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user41796
2:21 AM
@JimmyHoffa Nah, not our unfriend. The SO account's age is a giveaway - it's been open for a year. That OP is just someone who doesn't know how to express their problem and gets argumentative with strangers who can't read their mind.
 
user55340
1:53 PM
Mod types...
 
user55340
2
A: Remove the [asp] tag or link the [asp] tag to either [asp-classic] or [asp.net]

MichaelTSo, the cleanup has been done. There are no questions tagged as asp. From Let's Ban the [ASP] Tag on StackOverflow! the next step would appear to be making it a tag synonym. From Stack Overflow a screen shot of http://stackoverflow.com/tags/synonyms Which is probably what we should have too...

 
user55340
Looks like a mod will have to do this... if we can get one's attention. — AnonJr 1 min ago
2
 
user55340
2:08 PM
@gnat another win for branching theory
 
user55340
I've accepted this answer as it will form the basis of changes we are going to make to our SCM. The links to Advanced SCM Branching Stratagies and the git-flow model have been particularly appreciated. We'll also try and invest in training to improve our developers understanding of what they do with HG. — imp25 2 hours ago
 
2:21 PM
@MichaelT yeah. Looks like role based approach makes it through all the artificial complications. Lately, I am using it myself at work to verify / justify branching changes - works like a charm
 
2:56 PM
@jozefg I think I might start playing on SO. it's not so FGITW as most of SO and it makes me think about stuff I like. good answer on that BNF->AST Q btw.
though much of it is way over my head heh
 
@JimmyHoffa only one way to change that ;)
 
@enderland Study galois fields furiously?
 
:)
 
In mathematics, a semigroupoid is a partial algebra which satisfies the axioms for a small category, except possibly for the requirement that there be an identity at each object. Semigroupoids generalise semigroups in the same way that small categories generalise monoids and groupoids generalise groups, and have applications in the structural theory of semigroups. Formally, a semigroupoid consists of: * a set of things called objects. * for every two objects A and B a set Mor(A,B) of things called morphisms from A to B. If f is in Mor(A,B), we write f : A → B. * for every three objects A, ...
..I'll get right on it, after I peel my brain off the cieling. I really wish I had studied more math.
stupid review audits grumble. got an audit in the review queue for a Q asking how to name something, close vote reason was "primarily opinion based", that made sense because naming is opinion based...
 
user55340
@JimmyHoffa Downvote it and close vote it out of spite!
 
3:06 PM
Will
 
user55340
@JimmyHoffa When I first read that title I thought it was the name of a dinosaur. The semisourpod or something like that.
 
user55340
It would be what attacks you if you use goto?
 
user55340
Neal Stephenson thinks it's cute to name his labels 'dengo'
2
 
MSO voting at its best
-5
A: Please stop showing review audits for suggested edits to Moderators

Emil VikströmModerators are expected to be able to easily tell the difference between obviously bad and good posts. You are more experienced than most in this regard, and also have a bigger responsibility of doing the right thing. I therefore think auditing moderators is just as useful as auditing any other ...

@Servy sure (did you forgot to add cliche votingisdifferentonmeta?) I merely vonder how it happen that upvoted senseless comments tend to stick with posts that appear downvoted without a clear reason — gnat 53 mins ago
 
I just pegged like 5 5th-close-vote-in-queue in a row
2 more! I am like the friggin avenger this morning!
 
user55340
3:14 PM
When I got in this morning, there were ~50 reopen reviews.
 
(The Friggin Avenger; second most well known SO superhero right after Skeet The Oracle)
@MichaelT I had 9 I think, walked right through those (pretty easy just checking the edit history)
huzzah another 5th vote
wth!!
 
user55340
Btw, if you feel like looking at old questions that might need a cleanup -
 
another close review audit; and it gives me a protected question! It's protected because it should be close voted!
I am on a serious roll with this 5th vote in a row shit, I have to look at my review history after i finish this to count them up, I just gave the death blow to a ton of questions..
All done, 10 of my 20 review queue votes this morning were the 5th vote. Crazy.
 
3:47 PM
hey cool, I think I can update my job title on the exchange server if I want
 
user55340
"Mountain Guru"
 
LOLOL
 
@gnat: Review audits are designed to catch robo-reviewers. The likelihood of a moderator being a robo-reviewer is pretty close to zero.
On Stack Overflow, any user above 10K or 20K should probably be exempt from review.
 
user55340
@RobertHarvey I've seen 10k users who haven't done a review before... I'm not sure that a 10k user should be exempt from audits.
 
