English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

I watched the footage of the last planes landing in Duesseldorf earlier today, that wasn't an easy watch even just sitting in your chair. Let alone sitting in a chair in the sky.

tchrist

You cancel trains when it's windy??

Never heard of that.

RegDwigнt

No we don't. We cancel trains when they start crashing into fallen trees.

I don't want to crash into a fallen tree at 320 km/h.

tchrist

Knot good.

RegDwigнt

12:14 AM

@tchrist well to be fair, you've never heard of trains, period. :-P

You just cancelled them all right off the bat.

tchrist

BF12 == SS1

> The Saffir-Simpson Hurricane Wind Scale is a 1 to 5 rating based on a hurricane's sustained wind speed. This scale estimates potential property damage. Hurricanes reaching Category 3 and higher are considered major hurricanes because of their potential for significant loss of life and damage. Category 1 and 2 storms are still dangerous, however, and require preventative measures.
In the western North Pacific, the term "super typhoon" is used for tropical cyclones with sustained winds exceeding 150 mph.

RegDwigнt

The most damage is usually from roof tiles. We do love our rooves pwetty in good old Europe.

tchrist

@RegDwigнt I've trained here. Rarely. Historically. I know others who take them over hill and dale.

@RegDwigнt Slate.

RegDwigнt

So anything above 10 beaufort, you're sure to read about some houses that no longer wear a hat.

tchrist

That's dumb.

RegDwigнt

12:16 AM

But it's so pwetty.

tchrist

I don't think a year goes by that I don't get 100 mph winds.

RegDwigнt

Unless it hits your car. Then you bitch about it. But I don't own a car, so I bitch not.

tchrist

And yes, some structures incur damage.

RegDwigнt

@tchrist well we do get those occasionally as you say in gusts. Those don't count. Unless your house needs a new roof and your car needs a new car.

tchrist

One of those blew down a big giant cottonwood of mine and would have smashed my car had I had it in the driveway.

@RegDwigнt Yeah. We don't get sustained at 100, just gusts.

RegDwigнt

12:17 AM

This here is like once every three or five years.

So, like, right now, stuff's been falling over all over Germany for the last 20 hours straight.

The trains only got canceled in the evening. Because they figured it's easier to care for 500 people stuck in a station than for 500 people stuck in the middle of some field.

tchrist

Did the weathermen issue flying cats-and-dogs warnings?

Small dogs, mostly.

Or non-big cats.

They do here.

If they aren't tied down, look for them in Kansas.

RegDwigнt

Apparently they had been doing it for the last week or so, but as I said, I only got wind of it all today. Quite literally.

tchrist

Nothing will collapse on top of you in the middle of a big field.

But in a station? Poof!

Cerberus

@tchrist I don't know, this naming stuff is stupid.

RegDwigнt

My stance is that there's no point in knowing the weather. You go outside, there's your weather. There's always weather outside. And you always have to deal with it anyway. If you don't, then you don't go outside in the first place.

tchrist

12:21 AM

@Cerberus A hundred billion percent agree.

Cerberus

@RegDwigнt You could stay inside instead.

Or you could take public transport rather than your bike.

RegDwigнt

@tchrist nah those stations are not maintained by Russians.

Cerberus

Or you could bring your umbrella.

tchrist

@RegDwigнt Well, there are times I like to know whether the road I need to take is open.

RegDwigнt

@Cerberus one of the presents the lil one will be getting tomorrow is an umbrella actually.

A total coincidence.

Cerberus

12:22 AM

@tchrist I really hate it when people feel they must play along with foreign trends, or whatever this is.

RegDwigнt

Just happened to be on his wishlist.

Cerberus

A good present.

tchrist

The Flying Nun 1967 - 1970 Opening and Closing Theme (With Snippet)

►

Cerberus

@tchrist It is no hurricane, no.

But we had 120 km/h in the north, I believe.

And 11 Beaufort.

But here it was just a storm.

tchrist

Knot having it.

Cerberus

12:23 AM

Some damage, nothing huge.

RegDwigнt

@tchrist yeah well. I dunno. Just last Tuesday I went to work only to get stuck in a traffic jam half a mile away from my house. Because apparently the river had risen by 15 feet and half the city and the highway was flooded.

And I was like, oh cool. Took some pictures of the river. Got to work a bit later than usual. Who cares.

tchrist

How could you get to work if the highway was flooded?

RegDwigнt

Very, very slowly. And not via the highway.

But that's my whole point.

tchrist

What the hell, you have more than one road to get somewhere?

