English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Cerberus

2:15 AM

@RegDwigнt Ohh I want.

Why was Matt nonplussed?

@RegDwigнt I was got it to -100 exactly! Yay me.

@RegDwigнt Same here: we're lucky enough to be insensitive to alcohol addiction.

@Robusto Couldn't agree more.

But I am not really a fan of white wine or rosé. I mean, they're fine, but meh.

At tonight's birthday party, they only served white wine and rosé. Ugh! At least I got less drunk because of that.

@RegDwigнt Drunken bugger likes.

Is that your playing?

Dear Osip was not a good Soviet, though...

@Færd Congrats!

@AndrewLeach Yes, it seems to be increasing in volume. I wonder why.

Feeds

3:18 AM

0

Q: What is the word for using one word to replace another for cosmetic reasons?

I'm sure this is a dumb question, but I am having a total mental block. Is there a word for when you replace the verbal description of something in order to make it appear better? I'm thinking about something along the lines of "Despite the ____ changes of the law, nothing really changed" I don'...

single-word-requests

Færd

3:31 AM

@Cerberus Thanks!

Cerberus

De nada.

I read this article about being gay in Tehran.

Færd

Oh?

Cerberus

But it was written under A.

Færd

Did it mention high schoolers?

Cerberus

No?

Why?

Færd

3:32 AM

@Cerberus Under A?

Cerberus

Ahmadinejad.

I have to think about his spelling every time!

Færd

Well, sexually segregated schools are hotbeds of homosexual behavior.

@Cerberus Aha! hehe

Cerberus

@Færd Ah, OK.

Færd

So what did it say?

Cerberus

Yes, and also for very close, physical friendships.

Færd

3:33 AM

Of course.

Cerberus

Which may not be easily distinguished from homosexual relations by other people.

It was just describing this one bloke's experience.

It also said that there was this one park where 'cruising' was very common.

Feeds

0

Q: What is the difference between these two sentences

In that third week of November, I started school. and In the third week of November, I started school.

single-word-requests

Cerberus

The police did patrol in the park, but they couldn't really do anything.

Færd

Haha.

Cursing is common everywhere.

Sad to say maybe, but I find teens congregate and curse around freely in front of families in every park.

Cerberus

Three people needed to take an oath on the Quran that they had seen a sex act for those people to be found guilty, which almost never happened.

Færd

3:36 AM

Of course, not every kid is like that, but those who are don't feel restrained to indulge.

Cerberus

You mean cursing or cruising?

Færd

Damn. My mistake.

OK gotcha.

Cerberus

I'm disappointed in your lack of a sex obsession tonight.

Would you know which park this was? The article wisely didn't mention it, so you probably shouldn't either.

Færd

@Cerberus Well it's morning here.

I've run out of dreams.

@Cerberus No, I don't.

Cerberus

Here as well. But it counts as night.

Færd

3:40 AM

But I don't think it's limited to one park?

Cerberus

OK so apparently it's not so commonly known.

No, it wasn't limited to that park, according to the article, but it was a kind of hotspot.

Færd

@Cerberus Yeah, that shouldn't be three.

Unless it's two men and one woman or something.

Cerberus

Huh?

Færd

Well, a certain number of people would have to testify so that sexual culprits could be convicted.

Cerberus

Yes.

And the article said it had to be three in this case.

Færd

3:42 AM

I forget the exact number, but three sounds just off.

Cerberus

Hmm.

Færd

I think it's two men.

Cerberus

So you have slept a couple of hours, and you've just woken up because you could sleep no more?

Færd

But you can replace every man with two women.

Cerberus

I'm about to go to bed.

Hah.

Færd

3:43 AM

So the only way you'd get three is one man and two women.

Watching two guys having sex.

Cerberus

Hmm.

Færd

So racy.

Cerberus

Lovely scenario.

The Holy Book probably makes it all the racier.

Færd

@Cerberus No I slept all night.

Cerberus

Oh, that's good.

