English Language Learners

Damkerng T.

00:00

►

This song is very nice in a very weird way!

Anonymous

Oh, I have that soundtrack.

Anonymous

Very silly.

Damkerng T.

Yeah! Really silly, but somehow I really like it!

Anonymous

I like lots of silly things. :-)

Anonymous

Speaking of which, my snails are silly.

Damkerng T.

00:09

Oh, it looks like my cat is silly, too!

Anonymous

Yay, I hit the rep cap on Japanese yesterday! :-)

Damkerng T.

Congrats!

Guten tag clap clap!

Anonymous

Somehow I'm more proud of reputations on the Japanese site than on the English ones

Damkerng T.

nods -- I probably felt the same if we had a Thai stack. :D

Anonymous

Although don't get me wrong, I've put time into studying English grammar and linguistics.

Damkerng T.

00:16

nods -- That makes you stand out on ELL. :D

Anonymous

Although it doesn't mean I know all the answers.

Anonymous

Language is hard! Even describing your native language can be quite challenging :-)

Damkerng T.

It sure is!

> Where did we go right?

LOL. (I'm listening to The Producers soundtrack -- Betrayed)

Anonymous

Hahah.

Anonymous

Do you know the overall plot?

Anonymous

00:24

You might consider watching the whole thing.

Damkerng T.

I just watched it on my cable, so I searched for its music on YouTube.

It's really fun!

Anonymous

That's one of the things I have on DVD in English :-)

Damkerng T.

I'd say that they all did a really good job.

Anonymous

My favorite musical is Chess.

Anonymous

Although I've been listening to the Frozen soundtrack a lot lately. ;-)

Damkerng T.

00:26

Ahh... I still have its link somewhere.

Anonymous

►

Damkerng T.

Oh, it's in English!

That ship scene reminds me of a similar scene in Pocahontas I recently watched.

Eh, but this girl's hair is not white!?

Anonymous

They're sisters.

Damkerng T.

Oh!

LOL -- A horse attack!

helix

01:29

1

A: "Generalize on/to/for" in mathematical texts?

Yes, "to" is the correct word here. You are "generalizing the theorem to the larger set". In English we talk about "direct objects" of a verb and "indirect objects". In general the direct object is the thing actually acted on, and the indirect object is a destination of some sort. The exact mean...

I don't agree with this accepted answer, but not enough to downvote it.

I think "for" is correct too.

Thoughts?

Damkerng T.

01:46

I don't know. Perhaps my English is so bad that that to sounds even wrong to my ears in that particular sentence.

It sounds like they were trying to turn a theorem into the set of real numbers.

But I'm a non-native speaker.

However, it'd sound much better if it went something like this:

> The following theorem generalizes Theorem 1 to the case of real numbers:

Anonymous

02:09

@helix I think that 1. if for is also okay, then the answer is still okay and not downvote-worthy; it doesn't say for is wrong. 2. I would accept for but I think perhaps to is slightly more appropriate

Damkerng T.

Ahh... COCA has 0 results for [generalize] near [theorem].

Oh, found 1 result if I increase the range to 9 words.

> The idea of using non-regular state feedbacks in control system design could be traced back to the work of Heymann (1968), which showed that a multi-input controllable linear system can always be brought to a single-input controllable linear system via a non-regular static state feedback, thus enabling an easy proof of the pole assignment theorem for the multi-input case. This idea was generalized to non-linear case in Tsinias and Kalouptsidis (1981,1987).

Anonymous

> We generalize the theorem to a larger class of regularizers and empirical risk terms, and give a self-contained proof utilizing the feature space associated with a support vector kernel.

Anonymous

> In the first part of the present paper, we generalize this theorem to an arbitrary oriented cohomology pretheory (see Theorem 1).

Anonymous

> We generalize this theorem to matrices over any field and provide a short proof.

Damkerng T.

Not from COCA, obviously.

Anonymous

02:19

> Without any difficulties we can generalize our theorem to a system of differential equations…

Anonymous

> In the future, we plan to generalize our Theorem to other lattice structures (e.g. hexagonal) and check if by using such lattices, better performance guarantees could be achieved.

Anonymous

> We generalize his theorem to all cyclic operads, in the process giving a more careful treatment of the construction than in Kontsevich's original papers.

Anonymous

> We will generalize their theorem to arbitrary homology theories.

Anonymous

> In this paper, we generalize Müger's theorem to pivotal fusion categories over an arbitrary commutative ring.

Anonymous

> How can you generalize Fermat's theorem to the case where the modulus is composite?

Damkerng T.

02:20

I got 46 results of "We generalize * theorem to" on Google Books.

