The Whiteboard

12:01 AM

for sure? it has less lateral reinforcements than vertical but are you sure this isn't referring to a stiff load which would brace itself against the strong points

user41796

either way. .6g is a decent amount of force. Although I ought to look up the units for "g" in this case.

user41796

It's per container… So I don't quite follow what you're suggesting

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 yeah it is but... I'm still not totally convinced that means .6g directly against the side and not the braced supporting points

think about water weight against it is what I'm talking about

strong support points to nothing to brace the weakest point in the structure against water

user41796

Erm…. If it can take ~424,000 lbs sitting on top of it, I'm pretty dang sure the sides are going to be stiff enough for your purposes

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 again that's on top of it's supported points; stacked containers put almost all of the weight on the corner points which have vertical reinforcement

user41796

12:04 AM

Are we back to your drunk driver careening off of the road use case?

Jimmy Hoffa

(I agree it most probably is more than capable of handling what I'm talking about... still one of those you want to be sure because the weight dirt exerts upon a buried structure is surprisingly significant)

@GlenH7 No, burying

@GlenH7 I have no doubt it could stop a driver careening off of the road

that impact merely needs to be absorbed by it, it would surely dent the thing but it would do a lot more to the car including halting it from entering my premises

user41796

ok, I see what you're saying. It's the dirt on top that's the greatest concern. The lateral pressures from water / dirt on the side won't be that much, I don't think.

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 The lateral pressure's there, but it's probably less than I'm thinking about... I think I'm recalling having read about buried domes where lateral is angled

maine.gov/mdot/technicalpubs/documents/pdf/brgdg/…

maybe there's somethign in there...

> How Much Pressure
Sideways soil pressure increases with depth. A 9-foot basement wall experiences 50 percent more lateral pressure than an 8-foot wall, while a 10-foot wall must resist twice the pressure of an 8-foot wall. The zone of greatest inward-pushing lateral stress is about halfway up the basement wall.

From: ehow.com/info_12182531_basement-walls-soil-pressure.html

That's right, the lateral pressure is significant because all of the weight of soil pushing down on soil adjacent to the buried wall causes the soil below it to try and spread out, that spreading force is barred against your buried structure laterally (as well as the top soil, but I'm less concerned because you need bury one of these minimally)

user41796

That's true - it's the equivalent effect of going deeper into the ocean.

Jimmy Hoffa

residentialshippingcontainerprimer.com/…

user41796

12:16 AM

> Side Wall Lateral Load of the shipping container 235 psf

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 Right I just had to remind myself the mechanics of it so remember why I held the belief that buried structures have non-trivial lateral loads they're dealing with

user41796

there you go

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 I don't understand what I'm looking at there.. any way it's time to head home

user41796

lol

user41796

The maine article you linked isn't terribly helpful as it's a) for arches and b) for partially submerged structures. And you're wanting fully submerged (buried).

user41796

12:20 AM

This may be of more interest: arch.umd.edu/Tech/Tech_III/Lectures/…

user41796

And this one is slightly more interesting (to you) concrete.org/tkc/documents/…

psr

@enderland "Yes, I restarted my computer. I restarted all my computers. My neighbor doesn't like me so I killed him and restarted his computers too. Can you please move to the next step in your script now?"

user41796

@psr "Please bear with me and follow along with each step as I explain it."

psr

@GlenH7 I wonder if anyone has replaced tier 1 tech support with interactive voice scripts that pretend to be human tier 1 tech support? If they always follow an algorithm exactly, it really wouldn't matter much.

Jimmy Hoffa

Let's assume for a moment it would buckle in the middle, how's this bracing approach sound: strong bars perhaps a foot from the top, like 5" wide exerting outward pressure on the walls, then maybe 3" from the top above the bars pulling the sides towards each other causing leverage against the bar to pull the wall taught increasing tensel strength against buckling

user41796

12:31 AM

@psr I have wondered the same. Voice tech is at a point to where they could do that. Replace Level 1 with Level 0.

Jimmy Hoffa

That way you don't need to put bracing in the middle which would be obstructive to usable space

user41796

@JimmyHoffa "it depends"

Jimmy Hoffa

Cables pulling, missed the word cables

user41796

The second link I gave goes into a number of examples although he's using a 15' depth.

user41796

I didn't really dig into it. If it's something you're truly interested in, I would want to hire a structural engineer anyway. You would likely need to pull a permit to bury the thing, and you'll need something official backing you to show it won't fail catastrophically.

user41796

12:35 AM

At first blush, it doesn't appear completely ludicrous though.

Jimmy Hoffa

I'm only as serious as it's a fun thought exercise :)

user41796

I think if I were really wanting to go down that route, I would build an exoskeleton around the container to divert the pressures.

Jimmy Hoffa

How do you divert pressure from something behaving like a liquid?

user41796

@JimmyHoffa 2x4's & plywood. :-) Here's an article partly explaining why it's a bad idea: graywolfsurvival.com/2625/… The rust & lateral forces issues are biggies.

