« first day (715 days earlier)      last day (184 days later) » 
04:00 - 17:0017:00 - 00:00

04:56
Note to self: The only fair way to measure someone's competence in a second language is to compare their competence in a second language with their competence in their own first language, and we should compare only theirs and theirs alone, not with someone else's.
 
1 hour later…
05:59
@DamkerngT. That's a never ending recursive measurement!
C(2nd) = DamkerngT_C( C(1st), C(2nd) )
@CoolHandLouis Indeed! Hello @CoolHandLouis!
It's nice to see you in the chat room. :-)
Yah you too!
"It's a nice place to be."
Nice!
Even after a year on ELL, I still feel like there is much to learn in English. :-)
06:05
Me too! I doubt I'll ever become fluent in English.
I make so many mistakes!
@CoolHandLouis Hehe! Isn't that ironic?
I remember you mentioned that you're a native speaker.
lol
0
A: "In the 1960s" or "of the 1960s"

Maulik VI beg to differ with that native speaker! That's because movements happen in the years specified. The movements are general and they may happen in any year depending upon the outrage of public or whatsoever. On the other hand, when we are talking about a title, of the year is common - Say The per...

> Worth to note that for such attributive usage, the year can follow the preposition 'in'.
In (19)70s, Bollywood witnessed its best music
In other words, you may opt for no article when you use the year to express it adjectivally.
Um... was he trying to suggest that the (19)70s in In (19)70s is an adjective?
06:20
I think he's saying it's an adjective in "(19)70s music"
Dunno. It just sounds wrong to me.
Oh, yesterday I learned that it's unwise to say "inner lane" or "outer lane" when we want to tell the driver to change lane.
I think I said "Take the outside lane" in Thai, and what I got was changing to the "inside lane".
06:56
How does one create a snip of a question, answer, or comment, like you just did?
...in chat...
@CoolHandLouis To paste a question (or an answer) as a one-box (they call it so), you can simply paste the link of that question (or answer), e.g., I pasted this: http://ell.stackexchange.com/a/46196/3281
To write a block quote, simply add > in front of your text.
> Hello, world!
> Hello, world!
 
2 hours later…
08:52
(a link by TRomano regarding "the more, the merrier")
09:04
I deleted a comment of mine by accident. Is there a way to reinstate it?
09:25
0
A: "In the 1960s" or "of the 1960s"

Maulik VI beg to differ with that native speaker! That's because movements happen in the years specified. The movements are general and they may happen in any year depending upon the outrage of public or whatsoever. On the other hand, when we are talking about a title, of the year is common - Say The per...

"Corrected" after my comments...
@CoolHandLouis I guess you'd have to retype it all over again!
@CoolHandLouis Hooray! Our message gets through!
I think this is at least the fourth time I've seen a similar question on ELL/ELU.
1
Q: Don't drink from this bottle

RuchirMLooking at the question "How do I instruct my daughter to drink water from a bottle from 'up'!", I suddenly struck a question. If that girl has drunk water by touching her lips and then if any other person comes to drink that water, what should I say? Don't drink, it is 'spoiled' water, or '...

Hello, @dgn! Welcome to the chat room.
09:48
Hi pal @DamkerngT.
@skullpatrol Hi!
Have you seen this?
10:02
No. Thanks for the sharing!
 
2 hours later…
11:49
@CopperKettle They classify that the as adverb in dictionary!? That's really interesting.
:)
I thought it is an article
When it derives from Old English þȳ, it is an adverb
Good day, Damkerng, @Ilan!
hi
preved
It has two distinct etymologies
@Ilan Привет!
Hi! I still conceptualize it as article anyway. (I think partly because English seems to allow us to think of anything as a noun.)
We have the rich, the poor, so why not the more? :-)
11:57
I kept silence since yesterday
just because of very advanced topics here :)
@Ilan You can speak all you like. :-)
@DamkerngT. þȳ meant "by that", as if "I killed him þȳ hands, my hands" (with the help of these hands, my hands)
by the way "I have kept silence since yesterday" or " I kept silence since yesterday"???
@CopperKettle Interesting!
SINCE + Yesterday :0
11:59
@Ilan "have kept".
@Ilan I have kept
oh, thanks!
This construction is not limited to Germanic languages, either. Russian has "чем... тем...". French has "plus... plus...".
9
A: What are sentences like "the longer X, the more Y" called and can they be used in formal written English?