Anonymous

Well, you can find more if you leave out we

Damkerng T.

8 results for "We generalize * theorem for".

Anonymous

> In this paper we generalize Poincaré's theorem to left-continuous dynamical systems and hence to hybrid and impulsive dynamical systems.

Damkerng T.

I didn't really look into any results.

Anonymous

> In this paper we introduce the concept of a weakly upper semicontinuous preorder and then we generalize Rader’s theorem to the case of not necessarily total preorders that are weakly upper semicontinuous on a second countable topological space.

Damkerng T.

02:21

Strange...

Anonymous

> We can also generalize Pick's Theorem to certain non-convex polygons.

Damkerng T.

17 results of "We generalize * theorem on".

Anonymous

> It is necessary to generalize Bayes' theorem to the situation of fuzzy a-priori distributions and fuzzy lifetime data.

Anonymous

> We generalize this theorem for multivalued linear operators.

Anonymous

> It is desired to generalize the theorem for infinite groups.

Anonymous

02:22

> They also attempted to generalize the theorem for n > 2; currently an unknown result.

Anonymous

> In this section we generalize Noether's theorem for Markov processes from the case of a finite set of states to a more general measure space.

Damkerng T.

So, what is the usage pattern?

Anonymous

Hmm.

Anonymous

It's easy to find lot of to :-)

Anonymous

More of the for results seem like false positives (for this usage)

Anonymous

02:24

But I think for is okay

Anonymous

I'm just looking through math papers

Anonymous

Let's see

Damkerng T.

I know it should be easy to find lots of to, but to what?

Anonymous

For could introduce a phrase describing what the theorem is for, or it could introduce a phrase indicating what the theorem is generalized for.

Damkerng T.

To anything?

Anonymous

02:25

To generally indicates what the theorem is generalized to.

Damkerng T.

To the generalized version of the theorem.

Anonymous

Well, to the wider problem domain.

Damkerng T.

Or, to the generalized domain of the theorem.

Or, it doesn't matter, it could be to anything.

Anonymous

Like generalizing a theory for volume to work in n-dimensions.

Anonymous

They have a fairly consistent meaning.

Anonymous

02:26

It looks like:

Anonymous

To indicates a wider (more general) problem domain

Anonymous

On indicates the subject of the theorem

Anonymous

For can indicate either one

Damkerng T.

nods

Anonymous

So I think helix is right that for is also possible

Anonymous

02:27

Although I don't consider that a reason to downvote

Damkerng T.

I preferred for from the start.

Anonymous

I still like to

Damkerng T.

But I guessed, as we now know, that to is more common.

Anonymous

I don't know that it's more common

Anonymous

I was using Google, and Google doesn't give you reliable numbers

Damkerng T.

02:28

It just sounded weird to me, that to is used to indicate to another domain.

Anonymous

But then, you used a corpus, right? (Google Books, I mean)

Damkerng T.

Not at first.

It just sounded very weird.

Anonymous

If I were feeling better, I might try to explain the larger semantic class of usage of to to which I feel it belongs

Damkerng T.

Then I checked a bit, but not really looked into it, found to the case of and I thought it made sense.

Anonymous

But for now, I think I will depart instead of setting such a lofty goal :-)

Anonymous

02:30

After all, prepositions are arbitrary beasties.

Damkerng T.

Perhaps because it's about math. :D

Saying generalized X to Y and X and Y are not of the same class sounds weird to me.

helix

http://chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/15893917#15893917
@snailboat I think this is a better answer.

Damkerng T.

+1

helix

@DamkerngT. "To" sounded weird to me too.

Damkerng T.

nods

16 mins ago, by snailboat

> It is necessary to generalize Bayes' theorem to the situation of fuzzy a-priori distributions and fuzzy lifetime data.

This one sounds okay to me.

Anonymous

02:38

Well, someone else has to post it, because I'm going to bed! Have a good night, all!

Damkerng T.

Ahh... Good night!

> It is necessary to generalize Bayes' theorem to fuzzy lifetime data.

This one sounds odd.

But like everything, having enough examples helps.

Then it won't look or sound weird anymore.

hellodear

05:21

@DamkerngT.

Damkerng T.

Yes?

hellodear

0

Q: Is there any windows 8.1 in my system with my ubuntu?

I had successfully installed ubuntu 14.04 with Windows 8.1. But due to some problem, I had to re-install ubuntu. I put ubuntu bootable USB in system and selected "erase ubuntu ans re-install ubuntu". Then my ubuntu problem got solved but now it is not showing windows 8.1 in start-up. I want to ch...

12.04

see this please

Ubuntu is running

Damkerng T.