But presumably with 10K they already understand how to review a suggested edit.
Audits are supposed to catch people gaming the system. I realize that they are also looked upon as a teaching aid, but they're not really adequate at accomplishing that mission, IMO.
 
user55340
3:56 PM
@RobertHarvey maybe suggested edits... but I don't see why that should be an exception for the other reviews.
 
In my opinion we're talking about two things here. We have one group of people who gain rep by answering questions. It may be one or two very high profile questions, or a ton of 2- upvote questions but the result is the same. High amount of rep. Then we have people who care about the quality of the site and want to add to it by reviewing questions to ensure that they are good. Some of us claim that these groups overlap but I'm not seeing the logic there
You can farm rep for many reasons other than wanting to help the site. You can do it for the shiny rep or to prove how smart you are or just because you like helping people, and only the last one is really on track with bettering the site overall
 
or, in other sites, people post lots of answers which get nearly no upvotes because they are not frequented tags....
 
@RobertHarvey sure (especially if you believe it's OK to keep the habit of not clicking the edited / close-voted post to see more context, like comments etc). While we're at it, what would be the likelihood of being robo reviewer for a regular user who passed few hundreds audits without a single failure?
I am a regular user, not a moderator. Iirc for past 3-4 months I passed few hundreds audits, failed none of them. I don't complain (except for audits that are bad / wrong design). What is that makes you so special compared to me? — gnat 2 hours ago
 
Like I said above, if you've demonstrated competence and community trust, you should be exempt from audits.
 
@gnat not everyone has done 10000 audits or however many you've done :P
 
4:03 PM
@RobertHarvey No wonder I get so damn many audits!
3
 
@RobertHarvey maybe. Thing is, that's not what the question is about isn't it?
@Servy I don't see any mention of such a "metric" in this feature request. The way it is stated now, it sounds as if we should just take for granted that moderators don't need audits. With all due respect, I don't buy this — gnat 2 hours ago
 
You should just take for granted that moderators don't need audits.
In other news, someday I'll learn how to use the chat UI properly.
 
user55340
Related reading...
 
user55340
> 2.) The second thing you have to accept: Members are different than users. A pattern will arise in which there is some group of users that cares more than average about the integrity and success of the group as a whole. And that becomes your core group, Art Kleiner's phrase for "the group within the group that matters most."
 
user55340
4:06 PM
Gnat will likely recognize the source quickly... its part of shirky.com/writings/group_enemy.html
 
@RobertHarvey -15/+10 at the question and +7/-10 at the answer don't make your statement compelling
 
That's because some people don't see a distinction between the core group and new users. They're all about fairness, @gnat.
They think everyone should be treated equally, even when it is clearly apparent that they are not equal.
 
user55340
@RobertHarvey its there, it was designed into the system.
 
user55340
> 3.) The third thing you need to accept: The core group has rights that trump individual rights in some situations. This pulls against the libertarian view that's quite common on the network, and it absolutely pulls against the one person/one vote notion. But you can see examples of how bad an idea voting is when citizenship is the same as ability to log in.
 
@RobertHarvey I see. This reminds me of something I already posted at MSO
the ways how core group maintain their inequality don't matter, right?
 
4:12 PM
#7 is the review audits that are shown to moderators.
@gnat: By way of illustration, let me ask you a question: is SE a free speech venue?
 
Kind of?
 
@RobertHarvey more of a free speech avenue, a street that runs from yes to no
 
@RobertHarvey I don't think it is
 
user55340
(ghads, you should have seen that post on MSO last night from the physics / philos guy...)
 
alternatively a street which I race down in my drive-by snipings
 
4:14 PM
@gnat Quite right. And why isn't it?
 
@RobertHarvey for the rules are set that way
 
The rules are just a means to an end.
What is the end?
 
user55340
@RobertHarvey as a MSO mod, can you find minitech's comment on the deleted post that I posted a comment link to philos.se?
 
@RobertHarvey Lots of wasted time on the interwebs, obv
 
@enderland That's a forum. :)
 
4:15 PM
@RobertHarvey The same as always, a pine box.
 
user55340
the one that ended with "you think this is on topic... or sane?"
 
@RobertHarvey whose "end", mine or that of SEI? I understand that I am here as long as I comply with their "end" but that doesn't mean I need to memorize / know their "end" (and I don't). I know mine, that's for sure, is it one you're asking about?
 
SE is the anti-forum. It seeks to preserve people's time, not waste it with inane conversation and half-assed answers to half-assed questions.
 