RegDwigнtI don't know if there's a name for such sentences themselves, but they are surely appropriate in formal English: Bible search results for "the more". Here are only some of the various possible syntactical structures: But the more they were oppressed, the more they multiplied and spread;...

John: It was me who extinguished this fire. The rain has nothing to do with this.
Paul: I doubt this.
John: Yes! I extinguished it þȳ blacke hose! (with that black hose; points at the hose)
"I doubt this þȳ more!" - Я тем более сомневаюсь в этом!
nods -- I haven't felt the difference because Thai doesn't have anything like articles anyway. (These thes in The more the merrier is translated into Thai as ยิ่ง (approx. "extremely" or "most".))
@DamkerngT. Doesn't Thai have cases?
12:02
Nope.
Then it would be tough to understand. (0:
Probably. But as far as I can tell, English articles seem to be rather difficult for everyone.
Cases allow you to compress a prepositional phrase like "by that gun" into "þȳ gun".
I guess that speakers of Indo-European languages would have an easier time, though.
Yes, the more cases one's language has, the better he will understand
Good evening, @snailboat! How is your head?
12:04
BRB (going to warm something in microwave)
CYA!
I also have got to venture out.
Laters all!
See you later!
(waiting for my microwave...)
hm
how can I use present perfect for yesterday?
because of SINCE?
I have kept silence since yesterday
but I keep silence for two days?
@Ilan That's one of the reasons.
and "for"
"for two days"
which time to use?
12:10
@Ilan "I've kept silence for two days."
the same?!?
hhh
But "I didn't say anything two days ago."
(In my time zone, two days ago would be Wednesday.)
:
0
learning never stops
Here is a quick tip (it's not gonna exhaust all the possible cases for the simple past and the present perfect; it's just something I think a lot of learners will get confused when they hesitate to choose between the two tenses): the simple past is for an event in the past, as in when you're thinking of a point in time in the past
The present perfect is more appropriate for something that started happening in the past and has continued up to the present (at the time you speak).
/10 mins out/
12:16
> My teacher gave me this book yesterday.
> I've had the book with me since yesterday.
Anonymous
12:28
@DamkerngT. Silent
I'll do exercises on line
Anonymous
@CopperKettle I'm fine, don't worry about me :-)
@snailboat Oh, yes!
Thanks!
@snailboat I'm glad to hear that.
Anonymous
@DamkerngT. Hee
Anonymous
12:34
Of course, -kin isn't really productive, and in fact, it was never terribly productive in English
Anonymous
But it's a fun suffix!
It kinda sounds nice, too!
@snailboat Eh? It's decreasing!
Anonymous
Where has all the definiteness gone!
12:47
Let's keep them well!
Anonymous
13:02
0
Q: "How ...?" vs. "What ... like?"

CheiloprocliticIn the Longman Dictionary of Common Errors you read "When you ask for or give a discription of someone or something, use what ... like (NOT how): 'What's your new teacher like?' " But I sometimes hear people say things like "How is your new teacher?" as a way of asking someone to describe someone...