Jimmy Hoffa

Ah so the lateral pressure would be a problem

user41796

12:44 AM

@JimmyHoffa That's what that guy is saying. He doesn't go into numbers, so I took his rant with a grain of salt. The water table is a concern, although perhaps not in your neck of the woods. Digging down though… That may be more of a challenge for you.

Jimmy Hoffa

Yeah digging down is very problematic here, the water table would be no concern at all though our soil is very hard and surely not light

I got it! Prestressed concrete panels fit to the sides would distribute the lateral pressures to the reinforced corners where the pressure can be supported

The nice thing about burying the container is it removes the insulation concerns of an above ground one

Normal insulation would completely be fine though you now have a ventilation problem

gnat

7:10 AM

thanks for expanding @bobson - that's what I meant. Programmers is about conceptual questions and I expect answers to explain things. Vomiting code dumps instead of explanation is like... like copying code from IDE to whiteboard: it may look familiar and even sometimes be understandable, but it feels weird... just weird. Whiteboard doesn't have compiler — gnat 24 secs ago

even at SO, usefulness of code-only is under suspect, their quality filter plainly rejects these

18

A: Is there any benefit to allowing code-only answers while blocking code-only questions?

Code-only answers fall under "Very Low Quality" for me and are candidates for deletion*. This extends from my belief that "self-documenting code" is a myth. Code can only tell you the how, it doesn't tell you the why. That's what you need comments for. On Stack Exchange, the how is important, ...

Yannis Rizos

9:55 AM

Hey @maple_shaft congrats! I know you've told us before, but I... forgot (getting older, I guess). Boy or girl?

gnat

12:46 PM

free spam flags...

-2

A: Why do HDFS clusters have only a single NameNode?

It was nice information it was very useful for me as well as useful for online Hadoop training learners.thanks for providing this valuable information.

same at SO...

-2

A: Hadoop cluster and MapReduce logic

It was nice information it was very useful for me as well as useful for online Hadoop training learners.thanks for providing this valuable information.

-2

A: Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: org/apache/hadoop/util/PlatformName

It was nice information it was very useful for me as well as useful for online Hadoop training learners.thanks for providing this valuable information.

Limbo Exile

1:03 PM

Hello, community! Somewhere in the F.A.Q. I read that if a question doesn't fit to SE format, it is possible to seek for advice in chat rooms. Could someone explain me the procedure, please? I am a little disoriented.

gnat

@LimboExile it's simple, you just shoot your question and wait for replies

programmers.stackexchange.com/help/privileges/chat

What is chat?

All sites have a real time web chat component, or as we like to call it, the "third place".

The third place is a term used in the concept of community building to refer to social surroundings separate from the two usual social environments of home and the workplace. In his influential book The Great Good Place, Ray Oldenburg argues that third places are important for civil society, democracy, civic engagement, and establishing feelings of a sense of place.

Most needed are those ‘third places’ which lend a public balance to the increased privatization of home life. Third pla…

Limbo Exile

@gnat Thanks, I thought so, but I hesitated. It seemed a little awkward to ask a question out of the blue :)

Has anyone been in a situation where he had to convince a client that the documentation he (developer/engineer) wrote for the demanded software is exhaustive and covers all the topics, without leaving any possible problem or future risk untouched?

gnat

1:32 PM

@LimboExile one would better make a checklist in cases like that

4

Q: job handover checklist

I have resigned my old employer to start a new job, and I need to prepare a handover [documentation to be taken by some new employee that haven't arrived yet, and would be some weeks from when I go to when they fill the position again]. So what important points should I make sure to cover, I w...

and the first item in checklist would better be that documentation (including the very checklist) has been reviewed by someone else. Think of something like two-man rule / four-eyes principle...

Two-man rule

The two-man rule is a control mechanism designed to achieve a high level of security for especially critical material or operations. Under this rule all access and actions requires the presence of two authorized people at all times. Nuclear weapons Per US Air Force Instruction (AFI) 91-104, "The Two Person Concept" is designed to prevent accidental or malicious launch of nuclear weapons by a single individual. In the case of Minuteman missile launch crews, both operators must agree that the launch order is valid by comparing the authorization code in the launch order against a Sealed Aut...

Limbo Exile

@gnat I have some sort of a checklist. I had my documentation reviewed by another developer, but I guess my boss has trust issues (he has his reasons to have them). He wants some reference to compare, but composition of my documentation is too specific to the exact project it describes.

gnat

@LimboExile reference to compare would be ideal, I can understand this, especially given trust issues

maybe you are too focused on "specifics" of your project. Just find in the web 2-3 checklists from more or less authoritative sources, preferably for projects of different nature, and review your checklist against these - sort of verifying the list, on a best effort basis

visit MSO, look at the new top bar, fear the future!

