The Pod Bay

LocalFluff

07:53

The sound quality of those FISO telecons reveals that some participants actually are in space! The one hour format is dictated by the sound studio orbits out of radio contact then.

R2D2 has joined them too.

Stack Exchange

13:34

NASA Image of the Day: Space Station Lunar Transit

posted on August 02, 2015

The International Space Station, with a crew of six onboard, is seen in silhouette as it transits the moon at roughly five miles per second, Sunday, Aug. 2, 2015, Woodford, VA.

briligg

19:43

@LocalFluff hey, that's a great resource Local. i didn't know about those.

TildalWave

21:11

>
We specifically invite real-time dial-in telephone access to space professionals to increase discussion quality. We don't have listen-only phone lines, however, and when we get lots of people on the line the quality degrades, mostly because of background noise. Yes, we've done more than 200 of these telecons, and we've got it figured out. More than 50 or so people on the line, and things can get messy. So, when we have that many people on the line, and we hear excess static, or talking, or music, or dogs barking in the background, we politely ask "Hey, could someone please turn down the n…

from spirit.as.utexas.edu/~fiso/why.html

briligg

(yeah, not from space. but still.)

LocalFluff

@briligg You didn't know about FISO? Oh! Well that explains why you seem not so well updated on the topics discussed here... :-D))

briligg

i'm really not well updated, actually. i have had to set that aside again and again.

my new love, mine for only $1699

endpcnoise.com/cgi-bin/e/nofan-pc.html

LocalFluff

It is really hard to find a new brand name or url these days. You never know who came up with the same idea before. So I'll post the link again, to help avoid confusion: futureinspaceoperations.com

TildalWave

@LocalFluff this one's PDF spirit.as.utexas.edu/~fiso/telecon/Griffin_7-29-15 on pages 25-27 basically shows what I was thinking in my answer to your suitport on station / spacecraft question

I imagine the mp3 also discusses why there's the need for the suitlock area

I didn't listen to about last 3-4 months worth of them, so plenty to go through still

similar for The Space Show, I only listened to a couple of them live

BTW who did I talk here that I should bring to notice that Mars 2020 rover landing site selection workshop that I scheduled?

It ought to be a swell one :)

briligg

21:27

i can not have such things playing in the background. i have to either be actively listening, or turn them off so i can work.

TildalWave

some are worth taking a few days off work tho :)

LocalFluff

FISO is a great resource. The link I gave @briligg was just making the joke that something completely different has exactly the same name. Who here would've guessed?

briligg

yeah, if the people who do that all spontaneously exploded i would not be very sad.

LocalFluff

@briligg I don't think they know about each other.

briligg

the FISO people didn't quite renew their domain name quite on time, and somebody snatched it up to post crappy ads and generally be annoying for personal profit.

i'm sure they could get it back if they were willing to pay a fee they just might be able to stomach.

TildalWave

21:32

I don't get it. What else is FISO?

LocalFluff

@TildalWave Some kind of skin surgeon who does "in-space" operations, of the future. Hence the url futureinspaceoperations.com which is what FISO stands for: "Futire In Space Operations".

TildalWave

oh ah ahahaha

also, dear lord

people pay for that?

LocalFluff

Last post was in 2012, so I think not much anymore , for some reason...

Old clients die.

TildalWave

somehow, I doubt it's the lack of decadence :)

maybe all those Russian plastic surgeries in the nearest seaport near you run them out of business LOL

briligg

no, no - it's a toad thing. really, it's what i said above.

someone grabbed the site name to post totally unrelated crap.

it's a thing.

LocalFluff

21:38

Apollo astronauts seem to live longer than average. Maybe that surgeon was fishing to get them as clients?

TildalWave

@briligg toads don't spontaneously explode, you have to light them a cigarette first

briligg

well, at any rate, i don't know who comes up with these ideas. a bunch of mini kim dotcoms. curse him for sharing my name.

LocalFluff

@TildalWave Suitports are external per definition. But couldn't a pretty simple cover protect them from micrometeorites? Actually, the suits themselves should be protected against them.

