The Pod Bay

TildalWave

11:48

Can we please have this question migrated to meta? :

0

Q: Literary resources considered as "literary canons" on the topic of space exploration

Which books, journals, articles, or electronic resources are considered a must-read by scientists, engineers, e.t.c., involved in development and design of interplanetary missions? I'm looking for the so-called "literary canon" of space missions; The ones most praiseworthy for expanding one's kn...

literature

It currently has 4 votes to close, but only a single migration to meta request, as the idea to do so came later than the 3 previous votes... I think it's a good idea to move it there.

Rory Alsop

12:04

@tildal - I agree. Done

TildalWave

@RoryAlsop Cheers!

@RoryAlsop Who's in charge of actually migrating questions now?

RhysW

12:49

dont this this question is on topic for the site but im interested in the answers regardless so ill just ask it here

are there currently any planned missions to investigate europa in a bit more depth?

i know they dont want to contaminate the ecosystem, especially considering the energy sources used for most of the rovers, but you would have thought the fact they found liquid water under the ice would be reason enough to generate more interest in going there

Rory Alsop

@TildalWave dunno how it works before pro-tems. Guessing SE team members follow up flags

TildalWave

@RhysW Why would it be off-topic?

@RoryAlsop Ah OK... if it's not migrated by the time we get pro-tems then we should keep it in mind and migrate then. ;)

RhysW

@TildalWave shrugs doesn't feel right :P

TildalWave

@RhysW IIRC there is already a question like that, let me find it

RhysW

@TildalWave i wasnt sure about that one either though, because 'currently' is very hard to be future proof, so the question uses its use after a while

TildalWave

13:04

@RhysW there are roughly 4 questions that apply:

9

Q: What are the constraints for a successful robotic mission to Europa?

Of all the destinations within our solar system, the one that intrigues me the most is Europa. Every location has its own merits and beauty, but I'm most optimistic about finding life on Europa. It's all under ice, but perhaps there's enough warm water to be hospitable to life. Putting aside the ...

life robotic-missions

5

Q: Are there plans for another mission to Titan?

I've always liked the idea of exploring the moon Titan, most likely because of the atmosphere, pressure, and the fact that it has stable bodies of liquids at the surface. Although it's very cold, these factors may increase the chance of life being there. So, does anyone know if and when we will s...

titan probe future-missions

11

Q: How to explore subsurface oceans (cheaply)?

There are dozens of speculative proposals to explore Europa, Enceladus, and possibly other Solar System bodies (including Sedna and other Trans-Neptunians!) that may be endowed with liquid water under a crust of ice (due to tidal heating or radioactive decay). One of them (IIRC) was sending crawl...

life water planet

11

Q: Why so few aerobot missions?

In 1996-1997, I became extremely enthusiastic about the space exploration prospects for aerobot technology. There seem to be at least 10 celestial bodies suitable for aerobot deployments: Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, Enceladus, Europa, & Titan. I even published my master...

aerobot

possibly others... but yours isn't a duplicate of any as far as I can tell

RhysW

point proven @TildalWave xD

the answer to the first one answers my question though

'no' because they dont have the right stuff (Read: AI) yet

one thing they could do about the landing situation, if its too uneven, why not just hover above the ice, blast a jet of flame at it, let it cool and itll be flat and landable, waters good like that

TildalWave

13:19

Possible rep train:

5

Q: Did NASA nuke Jupiter?

There's this interesting story: Did NASA Accidentally “Nuke” Jupiter? Long story short: On September 21, 2003 Galileo is deorbited in order to prevent eventuality of contamination of Europa. It descends into Jupiter atmosphere. October 19, 2003 an unexplained "blotch" appears on surface of Jup...

nuclear jupiter myth-busting galileo

RhysW

@TildalWave given that only NASA can answer this im not sure what he expects

if there was a big cover up no one is going to risk their job / life just to satisfy the need of a stranger

TildalWave

@RhysW Not really, the two answers are both correct in saying the fission chain reaction wouldn't happen... they still did drop a "dirty bomb" on Jupiter tho LOL

but that's like a fart into the monsoon really :)

RhysW

i still think its humourous that we were so desperate to protect the potential water moon that they scuttled it into jupiter

perhaps our blind ignorance that all life must rely on water will be our undoing

insistence, not ignorance

TildalWave

@RhysW well yes, but Jupiter is so radioactive you can hear it between two radio stations with analogue radios quite clearly from at least 588 million km away... it's like complaining we shed a tear into an ocean

RhysW

@TildalWave not complaining, just find it humorous!