Færd

3:44 AM

Feel free to go, if you need to.

Cerberus

I'm going to brush my teeth in front of the computer.

The article also has this story about two men who loved together, but they were also colleagues at this company.

Færd

@Cerberus Well, the stuff about witnessing sex is not in the Book, but it has its share of Bacchanalia.

Cerberus

Hah! Doesn't every Holy Book?

Færd

They do, probably.

Cerberus

Someone at the company began spreading rumours about them, and at some point confronted them in public.

Then they were fired.

Færd

3:46 AM

Poor things.

Cerberus

And their landlord was contacted, so they were evicted.

And they fled to Norway, because they were sort of wanted.

Færd

Without having been convicted?

Cerberus

Yes.

Færd

Hmm.

Cerberus

They left the country before any formal charges were brought.

Færd

3:48 AM

Well, I suppose some people are unfortunate enough to get singled out and picked on.

Cerberus

Yeah.

The gist was that you could be a couple and live together, but it became dangerous if you were also colleagues, because you would naturally be observed together by colleagues every day.

Do you have any local gay friends/acquaintances?

Færd

@Cerberus Even that wouldn't make much of a problem normally, unless you act 'weird'ly in public.

@Cerberus I know some people who have had sex together or where in love with each other etc, but official partners, no.

Cerberus

The problem is that, when being together in a place with the same people every day, at some one one person might get suspicious, even if you're fairly careful.

Færd

That's right.

Cerberus

@Færd OK so you know some gay or bi people?

Færd

3:51 AM

But physical intimacy between close friends is not that big a deal here.

Cerberus

I know.

Færd

So it takes a bit more to be picked on.

Cerberus

Naturally.

Færd

Not that people are ever rational about their unfair behavior.

Cerberus

It's no puritanical society.

Whereas, here, almost everything is abnormal.

Færd

3:52 AM

@Cerberus I do.

Cerberus

OK.

Færd

@Cerberus Let's exchange our abnormalities and see who will be happier.

Cerberus

And they talk about it with some friends, apparently, or is it just your educated guess?

@Færd Yay!

People here are fairly inhibited in ways that seem very strange to other cultures, and also to themselves.

Færd

@Cerberus They have confidential convos with close friends, but that's about it.

Cerberus

Right, and you hear this from them, or you hear gossip, which I would expect there to be...

Færd

3:55 AM

I hate to consult people on their love lives, but a while back when I did, I was privy to some same-sex relationship secrets.

Cerberus

Fun.

Why do you hate consulting people on their love lives?

Færd

It's ... complicated.

Cerberus

I only hate it when people are clearly not being wise, or when it's always the same story.

Færd

Yes, which is the rule in this genre?

Cerberus

Hah!

I don't think so!

It often seems rational and interesting to me.

Færd

3:57 AM

OK maybe I'm just focusing on some bad memories here.

Cerberus

Maybe those instances took the most time...

Færd

@Cerberus You mean Europe?

Cerberus

Mainly northern Europe and some (former) colonies thereof.

Maybe eastern Europe as well.

Færd

Hmm.

Cerberus

Verily.

Færd

4:01 AM

But when you're boss, you get to pass as the norm.

Which only complicates the situation.

Cerberus

Wha?

What's buss?

Ohh.

Færd

@Cerberus It's an instance of typo.

Cerberus

Who's the boss of what?

@Færd I typed that before your correction appeared.

Færd

I know!

Cerberus

OK!

Færd

4:03 AM

@Cerberus Affluent whites, the boss of the world.

Cerberus

Oh, OK.

Færd

Paradigms of beauty, morality, and success.

Cerberus

Well, I don't think this is the norm around the world outside the regions mentioned.

I think Brazilians and Indians know very well how to dance and flirt and whatnot without the Germanic embarrassment.

Færd

It's not, but when people compare their situation with y'all (not you personally) they get an inferiority complex that would make them question their own norms and validate yours.