TildalWave

@LocalFluff suits are protected by the brain wearing it not wanting to go where it might hurt :P

briligg

@LocalFluff gotta ask, was that all tongue in cheek to joke about the site squatting? i can't tell.

TildalWave

21:43

otherwise yes, like I asserted there, suitports used in open space would have to be additionally covered... not as big of an area as proper airlocks, and all of it could be highly simplified, but still it would need a suitlock like they named it there

damn you keyboard!

actually even on Mars et al. you'd need some sort of a cover for them, likely an extendable / retractable tunnel, which I assert in another answer here LOL

9

A: Why are the EVA suits in the suitport (concept) exposed to the environment?

You have to consider that this is a concept that is still under development. If the suitports will really be used (and I don't see why not, it solves many problems at the same time) on Mars, or anywhere else where dusty environment is a bigger concern than during testing on Earth, they would like...

LocalFluff

@briligg It's getting crowded in the URL space. I'm joking about that it is a fact. You can't even talk about future in space operations without being associated with some medical condition these days.

TildalWave

don't mind @geoffc's answer, it's upvoted a bit more because he uses fancy image wizardry

:)

@LocalFluff that's why I totally support the new TLDs and I'd like to see some more in the future ... perhaps even .stackexchange ... at least it would solve their problem with certificates once and for all

briligg

Cybersquatting

Cybersquatting (also known as domain squatting), according to the United States federal law known as the Anticybersquatting Consumer Protection Act, is registering, trafficking in, or using an Internet domain name with bad faith intent to profit from the goodwill of a trademark belonging to someone else. The cybersquatter then offers to sell the domain to the person or company who owns a trademark contained within the name at an inflated price. The term is derived from "squatting", which is the act of occupying an abandoned or unoccupied space or building that the squatter does not own, rent, or...

if that is at all interesting to you... i'd hate to think you are walking around underestimating how diabolical people can be.

i mean, that could be dangerous!

TildalWave

I just ban all people, problem solved

briligg

so far i haven't managed to train my dogs to answer when i talk to them. so i still need a few people around.

LocalFluff

21:55

FISO is anyway a great resource. I just found it the other week myself, that's why I'm excited about it.

briligg

it is indeed :)

LocalFluff

What do you think about the now popular humans to Phobos idea?

Be right back

TildalWave

^ that's what they should write in big letters on its surface :)

I personally think that there's no point in going to Phobos alone as a separate mission ... if you're there, it should be really painful to see Mars that close and know you're not landing on it

yet it took you so long to get there ...

and even more to get back home

it would be an interesting strategic point for orbital station tho, so send stuff up there, explore with robots, set up a base and see if you can make some propellant up there, then send people with intention to also land on Mars

but we'd have to practice that first on the Moon

briligg

agreed. with all such missions, i'd say better to wait until it can be set up to be run remotely or automatically.

and i don't think any human mission beyond the moon makes sense until we've perfected long-term human missions on the moon.

LocalFluff

Yeah. But if that "evolutionary" program can do it in 2033 without waiting for the tooth fairy, I say go for it. It would be more like going around the Moon with Orion. Phobos mission doesn't require landing anywhere. Save alot of costs and risks.

TildalWave

22:03

that would be a requirement on Mars anyway... what I don't get is where are all those 20 something missions that have to happen before we land anyone there?

briligg

or maybe in very large orbital stations.

@LocalFluff i have a feeling you are going to be introduced to that tooth fairy relatively soon.

TildalWave

Why aren't we sending self-assembling habitats and ISRU experiments to these points already? They want to land humans on Mars in 2030's? Who are they kidding? The way we're engaged with it, it won't happen in the next century.

We better start having one substantial mission per year, better two

briligg

which is why the success of spacex reusability is so, so, so important.

LocalFluff

NASA and everyone in "big space" are completely uninterested in any lander or any simulated gravity. They seem to count on humans going to Mars in microgravity. And it seems logical, "politically" and economically to do Phobos and Deimos on the first mission.

