TRPG General Chat

Alex P

00:26

@Emrakul Probably fine in the context of this site. Though you might need to be careful about individual lines running over. That's why I'd default to quote blocks instead.

Also you can bold stuff in quote blocks and not code blocks, IIRC.

Alex P

03:46

Hey chat.

Magician

Mornin'

Alex P

04:02

Might be starting up our BW game again. It's on hiatus like a TV show. While we figure out what to do next. >.>

BESW

05:39

Tweets to Campaign By presents a Wild West setting for the Cars RPG. Rise up against your gas-powered overlord!

The automobile has conquered the deserts of Nevada. It has run out the burro and wagon train and has become master of the situation. KY1897

Tweeted by TweetsofOld on November 18, 2013 at 3:05 AM

I don't think this is a Tweet to Campaign By, but it's certainly an exotic weapon.

A knife with six blades radiating from a hub, pressed down by a handle, has been invented for cutting pies evenly in restaurants. MO1913

Tweeted by TweetsofOld on November 17, 2013 at 1:53 PM

Magician

06:01

Latest D&D Next column, in which Mearls discusses ability hierarchies based on their source, for purposes of balancing.

2

On the one hand, it's great that they're trying to do this systematically. On the other, in their attempts to make wizard not win at everything, they conclude that invisibility should be less useful than thief's stealth.

BESW

Hrm.

Magician

Mind you, I have no idea how it works in the latest playtest, and I've always hated stealth rules.

BESW

It looks like the logical extension of that weird "roles" post you linked a while back, where they couldn't figure out how to actually express "roles" in a consistently parallel way.

It makes sense to say that no non-stealth-focused class should be able to stealth as well as a stealth-focused class.

But they still don't know what the "caster" classes are actually supposed to be good at.

So they just wind up nerfing everything the casters can do which another class focuses on.

Magician

Which is everything.

BESW

Aye.

They're trying to take the class roles of 4e and re-invent them, by ignoring everything they learned about the subject in 4e.

I like their idea of priority ranking. It's a solid and achievable goal with good purpose.

But so long as they have a whole subset of classes whose priority they can't actually define in the same way they define priorities for the other classes...

It's things like this which make me skeptical about even trying to design a unique FiM system instead of just making a hack on an existing system.

If WotC's team of experts with at least a decade of experience in game design can't figure out this stuff...

Magician

06:10

@BESW They have a huge problem. They are designing D&D. As you say yourself, they have to satisfy so many external constraints that have nothing to do with actually making a game. You don't have to worry about making a product.

BESW

True.

This is the article on class roles/grouping that I mentioned earlier, for the reference of anyone else reading this.

Oh, and the specific example of invisibility is actually solid, I think.

A trained expert in stealth understands how to stay silent, avoid bumping into things, keep out of the way of guards, not leave footprints, and so forth.

Invisibility unaugmented by talent is actually more useful in combat than for sneaking.

So while it would aid a sneak in sneaking, by itself invisibility should fill a different niche altogether.

Magician

Here's the spell, for reference. I think it's from the penultimate playtest:
Invisibility
2nd-level
Duration: 1 hour
Touch a willing creature. The creature becomes invisible for the duration. The spell ends early if the creature attacks or casts a spell on anything other than itself. The spell also ends if you cast it again or if you use your action to end it.

BESW

That looks like a "get out of chaos free" spell.

Magician

Or get into places, much betterer than a stealth check can allow you to.

BESW

Although I have run into people who think "invisible" is the same as "intangible," and that's rather odd.

@Magician Meh. It still doesn't let you sneak silently past guards, or slip through locked doors, or not leave evidence of your passage.

Cast invisibility on a fighter in full plate and tell him he can do a jailbreak. Take bets on how long he lasts.

Magician

06:28

All true. But that's not a fair comparison. Take two characters with equal Dexterity and comparable sneaking-related backgrounds. One is a wizard, the other a Rogue. According to their logic, the rogue should be stealthier than the wizard using invisibility, due to his higher-rank class features.

I'm trying to get the latest playtest docs, but their system seems to have lost my password and is not sending me a reset one, because of reasons.

The penultimate playtest was the one without skills as such, so it's hard to compare.

BESW

06:40

> So I was standin' there, right? at me post? an' the shift was almos' over an' I was thinkin' about me wife's leftover shepherd pie, when I hears me a ghost!

