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1:26 AM
i have a question that i haven't really thought through yet, so apologies in advance: can the cell structure of the thom spectrum of a spherical bundle X --> BGL_1 S be determined from sufficient, oracular knowledge of that of X and the behavior of the classifying map? what exactly would it take?
possibly a sane phrasing of this is: given complete knowledge of the atiyah-hirzebruch spectral sequence H_*(X; pi_* S) ==> pi_* X and some unspecified amount of knowledge of the map X --> BGL_1 S, can the differentials be determined in H_*(T(X); pi_* S) ==> pi_* T(X)
 
@EricPeterson I would think so.
 
i would think so too, but how
 
so that was to the first one.
well, the thom isomorphism and enough knowledge about the classifying map will give you the cohomology of the thom spectrum
with more information you can determine the action of the steenrod algebra and that is like knowing the cell structure.
or the attaching maps of the cells.
 
sure, maybe suppose that the spherical bundle is HZ-oriented to start
the most basic question to ask is what the thom spectrum of a map S^n --> BGL_1 S is. is it an M_0 moore spectrum on the classified homotopy element of BGL_1 S = Loops^infty S^infty [1, infty) ? (is that equality even right?)
 
1:46 AM
mm, not quite right but close enough that i can ask the question
 
2:15 AM
I mean in the 'old days' I think you built the Thom spectrum by filtering BGL_1S (usually you had some explicit model of this in mind and the filtration is analogous to the one for BO(n)) and then getting a corresponding filtration of the map f: X ---> BGL_1S. Then pull back the spherical fibrations you get, take Thom complexes, and all these together give the spectrum
but that description doesn't seem immediately ready-made for the types of applications it seems like you're thinking about
 
that is how you do it in the old days; you simultaneously use that you can filter the source by finite dimensional skeleta, and those compact objects factor through finite stages of the BGL_1 S filtration
 
right. so that answers your question, but maybe not in the form you'd like?
 
i'm not sure it does --- rather, it doesn't address "what exactly would it take?"
 
ah, I see what you mean
don't have a good answer offhand...
 
i would be immensely interested in any answer to this question, for obvious reasons, @EricPeterson
are you thinking about that sseq we talked about at talbot? or something different?
 
2:28 AM
yes, idly
i imagine that the answer to the moore spectrum question at least is 'yes', based on the calculation T(CP^1; L-1) = Susp^-2 CP^2
 
i'm blanking, what's an M_0 Moore spectrum exactly? just... mod p?
 
sorry, i didn't mean to be cryptic, i meant a moore spectrum with its bottom cell in dimension 0
 
aha
oh i see. and you're killing that htpy elt
 
"coning it off"
hehe
i mean, idly, at least, we can't really expect to know much about the homotopy of these things
so it seems we must be wary of constructions that have the potential to tell us about their homotopy
 
2:32 AM
i don't expect to know much about their homotopy; this takes as input the homotopy of S^0
nothing is going in or coming out, it's just organizing
 
i see.
here's another way of thinking about the question, which is maybe the same way
the bigger question, at least. not your specific one.
we're asking about extending n-buds on $E_\ast$ right? well, we can always do this algebraically, so what's the precise difference between algebraic extensions of n-buds and topological extensions of n-orientations?
 
the difference between the algebra and the algebraic topology there is the difference between H_* CP^infty and the spectral sequence H_* CP^infty (x)_* E_* ==> E_* CP^infty, which is (in a totally inaccessible way) controlled by the answer to my question. they're related 4 sure
 
where (x) is tensor?
 
yes
i'm not going to give in to this mathjax thing
 
hahah
it's okay. as long as you don't mind me asking, i have a hard time parsing stuff sometimes
things just like, float around in the front of my brain
what is that spectral sequence? atiyah-hirzebruch
?
 
2:46 AM
yes
 
okay, i'm starting to get ur question now
 
3:01 AM
@EricPeterson: are you familiar with the computation of the thom complex of n times the canonical line bundle over RP^k?
 
i know the proof in atiyah's paper thom complexes, but that doesn't seem to lend itself to saying anything helpful here
and i guess i can compute its steenrod algebra structure without going so far as to make the identification of (RP^k)^(nL) with RP(n+k)_n
 
that is the only thing I am familiar with that is related.
usually the action of the steenrod algebra tells you about the cell structure.
or at least implies a large amount of information.
 