TildalWave

on top of a couple that will assemble things in orbit that can wait or can later be replaced

@LocalFluff well I've seen many calls for centrifuge experiments within NASA too ... but there's a huge divide between the "official policy" and what most people at NASA think it's reasonable

briligg

22:07

the spider-bot assembly project - is that the right name? - on FISO has that in mind.

TildalWave

anyone still remembers how many missions it took to assemble ISS?

well, ISS is nothing compared to going to mars

in fact, ISS is peanuts in comparison

funny that there already were plans for a centrifuge on ISS

LocalFluff

84 uncrewed missions to the ISS, including the proton that launched the first segment. I remember, because only 4 of them have failed. The first one in 2011, the other three in less than one year. Three different launchers with three very different malfunctions.

What do we make of that?

Baseball statistics?

TildalWave

nothing happened tho, we've now sent one of twins for a year up there to see what we already know ... you can't have anyone for 9 or more months in microgravity and expect them to get physical on another planet

@LocalFluff Why not? It's not like we can do any other statistics. So baseball is all we have :)

I said it before, and I'll say it again. If you wanna go to Mars, you don't anchor on the Potomac.

briligg

@TildalWave are we really sure we aren't just not properly loading them when they exercise?

LocalFluff

@TildalWave Finally we'll have a true answer to the common popular question of whether a twin in orbit ages differently than the one at home. (Hmm, talking about that FI-SO surgeon who makes old people look younger, there's maybe a connection anyway...)

TildalWave

22:13

@briligg No, but does it matter? It's a publicity stunt anyway.

briligg

i've never asked on the site because i've never seen any indication the question can really be answered

@TildalWave ah.

TildalWave

it's the "we wanna go to Mars and this is where we start" kind of a thing

it has nothing to do with going to Mars of course, but psst don't tell that to the taxpayer

what good it really does is that there's one more American up there that won't need a Russian ride for a year

LocalFluff

People will soon go to Mars. Without government, without caring about the fact that almost no one else cares. Those who want to go to Mars will soon do so anyway.

No stopping it.

TildalWave

exactly

LocalFluff

Maybe not in 2033 though.

TildalWave

22:17

no, but in the 40's it's so far reasonable

assuming no major show stoppers

like Amero and such LOL

LocalFluff

2040, that's 25 years into the future. Going backwards it's like 1990, before Hubble.

TildalWave

yes, about that much

in 10 years from now, I expect announcement of a SpaceX - Khrunichev built 1M lbf engine

briligg

if that is the timeline, and one figures the price could come down in another 10 years, say, that makes me 85 years old when tickets might be in my reach - to the moon that is...

LocalFluff

Exploration is about not knowing. Humans don't know why they go to Mars. They'll find out, that's why they will go. It wouldn't even be exploration otherwise.

Is that compelling for the doubters?

briligg

Khrunichev? why do you think they will be in on it?

TildalWave

22:22

@briligg because Angara

briligg

is angara on a development path to reusability? because i don't think anything that isn't is going to matter in 10 years.

TildalWave

yes spaceflightinsider.com/organizations/roscosmos/…

briligg

well what do you know...

LocalFluff

NASA is the only organization that has soft landed successfully on Mars, sent anything at all to the outer planets, only one to send humans beyond LEO. Russia sent two probes to Venus 31 years ago. The rest of it is rocket engines and stations in LEO. They are good at that, but they just don't really do planetary science or HSF beyond LEO or reusability.

TildalWave

of course, there's also this:

note the "US-based production"

briligg

22:27

yes, that i had seen. tee hee.

TildalWave

I just searched for it in the transcript here, I posted it before

briligg

the more this becomes a business endeavor, the less it matters what nation is providing the launchers. the russians, and the ukrainians, could really grow.