@RobertHarvey on that I agree
 
user55340
@RobertHarvey (thats what chat is for...)
 
4:17 PM
To do that, it has to treat posts unequally, favoring those that have the highest chance of a good outcome.
 
sounds like @JimmyHoffa's typical afternoon
 
if that's the "end" you refer to, okay let's use it I am fine with that
 
Showing review audits to a mod is a waste of time.
 
@RobertHarvey does this attitude also apply to users?
 
@enderland hopefully not. Kinda cold
 
4:19 PM
@enderland Not generally. We judge content, not people.
 
@RobertHarvey so is it to a user who passed few hundreds / 0, right. Go ahead, explain why their waste is more important / worth special treatment than mine. Or better yet, edit this into feature request, and I'll happily revert my vote (that is, if the explanation is compelling). This part is not what I take for granted
I am ready to comply with an unequal treatment, as long as it makes sense to me
 
I have no idea what you just said, but my stated principle is that, if a user has demonstrated with some confidence that they're not likely to be a robo-reviewer, showing them review audits is just a waste of time.
 
@gnat it's probably easier to code to just exclude mods rather than a heuristic calculation
 
I do not blindly vote for fairness
@RobertHarvey okay fine there is a feature request for just that, we're talking about different one, don't we?
38
Q: Stop bothering me with suggested edit review audits

GillesI have spent considerable time reviewing suggested edits. Less so lately, mainly because of the brokenness around improving, but more and more because those !*#^)(@^&#)@ audits are getting on my nerves. Now I've raised my share of complaints about bad reviewers, so I'm willing to admit that audi...

a different one:
5
Q: Please stop showing review audits for suggested edits to Moderators

SathyaPlease stop showing audits to Moderators. I'm not referring to all users, just Diamond Moderators. We see so much crap while cleaning, we don't need the extra round of crap just make the system go - "nyah, nyah, lookit this and reject so that the engine can go hurrrah!!!11" I mean really, havin...

 
Looks like Shog has been giving this some thought.
Hopefully you had the presence of mind to elect mods that are unlikely to be robo-reviewers.
In any case, I don't feel strongly about it one way or another. The audits occur infrequently enough that they don't generally trouble me.
I have failed at least one audit on Programmers.
 
4:27 PM
@RobertHarvey I have presence of mind to recall that mods can make mistakes, and get into series of these, just like regular users
 
@gnat There's an metric easily determined by code that determines a mod is a good reviewer. There isn't such a metric for you. Trying to limit audits for you, since it would be more complex than just checking an IsModerator flag, would both be a lot more work for developers, and have a much greater risk of also reducing or eliminating audits for users performing inappropriate behavior. — Servy 3 hours ago
 
16
Q: Reason for flags declined?

soandosI had ~20 flags declined, and I do not know why. In addition, I posted to the "Ask a SU mod" chatroom why and did not hear back (hence me posting here). Why were these flags declined? EDIT: As a response to Diago's answer (now gone, not sure why) I would say a few things: I appreciate the fac...

 
@RobertHarvey Presence of mind when electing mods? We got Yannis, if that tells you anything about the average state of mind on Programmers.
3
 
Shit. Forgot about Yannis. :)
2
 
@RobertHarvey Never a good idea.
 
4:29 PM
@gnat You'll never have perfect mods. Review audits won't change that.
 
user55340
I've missed seeing him in here... maybe he thought that making me and Jimmy room owners was a good idea and left us to our own devices.
 
@RobertHarvey and as Yannis can atest, neither will Tequila..
 
@RobertHarvey just explain how dropping these for moderators would deserve special treatment (as opposed to other request). That's all I need, really
@Servy I don't see any mention of such a "metric" in this feature request. The way it is stated now, it sounds as if we should just take for granted that moderators don't need audits. With all due respect, I don't buy this — gnat 3 hours ago
 
@JimmyHoffa idk man after a few shots of tequila even using haskell looks like a good idea
 
Well, hopefully I've already made the case that showing them to moderators is pointless. Implementation would be fairly trivial for mods.
The only compelling reason I can see for showing audits to mods is "living in the bed we are making for everyone else." It can be difficult to see what other users see without a good sock and an incognito window, because many things mods can see are turned off for ordinary users.
 
user55340
4:35 PM
@RobertHarvey Couldn't you still hit the review history and click on an unfinished review?
 
@RobertHarvey A sock and incognito mode? I'm a little worried about what functionality you're testing here...
 
It has no privileges, so it still can't see some things that other users see.
 
