The Pod Bay

1:02 AM

I still stand by ruptured (pre-heater) fuel line -> ignited on contact with exhaust plume -> rapid unplanned disassembly

and that it gracefully lost thrust (i.e. anomaly on a single out of two first stage engines)

possibly also had to throttle up to compensate for the leak (i.e. causing oxygen rich mixture instead of the other way around) so what expanded the rupture would be increased pressure + thermal expansion

the nitrogen purging to remove excess propellants (there's always some with cryogenics, Antares uses LOX) and to prevent cryo-pumping (atmosphere liquefying on contact with cryogenics) wasn't anything special, I checked with the Orb-2 launch videos (the one with the odd wobble clearing TEL) and it was similar

and today it was colder and less windy so even if it looked like there's a bit more of it coming out of the deflection tunnel it would most likely be that

Orbital Sciences/Cygnus CRS-3 News Conference Following Failed Launch is now webcast live on NASA TV

@geoffc Jeez! Tough luck again. Did you see anything at all from the bridge?

1:26 AM

Nope. Nothing visible, only 6 seconds into flight, maybe 100 feet up?

yeah too far away and the Earth dares not being flat

Can someone look at this image:

forum.nasaspaceflight.com/…

And tell me what colour/time band NYC is in? I am a bit colour blind and cannot see the colours properly.

@geoffc what is it supposed to be?

Image of the viewing range of the launch.

oh I think Spaceflight101 has that ... give me a second

1:32 AM

There are bands of colours, indicating when it should come into range. I THINK I am in L+120s range, but cannot be sure.

NY is orange

L+150s

Good to know, I waited 3 minutes last night just in case.

Won't be another of these launches for a while, alas.

Any bets if they continue with AJ-26 or ditch it?

too late to fly to Baikonur too, that launch is 5 and a half hours from now

I am betting on an engine switch and 3-5 years before next flight.

@geoffc didn't they say they're ditching it anyway?

1:36 AM

They have enough engines for the rest of the COTS/CRS flights, but after that, they were unclear on plans.

Possible ATK solids all stages, which seems stupid.

they sued ULA/USAF for RD-180 didn't they?

wait ... I can find an article

Yep. That won't go anywhere. RD-180 is a kick ass engine, but using it in Antares is basically a new vehicle anyway. Might as well just buy a Zenit straight and launch that instead.

RD-170 on the same basic first stage is a Zenit, after all.

spaceflightinsider.com/organizations/orbital-sciences-corp/…

or on SpaceflightNow spaceflightnow.com/news/n1410/19antares

Agreed. But they were going to run out the AJ-26 supply, and then swicth for next set of launches. My guess is they give up on AJ-26 and just switch engines. But that is a multi year project.

Wonder if they give the rest of the contract to SpaceX if they decide to reengine?

what is being said at the press conference?

1:39 AM

@Stu No one was hurt, waiting for fires to burn down so they can start securing the debris. Station has sufficient supplies.

Q&A now.

Asking people not to touch stuff that washes up on shore.

@geoffc dunno, there's the Blue Origin's new engine that seems nearly ready to go and is in that range (replacing two AJ26-62)

cool thanks @geoffc

@TildalWave I do not think Blue's engine is quite ready to go. The one they have been testing is the BO-3. With ULA they are suggesting the BO-4 (Or BU or B something). Going from 100K to 500K in that move, so the AJ-26 class engine is still just announced.

@geoffc BE-4 IIRC (Blue Engine 4)

BE, thank you.

1:42 AM

B something :)

So BE-3 is the one they have mostly developed, only 100K thrust I think. Or so... BE-4 is supposed to be the 500-600KLbs thrust engine (and Methane vs RP1 I think) and is not real yet.

has BE-4 even been built or tested?

i thought it was just a design

oh yea nvm i jsut read what you wrote @geoffc

@Stu That is what I thought. I thought it was not even a 'design' quite yet, mre a notion.

they said on the last ULA/Blue Origin panel that they've done extensive testing on it already

yea i guess its good to keep the dev phase under wraps

i wonder where they do testing

1:45 AM

Blue has a test range... Texas? Or was it Washinton state?

Someone on the ground, claims the FTS fired almost as it hit the ground.

there's some videos on YouTube ... in the Nevada desert I think

Wondered why FTS did not quite termninate it.

Mojave ... that's the name

I knew it was M something :)

is FTS self destruct?

ah yes lots of open space in Mojave

Flight Termination System.

Every space craft needs a plan to terminate flight.

1:47 AM

yea of course

just incase those suckers go off course

F9R Dev1 terminated by shutting down the engine and venting fuel/oxy. So that one went out of control so they terminated.

Be interesting if Nasa lets SpaceX refly a Dragon, to try and make up some of the cargo shortfall till Orbital recovers (if ever).

(F9 boosters they are churning out pretty quick, more Dragons would be a problem to build faster).

West Texas youtube.com/watch?v=osEMzfj1Yd8

West Texas sounds right for Blue's test site

Dumbass Q:" How long do you expect to be grounded? Ball park is fine.

