English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

tchrist

12:00 AM

We should call the petrobarons oleogarchs.

With spurious infix -g-.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

Hey, we have Waffle House.

Come back to the five and dime, Jimmy Dean, Jimmy Dean.

And IHOP.

tchrist

> I’ve stopped buying books from Amazon; I think this will make exactly no difference. I have no confidence in consumer pressure against an organization the size of Amazon (I have even less confidence in the US Government’s anti-trust investigators). So, no, I do not see a solution. I hope I’m wrong, but it looks like Amazon can pretty much do whatever it wants, and readers and writers are simply going to have to deal with it. Like I said, I hope I’m wrong.

Cerberus

@tchrist Why not olearchs?

@tchrist Oh, not that again...

tchrist

@Cerberus looks for Bizet

Cerberus

Why Bizet?

tchrist

12:03 AM

►

Because olearchs makes me think of toreros shouting olé!

Robusto

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 You, ma'am, live in a red state. The Waffle House is how you can tell.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@Robusto Got some in that other one, too.

If I live in a red state, how come I'm so blue?

Robusto

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Because you are an enlightened being.

►

Theodore Broda

@Robusto I have two Waffle Houses within five miles of my house, and South Carolina is definitely a red state. In the U.S., there seems to be a strong correlation between cheap waffles and conservatism.

tchrist

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Because you went to college in Lawrence?

Robusto

12:09 AM

> And joined the Nay-ee-ay-vee

Ah, gratuitous diphthongs.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@Robusto :D

@tchrist I wish.

I went to trade school.

tchrist

@TheodoreBroda I may have to go to RTP in a bit. In summer. The horror. Here I was thinking you were an RTPer.

Robusto

@TheodoreBroda South Carolina is the archetypal red state. First to secede.

tchrist

And last to succeed?

Robusto

I declined to make that joke.

Yes, I do have some forbearance.

tchrist

12:11 AM

@Robusto Ursine ancestors, or cubs where sons should be?

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

These puns are unbearable.

Robusto

Uh, maybe it's four-beerance. As in I need four before I start to feel it.

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 But not unbeerable. The more you drink, the better they sound.

@tchrist: So isn't overloading the Bringhurst operator a source of confusion for your publishing folk?

Theodore Broda

@Robusto The revisionist history of the American Civil War, promoted by delusional South Carolinians, is hilariously inconsistent. I don't know how many times rednecks here have told me that they are "proud to live in the state that fired the first shots of the War of Northern Aggression".

Robusto

Oh, that is rich.

Cerberus

Who started the war?

Robusto

12:14 AM

To hear the South tell it, the abolitionists.

Theodore Broda

@Cerberus The South (The Confederacy)

tchrist

@TheodoreBroda Remember that the antonym of yankee is traitor.

Theodore Broda

@tchrist Good one! I'll have to remember that.

Cerberus

@TheodoreBroda Oh.

tchrist

It is always the defending side that is ultimately at fault for all wars.

Cerberus

12:16 AM

Why did they start it?

tchrist

Seriously?

Robusto

Because they were afraid the North was going to take away their slaves. So they guaranteed that that would happen.

Theodore Broda

@Cerberus So they could oppress millions of slaves in horrific conditions so a few white people could get rich off of vast plantations.

Robusto

And most of 'em didn't even own slaves. It was the principle of the thing. In a free country, every (white) man has the right to own other human beings.

tchrist

@TheodoreBroda Not that that much changed for a long time.

Robusto

12:17 AM

I guess that's an oblique jinx.

tchrist

It was an economic issue.

Just like our current slave-labor trade.

Prison-labor is slave-labor.

Cerberus

Why did they need to start a war to keep their slaves?

A northern edict?

tchrist

Origins of the American Civil War

Historians debating the origins of the American Civil War focus on the reasons why seven Southern states declared their secession from the Union and later joined to form the Confederate States of America (the "Confederacy"). The main explanation is slavery, especially Southern anger at the attempts by Northern antislavery political forces to block the expansion of slavery into the western territories. Southern slave owners held that such a restriction on slavery would violate the principle of states' rights. Abraham Lincoln won the 1860 presidential election without being on the ballo...