> All tramping about an' clankin' of chains it walks right past the torches--but I sees not a thing, y'ken? Lit up as bright as day, the hallway was, but nary a cobweb floatin' in the breeze sees I. Well, you knows I'm a good God-fearin' man, an' me all tremblin' an' quakin' I ward the evil eye an' start a-prayin' the Hail Marys.

> An' the ghost, it rattles its way right past me an' up to the door! An' it sets in a-mumblin' an' a-grumblin' an' the clankin' an' rattlin' gets to be a horrible din, an' adds to that a scraperin' sound like a drunkard fittin' a key in a lock--

> An' "--'Enry," I says to meself, I says, "'Enry, you ain't never heard of no ghost what needs a key fer entry. They's all intransible an' the like, an' 'Enry," I tells meself all logical-like, "that there ghost ain't intransible and that means it ain't no ghost! You've been 'oodwinked, 'Enry, you 'ave."

> So I stops me prayerin' an' me tremblin' an' I draws me sword an' I takes a swing at the ghost afore the door. I don't connect wi' anythin', but it lets out an 'orrible yell, like, an' a great ring of keys drops to the flagstones! "That cinches it, 'Enry," I says to meself, "time to raise the alarum!" An' so I do.

> An' that, George me boy, is why you just saw the Cap'n of the Guard 'imself buy me a great bloody pint of the best stuff in the house.

user61230

@BESW Beautiful.

BESW

06:57

Thank you.

Alex P

@BESW Well, in "old-school" terms, I think that'd be mainly decided by whether he narrated a trick to overcome it. Like walking right next to a couple of armored guards so they think it's just their own clanging around.

@Magician So, how do they define what used to be roles vs. power source in 4e? What I mean is, is "being an archer" a WHAT or a HOW?

BESW

@AlexP They can't make up their minds, but they don't know it.

Alex P

I mean, the problem with LFQW isn't that the fighter is worse at "fighting" than the wizard. It's that "casting spells" is defined in a way that makes "fighting" obsolete.

BESW

@AlexP One hopes that the idea of specialties in D&D Next would obviate the ability to use unjustified narrative tricks to replace existing mechanical features.

Alex P

@BESW "Unjustified?"

BESW

07:10

Tricks like you described are misdirection which ought to fall under the umbrella of something like "stealth" or "bluff."

Knowing how to do that without anything explaining how you know is unjustified. It's a less obvious version of "my character invents gunpowder in an afternoon."

Due to the nature of skills and class features, the D&D system assumes incompetence until proven otherwise.

Alex P

Skills are not "old-school."

Ditto class features, really.

BESW

But I'm not talking about old school.

I'm saying that in D&D Next it would be unjustified.

Applying the "old school" strategy of using player knowledge (stealth techniques, or making gunpowder, or anything else) to narrate character choices subverts a system which uses skills or features to define character knowledge.

Alex P

Do DDN characters have skills?

besides "lore"

BESW

Sometimes!

But it's clear that even if skills don't make the final cut, class features will take their place in this context.

Alex P

07:27

The class features I've seen all seem to be variations on "hit stuff."

(I'm not saying DDN is some magical OSR game in disguise.)

Just, I dunno, it really doesn't seem like the kind of game you can just play "off your character sheet" so far (although I guess you can just use ability checks for everything, and that is the intent??)

BESW

yeah, it's a bit hazy.

But going off the article which sparked this conversation: "a rogue who takes stealth options within the class shouldn’t be overshadowed by the invisibility spell."

Which means there will be stealth-based class features.

Alex P

Yes.

Though also note that the invisiblity spell is itself a lesser class feature, essentially.

Just not of the same status as "CLASS FEATURES."

BESW

They're making some kind of distinction, which is... interesting.

Alex P

Well, really they're distinguishing between "core shtick" and "little extras" (feats and spells).

Presumably little throw-away class features like D&D3.5's Thousand Faces would be in the latter category as well.

Avner Shahar-Kashtan

07:47

"You've earned the "Enthusiast" badger". That really sounds scary. I like my badgers sedate and sedentary.

Alex P

Why am I reading ENWorld? :/

BESW

08:03

Ursula Vernon holding two copies of the Digger Omnibus!

@AlexP A tragic lapse in judgement?

Alex P

@BESW Well, I found at least one post where someone actually understands what "narrativism" is, so I think I can go to bed now.