3:16 AM
well steenrod algebra structure would be something, but i worry it might be in an orthogonal direction. steenrod algebra structure + all n-order structure for n > 1 is supposed to determine 2-adic homotopy type. i can phrase this question in that language instead of the pi_* S one, but i think pi_* S is what i want, since fib(bgl_1 S --> bgl_1 HZ) has something to do with pi_* S
i d k
 
well, then you can run an adams ss.
sorry, what do you mean by n-order structure
 
i mean massey product type things
exactly for the purpose of running an adams ss
 
ah
I though you wanted the cell complex structure?
isnt that, at least to some extent, determined by the steenrod algebra action?
I mean, i know this is the case up to some sort of indeterminacy, which is maybe where the information you care about is.
 
that's exactly what i want and what i mean, the steenrod structure would let me do it, provided a lot of extra fuss with extra things past the E_2 page in the HF_p adams ss. maybe that will be useful when it comes time to compute something, but for the moment just framing the answer shouldn't necessitate steenrod operations, i wouldn't think, provided i'm willing to tolerate having pi_* S lying around as potential input
 
so, maybe it is up there earlier, but what exactly are you after?
sorry, i was being dumb and forgetting about sq^16 being indecomposable.
 
3:29 AM
a formula for the attaching map wedge_alpha S^n --> T^(n) --> T^(n+1) for a thom spectrum T = Th(X --f-> BGL_1) in terms of a formula for the attaching map wedge_alpha S^n --> X^(n) --> X^(n+1) and some kind of description of the map f
 
I would think to try to use an adams SS
have you seen the filtered adams ss?
you sort of truncate the adams tower.
 
no, i haven't
 
this might make it easier to deal with so that you don't see all of the noise.
this is somewhere in the first bob chapter of the HRS springer volume
later in it, near the end of that first chapter.
i think it might be obvious how to construct such a partial adams ss
I guess we don't know in general how the steenrod algebra acts on the thom class, or do we? man i should know this.
 
i own that book, i had serious intentions of reading it at one point
turned out to be too lazy
i'll have a look
 
That book is hard. It is amazing though.
it is hard though.
i don't understand most of it.
Bobs stuff in there is really cool. It might be a little obvious to you, but it was mind blowing for me.
I think it could be phrased in a bit better of a way to make it more digestible.
It might help to know that bob is secretly working with universal examples and the spectral sequence associated with their extended powers.
 
3:39 AM
helpful tip
 
his third chapter is really good.
I skipped around when i read it.
 
i recently bought the green book, because i thought i was going to get involved in a project that used computations in it seriously, so i'd better own a copy
now i'm thinking i might not get involved after all, but i should still take the time to read a sizable chunk of it
bmms after that
 
@EricPeterson I don't know if i believe i can read such things straight through.
 
anyone have time for a stupid group theory question
 
i couldn't if i didn't already know a sizable chunk of it
 
3:46 AM
I wish bmms would get rewritten in a modern light. McClures stuff is hard for me because he doesn't use p-complete k-theory.
 
@JonBeardsley go on and ask already
 
well i didn't want to bother anyone
lol
 
thom spectra aren't going anywhere
 
eilenberg and maclane say the following
is this obvious?
specifically the latter assertion
where $H^\ast(\Pi,n;G)$ is the cohomology of the Eilenberg MacLane space
$K(\Pi, n)$
moreover, they say that if we consider the product on $B\Pi\equiv K(\Pi,1)$ given by shuffles, $\ast:B\Pi\times B\Pi\to B\Pi$, then $H^3(B\Pi,im(\ast); G)$ is always trivial
and this last theorem is driving me nuts
their proof is pretty confusing
and i'm super stuck, and kind of desperate. because i want to write down the same theorem for group schemes
 
that last thing i have no idea about; the first two things sound at least not that frightening
but i don't think i can actually help
 
4:00 AM
yeah the first two sound totally reasonable
the last is actually kind of a badass result
that everyone seems to have forgotten about
and it's connected to something they call "symmetric cohomology"
and the level 2-things are, you guessed it, symmetric cochains
erm, cocycles, or whatever
but higher up, you've got, I dunno, you've got to change what you mean by "symmetric"
but it's just what i said, basically. $H^n(im(\ast),G)$
 
sooo hey if X and Y are E_{\infty} spaces, where do the goerss-hopkins obstructions for a map X \to Y being an E_{\infty} map lie
 
o, the first two are easy if you believe in delooping; an extension G --> E --> Pi deloops to give Pi --> BG and then to BPi --> BBG, and given a map BPi --> BBG you can use the loop sequence to unwind to an exact sequence G --> E --> Pi
similarly for the abelian extensions, except there you're assuming you can deloop twice, which is not an accident
@ArnavTripathy best to highlight @AaronMazel-Gee
why should you have to hit [tab] before hitting [enter] to complete a name
 
oh i didn't even know you could hit tab
that was driving me nuts @EricPeterson
oh wow that makes it easer
*easier
 
they live in some gamma cohomology group.
they didnt write it that way but it is equivalent to that.
 