> Nationalists (in the North and elsewhere) refused to recognize the secessions, nor did any foreign government ever recognize it. The U.S. government under Buchanan refused to abandon its forts that were in territory claimed by the Confederacy. War began in April 1861 when Confederates attacked Fort Sumter, a major U.S. fortress in South Carolina.

If the defenders had merely turned over the fort to the treasonous aggressors, that would have been something else. But they fought for what was theirs. In this way, the defenders always start wars: by failing to fail to resist the aggressor.

Robusto

@tchrist Just like Belgium in 1914.

tchrist

If they do not resist, there can be no war.

@Robusto Yes.

Robusto

12:23 AM

In the event of war in Europe, Belgium becomes a hostage.

Theodore Broda

@Cerberus Many Northerners were morally opposed to slavery, and wanted to keep it from spreading to new states, but the Southerners saw no reason why they shouldn't enslave two million men, women, and children (approx. 40% of the Deep South's population at the time).

@Robusto In the event of a war in Europe, any country bordering Germany becomes a hostage.

Cerberus

> Many Northerners, especially leaders of the new Republican Party, considered slavery a great national evil and believed that a small number of Southern owners of large plantations controlled the national government with the goal of spreading that evil.

tchrist

@Cerberus They needed unpaid labor to support their addiction to wealth.

@TheodoreBroda Then merely change the borders of Germany. No more hostages.

Cerberus

Apparently.

tchrist

Fucking non-deterministic video-game UIs.

Cerberus

12:25 AM

@tchrist Yay, we could be part of Großdeutschland!

Theodore Broda

@Cerberus Ironically, the Republicans who opposed slavery are now the most popular party throughout the South (red states are Republican).

Cerberus

Indeed.

That's why I posted it.

And blacks don't vote Republican now.

Theodore Broda

@Cerberus Yes. Rich, rich irony.

tchrist

The Democrats lost the South because they supported civil rights for Blacks.

Theodore Broda

@tchrist Before they lost the South, the Democrats were vehemently opposed to civil rights for blacks, back in the days of the Klu Klux Klan.

tchrist

12:29 AM

> National Democratic leaders know nothing about the modern South. They still see it as a land of magnolias and mint juleps, with the pointy-headed KKK lurking in the background, waiting to burn a cross or lynch blacks and Jews.

But as more and more non-black immigrants move into the South, this too shall shift.

Theodore Broda

@tchrist I suspect that there really are some pointy-headed sheet-wearers in the background. There's one creepy biker bar about ten miles from my house, with a lot of Confederate flags and creepy rednecks.

If you hadn't guessed it already, I don't like my current place of residence.

tchrist

I have the same visceral reaction to the Confederate “flag” as many Europeans do to the Nazi swastika.

@TheodoreBroda Well, you’re in the minority there. It only stands to reason.

Theodore Broda

@tchrist My adopted brother is black, so we like to give that biker bar a wide berth.

Robusto

@TheodoreBroda Well, don't watch Kevin Smith's film Red State then.

tchrist

> It's an article of faith among Democrats that Johnson's civil rights triumph is the reason for the GOP's advantage in the South (meaning the 11 states of the erstwhile Confederacy plus Kentucky). This is a morally satisfying story, and it no doubt helps explain black Americans' extraordinary loyalty to the party. But is it true? Only in part.

> . . . greater Latino immigration and a shrinking white electorate (the share of white votes in Florida dropped to 66 percent, for example) has allowed Democrats to make gains in states that were once GOP strongholds. Judging from Election Day, this is most true in the five states that hug the coast: Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, and Florida.

I’m always nervous in the Deep South. Easy Rider scared me at a young age, and I’ve not gotten over it.

Robusto

12:39 AM

3 mins ago, by Robusto

@TheodoreBroda Well, don't watch Kevin Smith's film Red State then.

tchrist

Plus I know the second I open my mouth, they’ll know what I am: their ancient foe.

Robusto

It won't take that long.

tchrist

Licence plates?

Theodore Broda

@tchrist I'm not scared from the movies, I'm scared from real life. Rednecks with racist tendencies and copious quantities of firearms. Not very reassuring.

tchrist

@TheodoreBroda Don’t forget booze.

Lovely combo.

And my being white wouldn’t save me.

I’m a blueneck through and through.

And far too well-spoken.

Robusto

12:42 AM

@TheodoreBroda I thought it was the law in South Carolina that you have to own a gun. Some towns, anyway.