105

Q: The new top bar is out on meta. Consider it a beta

We have rolled out our 95% completed top bar for feedback. Note: We are still adding a few final features, so if you have a request for a feature that is not there you might hold off on that for a day or two Yes, the bar is black1. Also give that a day or two to sink in. I also want to speci...

discussion featured global-inbox feedback top-bar

►

Limbo Exile

1:48 PM

@gnat Good advice to try to compare to authoritative sources. I have to note, though, this is not a handover. The development hasn't started yet. I documented the requirements and the architecture for someone else to develop.

gnat

@LimboExile that sounds like a handover to me. Handover of "the requirements and the architecture", isn't it

Limbo Exile

@gnat Maybe it is, I didn't consider this.

user41796

2:24 PM

@LimboExile Two thoughts - 1) your question is better answered here in chat as opposed to being on main. Potentially, it could go on The Workplace if it was oriented around the trust issues. @enderland - any thoughts on that? 2) I think your boss is going to have to say what he really expects to see and / or get over the fact that "the answer" won't have the lack of risk he's looking for.

user41796

Trust issues happen, often times with good reason. But architecture and requirements can vary so much from project to project that attempting to create a comprehensive checklist would be a Sisyphean task.

user41796

Mo' free spam flags:

user41796

-4

A: What do you suggest for cross platform apps, including web

The problem with cross-platform C# development is the presentation layer. Finally there is NOV - (www.nevron.com) - the first C# based cross-platform presentation layer.

enderland

@GlenH7 I'm not sure what the context here is :)

user41796

@enderland my bad - didn't realize you wouldn't have the context from the previous chat messages. Start here: programmers.stackexchange.com/a/218537/53019

enderland

2:39 PM

I think you probably mean a different context :)

though I cast a DV there :)

user41796

go for the spam flag too

user41796

I had hit "open in new tab" instead of "copy link" on that one. Here's the right one: chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/12186925#12186925

user41796

and it looks like Limbo is no longer in the chat room. But I would be curious to know if that would be on-topic for TW or not. So I can know for future cases whether to suggest it or not.

enderland

ahhh.

I'd think the "hwo to communicate this" part would be definitely an interesting questino

I suspect though the content of answers would focus quite heavily on the "what should the content of documentation be" rather than the process though

user41796

I dislike when a question has a broader, more interesting aspect and all the answers focus on the details that provided context to the question.

enderland

2:46 PM

there's a reason a lot of questions get edited heavily on workplace..

2

Q: Aggressive Edits

Background Today I aggressively edited this question: How can I respond to an uncomfortable working environment beside quitting? When I made the edit, it had no answers, a downvote, and a close vote. Had I not edited, I would have added another close vote and downvote. Here is my edit. After ...

discussion editing aggressive-edits

we always get people focusing on the details of their problems

ignoring the actual core problem

user41796

And I love when @Oded rolls through questions in the morning. He's really good about insta-closing the crap questions.

enderland

yeah he hits them on WP too

user41796

@enderland That's a really good question from jmac. And it's a hard balance. As an editor, you want to preserve the author's voice. As a site maintainer, you want to make sure the question is high quality which may require muting the author's voice.

enderland

jmac is a rockstar

gnat

not anything asker asks about, fits the SE Q&A model. Unsubstantiated rants don't — gnat 23 hours ago

gnat

3:01 PM

@GlenH7 I love that smell of napalm in the morning... it smells like... victory

►

user41796

3:16 PM

> So I wanted get practical knowledge more about - HTML5 , CSS4 , JAVA SCript , PHP and all - Can anyone suggest me which is best book for learning all these things to get a professionalism and accurate results

user41796

CSS4? I thought it was at version 3.

user41796

and I think a comprehensive book covering all of those would give the Knuth collection a run for the money on length.

user41796

3:28 PM

@gnat - I know it's going to be a good day when I get into a race with you to suggest duplicates.

gnat

@GlenH7 no race today - I am outta CVs (second day in the row!). Miss it to resurrect an apparently expired (but still reasonable) dupe suggestion:

Possible duplicate: programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/55692/… — Corbin March Apr 6 '11 at 20:31

Jimmy Hoffa

@gnat I don't see an expansion from bobson on that clojure answer ?

gnat

@JimmyHoffa I meant expansion of my prior comment...

I think what @gnat meant wasn't that you didn't explain the question, it was that your answer doesn't shed any new light on it. The OP already has "working" code in C++ he can barely follow. Adding working code in another language he doesn't use doesn't help, except from proving "Yes, it's doable". It's a little like answering "Do you know the time?" with "Yes" and not actually saying what the time is. — Bobson 18 hours ago

Jimmy Hoffa

@gnat o

@gnat I just had an idea... I should repost that Q on SE, and put that dude's code block answer (with citation) up and accept as answer. Free self repping off other people's work, plus shows the difference; that is acceptable on SE. Not on P.SE though

gnat

3:44 PM

@JimmyHoffa well even at SO an answer like that could be risky rep-wise. Some insist that code-only answers qualify as VLQ...

18

A: Is there any benefit to allowing code-only answers while blocking code-only questions?

Code-only answers fall under "Very Low Quality" for me and are candidates for deletion*. This extends from my belief that "self-documenting code" is a myth. Code can only tell you the how, it doesn't tell you the why. That's what you need comments for. On Stack Exchange, the how is important, ...