Cerberus

That would be unwise in this case!

Færd

4:05 AM

Then again, there are those who take pride in their own culture.

Pride, a tricky concept.

Cerberus

I think most people do to some considerable degree, and rightly so.

I'm glossing over its exact meaning.

Færd

OK.

Are you done with brushing?

Cerberus

2/3 done.

Færd

So where are you?

Cerberus

Currently at the inner part.

But doing some other stuff in the meantime.

Færd

4:11 AM

Oh you do all the outer parts first and then the inner parts? I do the lower and upper sets separately, in that order.

Cerberus

How odd!

Færd

Not at all.

Cerberus

I do outer first, then molar surfaces, then inner.

Færd

I do that for the lower jaw, then the upper jaw.

Cerberus

Surfaces? What's the right term?

@Færd What a strange culture.

Færd

4:13 AM

@Cerberus Maybe, but there are limiting factors.

@Cerberus What, do I have to abide by your norms?

I take pride in my culture.

Cerberus

@Færd Yes, of course?

@Færd Hmm too bad.

Færd

For you.

Cerberus

And you!

@Færd What did you have in mind?

Færd

Honestly I don't think I've learned my brushing routing from anyone.

@Cerberus Like porn, for example.

Cerberus

Nor I.

Færd

4:15 AM

Western porn is prevalent everywhere.

Cerberus

Uh.

So people don't take pride in their own porn?

Færd

And that sets some rules for sexual behavior, male/female norms of beauty of attractiveness, etc.

@Cerberus They would, if they got to freely produce and put out on the Net.

Or send to markets or whatever.

Cerberus

@Færd That seems fairly bad.

@Færd Hmm interesting.

Færd

That's just one example.

Take Hollywood for another.

Western music.

Cerberus

Ugh.

There is no need to watch those stupid films.

Some music is nice, though.

Færd

4:20 AM

@Cerberus They may take pride in their sexual life and culture, but if there's one part of the world that monopolizes the market, then it'd subsume the other parts.

Cerberus

But local music should be cherished and developed.

Færd

@Cerberus I'm all for healthy cultural exchange, on equal footing.

@Cerberus Yes.

Cerberus

@Færd A bit like the snowball or network effect.

The biggest market wins and its companies monopolise the entire world eventually.

Færd

Sadly so.

Cerberus

@Færd Sure.

Færd

4:22 AM

> O, reason not the need!

Cerberus

Quoi?

Færd

Don't ask why I need something.

Cerberus

Oh, it's some kind of quotation.

You don't need it.

There.

I haven't asked.

Færd

That's Shakespeare. I learned it today.

Cerberus

Nice.

Færd

4:24 AM

There's no logical need.

Cerberus

Let me phrase it elsewise, then. You shouldn't like them.

Færd

But markets are about illusionary needs.

Cerberus

Watch something better.

Færd

You don't have Instagram I suppose?

Cerberus

I think I have an account.

But I don't use it.

Why?

I use Facebook occasionally.

Færd

4:27 AM

It's the most trivial medium of social communication, and it's about the only Western social media that's remained uncensored here.

Cerberus

I've heard about its popularity in Iran.

Why is it more trivial than e.g. Facebook?

Færd

When you say "don't like it", it reminds me of how you could get hooked up on something so worthless.

Cerberus

Hah.

I am indeed not really hooked up on any of those things.

Færd

@Cerberus There's much less content.

Cerberus

I do sometimes watch a silly television series, but usually only with company.

Færd

4:29 AM

Communication is very limited.

Commenting system is very poor.

Cerberus

Only pictures and scant comments?

Færd

You can't share. etc.

Cerberus

You make it sound highly attractive.

Færd

And it's all visual.

Cerberus

Bleh.

I post something on Facebook like once a year, and it's never anything visual.

Færd

4:31 AM

Like I posted long captions under my pictures, and people would start to "like" my post withing seconds after I posted it.

They clearly never bothered to read.

