@Allure "larger buffer": The US is much larger, so any major shifts will become noticeable with considerably longer delay than in the comparatively small UK. To elaborate: I need to stay vague: It is now much harder to get top-tier people to apply to available positions; now people tend to leave on "minor triggers" which they didn't do before. The lure of foreign positions is now far stronger, whereas in the past, people who left a place in the UK used to stay in the UK.
> because the UK as a whole decided that science isn't worth it, in which case it would be democracy in action and one can't really complain.
One can (and does) complain about democracy in action
Just because it is democratic, doesn't mean it is correct
nor that you shouldn't complain about it
Infact I would argue that that is one of the strongest advantages of most modern democracies (which generally come with a freedom of speech package deal).
Many democratic countries change government ever decade or so. And a big reason for that change is people complaining, and/or realizing their selection at the last election was wrong. (The other reason is of course that things have changed; it was right then but would be wrong now. But even that case is often illuminated by complaints.)
@Thomas why do you think UK (British) people are not capable of doing good research? by removing EU ppl or international scientist coming to work there, they are inhibiting comeptition.
@JanLucas top possitions? where they are? US, UK, Germany?
@Allure but why those experts dont live in UK? As I remember Frasser left UK bcs he felt not well enough appreciated ( I attended his talk), He is proud of Obama and US citizenship. He even go far enough to criticize the current institution in US that they wanted to fire him, until they found out that he got a nobel prize so everything changed. Ppl started to behave differently to him.
@SSimon What makes you say they don't live in the UK? There're plenty of UK experts who said Brexit was going to be self-injurious, e.g. nytimes.com/2016/06/27/opinion/…
@LyndonWhite I meant that one can complain about what is done, not so much that it was done.
Regarding self-injury: the pound lost approximately 15% of its value compared to key other currencies (euro, US dollar) in the weeks before and after brexit. GBP growth is almost half the pre-Brexit referendum one. Inflation went from zero (that economist may argue is too low) to 3% (that all common people agree it's too high). Need else?
@SSimon One thing that makes good research good is communication and exchange of ideas. Which is why mobility is so strongly encouraged. Science as it is has somewhat of a problem of small, isolated communities. People reinventing the wheel because of lack of between-field communication. By removing EU people and international people, they are removing the possibility to benefit from a different point of view and way of thinking.
@penelope correct, I agree, except that UK science is isolationist, andnot applicable to wide word. Science showed it that graduates from UK, when return in asia, malperform.
@Allure He had a lecture on some conference in asia that I attended, he was quite negative toward acdemia in UK
@SSimon Of course there are good scientists in the UK, but the bigger the talent pool you have to recruit from, the more outstanding scientists you can get. Top universities will recruit from around the world. Imagine if UK football clubs could no longer get players from outside the UK. Sure there are good UK footballers, but those teams would be at a talent disadvantage compared to multinational teams. The same applies to universities.
@Thomas yes, but UK failed in world cup :( and England football teams are profit driven, which is case also with universities, bcs of torries, unfortunately, but keeping funding for britih students, you enrich your own country. no more cheap or slave labor in labs.
@SSimon @SSimon You are sounding increasingly like a troll. I'm sure you are intelligent enough to realize that this is not about "slave labor in labs". If you look at the backgrounds of Professors at Oxbridge (or at Harvard, Stanford, etc.), you will see that these universities recruit the very very best scientists from around the world. These are not slaves.
as far as I know, UK is in top of bulling in academia and bad condition for reaserchers, I read a piece from Russel group PI, and it was shoking, I would say anything possitive for UK academia
Discussion on question by Allure: Why…
Discussion on question by Allure: Why…