Maid Café (メイド喫茶)

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Memor-X

05:25

@Gao i think some of the parts got changed in the anime. i seem to recall in the anime it didn't show how the reason Holo got ousted was because of that girl Laurance knew from the village (the one who in the festival was acting in Holo's role)

and i think when they were smuggling gold with Norah's sheep, the book or manga shows that Holo spoke to the Wolf Leader when she draw the pack's attention away

Andrew T.

@Memor-X you did ask :) Does the Spice and Wolf anime follow the same events as the manga

Memor-X

05:42

@AndrewT. i did to lol

6 hours later…

Gao

11:55

lol and you did answer

1 hour later…

SPArcheon

13:24

... so... This caught my eyes at at anime con.

If Nanachi gender -by word of god- is "Nanachi"...

Then why there is a "Nanachi Aqua Floats Girls" figure by Taito?

-_-

Gao

13:46

maybe because gender is one's perception of their own identities, while society has its own perception of Nanachi's gender roles?

SPArcheon

@Gao Seems more like the Yamato circus again.

Yamato identifies as "male" (or to be more precise, they identify as Oden, which... is quite different. Is that gender identity or delusion?) so the Wano ending "onsen" scene puts her in the male area (and Sanji obviously immediately disrespect the decision)

Yet...

she is in the "One Piece Girls" color cover spread

Gao

14:05

not familiar with one piece, what is an oden? this? --> onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/Kozuki_Oden

i guess it's either unintended or the authors are playing with the fans' mind, maybe even mocking the gender concept or other social topics

SPArcheon

Problem is that is not clear if they think they are Oden, they wish they were Oden, they want to follow Oden steps etc etc...

Gao

oh, then what are we even talking about hahaha, yamato is just a girl

SPArcheon

Therefore, you don't know if she behaves like a male because Oden was male or if he consider himself male.

Result: mess, fans constant arguing.

Memor-X

@Gao and that's the problem

> Yamato greatly admires the legendary samurai Kozuki Oden to the point of even proclaiming to carry his identity. Yamato has self-identified as Oden on multiple occasions and has even emulated his gender, proclaiming to be the son of Kaidou due to Oden being a man. Although initially carrying doubts as to how to present as Oden, Yamato has steadily expressed a straightforward attitude regarding this identity as time has gone on, even proclaiming this as such to Oden's son Momonosuke, to the boy's horror.

SPArcheon

@Memor-X Boy?

WHAT BOY?

Momofraud?

Memor-X

14:14

Yamoto's feminine appearance and male presentation may be an indication that they are trans

though the not knowing how to "present as Oden" might be more leaning to Gender Queer at the very least

Gao

to each their own? it reads to me like yamato just wants to emulate every trait of oden, so it's irrelevant what gender she or oden is. if oden were female, yamato would identify as female because she admires oden, not the female gender role.

but there's a mismatch between their sexes, so it's a source of contention and interesting (?) debates

Memor-X

yep. interesting is putting it lightly

SPArcheon

@Gao and that is the issue.

Gao

@SPArcheon so many issues -.-

SPArcheon

They does not identify as a gender they chose. They identify as Oden gender.

And in the meantime Sanji acts around them like every other female.

Gao

14:20

sanji is sanji, he a visual man

SPArcheon

... and you may have noticed that Sanji does not act "Sanji" in regards to Carrot (young) nor Bonnie (reasons, see Egghead arc)

so Sanji has some standards.

Gao

i didn't notice that because i'm not familiar with one piece, having only read the manga up till volume 4

oda draws every one piece woman with big boobs - is that called having (uniform) standards or not?

SPArcheon

@Gao you have your answer on this very site....

Yep, at the start of the manga, the females weren't yet "two circles and one X" to use Oda words....

@Gao and to be more precise, every -not ugly- woman is mostly Nami or Robin

Gao

> I wonder when her growth phase will end.

SPArcheon

... that said, one could argue that Boa IS also Robin.

@Gao Egghead is a "winter" island.

Gao

14:33

@SPArcheon lolollll

Peilonrayz

@SPArcheon IMO the language used around gender, sex and attraction can be fairly confusing in English. Without knowing if Japanese supports clear distinctions between sex, gender expression and gender identity I wouldn't read too much into what is possibly a miscommunication and/or mistranslation.

SPArcheon

@Gao on the "winter" island, they get THESE outfits

(missing ones here)

SPArcheon

14:48

@Peilonrayz In the final scene of Wano, Yamato goes to the man onsen pool. At the same time another character that is more clearly depicted as trans goes to the female bath. This second character even mentions that she is happy to be able to "be herself" despite her fame as the "the most beautiful swordsman in the land of Wano.

So, in Kiku case there is no doubt, all is laid for the reader. Yet with Yamato they are not equally clear.

And given Yamato dress - and more specifically the open sides of the dress, I would say this is done on purpose.

Yamato identity is kept "vague" to be able to sell fanservice more easily, as sad as this may be

Anyway, time to annoy Memnor :P

Peilonrayz

@SPArcheon "man onsen pool" (gender) and "female bath" (sex) are two different types of segregation. I wouldn't read too much into the title "One Piece Girls".

SPArcheon

I suggest you go watch the scene. The character is poorly written in that regard, and Gao caught the point before.

It is not clear if Yamato identifies as male as a rational choice or just because they are obsessed about becoming Oden in every way (and that is on a pathological scale since they claim Momosuke is their son)

Peilonrayz

15:12

@SPArcheon Totally agree. Context from the anime is more important than the title of a poster.

SPArcheon

@Peilonrayz I think you got that wrong. The issue is not the title of the poster. The issue is that the poster comes on top of an already unclear depiction of the character and therefore only doubles down on the confusion.

Peilonrayz

I understand you. I don't think you're trying to understand my point. I'm going to go back to my day.

SPArcheon

15:50

Back to the task at hand...

@Memor-X Narehate Magi Nanachi Magica

Andrew T.

@SPArcheon from what I read in Japanese fandom (not that Fandom Wiki), it's because Yamato is so obsessed with Oden so much that Yamato wants to become him literally, thus living as a man even with female body.

SPArcheon

16:07

@AndrewT. as I was saying before, that is the issue. If Yamato wants to be "male" only to conform to Oden gender, then it is not their choice. Their depiction could use some work.

It is also worth noticing that while I don't want to write an essay when discussing on a chatboard, the "One Piece girls" art spread is not the only confusing material.

the official Vibre Card and Data Book categorize Yamato as "Female" (still with all the concerns about Japanese language in the first place)

and there is an official live action short with a female that gets courage to "live her dream" by reading One Piece and seeing all One Piece females pursuing their dream. Yamato is included there.

I could continue, like pointing out how Yamato was initially introduced as Kaido DAUGHTER only to have him them call them "son" etc etc etc.

Andrew T.

yeah, it's a fair point, Japanese uses 男性 and 女性 for both gender and sex

SPArcheon

16:42

@AndrewT. wish it was so simple.