TeX, LaTeX and Friends

7:14 AM

no-one in da house..

anyone an idea of why this ain't workin': \usepackage[table]{xcolor} ?

e.g. in this MWE:

\documentclass[a4paper]{article}

\usepackage[table]{xcolor}

\newlength{\mycustomlength}
\settowidth\mycustomlength{blaaaaaaaa}

%\usepackage{booktabs}

\makeatletter
\def\mycline#1{\expandafter\my@cline\@cline#1\@nil}

\def\my@cline#1\leaders#2\hfill{%
#1\hfill\leaders#2\hskip\mycustomlength\hfill\kern\z@}
\makeatother

\begin{document}

\begin{tabular}{|c|cc}
aaaaaa &bbbb &ccc\\
\cline{1-1}
dddd &e &f \\
\rule{\mycustomlength}{0.4pt}
\\
dddd &e &f \\
\mycline{1-1}
dddd &e &f \\
\end{tabular}

"MWE"

in this MWE it works:

\documentclass[a4paper]{article}

\usepackage[table]{xcolor}

%\usepackage{booktabs}

\begin{document}

\begin{tabular}{|c|cc}
aaaaaa &bbbb &ccc\\
\cline{1-1}
dddd &e &f \\

\\
dddd &e &f \\

dddd &e &f \\
\end{tabular}
\end{document}

posted it as a question here

Qrrbrbirlbel

8:38 AM

Erm …

0

A: How to type higher order derivatives using Lagrange's primes notation

Input \documentclass{article} \usepackage{amssymb} % new commands % \newcommand \bprime {\backprime\hspace{-.11em} } % backstroke \newcommand \xprime {\prime\hspace{-.25em}\backprime} % cross \begin{document} $$ y', y^{\prime\prime}, y^{\prime\prime\prime}, y^{\pr...

egreg

10:28 AM

@Qrrbrbirlbel Incredible. ;-)

David Carlisle

10:58 AM

@egreg you have shown people that it is worth going to any extreme to avoid givig me a tick

Paulo Cereda

11:22 AM

@DavidCarlisle: Heiko uses joe, what do we do now? :)

Not to mention that Heiko edits the PDF source directly. :)

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda JOE also has some of the key bindings and many of the powerful features of EMACS so perhaps we still speak to him

@PauloCereda don't we all do that?

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle Nah. :P

@DavidCarlisle I meant PDF files directly. :P

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda yes? (how else do you make pdf files?)

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle emacs doc.pdf :)

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda It used to be easy, when pdf was just "simplified postscript" these days it's harder with compressed streams everywhere:(

Paulo Cereda

11:28 AM

@DavidCarlisle Kids nowadays. :)

@DavidCarlisle: now time to upvote your answers. :)

Paulo Cereda

11:57 AM

5

Q: are non-sx faqs now redundant?

i've been producing a faq on the web since 1995. it gets lots of traffic ... from search engines; also the odd question searched by an (apparent) user. i note that almost no-one references my faq (www.tex.ac.uk/faq), since they can always trivially (apparently -- i can't) find a relevant tex/sx...

discussion

David Carlisle

12:23 PM

@PauloCereda didn't they just recently start up a German faq?

Torbjørn T.

@DavidCarlisle Yep: texfragen.de

David Carlisle

@TorbjørnT. thanks

Stefan

@PauloCereda I read it and offered to Robin that I could host and maintain the FAQ. I would be glad to see this work live on.

Paulo Cereda

1:07 PM

@Stefan Oh that sounds great! :)

jonalv

Do I need new glasses or have the font of the site changed lately?

Torbjørn T.

@jonalv Don't think so. Could be your browser messing things up. Try restarting it and/or deleting the cache.

jonalv

/me changed glasses and that did the trick. :)

strange effect. They looked fatter...

Paulo Cereda

3:40 PM

Ouch, I just heard this year's World Youth Day Anthem. Ouch. Ouch.

egreg

@PauloCereda Don't let me know where I can hear it. ;-)

Paulo Cereda

@egreg Don't worry. :) Personally, I liked Roma 2000 anthem way better. :)

Gonzalo Medina

@egreg 200k this week, eh?

egreg

3:56 PM

@GonzaloMedina It seems likely. :)

@GonzaloMedina Friday, or maybe Thursday, depending on accepted answers. Too late for you offering an 800 point bounty, I'm afraid.

