last day (17 days later) » 

10:11 AM
-3
A: EU citizen's family member Schengen visa

ostergaardUnfortunately your spouse, being resident in Pakistan, is not exercising their right of free movement and so you will not be able to travel with them (without applying for a regular visa). Your spouse would need to be living in an EU/EEA country other than the UK in order to be exercising their r...

 
The spouse would also be exercising freedom-of-movement rights by going on a holiday in any EU country other than that of his nationality -- for example, the trip a visa is being sought for!
 
Not as far as I understand it. The right of free movement comes from exercising treaty rights... Exercising treaty rights requires that you are involved in that country, for example by working or studying there.
 
The treaties also gives you the right to make short visits, if you are economical;y self-sufficient during your visit.
 
Yes but only if you are exercising those rights.
 
If the OP's spouse plans to go on a short visit to the Netherlands, then the very visit he plans is exercising his freedom-of-movement rights. One of the rights he gets is to bring his family with him on that visit.
 
10:11 AM
@HenningMakholm -- perhaps you should make a second answer explaining this?
 
@HenningMakholm - as I understand it you only have the freedom of movement IF you exercise treaty rights. That's why as an EU citizen you only have the right to bring your non-EU spouse into the EU IF you live in a country different to your own (you are not exercising treaty rights living in your own country). You exercise treaty right by living and contributing to another EU country and doing so gives you freedom of movement.
 
@ostergaard: Freedom of movement IS the treaty right in question. As an citizen of one EU country, traveling to a different EU country is a way to exercise the treaty right called "freedom of movement". When you do so you also have the right to have your spouse and other dependent family accompany you. This is a part of the treaty right. Living in the other country is also exercising the right, but that doesn't mean that going there without living there is not also exercising you freedom of movement. It's freedom of movement that allows you to go there no matter how long or short you stay.
It simply doe not make sense to claim that you only have freedom of movement after you have actually moved across the border. If that were true nobody would ever be allowed to move for the first time. It is something you have as part of your citizenship and you use it by crossing the border.
 
@HenningMakholm as an EU citizen you can stay as a tourist in any EU country for up to 3 months but that's not 'freedom of movement', which purpose is to enable a mobile workforce not tourists. Once you start seeking work somewhere, or in other ways start making a life there, you are exercising treaty rights and freedom of movement. Some details here for example: opensocietyfoundations.org/explainers/what-eu-freedom-moveme‌​nt. Also we use freedom of movement as shorthand but really it refers to free movement of goods, services, labour and capital. You are only labour if you work.
 
@ostergaard:On which authority do you claim that freedom of movement does not allow me to go to another EU country for up to 3 months? The right to go to another EU country is what freedom of movement means. Without freedom of movement I would not have that right.
You're describing a different consequence of freedom of movement, but that does not mean that the basic right to move oneself's body across the border, for a long or short stay, does not exists, or is not a part of what freedom of movement allows you to do.,
 
@HenningMakholm you don't get that right from the any of the four freedoms.
 
10:11 AM
@ostergaard: yes, there is free movement for workers, but this is PART OF the more encompassing (and later introduced) freedom of movement for persons, which is not restricted to workers. No matter which part of the freedom of movement rules you're exercising, you have the right to bring your spouse and dependent family members with you. This is not restricted to the "freedom of movement for workers" SUBSET of the overall freedom of movement rules.
You will find the directive at eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A32004L00‌​38 That is where you right to travel to a different EU country comes from, and that is where your right to bring family with you on that travel comes from. This directive gives additional right to take up residence to workers (and several other groups), but apart from those additions, the rights it gives (such as the right to enter a Member State -- article 5) are not restricted to workers.
 
Article 3 in that link states: "This Directive shall apply to all Union citizens who move to or reside in a Member State other than that of which they are a national, and to their family members as defined in point 2 of Article 2 who accompany or join them." Hence, you must change your residence for the Directive to apply.
If that doesn't convince you I am right nothing will so let's agree to differ. :) Good night and good luck!
 
Look at "move to" in the other languages. It doesn't necessarily mean "establish domicile in." I would also note that the UK granted my mother in law an EEA family permit for a ten-day visit even though my wife and I have never lived in any EU country other than out own. So at least one (soon-to-be-former) EU country agrees with Henning Makholm.
 
Interesting that you are both happy to argue with me and vote against my answer but neither of you care to explain why the Dutch published guidance is wrong in an answer of your own. Just saying. :)
 
 
4 hours later…
2:03 PM
@phoog @HenningMakholm care to check out the additional evidence I added to my answer. It is straight from the European Commission and clearly supports what I said. Would be very nice if you would reconsider your votes, please.
 
 
1 hour later…
3:19 PM
@phoog have been looking into the EEA Family Permit your mother in law was granted... It occurred to me that it cannot be due to any inherent rights as it is a permit - I learnt that from you! "...her right to travel under the freedom of movement directive is independent of any document. This is why the document is called a residence card instead of a residence permit..." Hence the fact that the UK issue these permits has nothing to do with this discussion around rights - agreed?
 
@ostergaard I plan to do that, but I'm too busy to do it this weekend.
 
@ostergaard the UK has a history of not-quite-compliance with the directive.
 
True but that serves equally for and against your argument. ;)
 
They used to put "family member of an EEA national" on their residence cards, instead of "...of an EU citizen." They changed that, even though the former text is more precise.
@ostergaard perhaps. France also grants my mother free movement rights, though informally.
 
3:26 PM
Where do you live? If you don't mind me asking. I am Danish but live in the UK with my Russian wife.
 
 
3 hours later…
6:20 PM
More evidence courtesy of europa.eu (https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/entry-exit/non-eu-family/index_en.htm):"Your non-EU spouse, (grand) children or (grand) parents do not need to get a visa from the country they are travelling to if:

They have a residence card as an EU family member, issued under EU rules by any EU country (except the country you are a national of), and they are travelling together with you or travelling to join you in another EU country."
 

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