The Nineteenth Byte

ProgrammerDan

12:32 AM

@luserdroog Do you want to specifically exclude LCARs, due to overuse? Or would that be valid too?

luser droog

Ooo. That's a good question. I'm not sure. It shouldn't be all Okudagrams, but I hesitate to forbid them.

I want it to be animations, though, hence "simulate".

I hadn't considered those, because technically, originally, they weren't computer-generated.

ProgrammerDan

They are the display format I've seen most commonly simulated -- although they were static initially, yes, I think for all of us that grew up on Star Trek, they were alive :P

Jason C

1:00 AM

When a comment on a challenge that reads "The worst two tags. In one question. I would love to downvote this more" is flagged as "not constructive" and the flag is declined by moderators, that's a pretty clear indication of where the problems with PCG originate.

@ChrisJester-Young ^ Think about our conversation about what moderators should be doing.

Chris Jester-Young

@JasonC I declined your comment flag. Happy?

Jason C

@Doorknob I know we disagree on a lot of stuff but if you ever ran for a PCG moderator election, you would have my vote.

Chris Jester-Young

@JasonC I support Doorknob for mod too. Which is probably the one and only thing we agree on. ;-)

Doorknob

@JasonC Thanks, although I'm still not entirely sure if I would run if there was an election ;)

Jason C

@ChrisJester-Young Happy with what? That you single-handedly proved the point about complete lack of moderation on PCG? You often cite other SE sites as a model. Do you think that comment flag would have been declined on SO?

Doorknob

1:02 AM

Link to the comment you're discussing? Context needed.

Chris Jester-Young

@JasonC You like heavy-handed moderation. I do not.

Jason C

16

Q: Convert short month names to their longer counterparts

Please help me, it's very urgent!!! :( I need to convert shortened versions of month names to their longer representations (e.g "Dec" -> "December"), case-insensitive. Right now I'm using Java; the month's name is a String and I would rather not convert it to a Date object first. Any language wi...

@Doorknob ^

Doorknob

I see

Jason C

@ChrisJester-Young No I don't. But there's a difference between keeping from being heavy-handed, and not doing anything at all.

All confusion and lack of cohesion on PCG stems from what they moderators aren't doing. I don't understand how that can't be clear as day.

Chris Jester-Young

@JasonC Your comments to me so far proves to me that, by my standards at least, you'd actually be quite aggressive.

Jason C

1:04 AM

@ChrisJester-Young Sorry I don't understand. I would be quite aggressive in what context?

Chris Jester-Young

@JasonC Nuking comments, for example.

Jason C

Wait what?

Doorknob

On one hand, comment micro-management doesn't seem like the best use of a mod's time. But on the other hand, I don't see how that comment adds to the discussion and it's frankly quite rude.

ProgrammerDan

@JasonC fyi, the community restored, recovered, and redeemed a poor question earlier today, instead of closing & deleting it :). Hopefully, the user that asked it has learned quite a bit about better questions in the process.

Jason C

No, I have no dreams of being a moderator here if that's what you are implying, I would be too aggressive and so would never run. @ChrisJester-Young

Doorknob

1:05 AM

@ProgrammerDan Proving a point about turd-polishing in the process ;)

Both literally and figuratively!

Jason C

@Doorknob Yes, but a "not constructive" flag was declined, and its a microcosm of the reasons why PCG is so fuzzy and argumentative all the time.

@Doorknob Lol, actually, I believe Myth Busters also polished a turd.

luser droog

That particular comment is pretty mild. And it's buried unless you click for more, and then it's still pretty buried.

Chris Jester-Young

@JasonC I would delete a comment if it's indisputably bad. I think in this case, though, it's more...debatable. It's not bad just because you say so.

Doorknob

Indeed; that's what I was referring to by "literally" :P

@Doorknob Turns out, you can polish a turd — ProgrammerDan 7 hours ago

Geobits

@Doorknob I've done it with dirt. Dorodango, it's actually not much work, and they turn out pretty nice looking.

Chris Jester-Young

1:07 AM

@JasonC Have you considered the possibility that people, including mods, might disagree with you, and do not have to respond to everything you say with utmost agreement?

Jason C

@ChrisJester-Young It is categorically not constructive, and would have been removed on any other network site. To be frank, I'm not sure how you could argue otherwise with a straight face, not to mention all the general PCG -> SE comparisons you were drawing the other day. I really don't have much more to say there.

Geobits

Works best if you sift the dirt first to get larger pebbles out of it.

Chris Jester-Young

@JasonC Well, there you go. I disagreed with you with a straight face.