@tchrist I think glasses would do it. And a full set of teeth.

tchrist

I don’t wear glasses as much as I probably should. I don’t wear them in broad sunshine or when working at terminal distance or closer.

Plus, what would I order at their truck stops? My dietary orientation would also betray me.

Robusto

The teeth. Just don't smile and you should be fine.

tchrist

Hardly a problem.

I believe in firearms only as protection against ursine (etc) incursion, not against humans. That’s the job of the police, if need be, and I think even they should but rarely need to carry.

Cerberus

@tchrist Isn't that a bit of an exaggeration?

tchrist

@Cerberus I may be overreacting, but I am not overstating.

It is to me a symbol of evil and death.

Cerberus

12:49 AM

It is not mass murder...

I wonder what would happen if I were to hang a Nazi flag from my window.

Somehow I suspect that would be illegal.

Theodore Broda

@Robusto Not here in Charleston, but I think there is an obsolete law allowing you to shoot a northerner at City Hall on a Sunday morning.

Cerberus

Wise.

tchrist

@Cerberus It was “only” 2% of the population who perished, albeit most of them non-civilians. That would like 6 million dead today.

If 6 million doesn’t count as a mass, I don’t know what would.

Cerberus

Of what population?

Oh, come on.

A war is completely different.

tchrist

Dead is dead.

Cerberus

12:54 AM

No.

tchrist

Prove it.

> Roughly 1,264,000 American soldiers have died in the nation's wars--620,000 in the Civil War and 644,000 in all other conflicts.

Theodore Broda

@Cerberus Dulce bellum inexpertis.

Mitch

@tchrist Support the right to arm bears.

tchrist

@Cerberus Horace lied.

Theodore Broda

@Mitch Yes! protect ursine creatures against human incursions!

Mitch

12:56 AM

@TheodoreBroda Dulce de leche inexpertis

tchrist

> Wilfred Owen

Dulce Et Decorum Est

Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of disappointed shells that dropped behind.

GAS! Gas! Quick, boys!-- An ecstasy of fumbling,
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time;

@Mitch It suffices to replace the gun season on them with an archery season.

It keeps the hunter population in check.

(brb)

Mitch

@tchrist Dulce et decorum est pro patria manducare

@tchrist more guns and less orange would do that too.

Cerberus

@tchrist How many people has your or the British government killed in the 20th century?

100,000 people were killed in Tokyo in a single night of bombardments.

@TheodoreBroda Ita est.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

cast your GR votes now:

0

Q: Why does "mash me a fin" mean loan me/give me five dollars?

I've heard mash me a fin used before and understood it to mean "loan me five dollars"; however, I don't understand why mash me a fin means loan me five dollars. The only example I could find of it was here in the Jive Dictionary: http://www.cabcalloway.cc/jive_dictionary.htm. Does anyone know wh...

Theodore Broda

@Cerberus The war was still worth it. A total of 359,528 Northern soldiers died, ultimately freeing 3,953,761 slaves from a slow, agonizing death.

Cerberus

1:01 AM

I don't believe that.

Well, never mind. I think this discussion is utterly silly and pointless.

Theodore Broda

Note that two-thirds of the deaths were from disease, not wounds.

Mitch

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yay! I love voting!

Theodore Broda

@Cerberus Here are the numbers for Union (and Confederate) casualties, and here are the numbers for the slave population in 1860.

Mitch

@TheodoreBroda I never understood that...didn't the officers recognize this problem and take steps to avoid it?

Like building latrines further from camp?

Robusto

There was an imperfect knowledge of microbiology and sanitation. Also, the South had malaria in those days.

Theodore Broda

1:07 AM

@Mitch The days before modern antibiotics was a dark age indeed.

Robusto

Well, those days are coming back, with a vengeance.

Mitch

@Robusto ha ha the northerners couldn't deal with mosquitos.

Robusto

The Age of Antibiotics is coming to a close.

Theodore Broda

@Robusto The South still has malaria, and West Nile Virus, and dengue fever, and...

Robusto

@Mitch Neither could the Southerners. In fact, that is precisely why they imported African slave labor.

Mitch

1:08 AM

@TheodoreBroda I think more than 2/3 of everybody back then died of non-combat problems.

Robusto

Everybody dies of something. You want to live forever?

