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1:28 AM
We cannot do anything but add cores as we have hit the "powerwall". If you want to double the speed, you need to double the power, if you have silicon. I can take the same masks and put it down on sapphire that will increase the speed by 2x, decrease the power by 2x, and increase the cost by 10x. This is why you just throw custom instructions (silicon) at everything. Also, there are user programmable FPGAs that act as coprocessors. Virtex from Xilinx.
 
Sure but they're not integrated into the CPU.
They can't touch any microarchitectural behavior.
 
They were in the PowerPC days as I used to use them to make custom instructions. Of course, you could just take a processor and make a "bus plugin" or sorts.
Xilinx has changed a lot since they started those 20 years ago. My MS work was funded by Xilinx and I made a hazard free CPU that was basically a coprocessor for the PowerPC.
I will say my information is outdated at this point.
 
Yeah I know some older processors could get custom instructions.
That's something I'd love to see in an x86 core.
 
x86 are a RISC core with a CISC wrapper. They just suck across the board. Everything about them is terrible form the semiconductor perspective. :(
SPARC v7 had coprocessor instructions that anyone could use. No one made coprocessors at the time. This is why LEON is very popular in the dev world as if you need a coprocessor, you can just target a SPARCv7.
 
Well to be fair, even RISC processors are not true RISC anymore.
 
1:35 AM
Oops, LEON moved to v8... good bye coprocessor instructions. That is true, but RISC is still much much simpler. RISC-V is a very good processor.
(from an architectural standpoint)
 
What we really need is more open CPU design.
Even early x86 systems are complex as hell cuz compatibility (A20 gate, anyone?).
 
It's not IP encumbered.
The more open designs, the more options exist and the more information is exchanged.
 
Yeah but all the R&D is going behind closed doors.
I suppose I meant a more open design process.
All that stuff labeled "Intel Top Secret"...
 
Andy Grove: "be paranoid"
Man I miss him.
BTW, and interesting quote is here: electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/293830/… The culmination of a bunch of different CPUs resulted in how the RISC-V core handled branches.
 
It's a shame the direction Intel went.
 
1:42 AM
Like any other company, once you get big you stop understanding your product. It's "units" now and not specific products. They've been buying up anyone that has an value now that silicon has screeched to a halt. Andy was a chemist, and could run a company. The more recent CEOs have been b-school people.
 
yup
And there's a huge disconnect between developers and management.
In fact most people who work there have a love-hate relationship.
There needs to be a massive document leak from Intel.
All at once, not just people trading a few secret docs here and there.
 
 
11 hours later…
12:30 PM
0
Q: Would this mode of operation be safer?

Balazs F I guess this is not vulnerable to: padding oracle attack because it is basically counter mode stream cipher attack, because it isn't just simply XOR-d malleability, because XOR-ing something on the ciphertext changes the entire plaintext A significant disadvantage is that it needs a new key...

guh
 
plaintext used as a key?
 
queue related key attacks.
Uh, you would not be able to reverse that :)
queue impossible mode :)
No malleability without an authentication tag. Now that would be something.
(well, that would be possible, I guess, but no plaintext expansion will be trickier)
Using a different key for a block cipher is usually quite expensive too.
 
@forest there are already chips out there that do that (eg Xilinx Zynqs and I think some server Xeons as well)
 
Oh, he caught the key expansion part.
@forest @SEJPM @bdegnan The problem I see with modifiable CPU architectures is that now the OS configures the CPU. I'm not sure if you want to change the CPU configuration per application. And you need the specialization per application more than for the OS, I presume.
 
(I just realized that the Zynq and the Intel Xeons with FPGAs probably don't quite offer the level of customization @forest wants)
 
12:44 PM
So although it adds some configurability, the OS is now the one that decides what to use the CPU for. And how will you handle this in VM's and such?
@kelalaka Darn, I want to answer the question, but it still is residing on security, and I don't want to intrude.
 
@MaartenBodewes But SEJPM said everything except the last question is fully on-topic here.
 
Anonymous
Hmm.
 
And user edited the question Yuu can give a try?
 
Anonymous
Can anyone identify this? :O
 
Anonymous
..... ..... ..... .!?!! .?... ..... ..... ...?. ?!.?. ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..!.? ..... ..... .!?!! .?... ..... ..?.? !.?.. ..... ..... ....! ..... ..... .!.?. ..... .!?!! .?!!! !!!?. ?!.?! !!!!! !...! ..... ..... .!.!! !!!!! !!!!! .?!!! !!!!! !!!!! !!!!! !!!!! .?... ....! ?!!.? .!.? !!!.! !!!!! !!!!! !!!!! !.... ..... ..... ..... !.!.? ..... ..... .!?!! .?!!! !!!!! !!?.? !.?!! !.?.. ..... ....! ?!!.? ..... ..... ?.?!. ?.... ..... ..... ..!.. .....
 
Anonymous
12:52 PM
There is more but I cannot put it in the message...
 
Anonymous
Looks like complete nonsense...
 