The previous one... wasn't even GDS dramatism, as "narrativism" is commonly used. It was, I dunno, nothing? Like narrativism is just the absence of detail or challenge.

BESW

Heheh. G'night.

Alex P

A thought, before I go:

I pretty much can't stand network-TV action/drama shows.

I don't really have a problem with "good guy" protagonists.

But network TV tends to do this thing where the protagonists are "good guys" who occasionally do ridiculous things, the morality of which is never in question.

Usually this goes hand-in-hand with being abject idiots.

BESW

You've seen my rants about Arrow, right?

Alex P

Yes.

Blacklist, also.

BESW

08:14

I think it's the 2010s version of the 90s antihero comics.

Alex P

Which is a terrible show except for about 3 minutes an episode of the supervillain anti-hero doing stuff without any of the law-enforcement people (like the protagonist) being involved.

BESW

(which were generally also massively idiotic, and one of the reasons I like the Azrael story line is that it mocked antiheroes mercilessly.)

Alex P

@BESW Azrael story in?

BESW

@AlexP The Batman comics.

Alex P

In comics especially, there is a lot to mock.

BESW

08:20

After Bane broke Batman's back, he was replaced by Azrael, pretending to be Batman, while Bruce Wayne recovered.

But Azrael went insane and became... well....

Alex P

He should really think about armor-plating his lower body as well.

BESW

I believe he eventually did.

He took out Bane, because he was willing to cross lines Batman wouldn't, including killing.

Eventually Bruce Wayne had to come back and kick his butt both physically and symbolically, to take the cowl back.

Alex P

I guess basically what I mean to say is that I can accept moral simplicity but you still have to be right. "Don't kick the puppy" as opposed to "Torture is okay because we have good intentions."

BESW

Agreed.

Avner Shahar-Kashtan

That's a central concept of the Kingdom Come comics as well.

BESW

08:31

It's hard to overlook when the writers seem to think that behavior is okay just because you're the hero, but unacceptable if you're the villain.

Avner Shahar-Kashtan

A newer, more violent breed of superheroes rises up, and the old guard gets pushed aside.

BESW

It's very D&D Morality.

Avner Shahar-Kashtan

One of them simply walks up to the Joker as he leaves the courthouse for yet another prison sentence at hte Arkham Asylum, and just shoots him in the face. And is hailed as a hero.

Superman can't deal with that, and leaves.

Alex P

I guess in some sense faux moral complexity is worse. Because you end up with some absolutely horrific stuff that wouldn't make it into simple-stupid stories.

::cough:: Dollhouse ::cough::

BESW

Heh.

I do wish Lloyd Alexander's approach to dealing with moral complexity was more acceptable to the mainstream.

Alex P

08:39

@BESW In the sense of "Black-and-white situations aren't really instructive morally. Having to choose between bad outcomes doesn't necessitate nihilism or relativism?"

BESW

Yes, but also that you can have characters whose feelings and motives are transparent without having the feelings and motives themselves be simple.

Alex P

Hmm, yes.

I think that's what I like about Kurt Sutter. His characters do lie to each other a bunch, because that's where a lot of the tension comes from. But generally they are wearing their hearts on their sleeves. They're just messy hearts.

Other aspects of his writing are sometimes pretty bad. But he really does write transparent complex characters.

BESW

Bryan Fuller does some similar stuff with hearts on sleeves.

Alex P

::looks::

I liked Pushing Daisies. I hate Hannibal.

BESW

I'm thinking Pushing Daisies and Wonderfalls, in particular.

Alex P

08:48

Yeah, I totally feel you with Pushing Daisies.

BESW

Dead Like Me was too smug with its mysteries to let its characters be transparent.

Alex P

And Voyager characters are too one-note for it to matter. ;)

BESW

I like Sonnenburg's interpretation of Janeway.

Alex P

Elaborate?

BESW

She's an insane, axe-crazy genocidal tyrant who delights in the pain and suffering of her crew and goes out of her way to bring misery to all she encounters.

Alex P

08:55

It's kinda true that the only time she seems to actually follow the rules is when doing so involves suffering and deprivation for her crew.

BESW

And she only recruits new people to her crew if they've tried to kill her or her crew.

Alex P

Did Neelix?

BESW

Wasn't he trying to sabotage them?