Jimmy Hoffa

I agree, but it's way more appropriate over there than here

user41796

@gnat - Something to ponder -- as we get converts from SO, we need to help them understand the differences between the sites. SO and it's FGITW syndrome encourage code only answers where the explanation should be "self-evident." Obviously, that's not what we want to see on P.SE

2

user41796

In this particular case, the answerer is ~1500 rep on SO, so not all that much. But I recall a similar cultural collision not too long ago with an SO convert who was also an SE employee.

user41796

Perhaps the dividing line in this case is because it was a non-trivial amount of code they put into their answer. So a better comment in this case would have been "Welcome to programmers. On SO, code only answers work due to the focused nature of the questions. On Programmers, we expect to see an explanation behind the code to show how it addresses the OP's question."

user55340

Hmm... programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/14570/… - I didn't realize Jeff was poking around P.SE as recently as June.

Phorce

3:53 PM

Hey guys =)

user55340

@Phorce 'ello

Phorce

How are you? :)

user41796

@MichaelT Yeah, I think he pokes his head in every now and then but probably not too often. He's moved on to bigger and greater things, right? ;-) Looking over his activity, it looks to be every couple of months he posts something.

user55340

Its friday, but I'm looking at QuickBooks integration points.

gnat

@MichaelT his profile says "seen Oct 14"

Phorce

3:56 PM

Aha yeahh it is! Friday night for me consists of programming, programming and more programming

user55340

@gnat Yep... but that question he deleted back in June. Thats one I don't see too often when looking since the great NPR shift.

gnat

@GlenH7 well my comments to this answer were less than stellar... softly speaking. "doesn't explain what is being asked", gimme a break. Blame Jimmy - checking his bright answer there against that code dump put me into berserk mode and made me loose control :)

user41796

@gnat You can always delete them. :-)

user41796

Yes, the other person read them and was a bit miffed. But others have stepped in and explained the miscommunication

user41796

I'd certainly be a hypocrite if I said I had never gone beserk in a comment or a vote-to-close. Or flag. Or ... you get the idea... <sigh>

Jimmy Hoffa

4:02 PM

@gnat I'll never forget that grunting sound the dude made when getting hurt like that...

gnat

@GlenH7 not now, that it became part of a chain that eventually led to a much better explanation given by Bobson. Let it stay to remind me how important is to stay cool no matter what

user41796

@gnat I can appreciate that. I also see deleting comments as saying "this was a temporal issue that's been resolved." Along with a potential mild mea culpa in there.

user41796

But I can flag them as obsolete if you'd like. :-)

user41796

@JimmyHoffa - your turn to go beserker.

user41796

-1

A: Is functional programming a superset of object oriented?

FP is a subset of OOP just because it imposes more restrictions in your code, just as OOP is a subset of procedural languages and as every paradigm is a subset of assembly language. These restrictions on what you can and cannot do are what made procedural language a success in its time, OOP a su...

user55340

4:09 PM

(@GlenH7 is just looking to get his flag count up... ;-)

user41796

@MichaelT guilty as charged

user55340

Hey, if it makes you more likely to be a mod... I'm all for it (means I'm less likely to be a mod).

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 ...my only berserker action there would be to cringe and delete the question

It's an interesting question and thought, but I'm really not sure it works...

user41796

I gotta come up with a new campaign platform though. Got a super-ping from Community. Told me I better lay off the smear campaign or I'd get suspended for so long that even Goma would get his account back before I did.

user41796

@JimmyHoffa Just saw who the OP was on that question...

Jimmy Hoffa

4:13 PM

@GlenH7 Community is a cold hard bitch with a gun and nothing to lose

user41796

Yeah, that was made pretty clear. <sigh>

Jimmy Hoffa

Thanks for your input, I hope you'll continue to participate here! But upon your reminding me of this question and reviewing this and the other answers I'm given to believe there's no way it could be authoritatively answered which makes it a bad question for the site, so I'm going to delete as such. Please don't take offense at this, we would very much appreciate more participants in the FP topic content here! — Jimmy Hoffa 6 secs ago

agh I can't delete it

I'm a damn fool

user41796

@JimmyHoffa You can still delete your comment and put a different one in place

user41796

FP is a subset of OOP is an asinine statement, IMO

Jimmy Hoffa

@gnat, @GlenH7, @MichaelT care to share delete votes to munge that Q? Or is it not as bad as I'm inclined to believe?

user41796

4:17 PM

I could see the question about superset. But definitely not a subset

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 Iduno, he backed it up with a logical argument, which is exactly what every other answer did to the question, which is a sign the question really isn't good

user41796

@JimmyHoffa (We) Can't delete unless it's closed. And I don't think it's as bad as you think

user55340

@JimmyHoffa If it was closed, I'd doubt we'd have enough to muster for it... the cost of deleting a question goes up with the sum of the rep.

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT curious

user41796

I think it's +1 delete votes per 10 up votes

user41796

4:18 PM

so that would take 5 delete votes? Or that evil community mod....