TildalWave

13:27

@RhysW yup I know you were not... that FUD article that's mentioned in the question is ;)

RhysW

ahh, it doesnt exactly look like a reliable source tbh

TildalWave

Also, see some other work by the same author: His writings claim that advanced civilizations exist or once existed on the Moon, Mars and on some of the moons of Jupiter and Saturn, and that NASA and the United States government have conspired to keep these facts secret. — gerrit 1 hour ago

yup it's a rep train... the upvotes on the question have slowed down, the upvotes on the two answers have gone berserk :) I'm curious to see how many votes they gather in total... good indication of our visibility

i.e. the question has gone nuclear :)))

currently #9 on the SuperCollider

RhysW

@TildalWave All aboard?

Rory Alsop

@TildalWave unfortunately Wednesdays aren't the biggest days for reptrains

:-)

but get aboard anyway

RhysW

friday is that day!

TildalWave

13:40

@RoryAlsop Unfortunately, I don't have anything to add to what's IMO already well explained

@RhysW It is? I thought it's Mondays, but I'll take your word for it... I'm good at unwittingly avoiding rep trains, it's what I specialize in also on other SE sites LOL

anyway, I've reached my 1k which is sufficient for the moment... I can edit without approval and do damage otherwise, like closing e.t.c. :))

RhysW

@TildalWave fridays at the workplace.se are known as our idiotic questions day, no one seems to post anything coherent

Donald.McLean

13:59

I have yet to earn a single rep on this site. Go me.

Rory Alsop

@Donald.McLean well, you'd need to ask or answer a question :-)

Donald.McLean

@RoryAlsop I'm not much of an asker, and so far, questions that I could actually write a decent answer for, have already been answered by the time I see them.

Donald.McLean

14:26

There. An answer!

TildalWave

14:36

@Donald.McLean I didn't find any reference that would attribute this idea to Robert C. Truax (besides that news article), but I did find more on the "space truck" idea in the LEO on the Cheap -Methods for Achieving Drastic Reductions In Space Launch Costs (Air University Research Report AU-ARI-93-8, Lt. Col. John R. London III) attributing the idea to "Colonel Wormington" (Chapters 7 to 10, Page 4)

Oh, there's a new answer with a reference to Traux' idea

Donald.McLean

@TildalWave I was assuming that this was one of those cases where the relevant citations would be to paper, rather than digital, resources.

TildalWave

@Donald.McLean well the paper was digitized LOL :)

The paper I linked to in my comment actually also references "Captain R. C. Truax"... maybe you could work it in your answer, add some relevant short excerpts ;)

Donald.McLean

Just saying that there's still lots of stuff that isn't on the web at all, or can't be accessed for free.

TildalWave

@Donald.McLean Sure... loads

Donald.McLean

However, thanks for finding that. I'll take a look and see if I can't find an appropriate quote. However, the fundamentals of my answer are essentially correct.

TildalWave

14:43

The paper also mentions "Truax Engineering, Inc. (TEI)"... I'm not too familiar with what's described in it, but looks like a good start for finding info relevant to the question... there's "space truck" idea described in it also

Donald.McLean

The funny thing though is that it appears that Truax was wrong. The solution isn't simpler systems, but rather better computers that can help engineers to manage the complexity with fewer errors.

RhysW

i always assumed the main cost was getting the damn things off our planet, stupid gravity

Donald.McLean

@RhysW It's more getting it off the planet without blowing up.

RhysW

@Donald.McLean potato potatoe

Donald.McLean

15:08

There. A better answer based on an actual source. Thank you @TildalWave.

TildalWave

15:47

@Donald.McLean Thanks!

RhysW

2

A: Does NASA have any plans for future Mars rovers after Curiosity?

Nasa is planning another rover for a 2020 arrival. To keep costs down the plan is to use a chassis similar to Curiosity but with a different set of instruments. NASA's Science Definition Team issued a report earlier this month outlining four major goals for the mission: Explore an astrobiolog...

the new design makes me feel edgy

TildalWave

It appears we got ourselves our very first Space Exploration troll:

-4

A: Did NASA nuke Jupiter?