Alex P

I don't know.

It's been 15 years.

BESW

(At any rate, his cooking counts.)

If there's any evidence that Janeway delights in the suffering of her crew, it's that she let Neelix appoint himself chef and morale officer.

Alex P

09:01

I had a thought but forgot. Hmm, maybe this... The thing with opaque characters is that they're usually just muddled (writers trying harder to obscure than to reveal) or painfully transparent but don't go anywhere because they are "subtle."

BESW

I blame Lost and Stephen King in equal measure for making "pretend we have a clue what we're doing and invent it as we go" a legitimate mainstream writing technique.

And yes, one hallmark of that writing style is to have characters so opaque that even the actor doesn't seem sure what emotion he's supposed to be expressing in most scenes.

Alex P

I think Lost knew what it was doing, initially. Which is what everyone thought it was doing. So they tried to change streams and throw a bunch of confusing stuff at the audience so they could pretend that the Internet hadn't solved the big question after 6 episodes.

BESW

Yes, well, lacking the courage of your convictions is just as bad.

Alex P

Or after hearing the premise described for them by an ad, for that matter. >.>

BESW

If it's a good story and you can tell it well, it shouldn't matter if we see it coming.

Alex P

09:04

Yeah.

The cult of the twist ending.

BESW

I'm wondering if Haven is getting cancelled, because it's started revealing all sorts of Actual Facts.

Alex P

At this point you might want to hope that they do get cancelled. Because otherwise you'll end up with another X-Files or Babylon 5.

BESW

Heheh.

Poor B5.

Alex P

Its fifth season was... nothing.

All the B plots we had to cut from season 4 to make it wrap up nicely!

BESW

Aye.

Alex P

09:08

That said, I actually like the mid-season pivot a lot sometimes. My wife and I watch Vampire Diaries and the seasons we enjoyed most totally had plots resolved every 4-5 episodes.

Talking about that show recently, he hit upon a pattern. So, imagine two roads or streams or whatever. One veers wildly. The other meanders gently.

BESW

I have a fondness for British Brevity shows where each season is only a half-dozen episodes.

Alex P

The show works when the characters' motivations are meandering gently while the plot-plot -- their goals and actions, in the moment -- is all over the place due to constantly changing situations.

2

And it fails when it's set up the other way. The plot is fairly linear but the characters just make hyperbolic crazy emotional flip-flops all the time.

BESW

Old Who managed something similar with four and five times as many episodes, by stretching stories across multiples episodes but not having the stories connect to each other much.

Alex P

@BESW Broadchurch. It's like eight episodes. It's perfect.

Maybe they could cut about 1.5 episodes.

BESW

Ultraviolet comes to mind, as well.

(The BBC TV series, not the [shudder] film.)

Alex P

09:11

I think Broadchurch is just this kinda quiet unassuming masterpiece, in general.

"Oh, what's up? Nothing much. I'll just sit here and not draw attention to myself, while only being one of the best series about crime and the police and community and grieving ever ever."

Okay, I should actually sleep. Good night!

BESW

ttfn

BESW

11:44

It's always a little sad when someone posts a link to disprove your point, and the link contains proof of your point.

Zachiel

It's always a little sad when a thread you're writing in gets closed because both the OP and the necromancer in there are completely retard... uh, no, that's just my opinion on them, right.

The necro almost made me explode in a burst of profanities yesterday.
The argument is about D&D 3.5's arcane archer and how imbue arrow makes the shot itself a spell-like effect, thus preventing deflect arrows from working on it.

So, @BESW, what would your take on the argument be?

BESW

I'd have to look at the specific wording, but it certainly doesn't sound like it's RAI as I understand it.

Zachiel

It takes a standard action to cast the spell and fire the arrow.

The other guy argues that means that both casting the spell and firing the arrow are part of the SLA

And I'm all, hell, no, that's not what it's written

but "it's in the description of the SLA."

then again, he said it's not important who is right, because he could just use minor creation to make the arrow and, since "ranged attacks generated by spell effects can’t be deflected" it can't be blocked. If I assume the attack is not generated by a spell effect but the projectile is, then that makes Imbue Arrow work, because the attack is part of the SLA so it must be generated by it.

BESW

Ultimately, I think both Deflect Arrows and Imbue Arrow are poorly-written enough that it's impossible to say for sure.