Mitch

►

Robusto

@Mitch Are you trying to get me to kill myself?

Mitch

@Robusto peak antibiotics

Theodore Broda

@Robusto Noooooo!

Robusto

1:11 AM

Methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus

Methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA) (also known as Mercer) is a bacterium responsible for several difficult-to-treat infections in humans. It is also called oxacillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (ORSA). MRSA is any strain of Staphylococcus aureus that has developed, through the process of natural selection, resistance to beta-lactam antibiotics, which include the penicillins (methicillin, dicloxacillin, nafcillin, oxacillin, etc.) and the cephalosporins. Strains unable to resist these antibiotics are classified as methicillin-sensitive Staphylococcus aureus, or MSSA....

Mitch

@Robusto that sounds like a challenge .... for more annoying music! Also, I don't think you really listened to that so I don't think you're sincere.

tchrist

@Robusto Freddie, RIP.

Robusto

I can't be sincere if I don't listen to your YouTube links?

Mitch

►

@tchrist ?? Oh...I didn't watch the whole thing. Are you telling me Freddie Mercury is in Fame?

@Robusto That's pretty axiomatic.

Theodore Broda

@Robusto Antibiotic resistance... damned evolution!

tchrist

1:16 AM

@TheodoreBroda No, that’s not true: the South does not “still have malaria”. And everyone has West Nile and Lyme. But do tell: have you hantavirus? How about Y. pestis? Those I have both of.

No, you do not have hantavirus in SC.

Robusto

@Mitch Now you're pushing it.

@TheodoreBroda I thought you South'ren boys didn't believe in evolution.

@tchrist You have plague in CO? Fuck that.

tchrist

@Robusto Unless you are a prairie dog, you are unlikely to become infected by it.

Theodore Broda

@tchrist Apart from Murine Respiratory Mycoplasmosis and other vertically transmitted diseases, my pet rats are infection-free, so I hope I don't have any other rat-borne diseases.

Robusto

Wouldn't you hate to be the one guy in Maine who got Hantavirus?

tchrist

But it does periodically wipe out complete towns.

Robusto

1:20 AM

@tchrist checks self for fleas

Theodore Broda

Jun 1 at 1:55, by Theodore Broda

@tchrist An excellent point. Here in South Carolina though, there are almost as many creationists as there are alligators, so good luck explaining that cladistic fact to those obstinate fundamentalists.

tchrist

> The Sylvatic Plague Vaccine Subcommittee of the Black-footed Ferret Recovery and Implementation Team is acting to coordinate efforts to complete development and delivery of SPV as a management tool to combat plague in grassland ecosystems. Currently, the NWHC is working with USDA’s Center for Veterinary Biologics to register SPV for use in the field. Field safety trials with SPV are scheduled to begin in summer 2012 in Colorado. Field efficacy studies for free-ranging prairie dog populations are planned to begin in 2013.

So, Four Corners + Chicago.

> Between 1900 and 2010, 999 confirmed or probable human plague cases occurred in the United States. Over 80% of United States plague cases have been the bubonic form. In recent decades, an average of seven human plague cases have been reported each year (range: 1–17 cases per year). Plague has occurred in people of all ages (infants up to age 96), though 50% of cases occur in people ages 12–45.
It occurs in both men and women, though historically is slightly more common among men, probably because of increased outdoor activities that put them at higher risk.

Theodore Broda

I hope Y. pestis doesn't become antibiotic-resistant; it would be 1346 all over again.

tchrist

I came home from overseas once and took a stroll through the back open space that Sunday morning. There was no one there at all, whereas it is normally full of runners and dog chasers and buggy pushers. Only on the way back did I see the PLAGUE: KEEP OUT signs. The local prairie dog town had gone the way of all things.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

Yeesh.

tchrist

1:26 AM

> Prairie dogs are highly susceptible to plague and are the primary food source of the highly endangered black-footed ferret, which is also susceptible to the disease. Sylvatic plague can decimate prairie dog colonies, with mortality rates of 90 percent or more, resulting in local extinctions and population reductions.

I did check myself for fleas when I returned.

Tests show bubonic plague is present among prairie dogs in a field near the city's airport, and county health officials are investigating the death of a 28-year-old man who had plague-like symptoms. . . . A man who lived near the prairie dog colony died Monday after suffering symptoms similar to those caused by the plague.

