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9:31 AM
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A: If I use Mountain Avalanche, do I take Attacks of Opportunity from every enemy I approach to trample?

Hey I Can ChanA creature's movement provokes attacks of opportunity normally during mountain avalanche To this reader it seems that a martial adept that initiates the 5th-level Stone Dragon maneuver mountain avalanche [strike] (Tome of Battle 84) provokes attacks of opportunity normally due to her movement. ...

 
Hey I Can Chan
Hey I Can Chan
@András It's okay! This answer addresses both those issues.
@András Rewrote this. I hope it provides you the answers you need.
@András It's pretty obscure, buried at the end of the description of attacks of opportunity, but without it—especially for melee warriors—games are freakin' brutal. I'm glad to've helped.
 
annoying imp
annoying imp
Wow, this seem to assume regular tramples by monsters provoke two attacks of opportunity each? Am I correct?
 
Hey I Can Chan
Hey I Can Chan
@annoyingimp Their movement only provokes once. Nothing about the trample special ability provokes.
 
annoying imp
annoying imp
"Trampled opponents can attempt attacks of opportunity, but these take a -4 penalty. If they do not make attacks of opportunity, trampled opponents can attempt Reflex saves to take half damage."
 
Hey I Can Chan
Hey I Can Chan
@annoyingimp Aha. Yes. I was thinking the above. Yes, trampling is possibly dangerous. The price a monster pays for automatic damage.
 
annoying imp
annoying imp
9:31 AM
Well, while I don't think it works like this, trample unfortunately lack examples, so I guess it may be interpreted your way. Was just curious, thanks.
 
Hey I Can Chan
Hey I Can Chan
@annoyingimp I am interested in hearing how you do think it works. Consider posting your own answer or answering yourself a question you pose.
@annoyingimp I've been processing this for a couple of hours, and I think it may be good to keep in mind that a potential trample victim makes a choice between the Ref save for half damage and the attack of opportunity and that many—most, probably, and, relatively speaking, almost all—folks will be unable to make that second attack of opportunity.
 
annoying imp
annoying imp
@heyicanchan I can't realy pose an answer to András question. To me maneuver seems contradictory or ill defined so I can't say does it work that way or another. General application is clear, but details are escaping me.
if for regular Trample, let me explain how do I think it works
Whole trample attempt is a single full-round action, per "As a full-round action, a creature with this special attack can move up to twice its speed and literally run over any opponents[...]", so it is probably a single opportunity for purposes of AoOs. But different creatures make that single AoO differently. Some quotes:

"Trampled opponents can attempt attacks of opportunity, but these take a -4 penalty. If they do not make attacks of opportunity, trampled opponents can attempt Reflex saves to take half damage."
* - Finally subjects of trample attack may also make an AoO at -4, or instead may try to avoid the damage partially. <- woul be more precise I guess
@heyicanchan Hope it was helpful
 
 
2 hours later…
Hey I Can Chan
Hey I Can Chan
11:54 AM
@annoyingimp I'm not sure I understand. So what does happen in that reading when a trampling gorgon approaches then enters the square of a Medium dude with Combat Reflexes, a reach weapon, and armor spikes?
Because it's a Monster Manual ability, I can imagine Skip Williams thinking that movement was like AD&D 2e and imagining it being plotted then taken, making it so only those dudes who were actually trampled get attacks of opportunity, but that would allow a creature to declare a trample and not enter any squares to move safely with impunity, and that seems odd.
 
 
6 hours later…
annoying imp
annoying imp
5:34 PM
@HeyICanChan Your hypothetical dude may make a single AoO with -4. With either weapon.
You can't declare but not execute something. It's not a computer game where bugs can be exploited, there is a DM who would say that you made your turn wrong.
In this case it is somewhat similar to Spring Attack - you declare whom you are going to affect before you realy affect them
At least I see no problem ruling it like this
 
Hey I Can Chan
Hey I Can Chan
6:09 PM
@annoyingimp So that'd make the trample ability mandate a declare phase during which the creature plots its movement and its movement must take it through at least one square occupied by a creature? And none of its movement during that trample provokes attacks of opportunity from anyone—only the trample victims have that option? Is that an accurate summary?
(Note that I am comfortable with declared movement—I think it's the only way that mounted combat can actually work, for instance—, but the game doesn't normally have that, and adding it always feels like a step backward to AD&D 2e's "declare-then-do" combat system instead of Third's more elegant "just do" system.)
 
 
3 hours later…
annoying imp
annoying imp
8:48 PM
@HeyICanChan Not from anyone. It would provoke from everyone and that single creature (whose space was crossed) may make it's AoO at -4 penalty. And, depending on it's size (medium or less) it may be subject to trample damage and should think twise if it wants to make that AoO.
"- Mere bystanders make attacks of opportunity normally if trampling creature passes through their reach, like with any other movement."
trampling here means trampling someone else
if it doesn't step into your space you treat it's movement as usual double move
it doesn't make trample from your perspective
 
 
2 hours later…
Hey I Can Chan
Hey I Can Chan
11:21 PM
@annoyingimp I struggle with that reading precisely because it forces the trampling creature to commit to its movement beforehand and allows it no adjustments due to changed battlefield conditions. With that reading, for example, a creature can't opt to trample another creature after learning that its first target chose to make the save.
That seems to fly in the face of everything but the feat Spring Attack, and even that feat only mandates that the attacker reaches the target rather than mandating the route the attacker takes!
(I think players in my campaign would balk were I to try to run trample that way, especially if their PCs had Combat Reflexes and were armed both with reach weapons and normal weapons!)
 

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