Certainly. Judging by the size of the crater (see image below, at the right, below the equator), it was a 1.21 Gigaton device. However, Jupiter is made of softer matter than earth, so it could have been smaller. NASA claimed that the attack was in response to Jupiterian suport of the Martian in...

RhysW

one fault at the segment that attaches three wheels to it and you lose the entire side

TildalWave

"This true-color simulated view of Jupiter is composed of 4 images taken by NASA's Cassini spacecraft on December 7, 2000." (Source: NASA's JPL Space Images) I.e. nearly 3 years before Galileo was deorbited into Jupiter's atmosphere. Please, patch your tinfoil hat, it's leaking your thoughts all over the Internet! — TildalWave 10 mins ago

Was I too harsh?

RhysW

@TildalWave nope, you were too soft

TildalWave

15:50

@RhysW hehehe :) well, I'm not making it harsher, it's in the delete queue so hardly worth the bother LOL

RhysW

@TildalWave people who blatantly try and have fun on a site dedicated to knowledge sickens me </sarcasm>

TildalWave

@RhysW it could still do circles and send us 360° landscapes :)

They should call it Marvin :))

RhysW

@TildalWave ill admit, the thought of a rover stuck circling made me laugh

TildalWave

> Marvin was left in the swamp, his false leg having trapped him in the mud, so he spent just over 1.5 million years walking around in a circle, "just to make the point." He planned to keep walking in a circle for another million years before trying it backward. "Just for the variety, you understand."

RhysW

@TildalWave ?

TildalWave

15:55

Marvin the Paranoid Android

Marvin, the Paranoid Android, is a fictional character in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy series by Douglas Adams. Marvin is the ship's robot aboard the starship Heart of Gold. Originally built as a failed prototype of Sirius Cybernetics Corporation's GPP (Genuine People Personalities) technology, Marvin is afflicted with severe depression and boredom, in part because he has a "brain the size of a planet" which he is seldom, if ever, given the chance to use. Indeed, the true horror of Marvin's existence is that no task he could be given would occupy even the tiniest fraction of his ...

Undo

16:06

@Tildal Man, I wish I had a diamond to whack that Jupiter post.

RhysW

@Undo downvotes are good enough, they auto delete it past a certain point

TildalWave

true that ^

and I've flagged it to be peer reviewed in the low quality posts review queue ... it's probably already pending deletion

Undo

@RhysW Still, it would be more fun to just whack it. If I get the mod position, I'm going to write a user script to change the 'delete' and 'undelete' buttons into 'whack' and 'unwhack'.

RhysW

@Undo nah man, thats whack! (no one has said that in the last decade :P )

Undo

@Rhys 'thump' then.

TildalWave

16:11

I've heard it called "mod hammer" before

Undo

@Tildal That refers to the diamond itself.

Just saw the Jupiter post in the VLQ queue.

TildalWave

@Undo I thought that's referring to Thor's wrath :O

Undo

space.stackexchange.com/review/low-quality-posts/489

TildalWave

@Undo yup, currently yours and my votes for deletion... we need 3 more

others will follow suit once they stop laughing at it ;)

Undo

If I get a Diamond, I'll have sooo much fun with userscripts - I'm imagining changing delete to nuke, mod menu to awesome menu, etc.

RhysW

16:17

@Undo dont count your rabbits before your waffles are cooked!

Undo

@Rhys I know - I'm kind of nervous :(

RhysW

@Undo i didnt mean to be mean, just wanted to make a rabbit and waffle reference

Undo

Of course. No day is complete without rabbits and waffles.

And unicorns.

Got to go now - should be back in a few hours...

RhysW

@Undo cooking mroe waffles/

TildalWave

@RhysW I've never had waffles like that... only ones shaped like that are the bought ones which I'm not touching, and I don't have the waffle maker of my own, because I usually avoid breakfasts

RhysW

16:22

thats an american waffle, in the UK they are circular and flat and havent got holes in

traditionally

actually, we have two waffles

one isnt considered breakfast-y though

TildalWave

@RhysW yup I've had those :)

these on the photo are made out of a dough similar to pancakes?

RhysW

@TildalWave they are nice

@TildalWave yeah, had with syrup mostly

Donald.McLean

I don't have any rep to actually do anything here. Bummer.

TildalWave

@RhysW yup I thought so... so the bigger the holes, the more syrup you get onto them ... and why would Americans have any smaller rations, huh? :))

Donald.McLean

Mmmmm, waffles.