Jason C

@ChrisJester-Young Yes, and that is 100% OK, in chat, and in meta, but not in comments on challenges. You know that. You've been around the block on SE sites.

@ChrisJester-Young Just because you dislike a question and agree with a non-constructive comment doesn't mean you keep it. Have you considered the possibility that total lack of moderation might be why PCG's main is more like a meta? That maybe that's why nobody can agree on anything? That maybe that's why its a community of users who think random downvotes on answers and snarky comments on questions is OK, despite that being not OK on any other site?

Chris Jester-Young

@JasonC I have been with SO since the very beginning, and I am just as lax with comments there as here. That is, I don't go out of my way to flag any comments unless it's really, really bad.

Doorknob

1:09 AM

Wait a minute, since when was that there?!

Jason C

Ok, here's the question: Do you think that comment would fly on SO?

Chris Jester-Young

@Doorknob What on earth?!

Doorknob

@JasonC I've definitely seen much worse.

(On SO, I mean)

Chris Jester-Young

@JasonC If you were a mod there, probably not. Thankfully, you're not.

Jason C

@Doorknob And were flags on much worse comments declined? That's the point I'm trying to make here. Users will say things like that.

ProgrammerDan

1:10 AM

I'm trying to understand what the point of this discussion is besides an outlet for non-constructive frustration with a disagreement between a particular user and their preconceptions of moderation?

Chris Jester-Young

@ProgrammerDan There is none.

Jason C

@ChrisJester-Young I have never, once, ever seen a flag like that declined. Should we ask on SO meta to see what the other mods would do?

ProgrammerDan

This is really cyclical, and it's bringing this whole chat down, with no purpose and no possible elevation.

Geobits

@ProgrammerDan Not much it seems. I think the attempt to divert by talking about turds failed.

Jason C

@ProgrammerDan The point is; well most of the point is in that meta post.

ProgrammerDan

1:11 AM

Which I think we've all read, and replied to in one form or another

so considering it's been considered and vetted and replied to at length in meta, let's move on

Doorknob

@Geobits Heh, "the attempt to divert by talking about turds." That is an absolutely wonderful phrase.

ProgrammerDan

and talk about fun stuff, like polishing turds, or interesting coding challenges

undergroundmonorail

on an unrelated note

Chris Jester-Young

@Doorknob That it is. :-D

undergroundmonorail

did anything ever come of the GTB thing? i need to know if my downvotes are still justified

Doorknob

1:12 AM

A wild @undergroundmonorail appeared!

Jason C

The gist of the discussion here is that the moderators here, in their passiveness, through a bunch of indirect steps, eventually lead to a potentially awesome SE site never truly move past a snarky community confused about what it wants.

Chris Jester-Young

@undergroundmonorail I still want to know what a GTB is, pardon my ignorance.

Doorknob

GTB is incredibly meh.

ProgrammerDan

Yeah, what is a GTB?

Geobits

Ask Timtech

Doorknob

1:13 AM

"golfed TI-Basic"

undergroundmonorail

Timtech invented a programming language

Doorknob

A language with no compiler or interpreter

Chris Jester-Young

Oh dear!

undergroundmonorail

and even if it wasn't a crappy language, no compiler exists anywhere

Chris Jester-Young

That's a bit like goruby in concept, I'd presume.

Doorknob

1:13 AM

An untestable language with submissions that don't solve the problem but nobody realizes it

ProgrammerDan

@JasonC I've only been here a few weeks, and besides these discussions of yesterday and today, this exchange seems both full of purpose, intensely talented people, and quite a lot of exciting challenges. I've been enjoying it.

Doorknob

tl;dr Incredibly meh

Chris Jester-Young

@JasonC You've stirred the excrement quite a bit already, both here, in your code challenge, and on meta. Some people tried to explain; others just shrugged. I don't think more excrement-stirring will achieve anything.

Jason C

@ProgrammerDan Oh no doubt there's some great challenges, answers, and talent, that's no argument.

undergroundmonorail

I don't know what goruby is but GTB compiles to TI-Basic code by doing literal string replacements

Jason C

1:14 AM

@ChrisJester-Young Be a moderator.

luser droog

@undergroundmonorail I think he did update the page and added a download link for the .exe.

Chris Jester-Young

@JasonC I am, believe it or not.

luser droog

So it's available, but windows-only.

But then you'd still need to run the TI-Basic code, somehow.

ProgrammerDan

I'm amazed at the diversity of esoteric languages here. Where do you all find the time?