Oh, my. So your Ubuntu is now working, but Windows 8.1 doesn't work anymore?

hellodear

without any problem

yes

Damkerng T.

Hmm...

You use GRUB, right?

hellodear

05:23

please tell if I have removed windows?

YEs

no

Damkerng T.

Can you see Windows 8.1 in GRUB menu?

hellodear

no

only ubuntu

Damkerng T.

Oh, oh!

hellodear

:-O

Damkerng T.

This doesn't sound good.

hellodear

05:24

what happened

:O

Damkerng T.

I think your Ubuntu took over the master book record.

hellodear

how to correct it

have I removed windows

But the process took too less time

Damkerng T.

You Windows should still be there, but I'm not sure how to get your master boot record back.

@hellodear Perhaps not entirely.

hellodear

can you get anything from lsblk output?

Damkerng T.

I'm not familiar with it. What I usually suggest is to back up the whole first cylinder before trying to install the 2nd OS.

If you don't have important data in that Windows 8.1, probably starting everything all over again is faster.

hellodear

05:28

means?

starting evrything means

Damkerng T.

Work everything from the scratch.

Recover your Windows 8.1, install Ubuntu, etc.

hellodear

what about testdisk?

Damkerng T.

Testdisk can copy raw section, I think.

hellodear

Is it helpful to me?

Damkerng T.

It could, but the last time I did it, I didn't take my note (bad me), so I can't really remember all the details.

What I remember is the MBR (Master Boot Record) is really important.

And installing 2nd OS (which is not a good idea, as I tried to convince you not to do it) could corrupt the MBR.

hellodear

05:33

AU people said me that I have removed my windows

Damkerng T.

That's another way.

hellodear

So, testdisk can woork?

Damkerng T.

But then, why did you bother with dual-boot in the first place?

hellodear

I want windows + ubtuntu

That's it :(

Damkerng T.

You remove Windows, Windows gone. Problem fixed. :D

hellodear

05:34

LOL

can't I get it back from testdisk

Damkerng T.

You might, but it's not something I think I could help you successfully via chat.

GATA

I think the most safe way is VMware.

Damkerng T.

@hellodear What would happen if you reboot into Windows 8?

> A Read Error Occurred, Press Ctrl+Alt+Del to restart

Perhaps?

hellodear

@DamkerngT. I didn't get u

Damkerng T.

Oh, you mean you can't see Windows 8 at all?

I just recall that sometimes installing Ubuntu after Windows can make Windows boot unsuccessfully with that message.

If that's what happened, there is a chance for an easy fix.

hellodear

05:45

There is option for indows in grub menu

Damkerng T.

Oh, then try it!

hellodear

what should I try

Damkerng T.

Eh, if GRUB lists Windows in its menu, why shouldn't you try it?

Just select that menu item, and see if GRUB could bring up Windows.

hellodear

No

There us no windows in

grub menu

Damkerng T.

@hellodear What did you mean when you said "There is option for indows in grub menu"?

hellodear

05:49

sorry I missed "not"

Damkerng T.

Ahh...

hellodear

aahh'

Should I start from scratch

Damkerng T.

Maybe.

But before that you might try this.

Do you have Windows Installation DVD?

hellodear

yes

Damkerng T.

Or, Windows System Recovery disc.

hellodear

05:50

no windows recovery

Damkerng T.

Okay, then try this.

The installation DVD might work.

hellodear

starting from scratch

?

Damkerng T.

I'm not sure if you can boot from Windows Installation DVD and press (maybe) F10 to get to its command prompt.

If you can do that, try running this command from Windows command prompt: bootrec /fixboot

If that doesn't work, then proceed to clean reinstall everything.

Awal Garg

06:09

@DamkerngT. are you alright?

Damkerng T.

Eh? Why do you ask me that?

Awal Garg

what are you posting? all that stuff

Damkerng T.

What's wrong with it?

Awal Garg

nothing wrong

never seen you do that stuff, that too alone!

Damkerng T.

I offered what I could help a bit.

Awal Garg

06:11

to whom?

Damkerng T.

You couldn't see him?

Awal Garg

whom? FE?

he is coming and going... @F.E. what r u doing man?

Damkerng T.

Eh? You couldn't see the other one in the log?

Awal Garg

Is this a hidden camera show?

Damkerng T.

Oh, that one I can tell. F.E. was lurking.

Be careful if you're tasty. :D

GATA

06:13

Once I installed XP on Seven with VMware for my aunt :D she was learning XP While 8 was already realeased

Awal Garg

So you were helping FE install ubuntu?, dt

Damkerng T.