oh hey @ArnavTripathy
 
so something like $H\Gamma^{*+\epsilon}(\pi_*(Y\wedge_X Y);\pi_*Y)$
 
eric said you asked something about goerss--hopkins?
oh i see it above
 
I am not sure what epsilon is, it might be 2
 
what about TAQ
 
it is TAQ
but for eilenberg maclane rings
 
4:10 AM
oh
 
there is a paper by basterra and richter where they prove this using a result of Mandell's
 
@EricPeterson how does a map BPi-->BBG give you a cohomology class?
 
so funny story, you need X and Y to be E-local for some homology theory E in order to use goerss--hopkins. and you need a handle on the homology cooperations. so you could try to use stable homotopy, but then your homology cooperations are sort of intractable
 
oh man
okay
so much for that then
 
4:13 AM
so there's also this obstruction theory due to Robinson, which uses what he calls "Gamma homology"
 
I guess I was jabbering at myself...
LOL
 
thanks guys
 
jesus christ.
 
what are your spaces, anyways?
 
4:13 AM
LOL
 
@SeanTilson arnav and i discussed your comments in gchat
 
oh I was just trying to think of jbeardsley's question
K(G, 2) and K(H, 3) or something
 
i sent him some links
 
what does sean keep laughing at
I don't get it
 
i do, everyone just settle down
 
4:14 AM
I guess I am referring to the fact that you should read my comments.
 
shit I am so confused that I am going to flee back to doing retarded basic topology
 
@ArnavTripathy arnav, i said what their obstruction groups were above for your question. there may be some hypotheses that aaron points out. I can tell you the appropriate references.
 
no it's okay. he was trying to help me.
 
so at least K(G,n) is HG-local, right? that should come from kunneth sexseq's
 
4:16 AM
he wanted to answer my questions about groups
 
There is a volume called structured ring spectra edited by baker and richter.
 
@JonBeardsley that's the only definition of group cohomology i know: H^n_{gp}(G; M) = H^n_{spaces}(BG; Z; M), where M is taken to be a twisted coefficient system. if M is a trivial system for G, then this is H^n_{spaces}(BG; M), and H^2 there is classified by maps [BG, K(M, 2)]
 
@ArnavTripathy In it, there is a lot of talk about this type of stuff
 
yea, sorry, arnav explained it to me. it's obvious, lol
 
Gamma cohomology is TAQ for dgas, but they have an explicit model for it.
 
4:21 AM
o, good
 
whoa someone just starred tyler's problem list
 
my money's on @EldenElmanto
 
ok everyone is awesome
 
4:49 AM
ps, @ArnavTripathy I am pretty confident that the $\Gamma$ in $\Gamma$-cohomology is the same as Segal's $\Gamma$.
 
5:41 AM
whoa !!
 
 
4 hours later…
9:13 AM
whoa there's like nobody left in this room
oh that's because it's like 5 am where y'all are
 
 
3 hours later…
12:21 PM
lol
 
what's so funny?
 
12:59 PM
@skullpatrol arnav learning about time zones.
 
@SeanTilson Ahh...thanks :-)
 
 
1 hour later…
2:14 PM
hmm, does anyone know how a functor of DG categories being a Morita equivalence categories compares to just inducing an equivalence of the homotopy categories
 
3:03 PM
oops, an extra "categories" in there
 
3:18 PM
that's a cool band name, time zones
@EricPeterson so this appears to follow from a certain isomorphism of groups (probably of rings....) $H^4(K(\Pi,2);G)\cong Hom(\Gamma(\Pi),G)$ where $\Gamma(-)$ is Whitehead's quadratic functor, that takes a group to something which behaves like quadratic functions on that group
it's sort of fascinating. I'm trying to determine what the right analog of this functor should be for group schemes, or at least, what thing I can plug in that will make the above isomorphism hold for group schemes (er.... stacks?). I think that in the case of $\mathbb{G}_a$ it might be something like degree 2 polynomials (or the sub-stack whose global sections is such)
 
 
2 hours later…
5:48 PM
@JonBeardsley the shuffle lemma you mean?
 
6:07 PM
yeah
 
 
3 hours later…
9:35 PM
apparently $\Gamma$ is the "first derived functor of the exterior square," whatever that means
i guess exterior product of G with itself
apparently, since my groups are abelian it's the first derived functor of the schur multiplier.....
 
10:14 PM
which is just $H^2(G,\mathbb{Z})$. what kind of nonsense is going on here
 
10:51 PM
this gamma of yours is divided powers?
oh, nm, I see.
 
11:02 PM
@Jon, Lurie talks about "quadratic functors" on an $\infty$-category in math.harvard.edu/~lurie/287xnotes/Lecture4.pdf
Maybe that is helpful
 

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