RegDwigнt

If you have to deal with it, you have to deal with it regardless.

tchrist

12:25 AM

You must live in the low countries.

RegDwigнt

And if you don't have to deal with it, you just shrug and go home and then it doesn't matter anyway.

@Cerberus so yeah you're in the corridor, then.

Cerberus

You obviously don't care about discomfort and wasting time.

@RegDwigнt No idea!

RegDwigнt

Well your description matches the images I saw on YouTube.

12 in the north, 12 in the south. A corridor of like 9 in the middle.

Her face tho, lol.

tchrist

Your weathermen are allowed to wear jeans and t-shirts!?

RegDwigнt

I have no idea who this lady is. Or what channel that is.

But yes of course they are.

tchrist

12:32 AM

What do they wear in the summer, speedos and bikinis?

RegDwigнt

Some actually do.

You're forgetting we're not in the Bible Belt.

tchrist

Hedonists.

RegDwigнt

Life is short and you only get the one.

Better not waste it all on reading how you should stone yourself to death if you ever see your dad without a shirt.

Actual rule from actual Bible.

tchrist

Ecclesiastes I know well.

@RegDwigнt No shirt-cocking in this chat.

Sybarites.

RegDwigнt

I've only read the whole Bible, start to finish, for much the same reason I watched Titanic.

I like my opinions informed and I like to actually argue the point.

tchrist

12:38 AM

To see it founder?

RegDwigнt

Nah, so I can say something more substantial than "it sucked and if you liked it you're a moron and I'm smart".

tchrist

RegDwigнt

Which might well be true, mind. It's just that it's not the kind of argument that will hold in any kind of court.

tchrist

It's part of our cultural heritage.

You recognize the threads.

RegDwigнt

That, too.

You don't know who you are until you know who shaped you.

Why does everyone on MuseScore ask for help in naming their pieces.

Just name it "Judy" if it's all the same to you.

tchrist

12:41 AM

Why does everyone on ELU make SWRs?

Judy sounds like a Jewish dude.

Dudgy might be better.

RegDwigнt

Because that's how language works. You don't combine a couple simple words in a couple simple ways to create endlessly complex and novel thoughts. Instead you create a single dedicated word for every thought imaginable.

tchrist

THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE

RegDwigнt

Yeah.

Someone should just post "Highlander" as the answer to every SWR that they see.

@tchrist it's a veiled reference to Guy Ritchie's Snatch.

Snatch | You Can Call Me Susan If It Makes You Happy

►

tchrist

M

RegDwigнt

Anyway I'll go fetch some sleep.

Before that: quiz time!

Gubaidulina - De Profundis

►

Just from listening to the first couple seconds, name the instrument.

I was only able to do so because I recognized the hints in the score.

It sounds nothing like the real thing.

@Robusto.

tchrist

12:52 AM

chinagourmetmenu.com/CG%20Boulder%20DineIn.pdf

Abacus time, better known as Chinese takeaway.

RegDwigнt

Egg drop soup? Eww.

tchrist

No, Hunan Style Tofu.

RegDwigнt

I might be going out to a Japanese restaurant this Friday. For the first time in a decade, like.

I've been meaning to ask Rob how to order one beer in Japanese.

tchrist

Scroll to the bottom; it gets weird.

RegDwigнt

I did. And it did.

tchrist

12:53 AM

Ichi Maß.

RegDwigнt

No, more like, a Kirin.

I only still remember how Bill Murray does it in Lost in Translation. You just say biru and mime the height of a pint with a little gesture of your both hands.

Anyway, I'm off for tonight. Thanks for the lovely company. Everybody do take the quiz above.

Nighty-night.

Robusto

1:40 AM

@RegDwigнt Took me 84 seconds until I recognized some accordion sounds beneath all the shuffling.

@RegDwigнt biiru kudasai is one way

Or if you really want to specify one beer and no more, try ippon biiru kudasai.

Understand that ippon is pronounced i'pon (four syllables, with a space where the asterisk).

The n gets a beat by itself.

To order a second beer, try mo ippon kudasai.

And to get the waiter or sushi chef's attention, try chotto sumimasen ga ... (a bit not finished but ...) or (a bit excuse me but ...)

You're going to fuck up the pronunciation, of course. And they're not going to know what the fuck you're talking about. At which point you can blame everything on your friend in America, and everyone will give each other knowing glances, laugh, and think you're a dork anyway.

If all else fails, order in English. Everyone speaks English (eigo), right?

Say eigo hanasemasu ka and watch them say nööö, ich kann nichts auf Englisch.

