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user131753
3:44 AM
@aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Would you mind to enclose your math texts within $? It is very difficult to read it (at least for me).
 
user131753
@Dedalus See the above.
 
user351585
4:33 AM
@user170039 No problem! Just not sure how the chat room's Latex compiler works, so I haven't been trying to use it
 
user131753
4:46 AM
@aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa If you are using a computer/laptop then you may use this extension.
 
8:44 AM
In fact, some suggestion on how to use MathJax ("LaTeX") in chat is linked in the room description:
Oct 25 '13 at 20:59, by Jon Beardsley
room topic changed to Homotopy Theory: A room for anyone interested in homotopy theory, or any nearby fields (e.g. category theory, algebraic geometry). To activate chatjax in this room go to http://meta.math.stackexchange.com/questions/1088/should-chat-have-tex-support/3297#3297 [homotopy-theory]
 
 
6 hours later…
user351585
2:40 PM
OK thanks!
 
skd
4:51 PM
is there a direct way to see --- without citing mahowald's theorem --- that the free E_2-ring with 2=0 is complex oriented?
more generally if i kill off an element in pi_* S in a E_k-way, are there any conditions guaranteeing that the resulting spectrum is complex oriented?
this isn't true in general; for instance, X(2), which is the E_1-quotient of the sphere by eta, isn't complex oriented
 
 
1 hour later…
user351585
5:58 PM
@skd I don't know sufficient conditions, although I bet someone else does. There is an obvious necessary condition: you need all the elements in $\pi_n(S)$, for $n>0$, to map to zero in your ring spectrum that you want to be complex oriented, since those elements already map to zero in $\pi_*(MU)$. By Joel Cohen's theorem, all such elements are matric Toda brackets of the following elements: $\eta \in \pi_1(S), \nu\in \pi_3(S), \sigma\in \pi_7(S)$...
 
user351585
...and for each odd prime $p$, $\alpha_1\in \pi_{2p-3}(S)$. So if you cone off all those by attaching an $A_{\infty}$-cell (assuming I remember correctly, that an $A_{\infty}$-structure is enough to define Toda brackets of arbitrary length in homotopy?), then you satisfy this necessary condition.
 
user351585
I should say by attaching $A_{\infty}$-cells, not a single $A_{\infty}$-cell, since of course it's going to take more than one (unless you have already localized at an odd prime)
 
user351585
I also stated Cohen's theorem imprecisely: really you need to include elements in $\pi_0(S)$ to generate all the higher stable stems via matric Toda brackets; but of course you don't need to cone those off to get a complex oriented ring spectrum. (But you do need to cone off the others.)
 
user351585
In the case of the free $E_2$-ring with 2=0: isn't $E_2$ just enough to define the Browder bracket? I suppose that means that Toda brackets along with the Browder bracket must be enough to generate all the higher 2-local stable stems from just $2\in \pi_0(S)$, which seems surprising, although maybe I misunderstand something here
 
skd
6:22 PM
@aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa thanks! the only condition i could figure out was the one coming from Cohen's theorem, too. i didn't think to the browder bracket, that's an interesting idea
a sufficient condition for complex orientability would be a cool result
 
user351585
@skd Suppose you attach an $E_k$-cell to the sphere spectrum along some element $x\in \pi_*(S)$, and call the result $E_k(x)$. To know that $E_k(x)$ is complex oriented, I think you just need to know that a certain element $w$ in $(E_k(x))^2$ of the $2$-skeleton of $BU(1)$ survives the Atiyah-Hirzebruch SS to give an element in $(E_k(x))^2(BU(1))$. Have you tried working out what the $E_2$-term of that AHSS can look like, in the bidegrees that could be connected to $w$ by a differential?
 
skd
6:38 PM
no, i haven't. i'm afraid that i'll get stuck quickly since i have no control over pi_* E_k(x)
actually, iirc, for the case when we set 2=0, there's an argument in würgler's paper "ring spectra of characteristic 2" (or something close to that) where one extends a X(n)-orientation to a X(n+1)-orientation, by comparison to the AHSS for RP^oo. the generator there maps to a square in the AHSS for CP^oo. but as 2=0 the leibniz rule for the differentials shows that the class in E_2^(2,0) survives to the E_oo-page
but this doesn't work for coning off a general element
 
 
4 hours later…
11:16 PM
@CharlesRezk Thanks. Now I realize I'd seen Horel's work before and should have remembered! @AlexanderCampbell A no-go theorem sounds like a cool idea. And thanks for pointing out that paper -- I was not aware. My sense is that the seed for contradiction ought to be the fact that free categories are not closed under finite products... even free categories on complete graphs
 

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