Jason C

@ChrisJester-Young Just having a diamond doesn't cut it. Come on. You're intelligent and what you say carries a lot of weight. Use it for the better.

undergroundmonorail

1:16 AM

@luserdroog I don't see it, but it's very possible that I'm missing something

Jason C

@ProgrammerDan Check out 99-bottles-of-beer.net

ProgrammerDan

@JasonC ooh fun!

undergroundmonorail

And even if there is a compiler, it's pretty dumb that it's just another language with keywords shortened to make it more viable for golfing. You can do that with any language and it takes away from the spirit of the challenge if you say "Here's my Golfed Python code. Run it by replacing all the one-character keywords with the much more verbose keywords from regular Python and then executing that".

Chris Jester-Young

@JasonC Come on, you know what I mean. I deliberately take a laissez-faire approach to moderation. You don't have to like it, but there are 2 other mods (and maybe more, if we get Doorknob or someone else to sign up) here you can appeal to if you are really that displeased.

Doorknob

@undergroundmonorail That sounds catastrophic for Mathematica. :P

Chris Jester-Young

1:18 AM

I would say that the other mods here also take a similarly laissez-faire style.

Doorknob

"I shall shorten CellularAutomaton to C!"

undergroundmonorail

Exactly.

Geobits

Ditto Java. Typing int a = Integer.toString(args[0]); is ridiculous.

Chris Jester-Young

@JasonC For the lulz, you should have read my moderator nomination statement on SO for the year that I ran. :-)

Doorknob

Java is just terrible for golfing even if everything was one token. :P

undergroundmonorail

1:19 AM

I've changed my mind, actually. Even if a GTB compiler starts existing I'll continue downvoting answers in it because fuck that

ProgrammerDan

@Doorknob So true, doesn't stop me from trying :P

Doorknob

Yeah, the main preventation (did I just make up a word?) against those kinds of meh languages is the community's response

Chris Jester-Young

@undergroundmonorail Right, that's what goruby is. ;-)

Jason C

@ChrisJester-Young s/a laissez-faire/no ; and I will read it, what year was that?

undergroundmonorail

@ChrisJester-Young In that case, I'll downvote goruby too. :P

Chris Jester-Young

1:20 AM

@undergroundmonorail Good idea.

luser droog

@undergroundmonorail I'm not seeing now, either. But I half-recall seeing something. Maybe it was the ix2web thing.

Jason C

(And I know the other mods here take a similar style. That's why your users are still openly arguing about whether or not they want popcons in challenge comments instead of meta.)

Doorknob

Ah dear, whatever that "ix2web" gibberish was....

2

Chris Jester-Young

@JasonC stackoverflow.com/election/1#post-4730876

undergroundmonorail

@luserdroog I know that's been up for a while. I remember finding it funny that he responded to a comment complaining about the fact that ix2web "code" is literally meaningless AND a question about the answer he wrote, and he only responded to the second half

Jason C

1:22 AM

@ChrisJester-Young Why did you want me to read that? All the existing diamond mods thought you were joking...

@ChrisJester-Young And you didn't make the primaries... I'm not criticizing, I would not have made them either, but I'm confused as to why you wanted me to see this.

Doorknob

> For the lulz

Jason C

It is a funny post, which I appreciate. That doesn't really help the case though... it kind of rams home the point I was trying to make, no?

Geobits

@JasonC Look, I even agree with you on certain points, but the way you're trying to make your case isn't really helping.

Chris Jester-Young

@JasonC The first version of the nomination statement was a total joke: stackoverflow.com/posts/4730876/revisions

Geobits

When you're trying to implement change, you can be right or you can be effective, but those aren't always the same route.

Chris Jester-Young

1:26 AM

It was meant to be; I revised it to be much more serious after getting threats from SE staff (they were going to pull my entry if I didn't comply).

Jason C

@Geobits Yeah, I know, I won't pretend to be good at the "effective" part.

Geobits

(To clarify, "right" is subjective as hell)

Jason C

@ChrisJester-Young You still didn't make the primaries. To me that isn't a case against, but if we are consistent with your analogies to political voting systems the other day (which you found meaningful although I disagreed with) that seems to say something, according to you, no?

Geobits

Not much. It's really easy to not make the primaries on SO.

There are literally thousands of qualified people.

Jason C

@Geobits The primaries are filtered from the 55 nominations.

Doorknob

1:30 AM

So all attempts to divert the conversation have failed so far. I have only one choice left. How is GIF pronounced? Go! :P

Chris Jester-Young

@Doorknob The creator of GIF says it's pronounced as Jif, but I disagree. :-D

Doorknob

(hooray for instant flamewar-bait! :D)

Geobits

Jif, like peanut butter. Anything else is blasphemy.