TildalWave

16:26

@Donald.McLean You'll get there... I've +1-ed your answer now that is adding a reference as per request by OP ;) @DeerHunter is pretty knowledgeable on the Space Exploration front, probably a lot more than I am personally, so I figured he wanted more even before the comment. Anyway, it's sorted now :)

Donald.McLean

Our favorite is the American style waffles made from scratch with whole wheat flour and farm fresh buttermilk. There's a dairy farm that comes to one of the Baltimore farmers markets.

TildalWave

Oups... the request was by @DeerHunter but the question by @AlanSE... anyway, they're both into it a great deal more than I could claim for myself (I love the subject tho, but I don't live next to a rocket launcher LOL)

@Donald.McLean We have self-serving milk stations last few years... pretty neat, and good milk too

Donald.McLean

Here's a new entry for the "unfortunate title" award for news articles: You Won't Need a PIN When You Pay for Everything with Your Face (the thing is - I would like to keep my face, thank you)

Undo

16:45

Anyone want to be a guinea pig for a beta iOS SE client?

Donald.McLean

17:27

How would that work?

TildalWave

17:53

@TildalWave, that's what THEY say. Don't help cover up the slaughter of innocent Jupiterians. — ugoren 14 mins ago

Had to have some fun with it LOL

@ugoren - I'm in charge of covering this whole mess up, please don't blow my cover! I'm a Jupiterian secret agent working undercover for a Jovian ambassador to the UN, and I can tell you it's a mess. Jupiter is no more. It's gone. It has ceased to be due to all the nuclear waste the Reptilians have sent there. What you people from Earth see on the night skies is a laser projection from ISS. But hush, don't tell anyone. — TildalWave 1 min ago

PearsonArtPhoto

20:30

I wonder if I'll hit 3K before anyone hits 2K. Seems fairly likely at this point in time...

Undo

@PearsonArtPhoto Quite likely...

PearsonArtPhoto

I should just not answer any questions until I hit 3K...

Undo

Not a bad idea!

@PearsonArtPhoto Photos from WWDC, if you're interested: chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/10573377#10573377

PearsonArtPhoto

@Undo What's that?

Undo

@PearsonArtPhoto Apple World Wide Developer's Conference

PearsonArtPhoto

20:36

Ahhh.

Apple, that's all I care to know really...

My brain just shuts down at that word...

Undo

I won't hold it against you.

PearsonArtPhoto

LOL.

Undo

@PearsonArtPhoto I'm starting to get anxious about mod nominations :(

PearsonArtPhoto

It'll happen when it happens. No worries.

Undo

@PearsonArtPhoto I know that - but I don't know if I'll get picked.

Donald.McLean

20:53

We're an almost all Apple household. We currently have 12 Apple devices, 1 Sony, 2 Toshiba and 1 Samsung.

PearsonArtPhoto

We have a few apple products that collect dust, but 5 Android devices, and 4 computers, all Windows.

Donald.McLean

We Apple stuff because it just works for us, but everyone's needs and experiences are different.

Undo

@Donald.McLean If you're interested in beta testing, erwaysoftware.com/stackboard/beta

Donald.McLean

@Undo I'll look at that when I get home. Thanks!

Undo

You're welcome!

Paul A. Clayton

21:15

Is there a way to tell how close one came to earning the Beta badge? Earlier the requirement for the Beta badge was (I think) just earning three badges during private beta, but I receive the impression that other requirements have been added (and are kept secret to avoid robot badge earning and seeking to meet minimum requirements). Because of the secrecy aspect, I doubt I could find out where I fell short, but a % indicator might not be excessively revealing.

JohnB

33

A: Why are beta badges awarded at all?

Private beta participants contributed a not-insignificant amount of their time put up with bugs, downtime, and errors filed bug reports and helped us troubleshoot errors populated the site with a lot of quality questions and answers so we don't go live with a "ghost town" For that, they get ...

Participate actively in a site's private beta phase
Not just 3 bronze badges anymore, but the exact requirements not disclosed to prevent users from just doing the bare minimum.

that's all I can find

Undo

For reference, I got a Beta badge.

JohnB

for reference?