Paulo Cereda

@egreg We are planning a big surprise party, but we can't tell you, after all it's a surprise. :)

I'm so good at surprises. :)

egreg

@PauloCereda You can open a new chatroom, I promise I won't peek. ;-)

Paulo Cereda

@egreg oooh!

David Carlisle

4:21 PM

@PauloCereda don't believe him

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle :)

$TeX - LaTeX$ Super Hiper Mega Ultra Secretly Secre…

This is the super mega ultra secretly secret party for egreg, ...

@egreg: ^^ :)

Marco Daniel

5:06 PM

@nuttyaboutnatty: WHy do you think that RGB is activated?

\documentclass[a4paper]{article}
\usepackage{tikz}
\definecolor{mycolor}{RGB}{0,111,222}
\begin{document}
\color{mycolor} Text
\end{document}

Paulo Cereda

We need a german cake. :)

Marco Daniel

@PauloCereda Rhabarberkuchen oder Erdbeertorte -- aber wer weiß, wie deutsch das ist.

Paulo Cereda

@MarcoDaniel Oh my! youtube.com/watch?v=YcMT395UvWI

Marco Daniel

@PauloCereda Sometimes the German language is really funny ;-)

nutty about natty

@MarcoDaniel \usepackage[framemethod=TikZ, xcolor=RGB]{mdframed}

Paulo Cereda

5:21 PM

@MarcoDaniel <3

nutty about natty

@MarcoDaniel tex.stackexchange.com/a/123085/27721

and I think I need it for my custom color

Marco Daniel

@nuttyaboutnatty Did you see my example?

nutty about natty

\definecolor{mycolor}{RGB}{0,111,222}

e.g.

\definecolor{mycolor}{rgb}{0,111,222} gave a different colour

@MarcoDaniel yes,

do you mean that I can just as well leave out xcolor=RGB if I'm loading tikz ?

Marco Daniel

@nuttyaboutnatty yes. You can test it also with:

\documentclass[a4paper]{article}
%\usepackage[RGB]{xcolor}
\usepackage[framemethod=TikZ, xcolor=RGB]{mdframed}
\begin{document}
\makeatletter
\@ifXCopt{RGB}{yes}{no}
\makeatother
\end{document}

Or:

\documentclass[a4paper]{article}
\usepackage[xcolor=RGB,framemethod=TikZ]{mdframed}
\begin{document}
\makeatletter
\@ifXCopt{RGB}{yes}{no}
\makeatother
\end{document}

nutty about natty

what does ifXCopt do?

test if RGB is loaded/active?

return yes if yes

no if no ?

(apparently so :)

\usepackage[RGB]{xcolor} makes it a yes

Marco Daniel

5:29 PM

@nuttyaboutnatty That's a question for @DavidCarlisle. He's the package author ;-)

nutty about natty

pkg author of ifXCopt ?

Marco Daniel

@nuttyaboutnatty ?. There is no package. It's a simple command

 \@ifXCopt{<test xcolor option>}{<yes>}{<no>}

nutty about natty

OIC

:-)

egreg

@MarcoDaniel This is an xcolor macro, so nothing to do with David. It tests if the argument appears in the option list passed to xcolor.

Marco Daniel

@egreg I thought David is the author of xcolor.

Paulo Cereda

5:36 PM

@DavidCarlisle: you can add an answer here:

7

Q: Can compilers and interpreters have bugs?

If a compiler's work is essentially translating source code into machine level code, can there be any glitch in a compiler, i.e. a faulty "translation?" The same goes for an interpreter: can it fail to output the required content sometimes? I have not heard of any bugs in compilers/interprete...

compilers bug interpreters

egreg

@MarcoDaniel A package without bugs? :P

Marco Daniel

@egreg :-)

Paulo Cereda

Guys, just FYI:

$TeX - LaTeX$ Super Hiper Mega Ultra Secretly Secre…

This is the super mega ultra secretly secret party for egreg, ...

2

egreg

@PauloCereda I saw nothing.