You like, so you get liked back, and amass likes. UGH.

@Cerberus Yeah, Star Trek.

I guess you could find better silly TV series.

But I haven't watched Star Trek, so no comment.

Cerberus

@Færd Hilarious but loyal.

@Færd Right. It's not great. I suppose it is a bit like a bag of average crisps.

It's kind of enjoyable but not extremely so.

So is Facebook blocked?

Færd

Maybe not bad when you get the munchies.

Cerberus

Few people use it?

Færd

There are a few million Iranians on Facebook.

Maybe around five. Reports vary.

Cerberus

@Færd Yeah, it's OK.

@Færd People in your circles?

You?

Færd

4:36 AM

I reckon most of them live abroad.

Cerberus

Ah.

Færd

I am on Facebook, and there are so many of my acquaintances who live overseas and I communicate with on Facebook.

But I'm not that active.

Cerberus

Ah, I suppose it's nice for that kind of thing.

So I wonder why Insta wasn't blocked.

Færd

@Cerberus The younger ones don't bother with Facebook anymore. They've got Insta.

@Cerberus For several reasons, but they're prolly thinking about it.

If they managed to block Telegram (on the surface), they could manage to block Instagram.

Cerberus

@Færd I think it's the same here.

Færd

4:41 AM

There's progress for you.

Cerberus

@Færd Hmm I wonder why. It would have been easier to do before it became popular.

Færd

One study I mentioned before ranks Insta as the worst of social media.

Cerberus

And Twitter isn't blocked, since Kh. himself it's on it?

Færd

@Cerberus They don't want to block everything at the same time, and drive more people to use censorship circumvention tools.

Twitter is blocked.

Cerberus

@Færd Understandable.

Færd

4:43 AM

Almost anything that can instantly propagate news is blocked.

Cerberus

@Færd Hmm if I ever wanted to block something like that, I'd do it just before it became big.

Sid

Why exactly is social media blocked?

Færd

@Sid Because in clamorous times people could organize themselves agaisnt the government, for example.

Cerberus

@Færd Hmm hard to justify why Kh. can use it but his people aren't allowed to tread his messages!

But it's bed time! Typing on my phone.

Færd

Sweet dreams.

Cerberus

4:45 AM

Adieu!

Færd

I don't know your ID.

Ciao.

Cerberus

Bye!

Sid

@Færd so, the whole process is based on a fear that people may rise up against the Govt.?

Cerberus

Makes sense, no?

Especially when this fear is somewhat real.

Færd

@Sid And spread news detrimental to the power system.

@Cerberus Got it.

Sid

4:48 AM

Well, yes. It makes sense but what sort of Govt. Are you if people want to rise up against you?

Færd

Haha. What sort of government are you if people don't want to rise up against you?

Cerberus

One that thinks it knows better than some troublemaker group among its people what's best for them?

Bye, both!

Færd

Bye! (for the third time, I guess:) )

I should prolly leave too.

Sid

I mean, sure there will always be such elements but if a few thousand people are able to drum up massive support against the Govt only through Social Media, I guess it should be introspection time for the Govt

Færd

Well, you're not wrong, but it's complicated.

Sid

4:53 AM

How is it complicated?

Færd

The government tries to justify these restricting acts, not validly, for the most part.

I don't know where to start from.

But you're basically right.

Consider an underdog state, that the world establishment wants to vanquish.

Sid

Okay. Let's call it X

Færd

So it's partly natural to expect the underdog state to go into the defensive mode.

@Sid What's X?

Sid

@Færd let the underdog nation be called as X

Færd

Okay.

Sid

4:57 AM

@Færd Suuuure, but that would be when it is attacked (in any way).

Færd

So X faces existential threats from outside, and when it sees that the outsiders are drumming up support from withing the country, sees it necessary to cut off the connection.

There is media attack, of course. Undeniable.

Sid

I get your point but restrictive measures are for wartime situations. Not during normal everyday life of its people

Færd

It's like a constant war. It has been for the past 40 years.