Hehe!

It was hd.

Awal Garg

@GATA hi

GATA

@AwalGarg Hi :)

Awal Garg

whos hd? high definition?

Damkerng T.

06:14

Probably, hd was hd2 earlier.

Awal Garg

@GATA we need to make a short form for your name... GT is ok?

dt, are u talking about the iit guy? whom I pissed off!

GATA

Yes :) What about AG?

Awal Garg

sure, indeed I am AG!

GT, nice avatar. it is an avatar and you are using it as an avatar as well! Great!

GATA

:D I love it

Awal Garg

dt, yeah, u r right. I can see him in the transcript well. nice, u is doing troubleshooting :P

GATA

06:22

One tiny question. Is it wrong to say "This country is the biggest country by land area." I know that the common word is "largest" but can I say "biggest" too?

Damkerng T.

I can't see anything wrong with it.

Perhaps it hints less formality, and it might raise a question: in what way?

GATA

Thanks :) one more question. Can I replace "too" with "as well" in my previous question?

Damkerng T.

as well is fine. It also sounds a bit more formal than too to me.

GATA

By "in what way?" you meant that "big" has broader definition than "large". yes?

Damkerng T.

That's my intuition, but perhaps it's just me.

My default reading would be the size of the country.

GATA

06:35

I think like that too. Large sounds more specific in this context.

Damkerng T.

I think largest could be modified to refer to something other than size too.

GATA

Thank you so much. :)

Damkerng T.

No problem. :D

Awal Garg

Life should be big, not long!

Who cares of privacy here? @DamkerngT. do you?

GATA

I do.

Damkerng T.

06:44

ag, Don't you?

GATA

I think its better to ask : Who doesn't care?

Damkerng T.

Probably it's different in different generations. One of my nieces always tells everyone in the world where she is, by updating her FB status.

She might stop doing that already. I hope she stopped doing it.

Fantasier

It could be a good thing, though, telling people where she is on FB, if the ones who see the statuses are actually her acquaintances.

Awal Garg

If you really do, go here - resetthenet.org and contribute :)

Fantasier

If there's something urgent, or an accident, or anything of that sort, those statuses would help a lot.

Damkerng T.

06:49

@Fantasier That's a good way to make use of it.

Awal Garg

dt, I do too. Thats why I don't use my original name here. I use anagram!

gt, I know its better to ask it that way, I was trying to do it in a way that you say yes...

Fantasier

A privacy project Google participates? That site is making me laugh.

Awal Garg

It is a nice project. And its not by Google. Yeah, its an oxymoron kinda thing Google is participating in it!

By the way, I have a question. Why is "one" pronounced "vun"?

GATA

8

Q: Why is "one" pronounced as "wan", not "oh-ne"?

Why is one pronounced as "wan", not "oh-ne"? Why are the spelling and pronunciation of one so strange? In French, one is written as un, and pronounced as "oe" (with nasal sound). The sound is similar to French. Is this English word affected by French?

pronunciation numbers

Awal Garg

I have a good news!

I am working with a silicon valley based innovator and entrepreneur!

GATA

06:58

congrats :) I thought you are 16.

Damkerng T.

That's good news indeed.

Awal Garg

@GATA I am really 16 :)

Project secret, remember dt? I wasn't really joking!

GATA

Nice :D

Damkerng T.

Congratulations!

Awal Garg

gotta go, bye!

GATA

07:03

@AwalGarg cya

Damkerng T.

See you!

Fantasier

07:36

@DamkerngT. I think I don't totally buy your answer, but yours is the only one that is really an answer in that could vs able to question :)

Others simply kept talking about what the OP already knew.

That said, I don't know what the answer really is, either :P Probably it's because of that finally bit.

Fantasier

07:50

Oh, and I think you mean "they are not (grammatically incorrect)."

Awal Garg

08:07

lurking to see whats happening

nothing

Anonymous

10:39

@GATA People hire kids. I did web dev when I was 16

Anonymous

It's not generally a big deal but occasionally it's funny

Anonymous

One time I was doing an integration with a wine seller, and I was either 18 or 19

Anonymous

And as a "thank you" for putting it together, they sent me a basket of bread and wine :-)

Anonymous

Which is doubly funny because not only was I underage (not legal to drink), I'm a teetotaller :-)

Anonymous

I went wandering from cubicle to cubicle with the wine until I found someone who wanted it

Anonymous

10:41

And one of my coworkers chastised me for walking around work with a bottle of wine

Anonymous

Although I'm not sure what I was supposed to do :-)

GATA

11:21

lol, I remember my first day in a workshop when I was about 18 (I have no idea why I went there). I was asked to return 200 drilled pieces at the end of time but I end up with 10 broken drill bits and about 20 drilled pieces with 10 of them halfway drilled.