Zachiel

Same thing I say, then I made an error. I said it was clearly evident that their intent was blocking physical projectiles.

And he was all "ah, yeah, do you read in the designers' mind now?"

an I was all "shut the **** up you ******* *******"

I'm easily flamebaited.

g2g now, be back later to read your eventual answer, ta ta.

BESW

12:00

ttfn

BESW

12:16

@user2971699 Hi!

You'll need to get 20+ rep to type in chat, but you're welcome to hang out and observe until then.

Kethryweryn

Hi there.

BESW

Hey.

What's new?

Kethryweryn

12:31

I (finally) watched the 6min Dr. Who

BESW

Cool. Any thoughts?

Kethryweryn

Yes : why aren't we the 23 already?

BESW

Hm?

23?

Kethryweryn

For the 50th anniversary episode

BESW

Oh, the 23rd. yes.

It's also the start of FiM season 4!

Kethryweryn

12:46

FiM ?

BESW

Friendship is Magic.

Kethryweryn

Ahem. Seems... nice ? :D

BESW

Heh.

It's a cartoon TV show.

My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic

My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic is an animated television series produced by Hasbro Studios in the United States (for scripts) and at DHX Media's studio located in Vancouver (for animation; formerly known as Studio B Productions). The series, which is based on Hasbro's My Little Pony line of toys and animated works, is intended for girls age 2 to 11 and is considered to be the fourth generation (G4) of the My Little Pony franchise, following earlier lines and television show tie-ins in the 1980s and 1990s. The series premiered on October 10, 2010, on The Hub, now known as Hub Netwo...

Kethryweryn

Well, I wish I was a 2 to 11 little girl, seems... nice :D

BESW

It's one of those cartoons that, between not talking down to its intended audience and having very high production and writing quality, is attractive beyond its target audience.

Kethryweryn

12:55

Hm.

Magician

13:29

Tweets to Campaign By presents an aggressive leveling plan:

5

NO SHAVE NOVEMBER. NO SKIN DECEMBER. NO PHYSICAL FORM JANUARY. NO LONGER CONSTRAINED BY THE CONCEPT OF TIME FEBRUARY.

Tweeted by TRIVIADEER on November 18, 2013 at 3:00 AM

BESW

I like it.

wax eagle

@Magician sounds like 4e PC level agressive :)

weren't you level 1 two days ago? yeah, but 30 second combats make for speedy leveling :)

BESW

#pcantics #ambition

Kethryweryn

13:57

Haha.

This twitter account is CRAZY.

Aaron

14:57

Good morning

Gots a question if anyone is active.

BESW

Hmmm?

Aaron

I want to make a huge hammer. Is there a material I can make the hammer out of that will make it hit like a huge hammer but be wielded like a large?

Pretty much I don't want to take the -2 to hit.

BESW

System?

Aaron

Pathfinder.

Mithral makes the weapon lighter but doesn't allow it to be used as a smaller size.

wax eagle

from a pure simulation aspect here, the problem is that a hammer's power comes in no small part because of weight and by extension, torque. Making a hammer hit harder means you have to do two things. 1. make the hammer's head heavier, and 2. make the hammer's handle laonger. Neither of these things can really be changed by changing the materials used

Alex P

15:09

It's true. Imagine a giant bludgeon made out of pool noodles.

BESW

Admittedly, "It's magic" can cover a multitude of physics sins.

Perhaps your weapon is imbued with a spirit of air that gives it greater speed on the swing.

Alex P

@BESW Though at that point it's likely to be a "magic" property, not a "special material" property.

BESW

Aye.

But I've seen 3.5 do weirder things with their special materials.

wax eagle

what might work, would be to start the weight low and have it slide to the end so the start of the swing is not as difficult, But that's a relatively difficult design problem and the weapon would not be particularly durable

(and prone to the hammer head flying off and killing someone other than the intended target)

it also robs a lot of torque from the swing.

Inbar Rose

@waxeagle Not entirely accurate.

If your hammer is aerodynamic (or rather - the more aerodynamic it is) the better acceleration, speed - and eventual damage you can do.

While also being easier to swing.

BESW

15:16

@waxeagle Actually, the idea of a mercury-filled chamber in the handle and head already exists.

wax eagle

@InbarRose true. though I'd anticipate that being rather...minimal

BESW

The mercury flows from the handle into the head as you swing.