Paulo Cereda

@egreg David dares you to take a peek. :)

in Super Hiper Mega Ultra Secretly Secret Party for egreg, 1 hour ago, by David Carlisle

I really expected to see a green square over on the right.

egreg

5:40 PM

@PauloCereda I won't.

Paulo Cereda

@egreg Oh. :(

@percusse: sir we need balloons. :)

egreg

@PauloCereda But I starred the line, so I can go there after the fact. ;-)

Paulo Cereda

@egreg oooooh neat. :)

nutty about natty

@DavidCarlisle The NeverEnding Story part 2, 3 and 4:

your MWE works poifectly

however,

implementing it in the mother document

(and he left the boat...)

causes yet another headache!

aah

Paulo Cereda

0

A: Times new roman font?

Well, really I solved this problem by writing my thesis using any font under the software TexMaker 3.5, then when I finished writing, I recompiled it with another software called MiKTeX 2.9. Now, under MiKTeX 2.9, change the typesetter to XeLaTeX, at this point you can apply the answer of @Leo Li...

nutty about natty

5:44 PM

\mycline{1-1} is shifted (to the right) by about 2mm

Paulo Cereda

This answer is an exactly duplicate of Leo's.

percusse

@PauloCereda \bgroup\begin{vacuum}\expandafter\recycle\plastic\end{vacuum}\endgroup

nutty about natty

wheras \rule{\mylengthydate}{0.4pt} isn't (and remains flush with the column's text)

gee

Paulo Cereda

@percusse ooh that's awesome. :)

nutty about natty

any ideas where to look for the culprit for a possible cause for the 2mm shift to the right ?

Stefan

5:47 PM

@PauloCereda I commented on it for now.

nutty about natty

(the tabularx definition is identical, btw)

Paulo Cereda

@Stefan Danke. :)

@Stefan: By the way, I thought of us changing a little bit the layout of texdoc.net. :)

egreg

@PauloCereda If you can, make hitting <return> in the box equivalent to clicking on the button

Paulo Cereda

@egreg Will do. :)

Stefan

@PauloCereda Great, I would be happy to hear a suggestion!

nutty about natty

5:54 PM

\mdfsetup & \mdfdefinestyle are identical, too

found the cause

(but not yet the solution)

tabularx was different:

\begin{tabularx}{\textwidth}{@{}*{1}{|p{\mycustomlength}|}*{1}{X}@{}}

vs.

\begin{tabularx}{\textwidth}{@{}*{1}{p{\mycustomlength}|}*{1}{X}@{}}

and/or

\begin{tabularx}{\textwidth}{@{}*{1}{p{\mycustomlength}}*{1}{X}@{}}

so removing the | rocks the boat

:-/

I wish I were conversant in TeX so I could fix it myself

but as I'm not

I'll have to wait....... till someone rescues me again

Marco Daniel

@nuttyaboutnatty no

nutty about natty

@MarcoDaniel out of context

Marco Daniel

\mdfdefinestyle{}{} vs. \mdfsetup{}

percusse

@nuttyaboutnatty Everytime you skip posting a MWE you reduce your chance of getting help by 65 gazillion percent

nutty about natty

was comparing two *.tex documents

Paulo Cereda

6:05 PM

@percusse /alien guy meme statistics. :)

nutty about natty

Removing the | unfortunately rocks the boat and introduces a ~2mm shift to the right of those (difficult) lines: How to make your solution neat again for \begin{tabularx}{\textwidth}{@{}*{1}{p{\mycustomlength}}*{1}{X}@{}} (without |p...) ? — nutty about natty 1 min ago

(which has plenty of MWE's to choose from ;)

percusse

where is the rest of it?

one liner ain't a mwe

nutty about natty

sorry: tex.stackexchange.com/a/123085/27721

it'll come down to modifying this code:

\makeatletter
\def\mycline#1{\expandafter\my@cline\@cline#1\@nil}

\def\my@cline#1\@multispan\@ne#2{%
#1\@multispan\@ne
{\CT@arc@\hfill\leaders\hrule\@height\arrayrulewidth\hskip\mycustomlength\hfill\kern\z@}}%

\makeatother

percusse

Aargh :)

can you please post a frikkin MWE that has only your current problem instead of pointing places? :D

Marco Daniel

@Stefan: I believe it's a bad idea as a moderator recommending texweld.de ;-)

Stefan

6:10 PM

@MarcoDaniel I assumed the OP would have a much higher chance with his do-it-for-me-approach there, so it was in hope for his good (and for TikZ people, who would find it there more easily)

nutty about natty

@MarcoDaniel I'm afraid this is as close and good as it gets (in combination with my last comment to that same answer) ...