Good answer: Based on experience, too early. ALl guesses are usually wrong.

Looks like Pad took a lot of damage. Solid fuel was burning for a while.

Nothing like igniting a solid booster with a broken case.

So this year we had 4 failures no? Russians lost a sat to second stage, ESA lost two Galileo to wrong orbit, this one today and there was one China's commercial launch that failed. Any I forgot about?

Press viewing area footage

►

1:53 AM

@geoffc thanks!

F9R-Dev1 does NOT count.

OK people, word of advice: When you expect something to be extremely loud keep your mouth open as wide as you can so you don't lose hearing to it (keeps the Eustachian tube open equalizing the pressure) ... on the video the guy that was screaming seems was the best off

From an airplane.

►

yup it definitely was in trouble before the explosion

that video from the press area is fantastic in HD

and everyone that you can't hear screaming before the blast is then gasping for air after it ... gotta sympathize with them tho, it's quite hurtful

Makes the call to waive last nights flight because of the boater in the hazard area look prescient.

2:07 AM

and yes crying helps too to reestablish normal breathing when you're hyperventilating due to shock

4 hours ago, by TildalWave

people on that boat that was in the safety zone yesterday will be really relieved that they scrubbed it for a day

Oops... :)

How can that be 4 hours ago? Launch was 3 hours 46 min ago. :)

I'm GMT+1 hour :P

Any good Russian readers? Good Russian NK-33 page.

lpre.de/sntk/NK-33/index.htm

I have friends who could translate, but not gonna bug them. (All 4 kids can read/speak Russian, one is in ROTC with the Army as a Russian language specialist...)

I could give it a shot, anything in particular you'd like translated from it?

Not really, just generally interested in stuff like that.

Range initiated FTS around 20 seconds in. Failure began 10-12 seconds in.

2:12 AM

so... did it hit the ground or self destruct?

FTS did not do much, it was already thrust terminated at that point, and burning. So FTS would just open up more burn. Now if FTS zipped open the solid Castor stage, that might have spread debris, or opened up more surface area for burning.

That would explain some of the solid burning... You would expect a structurally intact solid ignied to go spin around and kill stuff. But FTS'ing would make sense.

Gonna have a disappointed son in the morning. I snuck out to go watch the launch without him and then it crashes. Oh well, face the bad news in the morning.

hichris123

@geoffc Could you even see anything?

Nothing. I did not make it to the GW Bridge, traffic in Ft lee was terrible!

I watched from a clear spot in a park, but a bit lower.

It did not get very high at all, so would not have been visible.

XKCD

4:04 AM

Anyway, that's a common misconception. Geese live for a long time; all the ones we can see will probably keep flying around for billions of years before they explode.

6:06 AM

Weather in Kazakhstan looks nice for the Soyuz / Progress launch

6:41 AM

Launch of the ISS Progress 57 Cargo Ship to the ISS from Baikonur Cosmodrome is now covered live on NASA TV. Alternative stream (no commentary) is available via Tsenki TV (or here, use "Source #2" or links for mobiles)

7:09 AM

T-30 sec.

ignition

liftoff

max dynamic pressure

all nominal

NASASpaceFlight.com: Russian Progress M-25M heads to the ISS via Soyuz 2-1A

7:22 AM

posted on October 29, 2014 by Chris Bergin

A Russian Soyuz 2-1A rocket has lofted the latest Progress resupply vehicle (M-25M) en route for a fast rendezvous trip to the International Space Station (ISS). The launch... Related posts: Russian Progress resupply ship M-24M docks with ISS Progress M-66 launches, heads for the International Space Station Russian Progress M-14M docks – M-13M de-orbits following satellite deploy

12:40 PM

ah, the reliable Soyuz does it's thing.

1:42 PM

Great post in NSF forums:

At something like 286 tonnes at liftoff, I believe that Antares with Orb-3 may be the second heaviest-ever rocket to fail and fall back on or near its launch pad in United States history, but it may be the heaviest-ever liquid stage to fail this way in the U.S..

Number one has to be, hands down, Titan 34D-7 which weighed about 680 tonnes-plus when it blew apart at T+16 seconds above SLC 4E at VAFB on April 18, 1986. But its liquid stages only weighed about 178 tonnes.

Delta 241, a 7925 with GPS 2R-1 that failed at T+7 seconds on January 16, 1997 above Cape Canaveral LC 17A, weighed 232 t…

(By Ed Kyle).

N-1 in Russia of course probably leads the mass category. Forever I hope...

And a link to attribute that stolen content.

forum.nasaspaceflight.com/…

1:54 PM

Interesting... Russia is floating between restarting NK-33 production or just switching over t the RD-193, based off the RD-190, which Angara uses, and is half an RD-180, which is half an RD-171 (Zenit booster, side booster for Energia and Sea Launch currently use).

If you did not buy Anatoly Zak's Russia Space book, and you like this stuff, stop now and go buy it. Awesome quality. Huge content and totally worth it.,

8/12 X 11 size, full colour TONS of totally unique pictures and content.,

russianspaceweb.com/book_future.html

My 6 year old son and I both love that book. :)

astrobites: Why Save the Sky?