Like I'm gonna buy that story. It's probably designed to keep tabs on us. It sneaks into our ranks without alerting us to it's true purpose and then it strikes
 
Pshaw. Its underlying script is written in LOLCODE. How serious could it possibly be?
 
@RobertHarvey Funny, that looks oddly familiar. @JimmyHoffa could you shoot me that haskell tutorial link?
0
A: Is it safe to kill the [workplace] tag?

danielhanly.comI'd suggest it probably is safe. Many workplace based questions related to the industries SO serves are better suited on http://programmers.stackexchange.com/ where many of the users are in a better position to answer. workplace isn't programming specific, but it is a programmer's issue. SO is ...

burn it with fire.
(Or downvotes. Whichever really)
 
4:44 PM
You better not let Yannis see this answer. None of these questions are really appropriate for programmers. Some might be ok for The Workplace with some work, but all are too old to migrate — psubsee2003 1 min ago
 
Wow. Strait edit from programmers->workplace
@enderland that's your playground isnt it?
 
@Ampt some might say that, ha
Might as well drop this in here too then - meta.workplace.stackexchange.com/questions/1941/…
 
Go take a look at that answer and give some feedback
 
hmm looks like someone untagged all them or killed the tag?
 
user55340
Come on! SO shouldn't be using workplace as their toilet bowl... thats our dumping ground. (HHOS)
3
 
4:52 PM
Guess the problem is solved afterall.
 
5:05 PM
yeah, once people stop asking questions which show no effort or attempt to fit the site all problems will be solved here
 
@enderland I hear that's supposed to start this Thursday.
 
user55340
here being?
 
@enderland that's one of my favorite XKCDs. I couldn't tell you how many hours of my life I've spent on the phone with tech support that I will never get back
 
5:14 PM
@Ampt I know, trust me, I know.... :(
 
user55340
@Ampt The parody of tech support - the person on the other end of the phone is always an idiot.
 
I've taken to randomly saying "representative" on phone trees, most recognize that and send you to one
Not quite as cool as the XKCD, but still can be effective with customer support trees
 
user55340
@enderland Did you read that ISP page I linked?
 
@MichaelT yeah. haha. I would LOVE my company tech "support" to have a similar system
 
you can actually keep hitting 0 and the system has to let you talk to someone.... but it doesn't mean that you get to skip the wait. And usually you then have to give the person all the same info the system was attempting to get...
 
user55340
5:20 PM
@enderland I like how they obscure it from the 'mundanes'
 
But on the other hand, do you want to have to take every call yourself? Who answers the phones and whos the engineer
 
@Ampt simple, just give any engineer the ability to veto particular phone numbers from ever being able to use the shortcut
I like helping people who know what they are doing and are asking constructive questions (hi SE)
 
user55340
The places that do that would typically have everyone at that level. Its just a change to the 'handshake' to make it more effective.
 
user55340
They've got a script to follow, giving the code word means forget about the script the person has already done a fair bit of diagnostics themselves.
 
user55340
I one time had Speakeasy as my DSL host. I called up with a problem. I described the problem at the first question to the point were you could hear the mental click that threw out the script.
 
user55340
5:28 PM
At previous employers, one guy worked with delivery routing. The source for this frequently had him answer silly questions. I gave him soapui so he could test the webservice - and by giving the problem as "this request is giving this response, I expect that response" with xml it completely bypassed the front line of "reboot the machine" -- 'no, its production.'
 
yeah, well. we can all lament tech support together.. there should be an XKCD about that, make a tech support support group
 
Hi, I'm ampt and I've been on hold for 2 hours.
 
for example, I'm currently trying to figure out why some options aren't appearing and I'm pretty sure it'd be easier to talk with the product manufacturer or online forums than ask our internal help system
 
user55340
when I worked at SGI (as tech support) I had tech support calls from the NSA and people who had buttons for nuclear weapons...
 
I don't want to hear that.
 
user55340
5:36 PM
Oh... and porn sites too.
 
user55340
@JimmyHoffa haskell question inbound
 
user55340
0
Q: Why isn't `length` generic by default?

AegisHaskell often provides two versions of a given function f: f :: Int ... genericF :: Integral i => i ... There exist many standard library functions with those two versions: length, take, drop, etc. Quoting the description of genericLength: The genericLength function is an overloaded versi...

 
We have a haskell tag?
 