TildalWave

not if the Republicans can help it :)

briligg

fortunately, i don't think they can :P

TildalWave

Have you listened to any recent senate / house hearings? They're going full r*

briligg

22:30

dear me, i don't have time even for things much more interesting than that

but just watch what happens when a foreign venture capital fund starts throwing billions of dollars directly at space development :D

this is going to be fun...

TildalWave

oh it's already happening

LocalFluff

but mostly on yet another spaceport which hopes to make a profit on parking fees and rent from macDonalds. Isn't that so?

TildalWave

If that was the case, then I doubt US legislators would be slowly realizing they don't have any reach that far and might have to find ways of ruining it for everyone

LocalFluff

$0.1bn invested in SETI research, the other week, as you know. WOW! Would any scientist say. Except the astronomer who would complain: "That would won't get you anywhere. I'm used to more. I need JWST kind of money."

Much like medieval astrologer actually, from the point of view of the king politician who didn't and doesn't know what he was and is paying for, but it seems very important. Figuring out the origin and destiny of us all...

briligg

no, if a fuel depot or space-based solar is funded, that takes everything up a notch. that is the project i had in mind.

TildalWave

22:39

I meant more things like spacepolicyonline.com/news/export-import-bank-will-have-to-wait

briligg

hell, if things move out of the US, i'm all for it.

TildalWave

@briligg you know it would be interesting to know why no thin-film PV is space certified

at NASA that is, for all I know, it might be with everyone else

briligg

that sounds like the makings of an excellent question :)

TildalWave

NASA seems to favor heavy triple junction PVs

sure, better performance ... but hold on mr. ... how about the weight?

briligg

surely there is no way to do it at adequate scale anyhow unless you manage to base manufacturing on the moon. i have started reading about it in the last couple of weeks and have had to stop a couple of times.

TildalWave

22:48

it's perfectly possible to get 1 kW/kg energy density with PVs, and I haven't a clue how much they're getting with 3J but it wouldn't be even ballpark close

briligg

but the number of launches... come on, you have to do this from the moon.

TildalWave

that could all be telerobotics for now

briligg

or forget about profitability, and just do it in support of a grand space station project or something

TildalWave

I'd even sign up as an operator if they'd want me to... better than playing minecraft

briligg

yeah, with the ball rolling, seems reasonable to me :)

it was mentioned to me that in some recent speech elon changed his tune about the moon

TildalWave

22:53

he has indeed

briligg

this guy saw it on youtube. but he didn't tell me in which video

oh, can you recommend an example?

TildalWave

check the last couple of ones over at shitelonsays

I think

anyway, it makes perfect sense

if he wants to get to Mars he has to build a commercial interest for it

briligg

yeah, given how up to the eyeballs he is in space, i figured eventually maybe the mars thing was largely him just playing the tune that seemed most effective at the time.

TildalWave

that's his goal... goals are boring once you achieve them

the trick is enjoying getting there

I like Elon a lot. He's a bit like me. He also needs a woman to tell him when to shut up LOL

briligg

he seems like a good guy from afar. a woman to tell him when to shut up? i haven't run across that.

btw searching youtube for shitelonsays gets me nothing : /

TildalWave

23:04

@briligg shitelonsays.com/transcript

briligg

yeah, looked at that and doesn't seem to have much moon stuff

searching the page for moon gets 2 hits

@TildalWave trying to subtly signal to hubby in public when he has been talking too long has so far not worked very well for me. he has a couple of times said, why didn't you tell me? and i say, i tried.

TildalWave

hmmm I think some of it is in the MIT Aero-Astro Centennial

@briligg hehehe looks like I'd like your husband too

briligg

he has specifically charged me with the task of stopping him from doing that. after i made clear to him that it isn't to his advantage. but in mexican polite society that is a challenge

i'd go on about that, but i have to go ;)

TildalWave

@briligg I meant that Shotwell doesn't really like that Musk is so openly discussing what went wrong and so on. She also took over all the hearings, for the better really. Elon simply isn't cut to deal with those reptilians.

One thing you never do in hearings is tell more than you absolutely have to unless it's repeating your company's name and its successes.

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