TildalWave

21:30

@PaulA.Clayton I think it's probably fair enough assessment saying that if you fulfilled your commitment with participation both on the main site and in meta, you'll most definitely get it, possibly sooner than you fulfill commitment... I got mine on 23rd, and my commitment was fulfilled I believe on 28th? Or thereabouts

Paul A. Clayton

@JohnB Yeah, that was what I found. In terms of participation, I have been close to the boundary of those who earned Beta badges (34), so I was curious about how far I fell short. If my delayed reading of the About page was the tipping point, I would be a bit annoyed with myself. I think I asked two questions during private beta, so I was not exactly a PearsonArtPhoto!

TildalWave

@JohnB Yeah Jeff likes to be secretive LOL

JohnB

@PaulA.Clayton I don't think I ever read the about page, so there's that

Paul A. Clayton

@TildalWave Hmm. I did not know one could earn the badge after the site had entered public beta.

TildalWave

@PaulA.Clayton Oh, good point... dunno, I've seen delays with badges before, I've been waiting nearly a month for the mortarboard badge on Sec.SE

JohnB

21:33

@TildalWave :S you should probably post on meta about that

shouldn't take that long

TildalWave

I've actually made over 200 rep in a day multiple times in the meantime LOL

JohnB

@TildalWave what does it say at the bottom here? security.stackexchange.com/reputation

Paul A. Clayton

I do need to work on fulfilling my commitment. (I have been thinking about trying to come up with something about fuel depots, dependent multiple launches, and individual launch capacity from an economic perspective.)

TildalWave

@JohnB mSO is for the big boys, I get shivers down my spine thinking I need to go ask something for my own amusement, or to tell someone database could update more frequently LOL

JohnB

rep cap was reached via rep from upvotes *only* on X days
earned at least 200 reputation on X days

something like that

TildalWave

21:35

@JohnB rep cap was reached via rep from upvotes only on 3 days

earned at least 200 reputation on 3 days

Sounds about right

JohnB

wait, you do have it

security.stackexchange.com/help/badges/25/…

(you only get it once)

TildalWave

@JohnB Yes... I said I waited for it a long time, not that I never got it ;)

JohnB

oh. Duh.

TildalWave

@JohnB you can get it multiple times?

JohnB

@TildalWave no just ignore me, sometimes I like to read imaginary things

TildalWave

21:37

@JohnB It's OK I have one of those days too

but it's definitely a one time badge... even the bear has a single one, he'd have to have 200 by now then

security.stackexchange.com/help/badges/27/legendary

he's got the legendary badge in May LOL

@JohnB There's a nice shiny button at the bottom of that page saying "Trigger Reputation Recalc"... do I dare click it? :))

JohnB

@TildalWave :O don't!

well do, and tell me what it does

but if something goes wrong it's not my fault

TildalWave

@JohnB I can try it on some site I have less rep on... wait, I'll risk one

@JohnB I tried on DIY ... nothing changed on my profile, not that I can see anyway

JohnB

......yet

TildalWave

@JohnB true... will keep my eyes peeled and let you know if anything changed

JohnB

TildalWave

21:49

@JohnB nice... beats like a heart

JohnB

it was the best one I could find

TildalWave

sadly, it has an ad at the bottom

JohnB

oooh that's a nice one

dd3

22:45

@JohnB: I got a beta badge, and I've only got a closed question and an answer to a closed question, plus many tag wiki edits.

Paul A. Clayton

23:37

@dd3 Now I am starting to feel cheated. :-\ During private beta I asked two questions--one even earning "Nice Question"--, suggested an edit, earned Quorum (and Informed--I did actually read the About page during private beta [17 July]) and posted 10 comments (at least one of which I think was upvoted). (The only reason I have an answer now is that I caught an easy physics question before anyone else had answered it.) I suspect I was fairly close to earning the Beta badge.

(Yes, it is "just a badge", but this is the first opportunity I had for earning a Beta badge and it seemed very easy to earn for a silver badge [somewhat comparable to Enthusiast]. Sigh.)

dd3

@PaulA.Clayton: I have no idea how this works, but I do understand your pain. I am sad that I did not find out about the biology proposal in time to commit and be a part of the private beta.

Paul A. Clayton

@dd3 Ah, you are a biology.se user. I have posted a couple of answers there (on speculative not technical questions) but have not been especially active. Lately I have not been doing much to earn reputation anywhere. (I also seem to have a "slowest gun in the East" issue--procrastinating about answering questions--; I also seem to somewhat often post comments that might make a decent start for an answer.

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