Jimmy Hoffa

@Oded...where are you.... come out come out wherever you are... Marco!

user55340

given +21 and +37, thats would be a few.

user55340

@GlenH7 Community doesn't delete anything with a positive rep.

gnat

@JimmyHoffa I'm out of all kind votes as of now, including ones to delete - discovered that just trying to cast delete vote on it :)

Jimmy Hoffa

@gnat Thanks for the effort

@WorldEngineer @YannisRizos do you think that question is fit for a munging from the site? programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/163432/…

user41796

4:19 PM

And again, FWIW, I don't think it should be closed or deleted. I'll protect it if you'd like. But that wouldn't have prevented today's answer either I don't think

user55340

I think it also caps at 10... +102 and +161 takes 10.

user41796

World, Yannis - this is the question: programmers.stackexchange.com/q/163432/53019

gnat

to avoid misunderstanding I was talking about a question recently brought to meta, a dupe of deleted one...

12

Q: What are some good programming exercises/projects to help me learn new languages?

Possible Duplicate: TODO list to play with a new programming language/framework/platform I love learning new programming languages but I often have a hard time coming up with exercises and project ideas to put what I read and learn into practice. There are plenty of simple "Hello World...

learning

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 I have nothing against today's answer, my problem is in the realization that every answer is basically opinion and hearsay

and that's the only kind of answer it can have

user55340

(FP is a religion!)

Jimmy Hoffa

4:20 PM

I just haven't looked back at that question in a long time

user41796

@gnat I was hoping some more delete votes would join mine.

user55340

user41796

74 more rep and I get another vote!

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT Which is sadly what many OOP people say to attack FP folk all the while ignorant that OOP is as well

gnat

@JimmyHoffa oh wait that one, I'd hesitate to del vote, answers are good content

user41796

4:22 PM

@JimmyHoffa - if you really want the community to weigh in on closing your question, give me the custom close reason text and I'll VTC it for you with that text.

Jimmy Hoffa

@gnat Really?

user55340

There's a lot of material in there that people would read and find useful.

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 Nothing custom about it, it's opinion based

gnat

@JimmyHoffa really. Except for one that was added today,

-1

A: Is functional programming a superset of object oriented?

FP is a subset of OOP just because it imposes more restrictions in your code, just as OOP is a subset of procedural languages and as every paradigm is a subset of assembly language. These restrictions on what you can and cannot do are what made procedural language a success in its time, OOP a su...

user55340

That is (to an extent) the litmus test for deletion votes.

user41796

4:23 PM

@JimmyHoffa good questions can have a degree of opinion to them. It's the expert experience we rely upon to form the answer.

Jimmy Hoffa

There, it got my vote for too opinion based. I'll let the review queue and community sort it out, if you guys think it's worth keeping then go ahead and do so. Perhaps at that point it should be locked as...historical lock? Gah it's not that old but it doesn't really deserve a lock due to activity

(I'm never going to hit 10k with this strategy)

user55340

What? CV's don't hinder your steps to 10k.

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT Fair enough, a CV isn't a deletion, and as you said it would take a lot of delete voters

user55340

I've tossed on a sympathy CV... though given its nature, I wouldn't be surprised if people attempt a reopen on it.

user41796

hasn't hit the queue yet...

user55340

4:27 PM

Btw, that ring of prime question just got a major rewrite.

user55340

Look at revision 5 - programmers.stackexchange.com/posts/218470/revisions

user41796

@MichaelT I'm so tempted to put a bounty on that answer. But that pushes me further away from my next delete vote. Ugh. Decisions.

user55340

@GlenH7 I'm gonna bounty that integer sequence one when I get a chance (needs to age before a bounty can be added).

user55340

@GlenH7 And consider - it encourages someone who can write well to continue to do so.

user41796

Where's Karl when you need him? He's got ridiculous amounts of rep and likes throwing it around...

user41796

4:34 PM

@JimmyHoffa - would you verify that the really long answer is correct before I put a bounty on it. I still don't really get the nuances of FP so I'm not the best at evaluating it.

gnat

@JimmyHoffa another thing to take into account is that deletion is harder to decide on. Much harder. You see, when I decide to vote down or close, I can focus strictly on the question, on the issues in it. To decide on deletion, I need to study the answers, all of them - that's typically much more complicated

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 this'll take a moment...

user55340

and... out of close votes.

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 eh, iduno. It's hard, there's two questions from the op, he glosses over the first one briskly of "Can this be done purely functionally", and then talks at length about his second question "How do you manage state and backtrack through it in a purely functional manner", the guy answers the first one basically saying "Yes it can be done purely functionally, this is how." but completely ignores the second one which is more intrinsic... It's a well written detailed answer though

gnat

why oh why git questions tend to attract crappy answers programmers.stackexchange.com/review/low-quality-posts/44689

-1

A: One or multiple git repository

If they're not sharing any code and have independent release cycles, put them in separate repositories.

Oct 25 at 18:27, by gnat

@MichaelT I was trying hard to abstain from commenting with something like "why so many brainless git posts at Programmers are so brainlessly upvoted"...