The West, and the US in particular, want to overthrow and change the regime.

So the war is on.

But that doesn't justify the government stifling all voices insiede the country.

Sid

@Færd they have been known to do that for years. But, I find it weird that social media is banned based on paranoia that somehow the Govt will be overthrown if it is allowed

Færd

If there's complete unity between the government and the people, then yes, it's weird.

But the regime in question is partly totalitarian and partly democratic.

Sid

5:04 AM

@Færd The people chose the Govt., no?

Færd

Not completely. They have a say in some things, and not in others.

@Sid Oh you said chose (in the past).

Sid

Ehhhh, I am not particularly convinced by that argument of overthrowing of Govt

Færd

I'm not trying to convince you. I though that was obvious.

I'm trying to explain the situation.

I don't think there should be censorship.

Sid

I think the censorship gives the West exactly the excuse they need. They can claim they are fighting for people 's freedom

Færd

5:26 AM

@Sid Yes, but it's still complicated. For examples circumvention tools and VPN use is widespread, and the government doesn't penalize it or punish people for merely using them.

So censorship is more of a hindrance. It gradually sways people away from using certain sites and services.

It still could be very bad, no doubt.

(And it's also important to understand that Western superpowers don't give much of a damn about these people's freedom, but that's another issue.)

Sid

@Færd they don't. They like to claim that they do.

RegDwigнt

12:17 PM

@Cerberus me at my Schmidt-Flohr from the 1890s or something, playing a piece of mine from the 1990s or something. I thought you knew. You were the one asking for it.

@Cerberus Matt was nonplussed because I don't speak the way I write.

And now I'm feverishly trying to think of other things to play because I want a million subscribers and the silver YouTube button.

Feeds

1:00 PM

0

Q: Is there a single term for the practice of observing nature or recording nature?

It's what naturalists do, I guess, and I'd like to be able to express it in one word, if possible. Birdwatching is a related term, but too specific. If no single term exists, What might be a brief phrase on which most scientists (I'm not one) would agree?

single-word-requests phrase-requests

Cerberus

1:40 PM

@Færd Why do you think that? And who is the voice of a Western superpower?

@RegDwigнt Huh, I don't get it.

We're talking about this piece, no?

yesterday, by RegDwigнt

Osip Mandelstam — The Swamp («Из омута злого и вязкого»)

►

A piece of yours, as in, you wrote it? But it says Osip Mandelstam wrote it?

I didn't know I was asking for it, but I like it.

@RegDwigнt Hmm how is it different? I presume we can't listen to this somewhere?

@RegDwigнt You don't want to be an attention whore!

RegDwigнt

Osip Mandelstam was a poet, you noob. He ain't wrote no music. Silly drunken bugger indeed.

There's a video description. Nobody ever reads the video description. Stupid millennials!

Osip Mandelstam

Osip Emiljevitsj Mandelstam of Mandelsjtam (Russisch: Осип Эмильевич Мандельштам) (Warschau, 15 januari 1891 - Vtoraja Retsjka nabij Vladivostok, 27 december 1938) was een Joods-Russisch dichter en essayist. Hij wordt beschouwd als een van de grootste Russische dichters van de twintigste eeuw. Zijn werk was in de Stalin-tijd vrijwel onbekend buiten Rusland en kon niet of slechts incidenteel gepubliceerd worden. Mandelstams poëzie wordt, samen met die van Anna Achmatova, gerekend tot het Acmeïsme. De eerste gedichten van Mandelstam waren onpersoonlijk, maar later begon hij ook meer expliciet met...

@Cerberus Matt listened to it on Twitch, but in my Twitch videos I can only see videos in German, so no idea how he dunit.

Cerberus

@RegDwigнt I played it embedded in chat, I didn't go to the page, silly.

@RegDwigнt Hmm too bad.

RegDwigнt

1:56 PM

@Cerberus NOU