Jason C

@Geobits And the point there, though, is Chris was coming down hard on my meta post using votes and analogies to politics as evidence; I don't quite understand ignoring that philosophy when it is no longer convenient.

undergroundmonorail

Language is descriptive. Not prescriptive. If people pronounce it the other way and the creator says that they're wrong, the creator is wrong.

Geobits

1:31 AM

@JasonC I know, I'm saying that competition there is fierce, so not making the primaries shouldn't translate to "this guy shouldn't ever be a mod on any SE site ever".

Chris Jester-Young

@JasonC I did not say that SO users liked a laissez-faire moderation style. I pointed to my post to say that my style is no surprise to anybody who appointed me as a mod here.

Jason C

@Geobits Oh. Yeah, well, I don't want to imply that extreme either.

Doorknob

@JasonC The point is just drop it, okay? I think this has been discussed to death enough. Could we stop fruitlessly arguing about this all day? :/

Jason C

@ChrisJester-Young Oh, OK. But whether it was or wasn't a surprise isn't really relevant.

Geobits

Again, J-I-F

Jason C

1:33 AM

@Doorknob For now we can drop it, only because I have cartoons to watch. But no, I will not drop it permanently (in the spirit of avoiding surprise).

Doorknob

Cartoons are more effective at instantly stopping discussion than Internet arguments? What has this world come to? :P

Jason C

@Geobits Sure, maybe if you also say "giraffe-ics".

Chris Jester-Young

@Doorknob Happy Tree Friends!

Jason C

@Doorknob PCG isn't really the crown jewel of the internet.

Geobits

@JasonC No, because I've said it that way since the 90's, long before anybody cared how it was pronounced.

Jason C

1:34 AM

@ChrisJester-Young Our arguments are going to extend into how much I hate HTF, despite being a lover of gratuitous gore.

Doorknob

silently celebrates derailing of conversation

Jason C

@Geobits Don't misunderstand. I also say JIF, and "giraffe-ics".

Chris Jester-Young

@JasonC Wow, you really do pick fights everywhere. ;-)

Jason C

@ChrisJester-Young You just happened to hit on 2 of the 3 things I am willing to fight about. 1. Moderators. 2. Happy Tree Friends. 3. Gratuitous product packaging.

Chris Jester-Young

@JasonC All right, all right. Now go enjoy your Happy Tree Friends. :-P

undergroundmonorail

1:36 AM

@JasonC you best watch your step, i have STRONG opinions about gratuitous product packaging :P

Jason C

@ChrisJester-Young And go enjoy ignoring your diamond. :-P

Doorknob

@JasonC Then maybe this Area 51 proposal might interest you :P

Chris Jester-Young

:-D

Jason C

@Doorknob NICE.

undergroundmonorail

I wish I wasn't so bad at SpaceChem.

luser droog

1:39 AM

@undergroundmonorail Yes it is very weird. I hope it's a language-barrier (!) issue, and not intransigence.

Jason C

@undergroundmonorail I DESTROY spacechem.

undergroundmonorail

I finally got to The End Of The Line and

I'm putting it off, really

luser droog

I posted a comment on the GTB page. "awaiting moderation"

undergroundmonorail

there's too many things to fit them all in my brain

Doorknob

@luserdroog Lol, what does it say?

Jason C

1:41 AM

@undergroundmonorail Yeah; it's a good thing that the game lets you save your progress (although I wish it let you save more than one attempt). Some levels can take hours of total time.

Chris Jester-Young

@luserdroog Link me.

luser droog

iX2Web does not appear to be available anywhere.
This makes all your GTB answers on codegolf.stackexchange.com untestable.
Can you make iX2Web available for download, or make the GTB compiler available in some other form (like an .exe?). Without this, most of your codegolf answers are BAD.

Doorknob

I like how BAD is capitalized. :D

luser droog

Maybe I should've done bold+italics.

Chris Jester-Young

@luserdroog Eww, don't turn into vzn. ;-)

Jason C

1:42 AM

@ChrisJester-Young Crappy "port this specific algorithm to your favorite tiny language" code-golf questions is the 4th thing I'd argue about, I suppose. :P

All right, now I really do have to go. Have a good evening.

Chris Jester-Young

\o

Doorknob

@JasonC Methinks we can all agree on those. ;)

Cya

luser droog

@ChrisJester-Young timtechsoftware.com/?page_id=1309

Chris Jester-Young

@luserdroog Oh, timtech. Heh. (Thanks for the link. At least I know it's not some kind of "moderation" I have to attend to.)

luser droog

My own "language for golfing" is coming along nicely. github.com/luser-dr00g/inca

Need to add floating-point numbers, somehow.