Jimmy Hoffa

4:43 PM

it has no inaccuracy, other than maybe this right here:

gnat

Nov 30 '12 at 18:11, by maple_shaft

@gnat What can I say... when it comes to cult followers like Git-roids, they simply can't help themselves but to proclaim their faith based beliefs loudly and as simply as possible, through any medium possible, rules, FAQ's and terms of service be damned

Jimmy Hoffa

> You could say that the backtracking happens with acc passed to helper-fn, but much more I'd like to think of this implementation of a pure function call that results in the self assembly of possible prime-rings through a series of recursive function calls.

he says himself he wouldn't call that backtracking but says you could call it that, I think he knows as well as I do: That really isn't backtracking at all, not even close, it's recursive generative filtering

Go ahead and give the bounty if you want to encourage the new user (and because you have plenty of rep anyway ya feck)

user41796

@JimmyHoffa Sounds like not quite worthy of a bounty then since it doesn't touch upon all the aspects of the question. But it's picked up quite a few upvotes, so he gets positive reinforcement that way.

Jimmy Hoffa

True, it was still like 1 before his edit earlier too wasn't it?

Good lesson for him: Block of code? No-rep. Large detailed explanation? Quick-rep.

gnat

@GlenH7 count an undownvote as an additional reinforcement :) check the vote split, it's +6:-0 now

enderland

4:48 PM

I shanmelessly upvoted that one too

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 want to delete this as obsolete now?

@user108745 - One of the big differences between StackOverflow and Programmers is an expectation of an explanation of the "why" behind an answer. I appreciate that you demonstrated the OP's question is answerable in a pure FP form. But a newbie to FP (like myself) will struggle to understand your answer without some commentary explaining it. Said another way, Programmers focuses on the concepts and understanding those more so than focusing on only code. Hopefully that helps explain the site differences a little better. — GlenH7 53 mins ago

user41796

@JimmyHoffa Dunno what you're talking about ....

gnat

@JimmyHoffa I don't think deletion is needed. Comments chain, along with revisions history, give a good perspective on how things went...

...and after SE implements the long needed feature, it'll start looking even better

101

Q: Hide trivial comments

If you look around the internet, you'll find that: 99.9 percent of comments are either spam, off-message or simply wasted electrons.—ithacaindy (Obviously part of the 0.1%.) Stack Exchange does not have that problem. Thanks to flagging, our spam and offensive comments have a half-life of m...

feature-request comments

This is... an absolutely awesome idea. — Undo Nov 6 at 5:02

user55340

Btw, Dr. Who fans - Mini episode: Night of the Doctor

user55340

►

Jimmy Hoffa

5:02 PM

@MichaelT Will have to pull this up at home tonight to watch with my wife...

user55340

@JimmyHoffa Yep, she'd kill you if you watched it before.

user41796

@MichaelT only if she knew

user55340

Btw, the doctor is Paul McGann.

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT So it's not the old greybeard they showed at the end last time?

They're replaying a doctor from the past?? That's awesome!

user55340

Oh, its even more awesome than you know yet.

gnat

5:06 PM

don't listen to @GlenH7 - feel free to do substantial edits as much as needed! As of now, your answer is good enough to warrant exception: if CW is ever triggered, simply ping me and I'll raise a flag or meta complaint to return it back to your ownership. Been there done that: 1, 2 — gnat 1 min ago

user41796

@gnat sure, sure. Create more work for the mods

user41796

Community told me it's got its eyes on you...

gnat

@GlenH7 when the post is worth it, I've got no mercy for mods. You'll learn it when you will get elected and get a hold on the stream of my flags :)

2563 moderator attention flags
1 waiting for review
2515 deemed helpful
45 declined
2 disputed

181 posts marked spam
181 deemed helpful

21 posts marked offensive
19 deemed helpful
2 declined

125 comments flagged
110 deemed helpful
15 declined

Jimmy Hoffa

> 21 posts marked offensive
> 19 deemed helpful
> 2 declined

Look, I agree he's offensive, but you can't expect @YannisRizos to just delete all of his posts, he's gotta decline some of those flags..

user41796

@gnat The majority of my flags come from comment flags.

user41796

5:14 PM

This one is gone now. programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/29531/… (10k+ link)

gnat

@GlenH7 majority of my flags most likely came from link-only answers query...

1

Q: Is there a way to run a SEDE query against an older Programmers data snapshot?

Is it possible to get results of a particular SEDE query executed against an older data snapshot? I am interested in these in order to perform sort of retrospective study. Query I would like to run is Marginal short answers with links. I would like to see results of this query executed against d...

support answer-quality data-explorer

user41796

@gnat I'll start trolling old questions in order to boost my comment flag count then

user41796

As a mod, I would probably get in trouble if I declined a flag with "Declined - flag explanation was insufficiently pithy. Try harder next time to be funnier."

user55340

Internet Oracle

The Internet Oracle (historically known as The Usenet Oracle) is an effort at collective humor in a pseudo-Socratic question-and-answer format. A user sends a question to the Oracle via e-mail, or the Internet Oracle website, and it is sent to another user when he/she has asked a question, or requested one to answer. This second user may then answer the question (or not; if it is not answered within 24 hours it is put back into the queue to be given to another user to answer). Meanwhile, the original questioner is also sent a question which he/she may choose to answer. All exchanges are ...