Cerberus

2:59 AM

@RegDwigнt Okay, we're having some extreme rain now.

There is wind, but it's probably not extreme.

Good luck on the morrow!

Cerberus

3:58 AM

> Op sommige plekken, vooral aan de kust, werden orkaankrachten gemeten met windsnelheden boven de 130 kilometer per uur. Op een booreiland ten westen van Texel kwamen volgens Weeronline zelfs windstoten voor die net niet de 200 kilometer per uur aantikten.

Færd

9:19 AM

> Your answer was too short = You answered too ____.

Something like briefly works. But can you somehow fill in the blank with short/shortly?

Seems like long and short as adverbs cannot be freely used with just any verbs:

> *talk/speak/answer short/long

Matt E. Эллен

@Færd I think shortly is too strongly related to time, IMO. Short doesn't seem right to me, but perhaps some people say it. Like some people say "the show has run long"

RegDwigнt

9:48 AM

@Robusto thank you. Now time to learn all that in just four days.

@Robusto yeah was 62 seconds for me. (But only because I recognized that special icon for the register setting before the first bar, and the articulation marks for the direction of the bellows, also in that bar.) At 84 seconds it's finally obvious, but before that it's anyone's guess really.

@Cerberus meh. 200 km/h? That's no hurricane by tchrist's standards. Go shopping.

I do find it funny how you people say 200 kilometers per clock.

Then you need a new clock I guess.

Try a Swiss make, those are more robust.

Matt E. Эллен

11:21 AM

@Færd according to the dictionary, shortly can be used like that.

but I would not use it like that

Robusto

3:17 PM

@RegDwigнt Since it was you linking, I suspected from the first that it might be an accordion, but I couldn't confirm that supposition till the time I mentioned.

@RegDwigнt My advice: paste them into Google Translate Japanese and have it "speak" the words for you. That will get you closer than my written instructions.

Well, I just tried that and it's a bit flaky. I condensed a bunch of what I told you into one sentence, which is written in hiragana as ちょっとすみませんが、もいっぽんびいるください. And the lady voice on Google Translate can't seem to figure it out. Here's what it says the Japanese means:

I shit you not.

In any case, she also fucks up the pronunciation, at least on my computer.

Fucking Google Translate. Are you good for anything at all?

Matt E. Эллен

I've no idea about Japanese, but "ippon biiru kudasai" must mean something about beer? Japanese beer please?

Robusto

hai

Here it is when I put in the katakana for biiru: ちょっとすみませｎが、もいっぽんビイルください。

My bad, I guess, but the Japanese drink so much frickin' beer you'd think the software would understand it in the first transliteration

@MattE.Эллен いっぽん (ippon) means "one cylindrical thing" ... meaning a beer bottle or glass.

Matt E. Эллен

3:32 PM

oh!

Robusto

So here was my mistake. Being lazy, I typed the first pass in English transliteration, figuring GT could sort it out. It couldn't.

So then I typed it in in hiragana, quickly, and GT failed again.

So then I typed it in in hiragana, CR at each word boundary, and GT still fucked it up.

Then I added the katakana "biiru" and then GT went "Oh, you mean biiru ..." and succeeded.

The pronunciation is now correct as well.

One final touch, see if you can spot the difference:

ちょっとすみませんが、もいっぽんビールください。

GT actually takes very little prodding to fall off the rails.

But the translation is now correct: "I'm sorry, but please beer again."

Well, it's close enough. There is no precise distinction of "one cylinder of beer" but I'll let that pass.

Ah, I see another error of mine. It should be ちょっとすみませんが、もう一本ビールください。

The "mo" should be long: "mou" ... that was on me and my rusty Japanese. Also, I touched it up with the kanji "一本" for "いっぽ" (ippon, "one cylinder").

本 is the counter originally for "scroll" ... which is why it's used for cylindrical things. Cylinders that are longer than they are wide, btw. Like scrolls.

Also it's pronounced hon by itself, and it can be -pon in combination, as in 一本 (ippon).

Note that 本 is used for modern books as well, which are not cylindrical scrolls anymore, but don't get confused by that.

If anyone's interested in how the Japanese use counters, here's a decent introduction. It's not so different from certain artifacts in English—"two slices of toast","three sheets of paper", etc.

Anyway, that's enough Japanese lessons for today.

@Robusto Dolt, you left off the ん. It should be いっぽん, not いっぽ ...

Cerberus

5:28 PM

@Færd I would recast the sentence: no reason to say it like that. But, if I had to, I might say succinctly.