That’s down in Springs.

Not DIA.

Or DOA, even.

Decimate, like leave 10% alive. Hm.

Michelle Obama has white-slaver ancestors, not just black-slave ones.

> You are using an outdated version of Internet Explorer. Please click here to upgrade your browser in order to comment.

Liars! I’m using Opera.

Obvious spam.

Spear-phishing.

Theodore Broda

@tchrist One rarely get the opportunity to use decimate in the traditional sense.

tchrist

Decimation (Roman army)

Decimation (; decem = "ten") was a form of military discipline used by senior commanders in the Roman Army to punish units or large groups guilty of capital offences such as mutiny or desertion. The word decimation is derived from Latin meaning "removal of a tenth". The procedure was a pragmatic, yet vicious, attempt to balance the need to punish serious offences with the practicalities of dealing with a large group of offenders. Procedure A cohort (roughly 480 soldiers) selected for punishment by decimation was divided into groups of ten; each group drew lots (Sortition), and the soldie...

I think the traditional sense was still just one part in ten killed, not one part in ten left alive.

Theodore Broda

@tchrist Yes, you are right. My error. I guess getting the opportunity to use decimate in the traditional sense is even more rare than I initially thought.

tchrist

> G.R. Watson notes that "its appeal was to those obsessed with "nimio amore antiqui moris" – that is, an excessive love for ancient customs – and notes, "Decimation itself, however, was ultimately doomed, for though the army might be prepared to assist in the execution of innocent slaves, professional soldiers could hardly be expected to cooperate in the indiscriminate execution of their own comrades."

Mitch

@Robusto That's all I got.

tchrist

1:39 AM

Why is the real answer to Yoichi’s question, and why?

4

Q: What is the plain alternative to “fossilized language”?

I was drawn to the word, “fossilized language” appearing in the following sentence of the New York Times’ (June 13) article titled, “Southern politicians try to hold back the tides.” “It’s always taken longer to get to the future in the South, and the region’s social tardiness has been on d...

meaning word-usage

Theodore Broda

@tchrist I had no idea about the extensive destruction of prairie dog towns by Y. pestis until you mentioned it. Wikipedia says the plague was introduced to North America in 1900 by rats; more bad reputation for my murine friends.

tchrist

@TheodoreBroda You know, every time I use that word amongst non-biologists, they get a tear in their eye.

But I have had to read and process so many journal articles regarding murine tests and the murine genome, I forget that they don’t speak my language.

@TheodoreBroda It is terrible, terrible.

KitFox

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 I'd like to find mutual satisfaction in smearing you with honey and butter.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@KitFox ah-OOOH-ga!

KitFox

Does that work?

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

1:48 AM

tries to joke about English

Time will tell.

KitFox

Maybe I have to actually do it for it to work.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

Hmm.

Robusto

I thought cornbread was a maple-syrup girl.

KitFox

Oh. We have buckets of the stuff here.

Robusto

lowers gaze in disillusion

Mitch

1:49 AM

@Robusto black molasses

KitFox

blackstrap

tchrist

So, so , so many of these.

This question is off-topic because it should at most have been posed to our sister site for English Language Learners instead of here, which is for linguists, etymologists, and serious language enthusiasts. One rule of thumb is that when you only need any random native speaker to answer a basic question about English, you’ve come to the wrong place. It still might not work on ELL, but it certainly doesn’t work here. Plus adding irony to injury, your question itself contains its own verbatim correct answer. — tchrist 1 min ago

KitFox

used for making treacle

tchrist

I think that was probably too harsh.

Robusto

@KitFox Blame it on cane, don't blame it on me.

Theodore Broda

1:51 AM

This question is off topic:

0

Q: What's the best English-English dictionary software?

I need a PC client software, it will be better if the software has iOS/Android client.

dictionaries software

KitFox

@tchrist Well, the Lawler weight is high enough to add some real insult.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@Robusto sugar cane? Profane?

Robusto

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Procaine.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@Robusto I'm just a shabby doll.

tchrist

@Kit Speaking of Lawler-weight, this one got closed with 5 votes to migrate. I leave it to the EL? to decide whether it should really be migrated, though.