It's less eager to crash on syntax-errors than a week ago. :P

undergroundmonorail

1:47 AM

@luserdroog "The name "inca" was chosen for its obvious similarity to "incunabulum", as well as its obvious decomposition "In C, A", as well as the apparent similarity between array-structured data and the ancient Incan data-storage device, the quipu."

I object to both uses of the word "obvious".

Chris Jester-Young

Lol.

Doorknob

@undergroundmonorail I object to your lack of understanding of sarcasm ;)

undergroundmonorail

:P

luser droog

I suppose the first is unnecessary, and the second I can qualify "(to me)".

Chris Jester-Young

Sounds like a variant of GolfScript for Triple Nine Society and MathOverflow members. ;-)

undergroundmonorail

1:49 AM

4

A: ASCII-art videogame edition

Python 2.7 #!/bin/python2 a,b=[[78,20],[2,20,47,28],[5,20,40,27],[0,23,37,23],[2,21,14,28],[0,24,29,32],[2,22,21,40],[4,19,20,42],[8,14,13,49],[7,75],[6,66],[5,65],[3,58],[2,48],[2,33],[2,30],[2,28],[1,28],[1,28],[1,28],[1,28],[1,27],[1,27]],[] for l in a: c=' ' b.append([]) for i i...

Doorknob

Lol

luser droog

@ChrisJester-Young First I've heard of Triple Nine Society. ... If I can impress mathoverflow members, it certainly won't be by posting questions or answers there. :P

That shit's waaaaay over my head.

I can barely contribute on math.se!

Chris Jester-Young

Hahahahaha.

Ditto.

Still, I'm jealous of the low membership dues for TNS ($10/yr, vs $70/yr for American Mensa). I should do a test to see if I qualify.

luser droog

I think I took an IQ test in 1st grade (age 6) to get into the public schools' gifted program, but my mom would never tell me the score.

undergroundmonorail

I'm in sort of that weird middle ground where I feel like I could understand university-level math if it weren't for the stuff I'm missing between here and there

Chris Jester-Young

1:54 AM

I can't remember how much Mensa membership cost back when I lived in New Zealand, but it was less.

undergroundmonorail

The concepts make sense I just can't figure out how you get there

Geobits

@luserdroog That's about the right age to take the test. After that it's pretty much pointless :p

Chris Jester-Young

@undergroundmonorail Do a course in pure/theoretical maths. You'll be made to find all those missing steps. ;-)

@Geobits Oh, I dunno, I took my Mensa test at 24 and I was glad of it, if only because I actually have a social circle to hang out with. :-P

undergroundmonorail

@ChrisJester-Young Hopefully I'll get a chance between all the CS I want to take! :P

luser droog

@ChrisJester-Young A real-life social circle would be nice.

undergroundmonorail

1:57 AM

(For the record, I don't feel like it's too late for me to get all the steps I missed, I just haven't gotten there in the first place yet :P)

Geobits

I can see that (to join a group), but people who act as if the numbers mean more than they do annoy the crap out of me. (And I have a decent score)

It's like people over the age of 20 talking about their SAT scores (other than at certain interview scenarios)

Chris Jester-Young

@luserdroog Yes, it was nice, between the (tabletop) game night, the PigSigs (dining out at a new place once a month), annual gatherings, etc.

undergroundmonorail

It just occurred to me that I use ":P" way too much oh god i almost did it at the end of that sentence what's happening to me

Chris Jester-Young

@undergroundmonorail You can do what I tried to do, which was a triple major of CS+stats+pure maths.

undergroundmonorail

oh god

Doorknob

1:58 AM

I qualified in some Duke talent search to go on a 3-week camp in the summer. From the conversation I see, it's a good idea :D

Chris Jester-Young

Of course, I ended up having to drop the pure maths major because it was way over my head by senior year.

Doorknob

Yay for social circles, then!

Chris Jester-Young

@Doorknob So are you going to be at Duke? I live in the area.

luser droog

@undergroundmonorail You gotta switch it up from :) somehow. 3:)

Doorknob

@ChrisJester-Young No, Trinity university in Dallas. (My parents don't want me to go away too far apparently :P)

undergroundmonorail

1:59 AM

I suppose I could say xD... no I feel grooss now

Chris Jester-Young

@Doorknob Oh well. :-P

@undergroundmonorail I use emoticons all the time, with no shame.

luser droog

I'd love to use some of those Japanese smileys, but I don't have the patience to figure out how to type them.