5:59 PM
@JimmyHoffa sorry, but I can't help myself. I love to hate on haskell
 
user41796
11
A: In hotness formula, discard answers when voting evidence indicates that these are not good data points

GlenH7Data to back the assertions Being an engineer, I have this crazy predisposition for having numbers to back assertions when making decisions. So I gathered some data, and I'm editing my answer to reflect what I found. Near the end of August 2013, I noticed a question that looked like it would r...

 
user41796
@gnat, @MichaelT, @JimmyHoffa, @Ampt - I finally got around to updating my answer and backed it with some numbers. Maybe that justifies some of the bonus points I got on that question.
 
wow. Great edit
 
user41796
@Ampt Thanks! And I would have had that in place a long time ago if it hadn't been for a silly work project that still isn't done. <sigh>
 
@GlenH7 we should form a club...
 
user55340
6:08 PM
> So please let the record show that engineers and their equations sometimes lead us to clearer discussions around change. :-)
 
user41796
@Ampt my project ended up blowing through the 8GB of RAM on my laptop. And yes, I had to shut everything else down just to get the application to stand up. I'm building an Amazon EC2 instance to run this app instead
 
Wow, quite the heavy discussion in the Tavern on the Meta. Apparently the C++ guys are a bunch of jerks
 
user41796
@Ampt All programmers can be jerks. But bit-twiddlers can be especially so. And yes, that's the pot calling the kettle black as I'm a proud twiddler.
 
@GlenH7 Some sort of data analysis going on? I'm having a hard time imagining using 8 gigs for something other than brute force processing of data
 
user55340
@MarkBooth Damned engineers and their "equations" :) Without a door analogy in that article, I wouldn't have a slightest idea what that critical damping means — gnat Aug 7 at 16:46
 
user55340
6:10 PM
@Ampt Are they referring to the them of the lounge by chance?
 
user41796
@Ampt more like a poorly formed construct with using some data. 4k items using lists with 36k entries of 20+ byte objects adds up really quick.
 
@GlenH7 I'd just be worried about burning through some cash with an EC2 instance if it burns through 8 gigs of RAM without problem
@MichaelT I'm not sure, just find it interesting that these people are allowed to act like that because they are "valued contributors"
just reeks of bureaucratic bullshit if you ask me, but thats just like, my opinion.
 
user41796
@Ampt Remember your comment from a few days back about engineers being expensive? One hour of my time buys a lot of EC2 time. High mem, XL instance is ~$1/hr.
 
@GlenH7 I forget master, I am but a lowly grasshopper intern
That and I spend all my money on alcohol and video games so I've got that going
 
user55340
@Ampt The lounge is probably the second most problematic chat room (the other being the bridge).
 
user41796
6:19 PM
@Ampt yeah, it's cheaper for us to have me set up an instance to handle this data migration than to just wait for it to complete on my workstation. It would take 16 - 24 hours total run time against my workstation. Ought to be faster on the EC2 instance.
 
@GlenH7 if it's not then you've got some serious problems
 
user41796
oh, it's distinctly possible that we do. The 3rd party tool that we're using is not performant in this particular use case.
 
@GlenH7 do you use EC2 a lot? I've never personally used it
just looked
 
user41796
@Ampt We use it pretty extensively, yes. I've done some degree of research into how to minimize total costs with it. The big advantage is that it decreases our overhead costs in procuring or maintaining physical equipment.
 
user41796
When I can spin up a 4 core, 32GB RAM system and install all the software we need within a day, that's a great savings versus trying purchase equipment or find space on some local vmware cluster (which we don't have).
 
6:28 PM
Oh I'm not saying that its costly by any means. The ability to have a supercomputer on demand is pretty awesome, it's just that I've never had a need where I've said "I need more power than I've got on hand"
and I don't do very compute intensive operations unless you count transcoding videos from mkv to mp4
 
user41796
We're pushing the limits of what our hardware can do locally, so we frequently reach out to EC2 instances. Part of that is because we're running VStudio, SQL Server, and goodness knows what else in one environment. Oh, and I'm running MongoDB too, but it's not too heavy
 
user41796
some of our stuff is pretty intensive. We long ago "outsourced" our monte-carlo calculations to EC2 instances.
 
Well if you need an intern to gather and assemble high powered computers for whatever reason..... hahaha
 
user55340
@Ampt I remember some 'long running' calculations... brute force "how many lattice paths are there that don't loop back" (the professor didn't agree with the published values that came from elegant math - to prove it wrong, you need to actually count them or find the flaw in the math - he was an experimentalist rather than a theoretician).
 
user55340
The last run of that job took about 1.5 years of crunching on a 486.
 
user55340
6:32 PM
(and the values went up exponentially as the size of the lattice went up)
 
Wow... 1.5 years without windows update crashing your system?
 
user41796
@MichaelT Was his hunch correct though?
 
