The Whiteboard

8:00 PM

Just saying, not certain how successfull he'll be creating a canonical list of application types, though if he manages it I would sincerely like to know his secret

steve_gallagher

yeah I've seen many implementations of conway's game of life, that one slipped my mind. Not to be picky but that's more of a programming exercise than an application type

Jimmy Hoffa

@steve_gallagher Card game is a great one for any new language

Derfder

@rwong Thanks, but I want something specifically aimed at software libre en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_libre

thorsten müller

yes, but it fits very well with "practice a language with", and a good sudoku solver shows quite sime comoetency

steve_gallagher

@Jimmy Hoffa the list isn't really the goal, I'm a Rails developer trying to extend my JS skills. My motivation is what can I build using JS framework like Angular or Backbone or Ember...

Derfder

8:03 PM

Does anybody know any site that write news articles about software libre? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_libre

user20683

@Derfder ask in U&L's chat room

user20683

they are probably more cogent of FOSS news sources than we are

user20683

@Dynamic @MichaelT

user20683

blogs.perl.org/users/toby_inkster/2013/07/datadumpergui.html

Derfder

@WorldEngineer What is on that blog? As far as I know perl is a programming langauge

user20683

8:11 PM

@Derfder data structure visualization for Perl

Derfder

@WorldEngineer What is U&L ?

user20683

@Derfder Unix and Linux

user20683

or UNIX

Derfder

aha ok

Thomas Owens

Jimmy Hoffa

8:12 PM

@steve_gallagher master Machinad.js and you will know all the JavaScript you need

Thomas Owens

UNIX & LINUX

Derfder

"Javascript library for creating state machine's by way of monadic composition - AKA The error monad comes to javascript" Sorry, but it doesn't sound like something mature ;D

user55340

@Derfder With eclipse and most other nice IDEs you've got tools to look at the data structures in the debugger. Dynamic languages tend not to have such ide integration. Data::Dumper is part of perl for seralizing data (and looking at what you've got... but as text). So this appears to be a nice gui on top of that data structure.

Derfder

@MichaelT OK, I will try it.

user20683

utilite-computer.com/web/home

user20683

8:19 PM

This is neat

user55340

@steve_gallagher The card game - specifically implementing Project Euler #54 projecteuler.net/problem=54 can show the comprehension of a language. Other things tend to "just" be read and write data with different twists to it, but don't get into the core language too deeply.

user55340

Twitter clone is "just" another CRUD app on a different scale than most people work on. Its the scale problem, not the language.

Jimmy Hoffa

@WorldEngineer Very interesting, depending on price

love that it's quad core

Dynamic

@WorldEngineer Pretty cool

Thomas Owens

0

Q: hl7 - where does co-pay amount live?

I'm trying to come to a consensus where the patient's co-pay amount should live - outside of actual financial transactions (I'm aware of a GP2 segment that is part of a DFT message). We take care of patient registration and insurance tracking, but would like to send this information to another v...

hl7

user20683

8:26 PM

@ThomasOwens At my house

user20683

in my head

user55340

@steve_gallagher on the other hand, it depends on who you are trying to impress. Another programmer would likely prefer to see an application that utilizes the language to show that the person has competency. A client would probably prefer to see lots of things that they might want to build (as a sales brochure).

Jimmy Hoffa

@ThomasOwens Where could that possibly fit? We should have a "regulatory.SE"

Wouldn't even fit there...

The question is asking about a detailed little piece of info on the HL7 protocol...

only a programmer would really know the protocol, but that's like asking about some tiny persnickety detail of a 3rd party API... I guess it fits on SO

user20683

@JimmyHoffa There was a Healthcare IT site...

user20683

it flatlined.

Thomas Owens

8:28 PM

@WorldEngineer :\

Jimmy Hoffa

@WorldEngineer That's way too localized

@ThomasOwens It's a good fit for SO thinking about it, if he was asking where does co-pay amount live in the header of an ICMP packet or other well-known protocol, we would migrate it to SO

user55340

> Apart from the more obvious uses, this tip is particularly useful if you’ve imported a database dump from another server and don’t know the system password.

user55340

sigh

Jimmy Hoffa

the HL7 thing just throws people I guess

Thomas Owens

@JimmyHoffa Really?

It apparenly doesn't have a defined location, though. He's wondering how to store it.

Jimmy Hoffa

8:30 PM

Yeah, he's asking specifically in this technically documented protocol, where do I look to find this piece of info

Ohh I misread it

I wish I could un-request to migrate now. You're right it's actually a good fit here.

psr

@JimmyHoffa Go upvote Thomas Owens' comment disagreeing that it's too localized then. It might dissuade close votes.

user55340

3h until I've got close votes again to leave open it...

Thomas Owens

Not allowing this question is like not allowing questions about the MISRA C guidelines because they are automotive industry guidelines.

user55340

@JimmyHoffa

user55340

632

Q: Can we have the ability to rescind a close vote before it closes?