Chris Jester-Young

@Geobits The people I hang out with in Mensa do not compare scores. Trust me on that one.

@luserdroog My phone comes with the iWnn emoji IME built-in.

Geobits

@ChrisJester-Young Right right, because they all know what I'm saying. I'm talking mainly about people on the outside.

Chris Jester-Young

@Geobits We actually have a life, or the ones I hang out with do, anyway.

luser droog

2:01 AM

I actually do not own a smart phone. I'm afraid.

Chris Jester-Young

@luserdroog Bummer.

Geobits

Most often when I hear someone talking about their IQ score, it's in the context of "I'm smart, so listen to me".

luser droog

It does seem to be hurting my job prospects, though.

Geobits

I guess that's the difference between smart and wise, though.

Chris Jester-Young

@Geobits The last time I remember talking about IQ score, it was in a discussion with my best friend about IQ testing, because that was the current topic of study for her psych degree.

undergroundmonorail

2:03 AM

Intelligence is knowing the tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in your fruit salad.

luser droog

I had an interview at Coolfire software, and I told them about my 20kloc Postscript interpreter in C, and they said "great! can you make an app?"

Chris Jester-Young

@luserdroog What, employers look down on you for not having a smartphone?

Geobits

@ChrisJester-Young In some jobs, yes.

luser droog

For not being part of the "app" scene.

Chris Jester-Young

@Geobits Whoa. Talk about discriminating against non-affluent people.

undergroundmonorail

2:03 AM

Chris Jester-Young

@luserdroog You sound like you need to apply to my company, instead. ;-) ;-) ;-)

Geobits

@ChrisJester-Young Many places won't accept anything but online applications, also. Not everyone has a library down the street.

Chris Jester-Young

@Geobits Yeah, that sounds like an accessibility issue, for sure.

undergroundmonorail

I've seen homeless people with smartphones because so often you need a phone number and internet access to get a job :/

Doorknob

Hooray; annoying Texas History homework finished :P

Geobits

2:06 AM

I'm not even talking about high-end jobs here. A friend tried to apply in person at Home Depot and they wouldn't let him.

Chris Jester-Young

@Doorknob Texas history is so controversial. :-P

Doorknob

@Geobits Wat. O_o

Chris Jester-Young

@Geobits Yeesh.

Geobits

Texas history? Hmm... Mexico, Alamo, Bush. Done.

Chris Jester-Young

@Geobits Don't forget JFK assassination.

Geobits

2:08 AM

Ah yes. Let's throw Waco into the mix as well.

Chris Jester-Young

@Doorknob But yeah. I hate to say it, but New Zealand history is probably more interesting. ;-)

/me is a New Zealander, obviously.

Geobits

I had to take Georgia history some years back. Texas can't be much more boring than that.

Doorknob

This current Texas History topic is extremely uninteresting. :P

US history next year will be much more interesting (and useful)

Chris Jester-Young

@Doorknob Only if they cover the Snowden revelations. ;-)

undergroundmonorail

Canadian history is pretty terrible. It might have been interesting if it wasn't for the fact that they whitewash the fuck out of everything.

"did you know canada didn't slavery" yeah okay

Geobits

2:11 AM

@undergroundmonorail What makes you think we don't do the same? ;)

Doorknob

@undergroundmonorail As if every single history textbook in the world doesn't? ;)

Chris Jester-Young

@Geobits By Georgia, do you mean .ge, or do you mean .ga.us?

undergroundmonorail

I don't have experience with any other country's history courses :P

Geobits

@ChrisJester-Young Unfortunately, .ga.us. I only lived there one damn year, and it had to be the year we had that class.

Chris Jester-Young

Oh dear.

Geobits

2:13 AM

Luckily, I've always been good at sleeping through class and acing easy tests.

undergroundmonorail

B)

luser droog

.ge history is probably fascinating. Mongols, Turks, Armenians, Greeks....

Chris Jester-Young

@Geobits Yeah, you probably just need to know that Coca-Cola and Georgia-Pacific own the whole of Georgia.

Geobits

And that half of it used to be underwater. I swear, half the book emphasized that in some way or another. "Oooooooh, behold the continental shelf!"

Chris Jester-Young

@luserdroog I have a friend who studied Georgian and frequently writes in it.

Maybe I can get them to come in here and write some. :-)

luser droog

2:18 AM

I can read Russian, but I don't think it would help. They're very different.

But I do love interesting-looking symbols.

Geobits

I can read rushin', too, but it makes it hard to see where I'm goin'.