Anonymous
Hey, there's a Longman Dictionary of Common Errors!
Anonymous
Who knew?
Anonymous
Wow, the people who pirated it on Archive.org put really ugly watermarks on every page: archive.org/details/LongmanDictionaryOfCommonErrors
Anonymous
Looks like it could be a book worth getting
Anonymous
At least for an L2 speaker.
Anonymous
13:14
From the bits I looked through, I don't think I'd call everything marked with an X an "error", but often the suggested alternatives sound better / are more idiomatic
Anonymous
But I think keeping that in mind it could be a useful book
That sounds like a good book. Probably they collected examples of L2 speakers' usage and sorted the errors out.
Anonymous
𝕿𝖍𝖊𝖗𝖊 𝖒𝖆𝖞 𝖇𝖊 𝖆𝖊𝖘𝖙𝖍𝖊𝖙𝖎𝖈 𝖎𝖘𝖘𝖚𝖊𝖘, 𝖇𝖚𝖙 𝖚𝖘𝖎𝖓𝖌 𝖆 𝖉𝖎𝖋𝖋𝖊𝖗𝖊𝖓𝖙 𝖘𝖙𝖞𝖑𝖊 𝖔𝖗 𝖋𝖔𝖓𝖙 𝖉𝖔𝖊𝖘 𝖓𝖔𝖙 𝖈𝖍𝖆𝖓𝖌𝖊 𝖙𝖍𝖊 𝖜𝖔𝖗𝖉. 𝖀𝖘𝖚𝖆𝖑𝖑𝖞 𝖞𝖔𝖚 𝖑𝖊𝖆𝖗𝖓 𝖙𝖔 𝖘𝖕𝖊𝖆𝖐 𝖞𝖔𝖚𝖗 𝖓𝖆𝖙𝖎𝖛𝖊 𝖑𝖆𝖓𝖌𝖚𝖆𝖌𝖊 𝖇𝖊𝖋𝖔𝖗𝖊 𝖞𝖔𝖚 𝖑𝖊𝖆𝖗𝖓 𝖙𝖔 𝖜𝖗𝖎𝖙𝖊 𝖎𝖙. — blutorange 58 mins ago
Anonymous
Hee
Anonymous
Silly Unicode.
Anonymous
13:21
𝖞 looks like an n to me
Anonymous
@DamkerngT. The parts I looked at gave me that impression, too
Anonymous
Oh, it says:
Anonymous
> Finally, we must thank the countless foreign students of English who have provided the content of both editions.
Anonymous
And it also says it uses something called the Longman Learners' Corpus
Anonymous
A-ha, it's based on L2 student essays
Anonymous
Well, I probably won't get that book myself
Anonymous
But it looks neat! :-)
> USAGE Do not use cloth or cloths to mean "the things that people wear". Instead use clothes a clothes shop. | The guests all wore casual clothes.
This is good, but doesn't cover when to use cloth and cloths.
Anonymous
13:38
True!
Anonymous
But
Anonymous
Perhaps the rest of the entry does? :-)
Maybe!
Anonymous
The usage note is presumably attached to the entry for cloth in the Longman Active Study Dictionary
Anonymous
Usage notes are usually kind of like footnotes in dictionaries
13:40
Ahh... That's kinda like Macmillan's usage notes, isn't it?!
Anonymous
etc.
nods
(Btw, toilet vs. bathroom is hilarious, imo. :-)
Anonymous
Japanese has borrowed toilet, clipped to toile (トイレ)
Anonymous
13:43
In the meaning 'restroom'
nods
"Where can I find the nearest bathroom?"
"There is a public *onsen* nearby around that corner (pointing)!"
Anonymous
Since most of the so-called "katakana words" are borrowed from English, and since I speak English, it's easy to get used to relating the two, so sometimes it can be disorienting when the two don't match up
Anonymous
Words like penki 'paint', igirisu 'England', enerugii 'energy', and so on (borrowed from Dutch, Portuguese, and German respectively) can be counterintuitive
Anonymous
And formations made in Japan like gō sain (lit. 'go sign', used for green lighting a project or the like) or kanningu peepaa (lit. 'cunning paper' = 'cheat sheet') can be counterintuitive, too
igirisu!
enerugii sounds close to "energy", I'd say.
"cunning paper"! LOL
Anonymous
13:54
Yes, but it sounds more like Energie :-)
Anonymous
English speakers would have an easier time with enajii 'energy'
Would they call that brand "ener-gaizer"? ;-)
Anonymous
Igirisu is said to be from Portuguese inglez or inglês, or possibly Dutch Engelsch
Anonymous
@DamkerngT. No, it's borrowed separately, as from English: enajaizaa
In Thai, English is อังกฤษ, pronounced something like "Ang-krit".
Anonymous
13:58
I don't know Portuguese, so I don't know if inglez / inglês are the same or not
Me either, but both the words sound like Portuguese or somewhere nearby.
Anonymous
Does ฤษ sound like land to Thai speakers?
Anonymous
Well
Anonymous
I should have said that the other way around
Anonymous
Does land sound like อัง to Thai speakers?
14:04
Nope. It's just one word we must have borrowed from some other language. Maybe also Portuguese or a language from somewhere near Portugal.
I think it's a cognate of "ingles" or something alike.
(Thai has no ending "s" sound, so the "s" must be pronounced as "t".)
Hi, @Mohammad!
how do you do
Anonymous
?
can I find a language partner here ?
14:06
I'm afraid I can't do that.
(or be that)
why afraid !?
@snailboat Oh, this one explains the "why"!
??!!
@Mohammad It's just an indirect way to say "no".
aha ok
you can say no directly ...
14:08
I think I could, but it's not my habit. ;-)