Jimmy Hoffa

So there was some hubbub over in JavaScript chat room on SO where they have a JavaScript run bot that greets folks and SE didn't like auto-greeting, some JS folks got their feelings hurt and decided they would make their own chat! What ensues is a thread of comments about the chat they'll create pretty funny reading, apparently most of javascript design and development involves choosing libraries to plug together (probably some patterns too!)

user55340

5:18 PM

> The Usenet Oracle has pondered your question deeply.
Your question was:
> Why is a cow?
And in response, thus spake the Oracle:
} Mu.

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT Usenet doesn't run on oracle dummy.

user55340

> Traditionally, questions to the Oracle open with a suitable grovel such as "High and Mighty Oracle, please answer my most humble question," although grovels are often very creative and can be very long, or even part of the question.

user55340

Maybe we should start doing this with flags for a bit... just to see what the mods do.

2

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT Which explains the syntax of PL/SQL! Badum-CH!

user41796

@JimmyHoffa Just did a lot of training on JavaScript. Yes, to be productive, you pick and choose across a lot of different libraries

Jimmy Hoffa

5:22 PM

@GlenH7 I know, it's still pretty funny though that there's not a single diagram or post of someone talking about how it'll actually be organized at all

user41796

"we just know"

Jimmy Hoffa

Will it be asynchronous? Real-time? Through a database? O nevermind, we have libraries we don't need to worry about things like that

enderland

paging @JimmyHoffa

0

Q: When You Have Both Options, When Functional and When OOP?

Like (I suspect) a lot of JS devs, I tend to start with intuition first and then come to sound principles/practice with experience informing study of the comp. sci stuff I never really had any form training in that I like to look into in my spare time. So, as I've come to understand more purely ...

object-oriented javascript functional-programming

user55340

Warning - non-productive friday lies beyond this link - cgi.cs.indiana.edu/~oracle/bestof.cgi?N=1476-1500

Jimmy Hoffa

@enderland Yep, got my CV.

@MichaelT The warning almost begs a click...

just makes me that much more curious

enderland

5:25 PM

Haha it's not that bad as I skimed it fine

but now I'm here. maybe that's still a problem :)

Jimmy Hoffa

@enderland It's on the cusp... it could be closed saved and reopened (maybe) but it's an awful lot like a poll question. Very opinion based. "What's a definitive list of things I should use FP for and things I should use OOP for?"

gnat

@JimmyHoffa do you know by the way that you can vote to close your own question? I "tested" that several times, works like a charm...

4

Q: Stack Overflow Careers Profile: migrate Reading List when doing "import linkedin"

background: Careers Profile: some usability observations for import linkedin feature implementation it would be nice to also import Reading List manual import of about dozen books was quite cumbersome to me

feature-request careers user-interface

Jimmy Hoffa

@gnat Yeah I CV'd mine earlier this morning

gnat

above closure even brought me a sympathy upvote along the way :)

Jimmy Hoffa

@enderland Look at the one answer that came in, it's a sign of what that question is asking for, a meme gif and some blubbery shit about "o Ya! I have an opinion too, let me share it wif u!!". That question wreaks of collider bait @gnat - enjoy. I should write an answer for collider rep... but it's a crap question

@Sparticus here ya go, perfect time for some wicked collider rep to get you that close-vote privilege programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/218558/…

@ErikReppen when it makes more sense. That's the only rule. Once you learn to do both of them - the choice usually becomes quite obvious. — Benjamin Gruenbaum 3 mins ago

That has to be the worst answer I've seen to a question in a long time

Q: "When I do do X, or Y?"
A: "When it makes more sense, duh!"
Q: "But, when is that?"
A: "O, don't worry, when you learn Le Majick Rocker-Starre skills and wear suspenders, u will know!"

user41796

5:36 PM

All gone now

user41796

> marked as duplicate by Jimmy Hoffa, Doc Brown, Robert Harvey, Matthew Flynn, GlenH7 1 min ago

Jimmy Hoffa

Oooo

I still hate bad question->dupe but it stops more crap answers like that one..

enderland

1 hour ago, by MichaelT

(FP is a religion!)

do any of you folks ever get paid overtime, I'm rather curious

user55340

@enderland Previous, yes. This one, salaried, no. Netapp, wasn't paid but if you put in heroic efforts you were sometimes given comp days.

Jimmy Hoffa

@enderland Only when I was a contractor

user41796

5:41 PM

Salaried with the technical ability to get paid for OT, but exceedingly unlikely.

user55340

And this can get in there too - dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/fairpay/fs17e_computer.pdf

enderland

huh. I'm currently able to get some paid OT (10 hours a week now) which is nice because it's a lot of money (lol) - but this is because my department (which is not programmers) is currently working a lot of it

user55340

> However, Section 13(a)(1) and Section 13(a)(17) of the FLSA provide an exemption from both minimum wage and overtime pay for computer systems analysts, computer programmers, software engineers, and other similarly skilled workers in the computer field who meet certain tests regarding their job duties and who are paid at least $455 per week on a salary basis or paid on an hourly basis, at a rate not less than $27.63 an hour.