(sorry)

luser droog

hence the new Apl kick.

@Geobits Reminds me of the old Arcade game Rushin' Attack.

Geobits

Yea, I'm a sucker for bad puns. I know I shouldn't be, but we all have our guilty pleasures.

luser droog

It's far less annoying then when they write the backwards R for a regular R in anything Russia-related. It takes me a very long time to figure what words I'm seeing.

s/then/than

Geobits

Wait, you mean putting a backwards R in something doesn't automatically translate it to Russian? I've been doing it all wrong...

Anyways, I'm out. Have to waste an hour watching TV before sleep.

luser droog

2:57 AM

With my widescreen laptop, I can watch tv on the left side and web-browse on the right side. :P

DoorknobChatbot

5:47 AM

New meta post! Is presenting a challenge with the intent of using the best answer in an open-source project okay?

DoorknobChatbot

7:22 AM

New meta post! Proposed question: ASCII art Edge detection

Peter Taylor

7:35 AM

@luserdroog So you don't know whether you are or not, but your mother had you tested?

@Geobits I have heard it said that Mensa membership is an intelligence test: if you join, you fail. But maybe that's an extrapolation based on the experiences of a minority.

@undergroundmonorail There are fruit salads which make good use of tomato. And I've eaten and enjoyed at least one salad which was mainly lettuce but whose other ingredients included strawberries.

@luserdroog I deliberately read that as ya. I also read И as I, not N. Strangely, though, I've never seen a Latin-alphabet brand try to use Ц as a U.

DoorknobChatbot

New post! Predict where he will go

luser droog

7:50 AM

@PeterTaylor She never told me the number, but I did get into the gifted program (for the short period I was in public schools).

@PeterTaylor I think I saw tseh used as U in that series about the Russian doctor with the Harry Potter guy.

I misremembered. But it's still a horrible thing to do to letters.

D Chouig Doctor's Iotebook. :P

Hmm. I wonder why Mel Brooks never did Bulgakov's Heart of a Dog. I suppose he was more into Chekhov.

I think that story would work well in the US, with some histrionic leading man.

Oh, wait. They did do it, didn't they. I think it had Rob Schneider.

Peter Taylor

8:38 AM

@luserdroog Wikipedia doesn't know anything about an English-language film adaptation.

I've never read any Bulgakov. Might propose Heart of a Dog to my book club.

luser droog

I've never read it, but I've got a vhs-tape of the 1988 film.

I was thinking of The Animal, with Rob Schneider. I suppose it's not a remake, but it borrows heavily (minus social commentary).

I had very short attention span before i discovered cigarettes, so I mostly read poetry in Russian.

Alexandr Blok, Marina Tsvetaeva, Osip Mandelstam.

Sergei Esenin, and of course Pasternak.

DoorknobChatbot

9:26 AM

New post! Good books in number theory and geometry for programming contests

DoorknobChatbot

9:39 AM

New meta post! Broaden the tips tag to cover categorical resources?

luser droog

11:06 AM

Ah, well. I can still feel good about advocating for a noob.

Alright. I'm up to the Star Trek TNG episode with Joe Piscapo.

Peter Taylor

11:34 AM

@luserdroog You don't have to accept an answer that quickly. Give it a couple of days to see whether anyone wants to present an alternative opinion.

luser droog

Hm. okay. It seemed mostly moot with the question gone. But I can add an explanation.

There. Even snuck in a Star Trek reference.

luser droog

11:58 AM

@PeterTaylor I should know that by now. In fact I recently said the very same thing.

Doorknob

12:28 PM

Posting new question now!

DoorknobChatbot

New post! Which is better - Emacs or Vim? (Google fight)

ProgramFOX

12:46 PM

@Doorknob I suggest to forbid the site googlefight.com because someone could fetch the results from that site.

Geobits

@ProgramFOX I looked at that just now. It would probably still be shorter to do it without googlefight, since they include a script to do it, no raw numbers available in the response from what I saw.

Unless I'm overlooking something trivial.

ProgramFOX

Hmm... I see what you mean. But someone might be able to figure out how to use it in a short way, so I wouldn't take the risk.

Doorknob

@ProgramFOX I'd give them credit for being clever enough to do that. ;)

ProgrammerDan

2:14 PM

I'm often amazed how quickly excellent answers to interesting challenges get posted -- 6 hours and 4 answers already, nearly all of high quality.

undergroundmonorail

I've thought of some improvements I could make to an answer I wrote ages ago that would save a couple bytes, but I don't want to bump the whole question up to the top again just because I could take like 5 characters out of my answer...