Cerberus

6:30 PM

> Naar schatting 82 procent van de patiënten ervaart slechts milde symptomen, vertelde Maria Van Kerkhove van de WHO vrijdag op een persconferentie. Ze baseerde zich op de epidemiologische gegevens van 17.000 patiënten in China. Bij 15 procent van de patiënten zijn de verschijnselen ernstig en 3 procent van de patiënten belandt in kritieke toestand door de longontsteking. Daarvan overlijden er minder dan twee op de drie, aldus Van Kerkhove

> De ernst van de ziekte en de kans op overlijden neemt toe naarmate de patiënten ouder zijn.

@tchrist So, apparently, it remains true that older patients suffer worse effects.

RegDwigнt

7:27 PM

@Robusto why yes, and I can even tell you what it is!

Google Translate is exceptionally good for being put in a pipe and smoked.

tchrist

8:40 PM

@Cerberus It appears so, but even "young" people have died (>20 && <50). It doesn't seem to cause bad cases in young children though.

Cerberus

@tchrist A larger proportion than from influenza?

tchrist

@Cerberus Don't know.

Cerberus

9:00 PM

@tchrist With SARS, I seem to remember you, healthy people were at risk disproportionately?

tchrist

@Cerberus That was the 1918 flu.

Cerberus

If the disease should strike here, perhaps I shall recommend that my parents have their groceries delivered instead of going to the supermarket.

tchrist

The Urgent Questions Scientists Are Asking About Coronavirus: Let’s start with what we don’t know.

We know too little.

Written by "Dr. Leung is an infectious disease epidemiologist and dean of medicine at the University of Hong Kong."

It's Over

9:18 PM

@Cerberus AFAIK the most important thing to do, as with any coronavirus, is washing hands.

Cerberus

@tchrist So we do.

@It'sOver Yes.

washes paws

It's Over

IIRC, and I dunno where I read this, shaking hands is worse than kissing in transmitting the disease

Cerberus

Hmm.

tchrist

You put your hands places you don't normally put your lips.

It's Over

Do wolves from the underworld like water?

Cerberus

9:19 PM

I'm a dog, and no!

I don't know: a sick person's tiny drops of saliva should be all over his face.

It's Over

@tchrist Yeah, it's not supposed to be particularly surprising, just a sharp reminder

Cerberus

Touching his cheek with your lips, ouch.

It's Over

Did they find out if it's airborne yet?

Cerberus

Haven't we always assumed that it was?

It's Over

It's why people put on masks, for sure, but we didn't know for sure yet

Eh, at least things like this remind people to have some vitamin C

The scary thing about this should be that there's a lot we don't know, and hopefully that'll resolve itself in a month or two. Other than that, how is it any more dangerous than avian flu?

Cerberus

9:25 PM

It has already proven more dangerous than the previous avian flu!

It's Over

H1N1 infects and kills many every year, but most people don't give a damn.

Cerberus

Aren't viruses like this always contagious via air?

I doubt whether taking vitamins would help, unless you have a serious deficiency.

tchrist

@It'sOver They aren't sure if it's been weaponized vai aerosol infection yet.

@Cerberus No, through direct contact but including of sneeze drops. The question is weather it's more than that.

It's Over

@Cerberus YES!

Hysteria and panic are the worst things that happen in these events.

Cerberus

@tchrist Oh, okay. Is that likely?

It's Over

9:36 PM

Who knows.

Cerberus

From what I heard, the virus cannot survive long outside the body, and it needs water.

@It'sOver Besides death, yes.

It's Over

@Cerberus Almost no virus can

Cerberus

Right.

It's Over

@Cerberus sure, I mean in the noninfected crowd

The infected have already gotten the worst of it

Cerberus

So how could this virus be airborne but outside tiny drops of water?

@It'sOver I have heard some people discriminating against Chinese people, or even all those of East-Asian descent.

It's Over

9:38 PM

@Færd I've seen, occasionally, "this answer is too succinct"

On HNQ and stuff

@Cerberus Oh I've had my fair share of some folks here spewing shit like that

Cerberus

@It'sOver Oh, really? You are of such descent?

It's Over

I can't put it into words, but it's sorta empty, in the sense that you don't have an informed (and thus, rigid) opinion of people two thousand miles away, and both very resonant, in that it's so easy to take racist assumptions too far in a vicious cycle

@Cerberus No, I mean I hear some people here spewing racist remarks about the Chinese

Is it even technically correct to call it race?

Cerberus

The Chinese are certainly no race.

And the idea of dividing mankind into races is somewhat archaic.

It's Over

Oh, "descent" makes sense. But "descentist" is wordy

Cerberus

And the divisions chosen not based on genetic differences.