@GlenH7 I hope so, that's quite the undertaking to prove yourself wrong...
I can usually do it in 5-10 seconds
AWwwwwwwww yeah. One of my projects had our scope cut back. It was desktop+server+android solution and is now just desktop+server
sucks that there's 1.5 years of work done on the android project but it was a pile of junk anyway so we aren't too dissapointed
 
@GlenH7 fantastic analysis, thank you! The point on relative effect looks very well taken. Mysticial will likely love how % Sum Answers makes an impact with 10% cut. I noticed a typo "deonminator" (ex-tester=always tester:) but that's minor
 
user41796
@gnat You're welcome, and my hope is that raw numbers like that will make SE a little bit more agreeable to considering the change. I wanted to put together some charts showing the change in growth but ran out of time for that.
 
user41796
6:38 PM
And thanks for calling out my typo. If it's not in an image, I'll go fix it.
 
@GlenH7 btw in the image with yellow marks, do these denote 10% cut?
 
user55340
@GlenH7 Looks to be so. Though it was more of a "publish this data and suggest the standard values are wrong" as an academic paper. It wasn't a big change in the values, but one. Its more along the lines (in academia) of supporting material for someone else to refine upon.
 
user41796
@gnat - they do. I thought about calling that out but was worried about how much text I was already spewing all over the wall. So I left it out
 
user41796
@MichaelT sounds like it was time well invested then. Kind of crazy how academia can feed on little things like that. But calling out faulty assumptions is an important role that academia fulfills
 
user55340
A very early version of the program to do the calculation was run pseudo-distributed on Apple ][+ machines. Each boot up disk had a different chunk of the problem. When the computer rebooted from disk, it ran the calculations. As soon as anyone hit a key, it checkpointed and ran the other program... and rebooted at the end.
 
user41796
6:42 PM
@MichaelT parallel computing FTW!
 
@GlenH7 use tooltips! stuff like [1]: http://i.stack.imgur.com/groIY.png "Raw basis of question" will do the magic for you. :) You can explain the marks in tooltip
 
user55340
After a few months, my father went through and collected all the data from the disks, and then did the calculations from it.
 
user41796
@gnat and now I've learned something for the day!
 
@MichaelT is there anything your father didnt do?
 
user55340
He's from the generation where you do everything rather than specialize...
 
6:44 PM
@GlenH7 thank goodness, let's wrap this up and go home then
 
user41796
I have a few more hours today, I'm afraid. Patching my EC2 instance then I need to bring over the data and the codebase to run the application
 
user55340
The computers of the 1970s and '80s were simpler - a hobbyist could make an interface card for it for $50 (I know one guy who made a custom 4 port modem controller for the Apple ][+ for a BBS). Now days, you can't make a card on your own for a PC as a hobbiest... or get into the works of USB without serious background in it.
 
user41796
@MichaelT That's true, and I think that's part of the appeal behind the RaspPi and Arduino movements
 
well USB supports speeds a little higher than your run of the mill modem so you've got to gain that performance from somewhere
 
@GlenH7 my room mate would say "jia you" Good luck :)
 
user55340
6:48 PM
@GlenH7 From a BBS I visited back in the day beeline.org/?view=c0a8000daa11ca
 
user55340
> The original Apple II computer's time would drift by several minutes per day. Mike Skroch (Vector Space) produced this 'game port' clock that helped keep time accurate for several years, by pressing the joystick button at a constant 60 Hz.
 
user41796
@MichaelT back before common / easily tapped GPS signals and when time clocks cost a literal fortune
 
When did the GPS satellites go up?
 
user41796
The Global Positioning System (GPS) is a space-based satellite navigation system that provides location and time information in all weather conditions, anywhere on or near the Earth where there is an unobstructed line of sight to four or more GPS satellites. The system provides critical capabilities to military, civil and commercial users around the world. It is maintained by the United States government and is freely accessible to anyone with a GPS receiver. The GPS project was developed in 1973 to overcome the limitations of previous navigation systems, integrating ideas from ...
 
user55340
Heh - his first phone bill beeline.org/?view=45817cd7115272 - note that is in 1986 dollars.
 
6:51 PM
> The first satellite was launched in 1989, and the 24th satellite was launched in 1994.
so literally before GPS
 
user55340
The point being, someone with a little bit of electrical engineering background could do things that worked on those machines. So being able to do "lots" represented a wide breadth of knowledge that didn't need to be too deep.
 
user55340
With minor amounts of 'reading the manual' one could transplant an engine from one make/model/year of car to another same make/same model/different year of car.
 
user55340
Not so much anymore.
 