Peter Taylor

@undergroundmonorail Why not?

ProgrammerDan

@undergroundmonorail Just do it.

undergroundmonorail

Is that an okay thing to do? I'm not 100% used to the SE format (this is the first SE site I've used seriously) but on a lot of other sites doing something like that would be considered rude.

Geobits

Bump it

DoorknobChatbot

2:18 PM

New post! Recursive multidimensional array

Geobits

The worst that happens here is that someone sees an old challenge and tries it out for themselves.

undergroundmonorail

True

Anyone else getting a homework vibe from that question that just got posted? Seriously feels like homework to me.

I'm hesitant to say anything because most homework questions require a specific language, but

ProgrammerDan

It seems kinda of silly

in a homework-y way

and I can't imagine what would make it a good popularity contest

how can recursively initializing an array be popular?

Geobits

I could see it maybe as a golf... but still.

undergroundmonorail

even like, like

it's not an interesting challenge

"This is a popularity-contest, so keep your code small but readable!"

s/popularity-contest/homework problem/ and suddenly that sentence makes sense.

ProgrammerDan

2:23 PM

yeah

This would suddenly be popular if it was a code-trolling question

but clearly it's meant to be serious

undergroundmonorail

i forgot there's a time limit for editing. i said "even like, like" instead of "even then, like" and now i look stupid :P

ProgrammerDan

hehe

I feel a little bad, this guy has been here probably about as long as me, and this is his first attempt at a question ..

undergroundmonorail

I don't feel bad, my first question went through the sandbox...

That was weird, it double posted (or at least appeared to), but when I hit 'delete' both disappeared...

Probably the shitty school internet.

ProgrammerDan

2:39 PM

Meh, it's worse when they take this feedback seriously

it's like everyone assumes whatever they ask is golden. I don't get that.

seriously is the wrong word. When they take it as a personal attack.

undergroundmonorail

yeah

I just realized I can't do r=replace;'some string'.r(' ','\n') in python. :(

ProgrammerDan

:(

undergroundmonorail

2:55 PM

Alright cool, I took 5 characters off this answer (plus another one because I forgot to strip the leading newline last time)

It uses a nested exec to get around r=replace not working :D

ProgrammerDan

lol, gross :D

undergroundmonorail

Oh, it gets grosser :P

ProgrammerDan

Link?

undergroundmonorail

I uh

broke it somehow

working on that before I post it

:P

ProgrammerDan

lol!

undergroundmonorail

3:03 PM

I swear I was like "wait can i remove this character", tried it, and found out that I couldn't do that. So I put the character back. And it still doesn't work

ProgrammerDan

oh ... no

undergroundmonorail

On the bright size I realized how I could squeeze a few more bytes out of it

...Oh. OH.

I golfed it with the #!/bin/python2 shebang at the top, then took it out when it was time to count characters.

It's not a valid bash script. That's why it's failing.

ProgrammerDan

yes

yes that is why

undergroundmonorail

oops, i hit enter too early while doing the edit

i reverted it but i still feel shame

Peter Taylor

It's sometimes amazing how much you can save when you revisit an old program. The first code dissection I wrote up for my blog ended up going from 109 chars down to 65.

undergroundmonorail

3:29 PM

4

A: Brainf*ckish directions

Python 2.7 - 154 147 134 bytes l=r=p=0 q=";').replace('" exec"exec raw_input('q->','p+=r+1;r=0q<-','p-=l+1;l=0q>','r+=1;p+=1q<','l+=1;p-=1;')".replace('q',q) print p Serious changes have been made to the way this program works. I've removed the old explanation, which can still be found in this...

It's so gross and I love it

ProgrammerDan

grotesquely lovely :D

ProgrammerDan

3:57 PM

@undergroundmonorail Found a way to save 2 more characters.

That I will share once I figure out how post code.

l=r=p=0
exec"exec raw_input('%s->','p+=r+1;r=0%s<-','p-=l+1;l=0%s>','r+=1;p+=1%s<','l+=1;p-=1;')"%tuple([";').replace('"]*4)
print p

you get the idea.

Basically, use []*4, wrap it in tuple, and use %s replacements.

I couldn't figure out how to get rid of the explicit reference to tuple and get it to work, props if you can.

undergroundmonorail

4:59 PM

@ProgrammerDan Nice! I got a few more off the end with

exec"exec raw_input('%s->','p+=r+1;r=0%s<-','p-=l+1;l=0%s>','r+=1;p+=1%s<','l+=1;p-=1;')"%‌((";').replace('",)*4)

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