Anonymous
"I'm afraid [subordinate clause]" generally doesn't mean someone is actually afraid
Anonymous
It's a polite way to soften a blow
Anonymous
@Mohammad Apparently not
aha , that is good
Anonymous
I don't think that the situation has changed since yesterday
Anonymous
14:10
There are plenty of websites where you can find people though
give me one, I tried to find one but there is no active websites :(
I think italki was mentioned yesterday.
(I've never used it myself, though.)
yes but it is not a good website
Oh, it's not?!
(Sorry, I switched to something else for a bit.)
Anonymous
@DamkerngT. Wiktionary says it's from French anglais: en.wiktionary.org/wiki/…
14:16
@snailboat Ah, you know something about Thai more than I do!
Nice to know that it's from French.
Anonymous
Apparently the etymology was added by this user: th.wikipedia.org/wiki/…
Anonymous
So although they didn't provide a reference, I suppose they might have a good idea :-)
It's funny that he uses the pronoun ฉัน instead of ผม in his About page.
Anonymous
Uh-huh? What does that imply?
ผม signifies that the speaker is male, and that is typical.
ดิฉัน is for female.
ฉัน is somewhat generic.
It could make the reader think either the writer is female or a robot. :D
(Or perhaps a non-native speaker, or a native speaker who talks like a child, or a native speaker who wants to be poetic, and so on.)
Anonymous
14:24
Oh, that's interesting
ฉันเกิดและเติบโตมาในกรุงเทพมหานคร = I was born and raised in Bangkok. So he's definitely a native speaker.
Anonymous
The different ways languages make gender distinctions in pronouns are interesting to me
Still, that isn't something I'm gonna write in my About page, unless I want to be formal, or selfless.
Anonymous
Of course, Japanese has a rather large collection of pronouns, many of which are favored by either males or females, some of which are more neutral
Anonymous
In Mandarin, there's just one third person pronoun for 'he/she/it'
14:25
Ah, what is that?
Anonymous
But due to Western influence, they started writing it with different characters for each one:
(I think I kinda know it, but can't recall it at the moment.)
Anonymous
他 (he) 她 (she) and 它 (it)
Anonymous
@DamkerngT. It's tā
A-ha!
nods -- I can remember it now. Thanks!
Anonymous
14:26
In speech, though, there's no difference
Anonymous
So it's hard to say that it's really 3 different words
I think ta is associated to "they", too. Not sure.
Anonymous
Ah, well,
Anonymous
In Mandarin you have the men associative plural marker
nods -- wo-men is "us", I think.
Anonymous
14:30
Yes!
Anonymous
So you can say ta-men
Oh, so it's ta-men!
Anonymous
That's right
Anonymous
14:55
@DamkerngT. Do you ever deliberately close your eyes and just listen to TV shows, shutting out the visual input?
@snailboat It happens quite often enough.
Anonymous
Shutting out visual input is supposed to make audio input more intense (increases brain activity associated with sounds)
Anonymous
Audio engineers know that closing your eyes can help you make decisions in mixing
Anonymous
I wonder if there's research about doing listening practice with eyes closed
14:58
no doubts
by closing your eyes you free up a lot of channels for information
@snailboat I think we don't need to close our eyes. I mean, in real life people can talk to us from any direction, even behind us.
and above ")
or below.
or from our pocket!
omg
from inside
(excuse me for little trolling)
Anonymous
@DamkerngT. Well
15:02
I think a few years ago, telephones would force learners to cope with listening more than nowadays, the time that people can see the face of his or her interlocutor on phone.
@Ilan Doesn't really sound like trolling to me. :-)
Anonymous
It doesn't matter whether you can see the source of the sound
Anonymous
That's not why you close your eyes
@DamkerngT. I don't really know what trolling is actually. Nor Germans know :)
Anonymous
Well, I shouldn't say it doesn't matter at all
Anonymous
But I mean that there's an effect on brain activity regardless
Anonymous
15:06
I'm trying to see if there's any research related to this and language processing
> "How old are you?"
"Old."
28 Weeks Later
Anonymous
2
Q: Can I omit "that" in the following case?