7:27 PM
@MichaelT Bull, most people could easily put a CRV engine into another CRV, they just need to buy the robot that installs the engines. Lord knows people can't install those damn things.
 
user55340
@JimmyHoffa Another of those 'my parents' things... It was a 1973 honda civic. The body was rusting out (lots of salt on the roads back then), but the engine was still going. This was mid 80's IIRC. They found a 1978 honda civic that had no engine, but a good body. So push one up, unscrew everything, winch the engine up, push the car off, push the other one up, drop the engine in, reattach everything.
 
user55340
Doable by two people on a weekend with nothing more than knowing how to use associated hand tools and knowing the basics "gas goes in here".
 
To be fair, that's largely just because no one else lives in Wisconsin so you had to do lots of things yourselves, replace engines, build computers, mud the crevices between the logs in your walls, skin your dinner...
 
7:43 PM
... learn haskell, read more blogs....
 
@Ampt were you genuine earlier asking for that haskell tutorial link?
 
user55340
2 hours ago, by Ampt
@JimmyHoffa sorry, but I can't help myself. I love to hate on haskell
 
Ah, I've been in and out today
 
user55340
@Ampt You had it write its checkpoint data file out once an hour and read that when it started up...
 
@Ampt good; you'll make a great minion of the many writing garbage code keeping my performance reviews high :)
 
user55340
8:05 PM
Btw, Shog has weighed in on the edit review for mods thing..
 
user55340
5
A: Please stop showing review audits for suggested edits to Moderators

Shog9I'm sure you've never shortchanged an edit review, and could be made except from audits with no dire consequences. ...But there are 359 other diamond moderators on the network. Some of them have considerably less experience. Some of them handle a lot more reviews. All of them are human, and liab...

 
user55340
(and for fun, a Yannis post too)
 
user55340
6
A: Please stop showing review audits for suggested edits to Moderators

YannisThe first time I came upon a suggested edit audit, I almost send a mod message to the user who had suggested the edit. Only halfway through writing the mod message I realized there was a chance the - truly horrible - edit might have been an audit. I'm pretty sure a fellow mod shared a similar sto...

 
8:30 PM
4 hours ago, by Robert Harvey
Pshaw. Its underlying script is written in LOLCODE. How serious could it possibly be?
@JimmyHoffa
 
user41796
8:53 PM
@Ampt - thought you would find this funny in light of yesterday's conversation about invalid suggested edits.
 
user41796
115
Q: Stop using real accounts in suggested edit audits

Won'tWell, thanks for making me harass a user over attempting to vandalize a post! Got a flag on a question notifying us that a new, low-rep user submitted a bogus edit suggestion. Okay, so I went and took a look at it. Well, that certainly looks spammy. I then checked out the user's account, w...

 
@GlenH7 I was literally just reading that
I just can't shake the feeling that I was being used
 
user41796
Unfortunately, I don't think the fix goes far enough IMO
 
user41796
you were. That's the SE model
 
user55340
@Ampt No... its Jimmy that gets used...
 
8:54 PM
@GlenH7 I reached the same conclusion about the 'fix'
 
user55340
Mar 19 at 21:33, by Yannis Rizos
btw @JimmyHoffa did I thank you for volunteering to be my guinea pig every time a new mod feature is implemented?
 
theres no good way to do it otherwise though. if you use a fake user some script is gonna go DEAD LINK THIS IS AN AUDIT AAAAAAAAAH
what if the review process went review post-> make decision -> THEN disclose user info to make follow up possible
 
user55340
@Ampt ...
 
user55340
5
Q: Poor first post audit selection

MichaelTI had a first post audit today, and passed it... it was, well, too obvious. And while I realize that this is in part to catch robo reviewers, there can be some things done to improve it for the near-robob poor human choices too. The audit itself was this one. Do not select a first post from ...

 
@Ampt ...so you put the auditee in a monad where that user is a real user, in the real world the rest of us can tell it's not a real user but since the auditee is unknowingly inside a monad he see's a different version of things
 
user41796
8:59 PM
@Ampt honestly, it's pretty easy to tell it's an audit if you click through. And 90% of the time spidey sense kicks in and tells you to click through to verify it's an audit.
 
@GlenH7 except when it's genuinely a bad question that it's using in it's close queue audit...
 
user55340
@GlenH7 I'm still waiting for him to get to the close vote review queue....
 
user55340
Or a bad open one that somehow got only upvotes...
 