Jimmy Hoffa

@enderland If you've nothing waiting at home for you do it. It was nice making OT when I was a contractor I won't lie...

enderland

@JimmyHoffa it's a mixed bag, honestly, it's still optional in some sense to me

user55340

5:42 PM

OT + absurd hours = lots of money

user41796

If I didn't have other priorities, I would consider it. Nothing wrong with banking that money for a lean time.

user55340

(working on something doing a 60h week... that paycheck was nearly double.

enderland

@GlenH7 that's exactly what I'm doing - my other priorities are flexible right now and I LOVE what I'm working on, anyways (definitely makes it a looot easier)

user41796

@enderland enjoy it while you can. There will be plenty of times later where the OT is expected and uncompensated.

user55340

Btw, at Taos (salaried contractors back in the early dot com boom), we got our OT as a bonus. Bonus was taxed at 50% - so if you worked OT, you got effectively 3/4 time pay.

user41796

5:44 PM

@MichaelT You got some of that back when you filed your taxes, right?

enderland

@MichaelT most places tax it like that, since OT pay is all effectively taxed at a marginal rate (which for most of us is probably 35% or so)

plus FICA, so at least 40-50%

user55340

@GlenH7 Nope. It mostly went poof - when people realized this, we worked it out with the client... "tell you what, I'll work 50h this week and 30h next week and we report it as 40h and 40h... I'll get more money, and you'll pay less money..."

gnat

@JimmyHoffa wow, that sort of answers makes me envy of TWP guys - they've got a stronger culture of handling these (this time though we did pretty well, too - 0:-2 in 10 minutes isn't bad)

5

Q: We need to downvote answers more (even mediocre ones)

I propose that: This site's core users MUST much more frequently downvote answers even if they are "only" mediocre or we are going to face a consistent decrease in quality because (each of these is expanded on at length below): All (or at least most) our questions are subjective Anyone can ...

discussion voting

I think this post could be cut down to Without downvotes on mediocre answers, there is no incentive to stop posting them — Chad Jan 17 at 19:05

enderland

@MichaelT what? that doesn't make any sense at all, bonus income and salaried income are the same on federal taxes

making $100/year and a $59900 bonus is the same as $60,000/year (assuming bonus isn't in stock options)

Jimmy Hoffa

@enderland VIVA LA FERRETATION!!

user55340

5:54 PM

> “The IRS defines supplemental wages as compensation paid in addition to the employee’s regular wages that includes, but is not limited to, severance or dismissal pay, vacation pay, back pay, bonuses, moving expenses, overtime, taxable fringe benefits, and commissions.”

user55340

> As such, bonuses (like other supplemental wages) are treated differently than ordinary wage or salary income. There are two ways of taxing bonuses: the percentage method and the aggregate method. Which method gets applied to your bonus? Let’s find out.

Jimmy Hoffa

user55340

> The IRS specifies a flat “supplemental rate” of 25%, meaning that any supplemental wages (including bonuses) should be taxed in that amount. If you receive a $5,000 bonus, under this rule, $1,250 (25% of $5,000) goes straight to the IRS. Using this approach, the amount of your bonus – whatever it is – is “singled out” from the rest of your income and taxed directly. Employers frequently choose the percentage method because it’s easy and mindless to tax the entire bonus at a uniform rate.

enderland

@MichaelT where is that from?

Jimmy Hoffa

....it's really, really, Friday.

user55340

5:55 PM

blog.turbotax.intuit.com/2011/12/09/…

enderland

@MichaelT that's only on the actual withholding on the bonus, though - not on how it is treated for your federal tax refund

user55340

►

enderland

(at least as I undersatnd it?)

user55340

@enderland I just remember it was a mess... and it was taxed heavily.

enderland

8

Q: Why does my bonus at year end get taxed at a different rate?

Every year when I get paid a bonus, almost half of the bonus gets withheld for income taxes. My normal paycheck is never taxed at that rate. How do I stop that from happening?

united-states taxes paycheck

user55340

5:57 PM

> Employees often complain that their bonus checks have seemingly been taxed at much higher rates than their ordinary income. Yet, as The Street shows us by way of example, this is actually an illusion:

user55340

So, it might just have been that impression.

enderland

right, because your paycheck is taxed at your average rate, but any bonus (or OT) income is taxed at your marginal rate (which is generally higher)

but withholding purposes generally means your bonus has a considerably higher withholding than your normal paycheck as a result

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT My wife misses hers every now and then. She used to have a few years ago... not sure if she has the guts for it now but I might get her one for xmas now that you mention it... this is a great idea!

always such a pain in the ass to come up with a xmas present

enderland

@JimmyHoffa you made your wife a peanut pool?

2

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