alexchenco She had eyes so far apart from each other that looking at them made me feel dizzy. Can I omit the that in this case? Why and why not?

Anonymous
Maybe we should have a that-omission tag
@snailboat I bet that if they probe it deep enough, they will find that a lot of learners rely heavily on visual clues.
@snailboat "so ... that" again!
Anonymous
It's a good example. And a good question.
Anonymous
15:09
Hey, nima asked a question about just in case, just like our conversation the other day! :-)
Anonymous
0
Q: just in case VS. should you

nimaI'll be at my uncle's house just in case you need to reach me. I'll be at my uncle's house should you need to reach me. Could you tell me what is the difference between those? enter link description here

Anonymous
I guess we'll see what other people have to say now
I think nima asked that at least the third time.
Anonymous
Ohh!
Anonymous
Is this where our discussion came from in the first place?
15:10
From Macmillan, in case (AmE) 1. if; 2. in order to be prepared for something that may happen; 3. used for explaining why you are doing something. Compared to the same entry, but in BrE: 1. in order to be prepared for something that may happen; 2. used for explaining why you are doing something; 3. [mainly American] if. Isn't that interesting? — Damkerng T. Jan 6 at 13:20
Anonymous
Are there already answers about just?
@snailboat I'm not sure. Probably.
Anonymous
Sad. I probably shouldn't've gotten my hopes up about a question from that user
Anonymous
Hehe
Anonymous
Have you found any good questions lately?
15:14
Um... I was quite busy (still is) with something else. I learned about the most interesting ones from here.
Anonymous
Ahh
(Also posted some of them from the main site here myself.)
Anonymous
I haven't been following the site itself
Anonymous
I've only been posting interesting ones I see pop up in the upper-left corner :-)
15:21
guys, should I always put "," after this "In 2015, blablalbla"
?
a comma
You should. Hmm... wait, you're trying to use BrE. Maybe it's different.
BrE stands for British English?
the question is from resources you recommended
you have recommended?
:(
As far as I can tell, BrE uses much fewer commas than AmE.
15:23
when I'll learn the English times
@Ilan What resource? Could you give me a link?
"In 2012, of the 328 applicants, nationals of Afghanistan formed the highest proportion, 23% (76 individuals), followed by nationals of Vietnam, 15% (50 individuals)"
Anonymous
@Ilan Couldn't hurt.
this is incredible source of graph and trends related language
@Ilan From the same page, "In 2012 there were falls for the EU2 countries of 35% and 17% in approvals for accession worker cards (to 1,717) and for registration certificates (to 20,090), compared with 2011."
15:25
hm
ok, I see
@Ilan I think that one needs commas because of "of the 328 applicants".
"of the 328 applicants" forces to use comma
Exactly!
Anonymous
Lots of commas are optional.
@Ilan However, I think writing a comma there doesn't make your sentence wrong.
Anonymous
15:27
It's a good idea to use optional commas when they make things clearer, and not to use them if they make things confusing
Anonymous
You can see in the British National Corpus that a comma following "In 1990" at the beginning of a sentence is quite common, although they're used less than half the time