0

Q: stuck in how to differentiate between regular and irregular verbs

As I know that in regular verbs we put 'ed' and in irregular verb we do not put 'ed' while changing it into past or past participle but anyone who does not know about the 2nd and 3rd form of verb so how he/she should know that word is regular or irregular verb??

grammar

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

1:52 AM

Was pouring a scotch.

Robusto

Procaine

:"Allocaine" redirects here. It should not be confused with Allococaine. Procaine is a local anesthetic drug of the amino ester group. It is used primarily to reduce the pain of intramuscular injection of penicillin, and it is also used in dentistry. Owing to the ubiquity of the trade name Novocain, in some regions procaine is referred to generically as novocaine. It acts mainly by being a sodium channel blocker. Today it is used therapeutically in some countries due to its sympatholytic, anti-inflammatory, perfusion enhancing, and mood enhancing effects. Procaine was first synthesized ...

KitFox

@TheodoreBroda Our FAQ, every FAQ, clearly states do not ask questions of the type "What is the best ... "

tchrist

I have tried to explain why I don’t think that regular users no matter the rep should be able to migrate to ELL — because they don’t have a good sense for it. Including me.

What the heck is a software?

Robusto

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 bein' what you might call a whore / always worked for me before

Jasper Loy

@tchrist A ware that is soft

Mitch

1:54 AM

@KitFox How about a meta question "What is the best way to ask question on the main site?"?

tchrist

@JasperLoy A good man is hard to find.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

A hard man is good to find.

Mitch

@tchrist I have one.

KitFox

I migrated it because the essence was there, but in general I've been rejecting flags for migration.

I especially dislike "this is off-topic because it should be on ELL".

tchrist

@KitFox I agree with that general thingy.

Theodore Broda

1:55 AM

@tchrist Does that mean that ELL is anti-immigration?

KitFox

It should be off-topic here, not that it is on-topic there.

tchrist

That’s why in my Lawler-weighted comment I tried to explain why I felt as I did.

KitFox

And your close reason on the other was decent.

tchrist

@KitFox And just because it is off-topic here does not ipso facto render it on-topic there.

KitFox

Right.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

1:56 AM

This fight is three rounds in the ELU Lawler-weight division.

KitFox

Nor is it off-topic just because it would fit there.

Theodore Broda

@tchrist What does Lawler-weighted mean, exactly?

KitFox

14

Q: Measuring typographical emphasis: the “lawler” and “lawler weight”

RegDwighт said: @Robusto wow, that's formatting to the max. Bold and italics and monospaced and in quotes. John has outlawlered himself.¹ It occurs to me that this is something we can measure. I propose that a single character’s lawler weight (lw) be the standard unit of measure of the typ...

discussion style formatting

tchrist

In plain language, the number of bucky bits.

Each bucky bit adds to the weight: ALL CAPS, bold, italic, fugly monospace, etc.

Cerberus

Hello.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

1:58 AM

Have a fox.

KitFox

eeee

tchrist

There are even ways to get secret bonus bucky bits.

            Double-Struck: ℍ𝕖𝕝𝕝𝕠 ℂ𝕖𝕣𝕓𝕖𝕣𝕦𝕤
                Monospace: 𝙷𝚎𝚕𝚕𝚘 𝙲𝚎𝚛𝚋𝚎𝚛𝚞𝚜
               Sans-Serif: 𝖧𝖾𝗅𝗅𝗈 𝖢𝖾𝗋𝖻𝖾𝗋𝗎𝗌
        Sans-Serif Italic: 𝘏𝘦𝘭𝘭𝘰 𝘊𝘦𝘳𝘣𝘦𝘳𝘶𝘴
          Sans-Serif Bold: 𝗛𝗲𝗹𝗹𝗼 𝗖𝗲𝗿𝗯𝗲𝗿𝘂𝘀
   Sans-Serif Bold Italic: 𝙃𝙚𝙡𝙡𝙤 𝘾𝙚𝙧𝙗𝙚𝙧𝙪𝙨
                   Script: ℋ𝑒𝓁𝓁ℴ 𝒞𝑒𝓇𝒷𝑒𝓇𝓊𝓈
                   Italic: 𝐻𝑒𝑙𝑙𝑜 𝐶𝑒𝑟𝑏𝑒𝑟𝑢𝑠
                     Bold: 𝐇𝐞𝐥𝐥𝐨 𝐂𝐞𝐫𝐛𝐞𝐫𝐮𝐬
              Bold Italic: 𝑯𝒆𝒍𝒍𝒐 𝑪𝒆𝒓𝒃𝒆𝒓𝒖𝒔

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

Mmm, Fraktur.