@kelalaka Huh, I was talking about this question? Did SEJPM say anything about it on security?
 
@MaartenBodewes not about it about this
 
@kelalaka Although I agree with SEJPM, I'd rather see that kind of question on superuser. Currently we have to rely on the description of the user of LUKS to say he's right or wrong. I'm not sure if there are any LUKS specialists; I'm definitely not going to answer that one.
 
Anonymous
1:38 PM
Nevermind.
 
Anonymous
It was Ook I'm just blind.
 
Someone hacked winter bash? No silver badge but silver.
@J.J I'm still blind :)
 
@kelalaka I expected some kind of language: esolangs.org/wiki/ook!
 
1:53 PM
@MaartenBodewes The esoteric languages, still the white space is best.
compared to Perl, of course : 99-bottles-of-beer.net/language-perl-658.html
 
2:30 PM
The practical problems with reconfigurable hardware on the CPU would be handing what happens when you have an interrupt or a trap. This is most likely why you would just make a dedicated processor with custom instructions. You could always do the "old style" of throwing a trap and passing it off to the bus. I've been trying to come up with a good application for this. The only thing I have is homomorphic encryption or actually having circuits for Yao's circuits.
I have full masks for both sync and async FPGAs on GF14nm. I guess I could write a grant.
 
2:45 PM
That's cool enough, although I do think that FPGA's could also be used for things like block ciphers. That would make them less specific for e.g. AES. How fast can you reconfigure them? Could you configure them using SRAM or similarly fast and non-persistent?
Seems like a good subject for a grant.
 
3:36 PM
@kelalaka I think I prefer the clarity of Ook! compared to Perl.
@kelalaka And, did I miss any vulnerability of the "more secure mode"?
0
A: Would this mode of operation be safer?

Maarten BodewesNo the mode would not be more secure (than what?). I guess this is not vulnerable to: padding oracle attack because it is basically counter mode That's not correct. As the input of a block cipher is always a full block, you would need to pad the plaintext. Therefore you would lik...

 
Let me check.
@MaartenBodewes I don't think we need any additional disadvantages
I prefer I don't think we need more disadvantages
nailed..
 
4:28 PM
 
I'll send you 4 colors of Skein :)
Very X-massy, well done.
 
I'm not sure the sizes, it was first try.
Thanks,
 
4:58 PM
I need to just sit down with some cryptographers and sort out some cool hardware/crypto collaboration. There's some neat problems, but I just don't know where they are. Mostly, I know nothing about cryptography, and I'm mostly interested in just not making bad semiconductor implementations.
 
If you go down that way, yes, you should probably link up with cryptographers, preferably at university level. There are some universities that are more technical and do crypto.
I've had some of my software reviewed by multiple parties. The universities were generally better than the test labs, although I do have to give some credit to Riscure at the time.
 
@MaartenBodewes could you provide the answer for ECDSA?
 
I'm not sure I'm wearing this hat right :) I am sure that the miniature icon has some spacing issues w.r.t. the hat.
@kelalaka Link?
 
I have to float bottom up in a swimming pool soon. If you don't want to answer we can wait for a newbie to score some points.
 
5:06 PM
ok.
 
Do you know I can do the kayak roll without paddle?
Have to keep practicing that.
 
have fun
 
5:24 PM
Die kon ik nog net typen :)
That one I was yet able to type up, now I've got to move, roads are frozen and I go by bike...
 
 
1 hour later…
6:25 PM
@MaartenBodewes The cryptographers at my university are just weird. They don't have the same drive for real problems. <shrug>
 
They might just disagree what real problems are.
 
6:58 PM
@bdegnan what are the real problems for you?
 
7:11 PM
Most of the problems that I see on the semiconductor side are a function of minimizing 1) area, and 2) power. For instance, I would like to see some hash function that uses shared hardware with AES. I'm less interested in making new algorithms than making implementations that minimize current circuits.
 
And you are surprised that cryptographers don't care about that? :D
 
They do. There are new lightweight crypto algorithms being proposed all the time. (With hardware implementation in mind.)
 
It very much depends on the area a cryptographer works in. People in theory certainly don't care about the concrete efficiency of hardware implementations of other people's algorithms.
 
I was funded by the IC to work on Simon/Speck. There's definitely interest in lightweight ciphers.
 
7:26 PM
Academicians are no longer free. You have to find funds and research on this area.
 
7:36 PM
I don't know if there is anything cryptographers can do with other people's algorithms. If you propose a change then you have a new algorithm. Creating the most efficient least cost hardware implementation of an attack on a cipher wouldn't be something they would do either. We want are stuff to be definitely secure now and in the future, so just deliberately over estimate the power of the adversary and you have a bit extra of a security margin.
 
@kelalaka you clearly overestimate how specific most grants in the area are. Or you underestimate people's skill in convincingly arguing that largely unrelated papers clearly fall within some arbitrary project.
Most people learn that skill already during their PhD.
 
7:56 PM
@Maeher Can you find grant for your ideas? The skill of the people, I can agree but does this fall into academic honesty?
 

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