2:35 PM

posted on October 29, 2014 by Guest

One at a time, street by street, town by town, we can save the sky.

NASA Image of the Day: The Warm Glow of Mach 3

3:14 PM

posted on October 29, 2014

The Flight Loads Laboratory at NASA's Armstrong Flight Research Center is celebrating 50 years. It sprang into existence during the era of the X-15 rocket plane and the YF-12 and SR-71 Blackbirds, and was dedicated to testing the latest in high-speed flight. In this image from 1971, the YF-12 forebody's radiant heating system is being tested at the Flight Loads Laboratory under conditions expe…

4:44 PM

I really don't get the SE SuperCollider any more... so much has been going on and the question about the NASA logo gets there and others asking about more current events don't?

5:00 PM

Launch of ULA Atlas 5 rocket deploying the USAF's eighth Block 2F GPS satellite is now webcast live

Oh man! 190 points today!! Can I beg one upvote from someone so I finally hit the rep cap for the first time?

Rep cap for the poor? (Imagine Monty Python there...)

@geoffc It's still 7 hours to go and you have a top voted answer on the question that's hit the SuperCollider ... not only you'll reach rep cap you'll even lose rep to it :))

Fair enough...

What is the supercollider>?

That side thingy on the Questions page?

This is a big deal?

BTW your answer is the only one that is correct, the other two decreasingly less so ... but it still helps they're there (gives SuperCollider points to the question as long as they're not in minus by votes)

@geoffc yup Hot Questions thingy

Lot of thingies on these sites. Widgets, gidgets, thing-a-ma-bobs, etc...

5:10 PM

yup it's difficult to track all of that even for mods ... or maybe it's even more difficult for us since you get even more toys to play with, tho those aren't developed so much any more since it's not a priority unless policy substantially changes

@geoffc It used to be even worse, that's why it got the nickname SuperCollider ... moving it to the sidebar and rotating the list somewhat removed the impact it makes but it can still be substantial especially on smaller SE sites

Consider that most members of other sites would have 200+ rep on one of them and they get association bonus of 100 rep point here then as soon as they register. So they can upvote but can't downvote. Then combine that with badges members get for voting. This creates some interesting cascade voting effect.

Sometimes frustratingly so

T-3 min. on the Atlas 5 launch

this one better go smooth as butter, I never thought I'd say this but godspeed ULA

T-2 min.

T-1 min.

T-10 sec.

ignition

liftoff

all nominal so far

mach 1

max q

not much bow shock visible at max q today

MECO

booster stage separation

2nd stage ignition

5:50 PM

Got my 200 points! And the mortarboard badge! Finally. :) My first one ever!

Undo

So this one didn't blow up?

6:55 PM

@geoffc Congrats! And you're already getting "surplus upvotes" for lack of a better word :)

Ya, well, worth it for the badge? :)

Is there a report on how many 200 plus people on SE?

I think there's some mortarboard query on Stack Exchange Data Explorer

I can never even remember the URL of the Query site.

data.stackexchange.com I guess they could also alias it to spinner.stackexchange.com to reference Brent Spinner and otherwise spinning and shuffling data around in all possible ways that does or doesn't make sense

One N in Spiner?

6:59 PM

damn!

my plans were foiled

Nothing quite like an explosion to pick up interest in Space Exploration.

Any idea why this query returns nothing?

data.stackexchange.com/space/query/229463/…

I didn't realize beta sites were in the database dump these days...

@geoffc it depends on the votes database and those are really rarely updated even for graduated sites

Ok. Worth a shot.

7:04 PM

> WHERE U.Id = 2009616

if even ... I remember some discussion about it possibly leaking sensitive info

@PearsonArtPhoto ah yes and that :)

Remove that, and it works.

data.stackexchange.com/space/query/edit/239999

And it should be -2, not -3...

Thanks.

There's still something wrong...

It says I've hit the limit on 28 days, but I've only actually hit it on 18.

space.stackexchange.com/reputation

It doesn't distinguish between question votes and answer votes.

it's also about daily total rep so it would include stuff like association bonus, bounties,...

7:11 PM

See data.stackexchange.com/stackoverflow/query/8116/…

that's "passive rep"

and for Stack Overflow

This looks much closer, but still not perfect. data.stackexchange.com/space/query/edit/240000

There you go ... Money for SEx.SE Jam: data.stackexchange.com/space/query/240013/my-money-for-jam

I know it's for passive rep. It's easy to change the site. I was just looking for a way to calculate reputation on a daily basis.

darn ambiguity :)

in other news I also made it over 200 today ... basically on how romantic I am LOL

so it turns out I get 12.8 passive rep per day or 4,682 per year ... it's my retirement fund :)

7:29 PM

I'm around that as well...

ESA seems to be preparing heavy coverage of the Rosetta / Philae landing esa.int/esatv/Television

TildalWave has added an event to this room's schedule.