KitFox

I wish you'd address me with such flourish.

Cerberus

Holland v. Wales.

tchrist

2:00 AM

@Mitch One what? The OED attests no fewer than six different nouns ware, all separate headwords.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

Oh @KitFoxxx.

Theodore Broda

@tchrist The Unicode doesn't render right in my browser; I only get squares.

KitFox

@Cerberus You guys killed them, eh?

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Funny that didn't ping me.

tchrist

@TheodoreBroda digs pockets for nickel

Cerberus

@tchrist Hello! I can see them all, of course.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

2:01 AM

@KitFox :(

KitFox

@tchrist I must have fixed them the last time we went through these.

Or at some point during one of the myriad discourses on unicode.

I see mostly boxen.

tsk

Install moar fonts!!

            Double-Struck: 𝔸𝕧𝕖 ℂ𝕖𝕣𝕓𝕖𝕣𝕖 -- 𝕒𝕟𝕕 ℍ𝕒𝕚𝕝 𝕒𝕟𝕕 𝕎𝕖𝕝𝕝-𝕄𝕖𝕥, 𝕆 𝕋𝕙𝕠𝕦 𝔽𝕝𝕠𝕦𝕣𝕚𝕤𝕙𝕚𝕟𝕘 𝕍𝕚𝕩𝕖𝕟 ℚ𝕦𝕖𝕖𝕟!
                Monospace: 𝙰𝚟𝚎 𝙲𝚎𝚛𝚋𝚎𝚛𝚎 -- 𝚊𝚗𝚍 𝙷𝚊𝚒𝚕 𝚊𝚗𝚍 𝚆𝚎𝚕𝚕-𝙼𝚎𝚝, 𝙾 𝚃𝚑𝚘𝚞 𝙵𝚕𝚘𝚞𝚛𝚒𝚜𝚑𝚒𝚗𝚐 𝚅𝚒𝚡𝚎𝚗 𝚀𝚞𝚎𝚎𝚗!
               Sans-Serif: 𝖠𝗏𝖾 𝖢𝖾𝗋𝖻𝖾𝗋𝖾 -- 𝖺𝗇𝖽 𝖧𝖺𝗂𝗅 𝖺𝗇𝖽 𝖶𝖾𝗅𝗅-𝖬𝖾𝗍, 𝖮 𝖳𝗁𝗈𝗎 𝖥𝗅𝗈𝗎𝗋𝗂𝗌𝗁𝗂𝗇𝗀 𝖵𝗂𝗑𝖾𝗇 𝖰𝗎𝖾𝖾𝗇!
        Sans-Serif Italic: 𝘈𝘷𝘦 𝘊𝘦𝘳𝘣𝘦𝘳𝘦 -- 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘏𝘢𝘪𝘭 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘞𝘦𝘭𝘭-𝘔𝘦𝘵, 𝘖 𝘛𝘩𝘰𝘶 𝘍𝘭𝘰𝘶𝘳𝘪𝘴𝘩𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘝𝘪𝘹𝘦𝘯 𝘘𝘶𝘦𝘦𝘯!

Mitch

2:03 AM

@tchrist one software.

tchrist

@Mitch To rule them all?

Theodore Broda

@tchrist That's funny. When I cut and paste the text into my Google Chrome search bar, I can view Hello Cerberus in all its typographic glory.

Cerberus

Not bad.

KitFox

bows Thank you, kind sir.

Cerberus

@TheodoreBroda What browser are you using here?

KitFox

2:04 AM

The kerning on the italic is hideous. I shall remove it from my sight.

Theodore Broda

@Cerberus also Google Chrome (incognito, as always).

Cerberus

Oh.

KitFox

Which is to say, good night all!

Cerberus

Why incognito?

Then you have to log in every time...

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@KitFox blows kiss

KitFox

2:05 AM

blows one back

Oh. That didn't sound right.

Well.

Tomorrow.