It was fun :D

GATA

11:34

However I wont go back there again.

WOW, I missed that part. The legal age for drinking is 21 in USA.

Awal Garg

Hey, please tell me a nice username. A cool, and a bit professional.

I only get troll replies in the larger English room...

@snailboat I am not HIRED

GATA

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

KAJ

Awal Garg

please, I have suffered that a lot in the other English room. Lets be serious...

Anonymous

@GATA Yeah, it is. I don't drink though, so it doesn't affect me

GATA

@AwalGarg ok :)

Awal Garg

11:42

@GATA thnx, any ideas?

GATA

@snailboat I thought its 16 in USA

Anonymous

Ideas about what? Did I miss your question?

Awal Garg

3 mins ago, by Awal Garg

Hey, please tell me a nice username. A cool, and a bit professional.

^ for a new email account...

Anonymous

Oh, I'm sorry, I have no idea.

Awal Garg

@snailboat do you have any idea what those guys do in the other English room?

Anonymous

11:43

No, I'm not in there at the moment

Anonymous

I've visited a few times

Awal Garg

I thought I am really damn good at blowing things on the funny side, well, I am not even a beginner!

Those English guys, they are totally kings at it

GATA

What do you mean by professional?

Awal Garg

@GATA it can be handed over to the silicon valley guy...

Anonymous

My email username is just my first name.

GATA

11:50

Use you own name.

Awal Garg

umm, anything other?

Anonymous

I've never really paid much attention to email addresses while looking through resumes.

GATA

plus the project name you are working on it.

Awal Garg

I would be registering the domain for the project any now... would a [email protected] be good?

Anonymous

Sure. As long as the project exists.

Anonymous

11:52

You don't want to advertise vaporware :-)

GATA

:)

Anonymous

Ideally you should be demonstrating things you've already accomplished, a portfolio of sorts

Awal Garg

^ in a username? how?

Anonymous

Well, you're using project.com to link to something you've accomplished, right?

Awal Garg

no, the project.com is a webservice. It is the project itself :)

Anonymous

11:55

Umm

Awal Garg

Registration will be completed tomorrow

Anonymous

I don't understand the difference between what you said and what I said

Awal Garg

I don't understand what you said, so I said no :P

If it is the same, then YES :)

But, project.com would not have my portfolio. Actually, I am not making any portfolio... lol. This is my first project!

hi @skullpatrol

Anonymous

Not have your portfolio, be your portfolio

Anonymous

People would see your project and think

Anonymous

11:59

"Oh, Awal Garg is a real cool guy! He made Project!"

GATA

Exactly.

skullpatrol

@AwalGarg hi

Anonymous

Your portfolio is the set of work you've done that you can show to prospective employers to convince them that you're capable and so forth

Anonymous

When you don't have much past work experience, you need to be able to demonstrate to people that you know what you're doing

Awal Garg

Think of it this way. I am Larry Page. I am making Google. I haven't done anything before this. Google is my project. It is bieng registered at project.com - Google.com. now?

Anonymous

12:00

Yeah, like that.

Awal Garg

ok... I get it.

So, plain [email protected] <-- nice?

Anonymous

Will you use your un-anagrammed name? :-)

Awal Garg

yep!

but, I think I can consider using the anagrammed version. What do you say?

It doesn't really matters, I guess not atleast until I get 18.

Anonymous

Why not?

Awal Garg

I guess, its not a bad idea to have people use my anagrammed name to reference to me...

Anonymous

12:03

Well, they'll be able to look you up on Google.

Anonymous

google.com/…

Awal Garg

if I do any paper work, I can (will) use my original name...

@snailboat for what?

on the entire internet, they won't find anything related to my original name :)

I don't use my original name on internet

and I don't use the anagrammed version in real world. (But, I guess, I should)

Anonymous

@AwalGarg But you said you were considering using the anagrammed version, which means you'll be linking people to all your online activity under that name

Awal Garg

@snailboat but, I haven't yet! Thats the point why I am consulting you :)

Its like, when I first got on Internet, my first email id (ohh! so exciting it was), i did use my original name

Then, I saw HP2, the Voldemort anagram thingy.

I decided I want one... I made one. I use it now :P

!!afk

Awal Garg

12:34

hi again

Ice Girl

12:58

@AwalGarg hi

Nico

@snailboat Out of curiosity, what is the voting age where you are?

Awal Garg

13:34

@IceGirl hi... you didn't yet answered my question :=]

Transcript for