David Carlisle

@nuttyaboutnatty you just nee d to replace the \hfill by whatever space you need on each side eg \hskip\tabcolsep\leaders...\hskip\tabcolsep\hskip\arrayrulewidth (this is why it makes far more sense to specify the width relative to the column width, as I said last night.

Marco Daniel

@Stefan Of course. I was too shy for this ;-)

Stefan

@MarcoDaniel I was happy to see that you recommended it on the dante-ev mailing list. I guess it was ok there too, since it's more "ev"-like than for specific TeX questions

nutty about natty

@DavidCarlisle thx! removing \hfill on the left of \arrayrulewidth did the trick

Paulo Cereda

6:15 PM

Why is the German TUG named after Dante?

nutty about natty

@DavidCarlisle in contrast, removing \hfill to the right of \arrayrulewidth does not appear to change anything (in the visual output)

dunno why, but I'm happy :-)

big sigh of relief ...

Marco Daniel

@PauloCereda Dante e.V.=Deutschsprachige Anwendervereinigung TeX eingetragener Verein

David Carlisle

@nuttyaboutnatty because you have @{}p{\lmrength} (obscured with *{1}{...} for some reason. which means the whole construct is pointless as you just want the rule to be full width, so the \hfill have no space to pad out once you have accounted for the column padding on the right.

Stefan

@PauloCereda and another coincident is the name of the DANTE journal: "TeXnische Komödie" - I'm sure you know "Divina Commedia" by Dante Alighieri.

Paulo Cereda

@MarcoDaniel Ach mein Gott!

@Stefan Oh that's awesome! :)

I wanna be German.

Please.

David Carlisle

6:20 PM

@PauloCereda I think there is a clue in the fact that they don't spell germany with a G either

Paulo Cereda

Except for the food.

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda don't you like cabbage?

Stefan

@PauloCereda Do you think Germans really eat "German" food? ;-)

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle LOL

Stefan

That's for tourists. We eat pasta, pizza, ... :)

Paulo Cereda

6:21 PM

@DavidCarlisle I sense Sauerkraut jokes. :)

@egreg: Heiko is here! :)

@Stefan ooh it's a trap. :)

Donaudampfschiffahrtsgesellschaftskapitän!

I don't even know how to start typing this word. <3

Heiko Oberdiek

@SeanAllred I have no intentions to add it to the hyperref manual. The method depends on the used class. Also the problem that one head line is too small for several section titles require creative solutions, thus a comprehensive description of the method would deal most of the time with things not related to hyperref.

Paulo Cereda

I only could think of TUGBR for a possible Brazilian TUG, but I'm not creative. :(

The logo of course has to have a bird in it. :)

Sean Allred

@HeikoOberdiek That's fair. It's unfortunate that it would be dependent on the class; hopefully LaTeX3 will offer a way around that. I'm decently close as is, just need to hook onto something right before output is written to the page, and I would wager the TeXbook will help me out with that (at least with asking good questions). I have it coming to my library -- so excited!

egreg

6:52 PM

@HeikoOberdiek Hi, Heiko! Glad you found your way to the chat!

percusse

7:32 PM

2

Heiko Oberdiek

@egreg Only on rare occasions.

egreg

@HeikoOberdiek I'm waiting for you in the 100K club.

Heiko Oberdiek

@egreg That is not possible, because you are leaving the 100K club and entering the 200K club this week. :-)

egreg

I hope that people in the 100K will not kick me off my position as president.

I'll always remain a 100K-er

cgnieder

@PauloCereda Do you have it?

Paulo Cereda

8:00 PM

@cgnieder Bought it today. :) But I need to way some days.

@egreg Does that mean @DavidCarlisle is the natural successor? :)

Sean Allred

@egreg I think you're a day early, then!

egreg

@PauloCereda The last appointed member? No way. ;-)

Paulo Cereda

@egreg :)

egreg

@PauloCereda Next one should be Jake.