@GlenH7 everyone except @JimmyHoffa apparently...
And I'll give up my rep before I take up the R word (Responsibility)
Wonder how many edits you can make on a chat post lol
 
@JimmyHoffa I'm surprised you didn't answer programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/211053/…
 
9:09 PM
@jozefg I understood the question but frankly didn't know the answer. I kind of guessed it was as you said but iduno, my confidence with Haskell overall is pretty low. I need to keep writing more of it.
(though if it's to save green folks the hassle, we should have XNoMonomorphismRestriction default, because it's damn annoying to begin with)
 
@JimmyHoffa I suggest reading /r/haskell and anything by edward kmett or spj. That's what I do
 
I would have guessed it's more just because Int is a simple type to work with, and early on differentiating a type class from a type is really confusing
@jozefg Yeah I know, they're both geniuses and frankly large portions of it flies over my head.
I need to get a better sense of the math to read half the stuff they go over
 
That's fair, have you at least read Scrap Your Boilerplate (very light on math)
 
any Free UML tools you guys use? Possibly online? Doesn't have to be super fancy but I would prefer more than just boxes that I have to put text on top of
 
user55340
I use HXT and Haskell quite often, it's very pleasant — jozefg 4 hours ago
 
9:21 PM
@jozefg Actually never heard of this one in particular before, pulled it up just now.
 
@JimmyHoffa It's one of my favorite pieces of Haskell code, more so than quickcheck
 
user55340
@jozefg after you break every bone in your head trying to get your brain to space to expand for haskell... most things are likely pleasant by comparison.
 
user55340
(Haskell was secretly written by the Greys in an attempt to get us to have bigger brains to eventually evolve into them...)
 
I've done a fair bit with attoparsec, but never touched HXT or alex/happy, been meaning to poke into both of those. Everytime I run into TH or quasiquotes I get really annoyed at the extension magic that escapes simplicity
@MichaelT If he has more than two bones in his head he's already a Grey, which actually makes perfect sense
 
@MichaelT Oh yes, that first 6 months of Haskell was brutal, but now I get fun words like forgetful functor so it's ok :)
 
user55340
9:25 PM
@JimmyHoffa lots of little ones in ears that are not fun to break.
 
@JimmyHoffa I like HXT but dislike alex.. for some reason I have an aversion to parser generators on principle (bad experiences with yacc and a compilers class)
 
user55340
Also, not a few...
 
user55340
 
Alright I should actually go to class now :( Grr
Real work
Bye!
 
@MichaelT fairly certain these are bones in name only, actually cartilage, further I disagree with the idea of plates = bones, the skull is one big bone, proof: I can bash someone with a skull but not a lacrimale, therefore the skull is the bone.
(this is the part where the rule about arguing logic with an idiot comes into play, at which point the idiot wins by default, I think that's how it works...)
 
user55340
9:29 PM
> Except for the mandible, all of the bones of the skull are joined together by sutures, synarthrodial (immovable) joints formed by bony ossification, with Sharpey's fibres permitting some flexibility.
 
user55340
You don't lose bones as you age, at birth an infant's bones are not joined yet. They are separate bones.
 
@MichaelT Aye, and then when they get older they all form the skull, the best bone if you know how to use it; you appear to be failing yours right now however :|
 
user55340
I wonder if your argument could be used to say "you only have a ribcage rather than ribs"?
 
@MichaelT You know, bashing someone with a ribcage is a pretty spectacular thing, so I'm inclined to agree with your assertion.
 
user55340
@JimmyHoffa Or the Coccyx (four fused vertebrae)
 
user55340
10:44 PM
Best XKCD what if image ever...
 
user55340
 
user55340
> While researching this article, I managed to lock up my copy of Mathematica several times on balloon-related differential equations, and subsequently got my IP address banned from Wolfram|Alpha for making too many requests. The ban-appeal form asked me to explain what task I was performing that necessitated so many queries, so this is what I put:
 
10:57 PM
@jozefg I know of the and combinator as well as all, but I couldn't help my imagination, check out my terrible abuse of the maybe monad
 
user20683
I saw that
 
user55340
The type of thing that makes you wonder if Wolfram should buy advertising space on XKCD What If... I mean, they're getting free advertising anyways.
 
user55340
I'm also curious how many people hit the "how many days old am i" or whatever that question was on there.
 
user55340
11:11 PM
Or the referral logs on Wolfram (xkcd has enough 'power' to cause blips in Google trending)
 

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