Theodore Broda

@KitFox I thought foxes were nocturnal (or at least vespertine).

tchrist

@TheodoreBroda It is a tragic triptych of obfuscatorily connected pestilential issues⩴ ➊ operating system and concomitant libraries⁏ ➋ graphical web client and its settings and potentially its client-hosting GUIware⁏ and ➌ currently and correctly installed fonts. Somewhere along there is the issue of a sane glyph-substitution algorithm, but where that lies is hard to pinpoint.

@TheodoreBroda No.

That’s eight things that might go wrong, as I count them.

But in general, Microsoft are idiots when you dare to venture into the higher astral planes.

Then again, so are Java programmers.

And C♯ programmers.

Robusto

I know. The key signature alone is daunting.

Theodore Broda

@tchrist I don't venture into any programming. I do dabble in HTML and CSS, but those are not programming languages.

tchrist

@Robusto Not in a minor way.

Robusto

2:15 AM

Can C♯ programmers program modal dialogs? It doesn't seem right somehow.

tchrist

@TheodoreBroda Dabble, dabble toil and trouble; / Fire burn, and browser bubble.

Theodore Broda

@tchrist My fonts are not at fault. I have fonts for even the most obscure Unicode characters.

tchrist

@TheodoreBroda Ok, #3 down, with two more remaining.

Theodore Broda

@tchrist I think it may be a combination of the other two. But I know nothing about the inner workings of computers, just the pretty GUI and occasionally the command-line.

tchrist

@Robusto I really like both C♯m fugues — but again, alternate mode and reality.

@TheodoreBroda If you have one browser it works on and another it fails on, you can eliminate #1.

And fewer blackies, too.

@TheodoreBroda And once you have eliminated all other possibilities, the one that remains, howsoever improbable it may appear, is the correct answer.

Theodore Broda

2:21 AM

@tchrist Elementary, my dear Watson (by Watson I mean the IBM computer).

Robusto

And I am out of here. Night all.

Cerberus

In my experience, installing moar fonts always helped me view missing characters.

Night.

tchrist

So you have a fucked up browser. QED.

Jasper Loy

@Robusto See you in your dreams

tchrist

@JasperLoy Stop that! It’s creepy when someone with homoerotic reveries bids another that doom.

Did you guys notice that JBJ just graduated into the 10k Klub “yesterday”?

Jasper Loy

2:24 AM

Never noticed JBJ. Justin Bieber?

tchrist

That’s DJ Justa BJ to you, buster.

Theodore Broda

@tchrist No, but good for him! How long is it before you join the 10k club for your fifth site, or whatever it is?

tchrist

@TheodoreBroda Quaerendo invenietis, no matter how fugal an endeavor that might at first sight appear.

“Prescriptive grammar” is all and only about the setting of baseline normative standards, often for purposes purely paedogogical or publicational. It has nothing to do with linguistics. — tchrist 2 mins ago

Theodore Broda

2:43 AM

My two rats have joined me at the computer; are there any prairie dogs that require infecting?

tchrist

I have only prairie voles in my home, not prairie dogs.

Theodore Broda

@tchrist Any other interesting rodents in your area?

tchrist

@TheodoreBroda Yes.

@TheodoreBroda Most notably, I have the peakhog or mountchuck, specifically Marmota flaviventris. And please don’t ask whether he has a tasty tummy.

I also have deceptively rodent-looking lagomorphs, those of the non-leporid variety.

Sometimes they call the chuck a whistle pig.

Theodore Broda

@tchrist Whether you have marmots or prairie dogs, ground squirrels are fascinating in general.

tchrist

The funny thing is that people falsely believe that Marmota species cannot climb trees.

Although I’ve not seen mine do that.

But there are pictures on the web.

A woodchuck is the only one of the nineteen extant Marmota species that does not regularly go by that name.

Theodore Broda

2:54 AM

@tchrist I would think that ground squirrels, if not incapable of climbing as you have said, are at least not highly motivated to climb trees.

tchrist

Well, M. flaviventris is often enough found above timberline, which makes such things more difficult. But those happy individuals dwelling in the rocks back up behind my house have no such excuse, but for sloth.

Millions of arboreal Marmotae shots.

Oh, and the tassel-eared squirrels are awesome.

Like, really.

The subsubspecies living on the North Rim are especially special, but mine are great, too.

And remember this: marmots are gulos for oreos.

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