Sometimes you vote to close something and the OP then changes it to fix the issue or issues. You can't take a close vote back though. It would be nice if you could. With the new Duplicate close changes and the review queues, it's even more important to be able to remove accidental or erroneous...

feature-request status-planned editing vote-to-close

Jimmy Hoffa

8:35 PM

@psr one better, programmers.stackexchange.com/posts/204959/revisions

psr

It's possible there simply is no accepted place for co-pay. In my brief foray into HL7 data exchange we spent considerable time standardizing different vendor's implementation of the standard.

Jimmy Hoffa

@WorldEngineer Clean up the comments there if you would now

Thomas Owens

Unfortunately, my friends in healthcare are on vacation. :(

I would email it to them at work and have them kick it around to their coworkers.

Jimmy Hoffa

@psr I never had to work with the protocol directly, but knowing where it's from and where it's used, I have every expectation it's extremely deficient

Robert Harvey

@ThomasOwens What the fuck.

Jimmy Hoffa

8:40 PM

I would pass it off to the guys I worked with who did the protocol implementation at previous place, but they're still shell-shocked regarding it I'm sure. I only ever heard horrible things from them having to deal with it.

Robert Harvey

Well, we'll never know, since ALL THE COMMENTS ARE GONE. O.O

user20683

You said clean them up, so I did

Jimmy Hoffa

@RobertHarvey ?? Sorry I asked WorldEngineer to clean them up because it was all meta chat

Thomas Owens

Wait, what?

Jimmy Hoffa

and you folded

user20683

8:42 PM

>.>

Thomas Owens

Uh...why were they all deleted? It was kind of relevant as to topicality...

Robert Harvey

@JimmyHoffa That was meta chat? Every comment was relevant to the question, asking specifically for clarification.

Say, maybe we can check out that undelete functionality.

user20683

@RobertHarvey I'll flag down Comms

Thomas Owens

On a question with 3 close votes, a discussion about closure isn't meta...

Jimmy Hoffa

Ah ok

Sorry, I presumed since it was about whether it should be closed it was exactly meta

Jimmy Hoffa

8:55 PM

@RobertHarvey Didn't like my edit?

user41796

@WorldEngineer, @ThomasOwens - do you want a 5th close vote on that HL7 question so you can instant re-open and clear the 4 close votes?

Robert Harvey

@JimmyHoffa It makes it look like the OP was clarifying. I'd rather the OP do that.

Also because EDIT:

Every question has a detailed edit history, accessible from the post itself. Monikers like EDIT: are unnecessary.

2

user41796

@RobertHarvey - I would imagine it's frustrating being able to see deleted comments on SO since you're a mod but then not being able to see them on Programmers.

Robert Harvey

@GlenH7 I wouldn't know. There's no indication to a non-mod that comments were deleted. I only knew in this case because I was there.

user41796

That's a good point - I guess I was projecting a bit. I'm low to no rep on most other sites so I get frustrated at not being able to see vote splits, close counts, deleted Q's, and other meta aspects of questions.

Jimmy Hoffa

9:06 PM

@RobertHarvey I know the Edit moniker is unnecessary, I wanted the poster to notice it though and decide whether it was appropriate, but at the same time I think it clarified something everyone was confused by and causing all the close votes "What is HL7"

user41796

@JimmyHoffa - OP's are notified when their question is edited. Goes to the inbox. That presumes they know to look at that red or blue circle and click on it.

user55340

@GlenH7 Which presumes they actually come back to look at it again... the OP of the question hasn't hit the site since the question was asked.

user55340

Durring active periods, that first few minutes of comments and clarification can help make a question more relevant rather than guessing and letting it fall off and dissapear.

user41796

OMG! A user not demanding an immediate answer? ;-) (bad reference to conversation earlier in the day about people asking urgent questions)

user20683

@GlenH7 I'm just waiting for September...

user55340

9:11 PM

@WorldEngineer its always September.

user55340

Eternal September

In Usenet slang, Eternal September (also September that never ended) began in September 1993. In that month, the online service America Online began offering Usenet access to its tens of thousands, and later millions, of users. Before then, every year in September, a large number of new university freshmen acquired access to Usenet for the first time. These took some time to become accustomed to Usenet's standards of conduct and "netiquette". But, after a month or so, these new users would learn the networks social norms or simply tire of using the service. However, for the pre-existing us...

user41796

@MichaelT Many / most new users don't know that either. I think many are used to the fire & return & hope model. I kind of wonder if it wouldn't hurt to add commentary to the help center encouraging folk to stick around for a little bit after asking a question.

user55340

This is the 20th anniversary of September that never ended?! Hmm...

user55340

Wish I was back in SF where I could find some sysadmins to go drinking with fairly eaisly.

user41796

I kind of wish it would hurry up and cool off outside like it does in September.

user55340

9:15 PM

Hmm... memories... or what memories there were from that party... groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.sysadmin.recovery/D56O-Wk7QFo/…

user55340

>THE "BECAUSE IT'S TIME FOR OCTOBER" BOFHBOF, OCTOBERBASH, AND RECOVERY PARTY

It has been a long September...