But one can discriminate against any group.

And, as far as human races go, I have heard there is discrimination against anyone of East-Asian descent.

It's Over

9:44 PM

Three-headed beings, those $#%%

Cerberus

For how would a Frenchman on the street see from which East-Asian country a stranger was?

It's Over

Exactamundo

Cerberus

@It'sOver How many do you know?

It's Over

Who cares, as long as it's not my group, I can be ignorant and pointlessly angry about it

Cerberus

Hmm.

Both at the same time?

It's Over

9:46 PM

As much anger as I can spare. Most of it goes for politicians

And that's another group I'm not a part of

I'm starting to see a pattern

What if POTUS is secretly the tooth fairy and I'm being unfair.

In other news, apparently Scorsese nodded off during Eminem's song

LOL

It could be some tabloid hoax though

tchrist

@It'sOver This is why they wear masks.

It's Over

Perfect. I can blame the French for the mask shortage.

tchrist

@Cerberus Tell that to the Africans.

Cerberus

@tchrist I meant currently in certain Western cities, because of the plague.

tchrist

@Cerberus Yersinia pestis have we none, but that man's puppy is a prairie dog's son.

Cerberus

9:58 PM

It's Over

Grammarly is rubbish. Don't trust it. — TonyK 2 days ago

If I ever want to earn some easy rep on ELL, remind me to ask a question about Grammarly

I never got around to watching Game of Thrones so I've started reading the books now. Any tips?

Cerberus

Hah.

I have only watched the first three seasons, I think. Not read the book.

I don't know what tips to give to you.

It's Over

Well, not exactly a first impression, because last week I finished book one

but two things are immediately obvious. He's no Tolkien, and that might not be such a bad thing.

Tolkien's world feels more developed, to me, if that's possible or makes sense in the overall scheme of things. What GRRM does seems to be simply introducing new people, giving them some character (which authors usually fail at), but mostly keeping it at that.

At least till now.

The story is way more entertaining though, overall. I especially think the first 100 pages were very neatly done compared to LOTR's Fellowship of the Ring

My approach to all of this is very confused, though. For example, I first watched LotR movies, and then read the books.

And here, I knew about almost all of the big shocks, but I've managed to not let such things bother me much

@Cerberus I hear season 3 is a blast

1, 3 and 4 seem to get the most praise as far as I've seen

@It'sOver *not to let

Now I've gotta sleep before my English deteriorates further

journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/…

Cerberus

10:31 PM

@It'sOver The Lord of the Rings is indeed very slow in the beginning.

The first 50 pages or so are boring.

And only after page 200 or so does it get really interesting.

And there are later travelling episodes that are also boring, mainly by Frodo and Sam.

Sleep well.

@It'sOver A fun study.

Færd

10:49 PM

@Cerberus Good call. But I found myself in the middle of that sentence yesterday, fumbling for an apt continuation, to no avail. I thought I'd ask.

@MattE.Эллен (I don't know but) me neither!

.

Spanish Government to Ban Glorification of Franco Dictatorship

Cerberus

@Færd Ah, life is a tragedy!

Færd

> "In a democracy you don't pay tribute to dictators or tyrants," parliamentary spokeswoman Adriana Lastra said.
She did not spell out what would constitute "glorification."

Isn't that rich.

@Cerberus It's a staccato of tragedies. But that one wasn't too serious.

Cerberus

11:08 PM

@Færd Sounds like an ill-conceived law, then.

@Færd At least we have a new international crisis crowding out the old ones.

RegDwigнt

> Katyusha is the Russian equivalent of Katie, an endearing diminutive form of the name Katherine: Yekaterina →Katya →Katyusha. [citation needed]

Haha. Citation needed.

Fuck you, Wikipedia.

What's next? "Paris is the capital of France [citation needed]"?

Færd

11:33 PM

@Cerberus It is indeed. And for the left to pass it—and hand the freedom of speech torch to the far right—is crazy. They don't understand the value of freedom until they are divested of it.

Anyway, it struck me as strange, coming from a leftie European government.

@Cerberus Hmm which one do you mean?

If you mean my tiny tragedy, then my pleasure.

Cerberus

@Færd Yeah. That has been happening a lot, of late.

But the far left as well as the far right have been enemies of freedom, cf. communist states.

@Færd I actually mean the pandemic versus Trump's threats against Iran.

Færd

@Cerberus Exasperating.

@Cerberus True. I prefer to call those the authoritarian left.

Cerberus

@Færd Quite. It's mostly American language politics here.