Inbar Rose

Surprisingly it is not as minimal as you would think.

wax eagle

@BESW ah, that would do it.

Inbar Rose

I have a pillow which weighs 1kilo, if I were to swing it at you with all my might, it would do almost nothing to you - if I were to take a 1kilo metal rod and swing it at you with all my might - it does alot more damage.

Both with the same length and weight - the only different is the aerodynamics. the pillow has lots of resistance, the rod has much less.

A hammer made from a heavier material can be smaller and more aerodynamic

BESW

15:19

@InbarRose You make a good point, but there's another MAJOR difference: hardness.

Inbar Rose

same weight and same length but more aerodynamic = more damage.

Alex P

Hammer are already pretty small.

wax eagle

@BESW surface area of impact too.

Inbar Rose

As long as the hardness of the hammer is more than the object it is hitting - should not really be a problem.

BESW

@InbarRose You're comparing a pillow to a metal rod. The hardness of the two is significant.

wax eagle

15:21

the question though is does the damage come more from the material, the cross section or the aerodynamics?

Alex P

@waxeagle Momentum. :P

Also the way force is concentrated.

wax eagle

@AlexP right, doesn't that have a lot more to do with the severity of a hit than wind resistance?

Alex P

Air resistance just figures into how much you can accelerate something to impart it momentum.

AFAIK

wax eagle

@AlexP right, certainly it's a factor. Specially when said thing has a large cross section.

Alex P

Almost no weapons do.

wax eagle

15:26

and if you have two things with similar weights, the one with the best aerodynamics would be superior. The question though is by how much

@AlexP heh, cricket bats :)

Aaron

I think this is the only place I could ask about a hammer and a discussion of aerodynamics pops up because of the least aerodynamic weapon ever.

Alex P

@waxeagle I'd say "by A LOT, but mostly as relates to being able to move it effectively enough not to get killed"

BESW

Don't forget the area of the impact.

Alex P

@Aaron Hammers are plenty aerodynamic. They're a bit ponderous because of the weight distribution, but that's made up for by... the weight distribution.

Aaron

@AlexP I like how that looks but what is the point of the metal studs in the handle. That would weaken the handle wouldn't it?

BESW

15:38

That depends entirely on the structure of the handle and the nature of the studs.

I'm guessing they're holding the handle together.

If they're purely decorative, they might not actually penetrate the handle much.

Tweets to Campaign By needs volunteers for a series of entirely harmless tests.

A scientist announces that coffee is frequently the cause for divorce. Some coffee is capable of worse than that. LA1906

Tweeted by TweetsofOld on November 18, 2013 at 2:06 PM

Aaron

@BESW True I didn't think of that. It looked like a solid piece of wood but we might be viewing it from the wrong angle to accurately tell that.

BESW

I don't think any one of us has the training or experience to do anything more than speculate wildly about this topic, really.

Aaron

0

Q: Creating a defensive NPC warrior build

Our DM is sending us to war as generals of an army each of us leading a 100-200 man squad. I am building my squad around having a ridiculously high AC. I am equipping the squad with Full Plate +5 and tower shield +5 giving a +23 to AC from that. I have found a few feats such as: Coordinated De...

Inbar Rose

15:56

But 100-200 +5 Full plate and +5 tower shields are okay?

But you aren't sure if level 6 is okay?

Aaron

@InbarRose Yea I am rich

I am paying for the equipment.

Inbar Rose

They are "warriors" not "fighters" right?

Aaron

Yes the NPC class Warrior

Inbar Rose

Humans start with 1 feat, 1 feat at level 1... how many feats do they need?

Aaron

d20pfsrd.com/classes/npc-classes/warrior

BESW

15:59

So, here's a concept that started kicking around in my head: Gotham Grammar.

> Do not say "I have found Batman." You are usually better off using active, rather than passive, voice. Also, it is Batman who found you.

Inbar Rose

@Aaron - how many feats / what are the requirements of those feats?

Also - what about simple dodge?

Aaron

@InbarRose For the two I listed Coordinated defense can be taken 1st level and covering defense has to be at least 6th level due to bab requirement. d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/covering-defense-combat

Inbar Rose

So don't take that one.

You should include in your question that you have lots of money.

Aaron

@InbarRose I was just giving example of stuff I had found.

Inbar Rose

What level you are.. (if it is relevant) also - any restrictions that your GM has added.