Paulo Cereda

@egreg Oh! :)

egreg

8:05 PM

Heiko is on his way to overtake Ulrike for the 15th place.

-773

Canageek

Tsk tsk, I caught Eur. J. Inorg. Chem. using a beta for a Eszett.

Paulo Cereda

And @Werner is our congressman. :)

egreg

@Canageek Appalling!

Joseph Wright

@Canageek Yes, I've noticed that before

percusse

Some of my answers really receive undeserved upvotes...

Paulo Cereda

8:17 PM

@percusse :)

percusse

I got 10 for a manual copying pgfplotstable thingy....

In other times, I go nuts in the @ jungle and get two :)

I'll switch to L3 so I don't have any @s eheh.

Joseph Wright

@percusse :-)

@percusse Frank's starting on a book!

Paulo Cereda

@JosephWright oooooooooh!

percusse

yes ooooooooh indeed...

Paulo Cereda

Foreword by Stephen King.

Joseph Wright

8:24 PM

More accurately, I think he's volunteered the team to write a book (for DANTE)

Paulo Cereda

@JosephWright Oh no. :)

Joseph Wright

> Generating a sensible programming guide for expl3, e.g., a reference manual + a nice example section should be possible and of some interest for people, but only if it can be in English. Would that be an option?

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle's own chapter on xor!

Joseph Wright

@PauloCereda :-)

@PauloCereda More worryingly, I probably am down to write most of it

Seriously

Paulo Cereda

@JosephWright :)

@JosephWright: speaking of books, I forgot to tell you some news. :)

Joseph Wright

8:27 PM

@PauloCereda ?

Paulo Cereda

@JosephWright In a minute. :)

@JosephWright: offline on Skype?

Joseph Wright

@PauloCereda Skype up in a second: had to restart machine

Paulo Cereda

@JosephWright :)

percusse

no problem we can leave if you need some space

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda chapter 6 which follows chapter 5 on dandelion.

Paulo Cereda

8:34 PM

@DavidCarlisle Oh no!

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Am I doing 1-4?

Paulo Cereda

@JosephWright and 7 to 14. :)

Joseph Wright

Bruno I guess has to write something on mind-bending stuff

David Carlisle

@JosephWright and 6-10

Paulo Cereda

@JosephWright Damn I was gonna say that! :)

@DavidCarlisle Hey, yours is 6. :)

lockstep

8:36 PM

@Werner Congratulations for earning the Steward badge!

8

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda you were not supposed to notice that:-)

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle oopsie. :)

@lockstep ooh!

Congrats @Werner! :)

mhelvens

Hi all! I'm looking for an example of two (or three, or four, ...) packages that, when loaded in the wrong order, cause a straight error (latest version, pdflatex). You see, I'm working on a general solution to the package-loading-order problem, but frustratingly, most well-known packages have already hacked in an ad-hoc solution. :-)

David Carlisle

@mhelvens there is no general solution:-)

mhelvens

@DavidCarlisle You just wait. :-)

@DavidCarlisle I'm writing a tex.SE question about it. Thing is, I need a straightforward example.

cgnieder

8:40 PM

@PauloCereda Waiting for delivery?

David Carlisle

@mhelvens a.sty is the line \def\foo{good} and b.sty is the line \def\foo{bad} I don't see how you can make package load order not matter.

Paulo Cereda

@cgnieder Yes, it's imported, so I need to wait. :( If it weren't a left-handed model, it would be easier...

cgnieder

@PauloCereda you could've bought a right handed model and then played it like Hendrix: upside down ;)

mhelvens

@DavidCarlisle Of course. In that sense it's not a 'general' solution. But I'm writing a package that offers some tools to specify loading-orders separately from the actual \usepackage command. It will also be backed by a database of known package-orders.

egreg

Does anybody have the same problem that lualatex hangs on this document?

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{fontspec}
\begin{document}
hello
\end{document}

mhelvens

8:44 PM

@DavidCarlisle For the average user it's a general solution. For other users it will greatly simplify specific solutions.

Paulo Cereda

@cgnieder Or Doyle Bramhall II. :) I like his setup: left-handed guitar body, right-handed string setup. :)

mhelvens

So... No such packages exist right now? :-) What would you say is the shortest way to make pdflatex crash because of a wrong package order?