>Date: Friday, 2 OCT 98

user20683

Close Votes may now be retracted

user55340

@WorldEngineer So they can...

user55340

meta.stackoverflow.com/posts/915/revisions -- it moved from status planned to status completed 23 min ago.

user55340

(and thats not the accepted answer but rather far down there)

user55340

9:20 PM

62

A: Can we have the ability to rescind a close vote before it closes?

There are a lot of "I agree" answers here already, which is great, but how about a good solution? Basically, when clicking the close button again after already having voted to close, change the original "Vote to Close" button to be a "Retract Vote" button: Clicking the "Retract Vote" butt...

Jimmy Hoffa

@WorldEngineer !! Awesome, I retracted my close vote

user20683

in other news, nap time for me

psr

I tried to look up an answer for the HL7 question, but just found the GP2 segment that he already knows about. The problem is the standard has to be paid for, and I don't have a copy.

user20683

before I make even more a fool of myself

Jimmy Hoffa

@psr The other problem is it's a terrible standard I'm sure

psr

9:26 PM

@JimmyHoffa Yes, but the problem is deeply politically intractable.

Jimmy Hoffa

@psr Of course, why else do you think they get to charge out the nose for the standard? The only reason we implemented it at philips was for working with the VA which you already know plenty about I suspect

Jimmy Hoffa

9:50 PM

I read the title of this really hoping to come and find out about a "Strange" badge, because that sounds right up my alley... — Jimmy Hoffa 11 secs ago

Jimmy Hoffa

10:18 PM

@MichaelT how do you do strikethrough again?

user55340

Three dashes. ~~strikethrough~~ Look at this history of this one.

Jimmy Hoffa

where?

user55340

On each side.

Jimmy Hoffa

Oh I did it on one side

~~winnar~~

doesn't work in comments.

Oh well

user55340

11

A: Add syntax highlighting and line breaks to comment formatting

There is limited Markdown allowed in the comments. You can create bold using the **[text]** You can create italic using the *[text]* You can do inline code using the backticks "`" on either side of the text.

user55340

10:24 PM

Yep... apparently that only has bold, italic, code, and link.

user41796

10:54 PM

calling it now. Troll!

user41796

-1

Q: I have heard visual studio causes cruft, should I install in wine, vm, or windows?

I have finally bought and built a nice computer, and I am 7 months in on my computer science degree (self taught [no $ for college] through EDX schools like MIT, Stanford, and Berkeley) and all of my classes require some different install of a VM for ruby, python, and C. My computer is already ge...

ide virtual-machine visual-studio-2012

user41796

-4

Q: What IDE should I use for python and ruby and C?

As it stands I love IDLE and the fact that it is interactive. What IDE can I use that is INTERACTIVE? I am using windows and Ubuntu and Two virtual machines for all of my different programming classes and I would like to combine them all into one. I tried Eclipse but it was not interactive.

python c ide

user55340

But the rules of writing are like magic spells. If you never acquire them, then not using them says nothing.

user41796

and it's "your" not "you're"; "ideas" not "idea's"; "they're" not "their"; "definitely" not "definately"; and he trolled me. :-)

Jimmy Hoffa

@gnat total death by super-collider...

4

Q: How can I effectively lead arrogant programmers?

I have discovered that often good programmers are very arrogant and stubborn people. This sometimes makes working with others or teaching new concepts difficult. I have a few questions about how to more effectively lead this type of personality Often I get silver bullet responses when discussin...

programming-practices management personality-conflicts

even I couldn't help but contribute another answer.

@GlenH7 I don't think so.. just young and asking questions about things he doesn't know the slightest about

user41796

11:11 PM

my paranoia certainly makes me see trolls everywhere, no doubt. The user handle and nature of the questions still make me suspicious.

user41796

funny:

user41796

Hey, Justin! One of your devs wrote an answer. — Robert Harvey 20 mins ago

user41796

I love crap questions since they bump my flag counts.

user41796

@JimmyHoffa I cede that you may be correct. I looked at his SO questions. They're crap, but they're not trolling.

user20683

11:35 PM

@JimmyHoffa

user20683

github.com/mame/quine-relay

user20683

50x Quine

gnat

@JimmyHoffa I think this question won't be a problem; it looks like a rant and it will probably be eventually closed. Even if de-rantified, it would be probably too broad, kept closed. IOW it's crap and no matter how brainless collider pumps it up, closure will take care of that. It's good questions that are hurt by collider bug

user20683

I'm being a gentle mod and letting it die a gasping death on its own

user20683

@gnat how was vacation?

psr

11:47 PM

@JimmyHoffa For such questions I always wonder if the other party would say more or less the same about the person writing the question. The "Mac sucks" thing makes it sound like they really are the problem, but his part 2 really depends on who is correct, and we have no way to tell.

gnat

@WorldEngineer protecting that rant feels a right move anyway, even if it gets closed, no need to heap up meh answers. As for vacation, it went just great. I feel totally re-charged. At the last day, I managed to swallow half of Beginning Scala, even though I don't intend to use / study it :)

amazon.com/Beginning-Scala-Experts-Voice-Source/dp/1430219890

just felt fun to read something programming related, go figure :)

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