Like - maximum 100,000 gold per soldier, soldier ECL can not exceed 3... whatever

Aaron

16:02

My level is 17. The restrictions are follow the rules.

Our dm goes by if it is within the rules go for it.

Inbar Rose

The normal rules for player armies is from the leadership feat.

Aaron

@InbarRose Ok that might be house ruled then.

Inbar Rose

d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/leadership---final

Aaron

all of our group has leadership feat.

It played a lot into why I am rich.

Inbar Rose

So that's why you have around 100 level 1 soldiers?

Aaron

16:04

@InbarRose No. Ok backstory time one moment please.

Our party is the ruler of a kingdom that is about to go to war. Our campaign is Greek based and we are ruling Crete and allied with Sparta, We are fighting Athens. Due to the fact we are ruling a kingdom we are going to have soldiers we have that are separate from what we get from leadership.

Inbar Rose

.. Okay

Cool.

So what about siege weapons / boats

That's also important

Aaron

That is my next step. Right now I am focusing on soldiers.

Inbar Rose

Okay then.

So - money is not an option - I assume where you get all the items is not a problem either? I mean - I am no expert in your game, but I assume that 200 full plate +5 don't usually just sit around in an armory.

Aaron

Right.

Inbar Rose

If money is no option - what about magical armor? or special materials?

Aaron

16:11

That miight be a little much depending on the cost. What do you have in mind?

Inbar Rose

You could equip your army with tons of tangefoot bags, they march into battle, throw them infront of them, then shoot arrows from behind their towershields at the enemy who are stuck.

Aaron

@InbarRose That is a good idea.

Inbar Rose

have them take point blank shot - and mighty bows.

Aaron

@InbarRose That would be the other PC squads.

Inbar Rose

Then you will be dealing lots of damage without being able to be damaged. Plus only ranged enemies will be able to attack your units since the enemy will be stuck in tanglefoot bags - meaning you will have partial cover from the tower shield so as well as your high AC also there will be a miss chance.

Aaron

16:14

brb.

Inbar Rose

Gear: Full plate +5 / tower shield +5 / mighty (+5) longbow +5 / longsword +5 / arrows (100) / tangefoot bag (10)

Perfect.

:)

Aaron

Ok. Could you put that as an answer please?

Inbar Rose

Sure.

Aaron

Also what is a mighty bow?

Inbar Rose

It adds str to damage

as long as within a certain range

point blank shot also adds attack bonus and damage within 30 feet.

Aaron

19:22

I can't find anything about the cost of a mighty bow compared to a regular bow. Is there a price difference?

Zachiel

20:26

@Aaron I don't know about PF but in 3.5 it was in the weapon description.

@Aaron d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/weapon-descriptions/…

Each point of Strength bonus granted by the bow adds 100 gp to its cost.

Aaron

@Zachiel So composite is mighty?

Zachiel

@Aaron to be mighty, it needs to be composite first

Aaron

@Zachiel Ok. Is mighty a enhancement or is it something else?

Zachiel

Something else.

Aaron

Ah. I couldn't find it anywhere so I think I will just use the regular composite bow.

Zachiel

20:38

mighty is a sub-version of the composite bows

To be true, mighty was the 3.5 name of the feature

Aaron

What does mighty do exactly?

It adds str?

Zachiel

exactly

Aaron

composite already does that right?

Zachiel

no. Composite just improves range. You then must "buy" the possibility to add a maximum amount of str

that was called mighty in 3.5

in PF it's just a nameless option for composite bows

How much adding a +1 of str costs depends on the bow. For longbows it's 100 gp

so if you want a bow that accepts a +2 str bonus you need to pay for a composite bow plus 200 gp

It then works the same way as max dex for armors.

but if you happen to have less str you get penalties to hit

Aaron

21:03

@Zachiel I can buy armor with improved dex without enchantments?

Metool

21:17

> All Iggy knew was that God gave him more-than-Godlike skills in murder, and that was what Iggy planned to do.

Children of the Sandler, a poorly-run Children of the Sun game.

Zachiel

21:48

@Aaron No, I mean that, just like armors have a maximum dex and it doesn't matter if you have more, composite bows have a max strenght.

Aaron

@Zachiel Ah. Thanks.

user61230

23:10

I wonder how useful a Fate Android app would be

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