How typical that when you're looking for trouble, you can't find it.

cgnieder

@egreg there was something on the TeX Live list about lualatex not stopping and it was suggested that luaotfload-tool --update would help

I had the same problem today and it helped in my case

Torbjørn T.

@egreg Doesn't hang, just takes a long time to compile.

cgnieder

@PauloCereda never heard of him :( the search engine results imply that I should...

egreg

8:49 PM

@cgnieder It worked, thanks

Paulo Cereda

@cgnieder Personally, I don't like his style, but his technique is surely interesting. :)

David Carlisle

@mhelvens ah OK yes so you meant making \usepackage{a,b} work the same way as \usepackage{b,a} rather than making things work which ever order they were executed. OK.

Torbjørn T.

@cgnieder Thanks from me as well, worked fine.

mhelvens

@DavidCarlisle Indeed.

@DavidCarlisle Is it wrong to announce this idea on tex.SE by artificially making up a question about it?

David Carlisle

@mhelvens not necessarily (but my understanding of stackexchange etiquette is very shaky:-)

mhelvens

8:53 PM

@DavidCarlisle I suspect it will be ok. Anyway, I'll use a xetex example. Those appear to be easier to find right now. :-p

Paulo Cereda

@cgnieder: mind-blown fact: Doyle is right-handed, but he plays leftie. :)

cgnieder

@PauloCereda that's something! he must have stolen that idea from Mark Knopfler who does the same the other way around (and invented his own technique...)

Paulo Cereda

@cgnieder I believe so. :)

cgnieder

@egreg @TorbjørnT. you're welcome :)

Werner

@lockstep @PauloCereda: Thanks!

cgnieder

9:17 PM

@PauloCereda my guitar teacher (right-handed) had a left-handed strat only to be able to play Hendrix' songs like Hendrix :)

percusse

@cgnieder I wish it was that easy :)

cgnieder

@percusse I know :) but he was really good at it, actually. It wasn't that good either, though -- in my opinion he should've made the songs his own instead of trying to sound like someone else

Canageek

Does anyone here understand the latexmk config file?

egreg

@Canageek You probably need to understand Perl to begin with

percusse

@cgnieder I think the weirdest story is of Pat Martino's. He was already a great jazz guitarist but then had a brain surgery and lost all memory of playing. Then via his students and himself he learned how to play like himself. That's sick

Canageek

9:24 PM

@egreg I don't at all, I just want to set it up to output pdfs....

egreg

@Canageek latexmk -pdf?

cgnieder

@percusse and at the same time awesome

Canageek

@egreg Right, but I'd like to set that in the config file so I don't have to type -pdf every time

percusse

@cgnieder I've heard some details from Michael Sagmeister. He really did learn almost all over again.

Paulo Cereda

@cgnieder ooh! :)

mhelvens

9:31 PM

0

Q: Automated management of package options and loading order

LaTeX package conflicts are a common source of frustration: (1) (2) (3) (4) (5). To quote Freek Dijkstra: Package conflicts in LaTeX are a hell. I've been looking around, but I don't think anyone has worked on what would seem, to me, the obvious solution: a package which automates conflict ...

incompatibility package-options

I'd welcome any feedback!

Paulo Cereda

@mhelvens I planned some sort of DAG-like dependency scheme for the next araraversion, I see some similarities on your ideas. :)

mhelvens

@PauloCereda Cool! A possible advantage here, though, may be that it doesn't require outside tools.

Paulo Cereda

@mhelvens Yep. :)

@cgnieder: can I ping you from your site email? :)

mhelvens

@PauloCereda I'll have a look at arara. I'm shamed to admit I wasn't aware of it.

Paulo Cereda

@mhelvens Nah, don't worry. :) It doesn't do anything special, really. I have some things to implement yet. :)

mhelvens

9:37 PM

@PauloCereda I'd be happy to work together with the community on this. If, somehow, we can make this package compatible with arara, we might hit two birds with one stone.

cgnieder

@PauloCereda If you mean if the email address works: yes

Paulo Cereda

@mhelvens ooh! :) I think if we could detect changes and map them as elements of an oriented graph, we might be able to setup an order for them. :)

mhelvens

@PauloCereda Detect changes? What kind of changes?