Anonymous
I can't think of an example where a comma would make it less clear, although such an example might exist
nice link
Anonymous
If we do the same search with the Corpus of Contemporary America English (COCA), we find that the comma is used more than half the time
Anonymous
15:32
Which bears out Damkerng's idea that commas would be used more often in AmE there than BrE
Anonymous
The difference appears to be significant
Anonymous
728/971 (75.0%) for COCA (AmE), versus 96/259 (37.1%) for BNC (BrE)
Anonymous
In other words, the comma seems to appear twice as often in American English
ok, anyway I will not construct very complex sentences, so commas will be logically placed...
Anonymous
Shorter sentences tend to use fewer optional commas on average.
Anonymous
15:36
There's more need to show structure in longer sentences, and readers dislike a high comma:word ratio
no doubts
I have some issue with one sentence
"It can be clearly seen from the graph that the number of students HAVE/HAS increased in some fields, and HAVE/HAS decreased in others".
the number here is singular or plural?
Anonymous
It's singular. You're talking about the number.
I had a long dispute that "the number" here is plural
:(
Anonymous
If you said "a number of students HAVE showed up", using "a number of" to mean something like "many", then it would take plural agreement
because it is collective
or something
15:47
Ah, yes. That's another fine point of articles in English.
we agreed that better is to write "the numberS of students"
Anonymous
That's not better.
:(
If you have several numbers of students, like the number of students in 2012, the number of students in 2013, etc. then the numbers is possible.
Anonymous
15:49
See any patterns?
no
Anonymous
A number of goes with have.
Anonymous
The number of goes with has.
so, I should use the number of students has decreased
nods
The number of students talks about one number. It's a figure, a number that tells us how many students we have in the event we refer to.
A number of students is just like many students.
Oh, this is quite like a lot of students.
15:53
ironically, I said the same thing to the teacher
Anonymous
@DamkerngT. Yes
but she probably cannot get it
:)
it was 3 years ago
16:19
guys do u know a good audio player for android with bookmarks and notes?
Anonymous
I don't use Android
:)
are u on Windows?
Anonymous
Not at the moment, why?
just curiosity - if you don't use android you probably use ios...
Anonymous
What is the relationship between Windows and iOS?
16:23
ios + os x is a conncetion
Anonymous
Sure
so if you have an ios device probaby you have an os x device
:)
Anonymous
Hmm, that doesn't seem to follow
Anonymous
iOS is considerably more popular than OS X
Anonymous
It is true that I don't run Linux on my phone
16:24
probably
I have asked just for curiousity
:)
Anonymous
I have an iPhone.
I will switch to in the future
Anonymous
There are some people in the English Language & Usage chat who seem to be passionate about iOS versus Android
:)
in all the world they are
sometimes just inside one brain
/come back in 15 min/
04:00 - 17:0017:00 - 00:00

« first day (715 days earlier)      last day (184 days later) »