Google Play Store for Android, that is Nussach Ashkenaz for the Diaspora. One that gets this right/in this form- Shacharit-sim shalom. Weekday Mincha-shalom rav. Weekday maariv-shalom rav. Shabbat Mincha-sim shalom
I don't know if I can ask that on the site, or if it would be closed as a shopping question?
@barlop we have some questions. I don't know how many apps you will find with Shabbat Mincha on them.
@YEZ heh, good point
9:58 PM
@MonicaCellio Do you know if a chat feed will keep a room from being frozen?
10:09 PM
@HodofHod Unlikely, but there is only one way to find out....
@DoubleAA Hey! Can you do me a favor and unfreeze this?
I want to see if I can prevent it from refreezing. I suspect not, but..
@DoubleAA Many thanks!
@HodofHod it will not; a real live user has to type something into the room every 14 days.
@MonicaCellio Shucks! Is this documented somewhere?
@HodofHod I don't know. I learned it empirically. :-)
@MonicaCellio I assume no difference between ticker feeds and the post feeds?
10:29 PM
@HodofHod as far as I know that's correct.
(But most of the rooms I spend time in don't have ticker feeds, so I might not notice if that's different.)
Oh well. I was hoping there was some way to keep that room alive without bugging you guys or writing a bot that might violate the ToS. (I don't know).
@HodofHod favorite the room, look at your favorites every now and then, and when you see the "N days ago" message for last post reach double digits, pop in and poke it.
On one site I've had to do that with the moderator room at least once, by the way. :-)
@MonicaCellio I wouldn't keep on top of that. But you've given me a good Idea. What I should do is write a script that reminds me. That should be quick and more reliable.
Anywho, looks like SE has a small bug reading dates when new feeds are added.
@HodofHod a script to remind you to do a manual task -- yeah, if you can't script the thing itself, that works. :-)
@MonicaCellio I'd probably be able to. I should check the ToS first, though.
(Sorry for all the extra pings today)
10:36 PM
@HodofHod no problem (she says, returning the favor :-) ). Yeah, check the TOS; nothing stands out in my memory, but I certainly wasn't thinking about user scripts when I last read them. Besides, CYLTOS-Advisor. :-)

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