Paulo Cereda

@mhelvens Sorry, I meant changes on macros, like redefining stuff. :)

mhelvens

@PauloCereda Ah, your plan is more ambitious than mine. But as David pointed out, how will you know which of them should go first?

@PauloCereda You would detect possible conflicts. But it requires 'creativity' to know the correct resolution.

Paulo Cereda

9:42 PM

@mhelvens We could trigger an email sending process to David and wait him to fix stuff. :)

mhelvens

@PauloCereda I like that one.

egreg

@Canageek % arara: pdflatexmk ;-)

Paulo Cereda

@mhelvens More seriously, we can have a predefined order setup by humans. :)

mhelvens

@PauloCereda Indeed. That's the plan. I've already made a very small start on that.

Canageek

@egreg I'm on windows, will that work?

mhelvens

9:44 PM

@PauloCereda Also, some macro redefinitions are 'morally commuting'. That is, it doesn't matter in which order they go. They both just add their own thing.

egreg

@Canageek arara works on any architecture (provided you have Java).

David Carlisle

9:59 PM

@PauloCereda I have an average turnaround of 10 years for attending to package functionality requests, and probably a life expectancy of less than 50 years, so hopefully your system won't trigger too many requests.

mhelvens

@DavidCarlisle Then the obvious solution is to first come up with a formula for immortality and then catch up with the backlog.

Torbjørn T.

@mhelvens By the way, I think it's preferred that only 'official' L3 packages are called l3... (chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/9624409#9624409), so perhaps you could consider a name change of l3graph.

mhelvens

@TorbjørnT. Ah, no problem. I can make mine 'official'. ;-)

@TorbjørnT. But, seriously. I didn't know. I'll ask Joseph about that and probably fix it.

Torbjørn T.

@mhelvens No problem I'd guess, as it's not on CTAN yet. (I just remembered because there was a package originally called l3ctr2e that was submitted to CTAN a while ago, and that was mentioned here in chat.)

mhelvens

@TorbjørnT. I am curious, actually, how a package becomes 'official'. It seems like l3graph might fit in well, and I'd be happy to make it conform to requirements.

@DavidCarlisle Can you tell me how that works? (see above)

David Carlisle

10:22 PM

@mhelvens well that's part of the problem in that while "latex3" consists of latex2e packages it's a bit hard to define what it is and so there probably ought to be a distinction between "team" packages and "contributed" ones You should register a prefix with @JosephWright's list though.

mhelvens

@DavidCarlisle Yep. I'm aware of the list (I already have one or two prefixes on there). I'm just wondering how you decide which packages to 'officially' support. For that matter, who gets to join the LaTeX3 team? I might like to join, but I'm sadly uninformed about what that would mean or what kind of commitment that would require.

@DavidCarlisle Is it a job?

David Carlisle

@mhelvens I think we only support "our" packages at present (although when "we" (not me really these days) changes anything Joseph usually does a scan over "known" packages and checks things don't break. as weith latexwe even packages by team members aren't necessarily core (eg siunitx is Joseph rather than latex team) just as colortbl and tabulary etc are mine, but longtable and dcolumn are core (tools)

@mhelvens It's work (but no money is involved:-)

mhelvens

@DavidCarlisle I don't mean to belittle the position. It probably takes more commitment than I can spare right now. But I'm genuinely curious about how one becomes a member of the team.

David Carlisle

10:38 PM

@mhelvens basically you contribute enough stuff and sent enough annoying emails with sensible feature requests that it is less effort to give you write access than not. Historically the team is small (typically only ever half a dozen active members) and in a position where they can "find" time for open source project work. when we wrote latex2e I was a post doc university researcher and didn't have a child, it turned out to be difficult to keep up and have a life, but some manage...

mhelvens

@DavidCarlisle That makes sense. Quite like typical open-source development then. Anyway, I'm clearly being too forward. Compared to you guys I've contributed laughingly little (basically only scratching my own itches). Let's say it was more a matter of curiosity.

And it's not necessary for my packages to be 'official' anyway. I was just thinking the graphs package would fit nicely with the standard packages you already offer.

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